A Message On Football Manager 2012 Activation

[Kriss]

I don't have the box either but according to Google images, nothing on the front

They put the box art out early to reviewers etc so we can't be sure what is the finished article, I seem to remember Civ V having quite a big steam logo on the front.

[pigfacemonkeyman]

They put the box art out early to reviewers etc so we can't be sure what is the finished article, I seem to remember Civ V having quite a big steam logo on the front.

Was it the "SteamPlay" logo? The box artwork on the SEGA pre-order page is different from those on the other sites.

It dont make any sence to put "steam" in the front cover!

It's a requirement to install/play the game, so it should be in the same place as the others requirements (ram, processor, OS, directx, etc), in the back cover!

I think it should be on the front of the box. People should be made aware of it's importance.

[themadsheep2001]

Was it the "SteamPlay" logo? The box artwork on the SEGA pre-order page is different from those on the other sites.

I think it should be on the front of the box. People should be made aware of it's importance.

It doesnt matter where, as long as its on the box and made as clear as any other minimum requirements

[Mr.Bojangles]

I've got my Civ 5 box in front of me. Nothing on the front at all about Steam or Internet connection. I can't see a Steam logo on the back, and in very small writing it mentions needing a one time activation with Steam in "Other Requirements" Not even in the minimum requirements bit (which it is)

Pretty shoddy by them actually. It doesn't bother me either way, but you'd be pretty peeved if you didn't have an internet connection, or you were one of the anti-Steam crusaders.

[themadsheep2001]

I've got my Civ 5 box in front of me. Nothing on the front at all about Steam or Internet connection. I can't see a Steam logo on the back, and in very small writing it mentions needing a one time activation with Steam in "Other Requirements" Not even in the minimum requirements bit (which it is)

Pretty shoddy by them actually. It doesn't bother me either way, but you'd be pretty peeved if you didn't have an internet connection, or you were one of the anti-Steam crusaders.

That is really shoddy, SI and SEGA should make sure its not the same for FM12

[Guest aaron70]

I don't think you see the bigger picture either.

If 1/4 of the people that pirate the game - if they buy it that's double the sales for SI.

That still leaves 3/4 of that category still pirating the game.

There's people who pre-ordered it in the past, that cancelled their pre-order when the pirated versions became available.

Given the sharp rise in pre-order sales (according to SI and Amazon et al online stores (Steam included)) since it was announced that FM would be available through Steam - it's pretty clear that it's working.

You can choose not to believe what SI let you know. Which they are under no obligation to do or let you know anything. They do so to keep you informed. They have no reason to lie to you. As if it came out they were lying they would very quickly lose a lot of customers.

Like it or not - it's working. Regardless whether you choose to believe that or not.

Do you believe everything you get told by a company trying to justify a decision that they have made that they know may be controversial? You really believe this pirating figures quoted, you know the actual pre-order figures, you know that the game will not be pirated before release or at least the next day....man, I wish you would do something but say "Sega say....." It really does not validate your argument.

[themadsheep2001]

Do you believe everything you get told by a company trying to justify a decision that they have made that they know may be controversial? You really believe this pirating figures quoted, you know the actual pre-order figures, you know that the game will not be pirated before release or at least the next day....man, I wish you would do something but say "Sega say....." It really does not validate your argument.

And yet you offer nothing with that post either, except to start another round of pointless back and forth that has been running for 30+ pages. I know its a terse reply, but the same ground keeps getting covered all the time. What's done is done, for better or for worse, unless there is a stunning and pretty unlikely turnaround

@Bohsjohn, did you manage to find a decent internet place?

[Guest aaron70]

And yet you offer nothing with that post either, except to start another round of pointless back and forth that has been running for 30+ pages

@Bohsjohn, did you manage to find a decnt internet place?

Not really. The main part of what I have been saying is that I have been amazed at the lack of respect given to other gamers and people just following a company line. I have found it incredible the fact that people are willing to support a multi-national company and not fellow games even though the decision to support other gamers WILL NOT affect them. The post i quoted shows once again this strange desire to defend a company who is stopping some unfortunate people from playing a game. FM exists today because of the massive community support it got in it's fledgling years. So don't compare it to other games. CM grew up because of consumers. Now it is just another game owned by a company who only makes a basic attempt at "caring for its consumers" to ensure enough sheep will buy the game.

Basically I am done with this 100% now. I will remove myself from these forums.

[jujigatame]

My biggest problem with Steam is that it has changed the definition of fair use for PC games. It used to be that I could play a game for a while, get tired of it, and give it to a friend or resell it. I would not retain a copy so this was a perfectly legal transaction. Nowadays with Steam, the game is permanently locked to my Steam account upon activation.

It's a bummer to hear that FM12 will follow this trend, but honestly it probably won't influence my purchasing decision very much. If the game is good, I will buy it.

[kambing conge]

this move is useless, ppl will still be able to play 2012 for free and those who purchase it will have more problems to face, we are already frustrated by the bugs for god sake and now you wish to give us more headache

[tigerhgrrrrrr]

All the more reason to put out the word 'steam' on the front cover of the boxed product.To be honest with the customers, and to let them know what you are buying into.

I think the wording is very sly as requiring an internet connection to install the game could mean various things and scenarios.

I think this is deliberate, trying to avoid hundreds of thousands of people who are about to purchase the game saying to the Retailer, "What, you mean I have to have an internet connection, I have to download this Steam thing and I always have to have it and my rights to play the game are controlled by this Steam thing ?". Thats probably the reason for the subtle subtefuge.

Out of interest are there any figures for unhappy customers returning to the retailer in 2008 claiming the FM09 product "just didnt work" or was "unfit for puropose"...or that the manual had a "printing definition issue making the game practically unplayable?"

[RowRow78]

Just out of interest...anyone know why Steam are listing the game for £29.99, when most online actual retailers are under-cutting them? I'm an Amazon Prime customer, so will get the physical boxed game on day of release via a courier all for £24.99, where as if I ordered through Steam I'd have to pound my broadband allowance and pay more, even though (discounting their server costs) they don't have nearly the same distribution costs...?

Surely if they want to convert the doubters to Steam they need to at the very least match their competitors.....?

Sorry, not really an activation issue, just related to a lot of discussion already on here, apologies if the question has already been asked, it's difficult to keep up with all the posts on this thread

[AndyPass]

Just out of interest...anyone know why Steam are listing the game for £29.99, when most online actual retailers are under-cutting them? I'm an Amazon Prime customer, so will get the physical boxed game on day of release via a courier all for £24.99, where as if I ordered through Steam I'd have to pound my broadband allowance and pay more, even though (discounting their server costs) they don't have nearly the same distribution costs...?

Surely if they want to convert the doubters to Steam they need to at the very least match their competitors.....?

Sorry, not really an activation issue, just related to a lot of discussion already on here, apologies if the question has already been asked, it's difficult to keep up with all the posts on this thread

You might find that your internet provider in the UK does not count downloads from Steam.

Here in Oz I use an internet provider called Internode. I downloaded a program (I think it's called Steamwatch) that forces steam to use a local server to download games. Using a local internode server does not eat into my internet allowance.

Not sure who your provider is but you might want to check online in case you ever do use Steam to download a game and you're concerned that it might exceed your download limit.

[RowRow78]

Interesting, had no idea about that. Doesn't really effect my choice though as I only have 700kbs speed, so it would still be a pain in the butt to download. I'm more interested in why Steam are charging more than other retailers when they don't have the same distribution costs tbh...

[AndyPass]

No probs. You may want to consider it for patches though.

Not sure why Steam are charging more though. Can't help with that I'm afraid.

[RowRow78]

Hrm...Looked into it and there is no software like that for Mac and my ISP (BT) are apparently notorious for penalising heavy Steam users...oh well. But thanks for opening my eyes to the possibility Andy.

PS. I realise it may be naive asking here why Steam are charging more and I should really be discussing it with them, but the point remains that SI clearly want their users to move over, but there needs to be a real incentive to do so, and surely price is one of the biggest...

[eddymunster]

No probs. You may want to consider it for patches though.

Not sure why Steam are charging more though. Can't help with that I'm afraid.

Because they know people will pay it for convenience. People like me. By the time I've driven to the shop it's no more expensive anyway. And I'm never in to take deliveries so if I order off Amazon or wherever and it needs signing for I'll have to go collect it anyway. If it doesn't need signing for that's worse.

[spankie]

My biggest problem with Steam is that it has changed the definition of fair use for PC games. It used to be that I could play a game for a while, get tired of it, and give it to a friend or resell it. I would not retain a copy so this was a perfectly legal transaction. Nowadays with Steam, the game is permanently locked to my Steam account upon activation.

It's a bummer to hear that FM12 will follow this trend, but honestly it probably won't influence my purchasing decision very much. If the game is good, I will buy it.

Actually it wasn't a perfectly legal transaction. When you brought the game you paid for the license for you and you alone to play it. When you gave it to a friend or resold it that broke the EULA agreement even if you uninstalled it and never played it again.

The market for pre-owned games is actually a grey area legally and I wouldn't be surprised if at some point regulation comes that that restricts it is some way. Possibly where the owner of the IP of the game (in this case SI/Sega) gets paid a small percentage of any resold game by those companies like Game or HMV who do pre-owned games.

The other possibility is that games companies sell licenses for the game for pre-owned copies of the game and even multi-user licenses for those who buy one copy of the disk and install it on multiple computers with the intent of more then one person playing it at a time. I very much doubt that something like that is currently workable with Steam.

[repton]

i have listened objectively to all the arguments both pro steam and anti steam on this thread and i remain anti steam. Nobody has yet convinced me that i need a piece of obtrusive software lodged on my computer that i do not need. If i was an ardent gamer i might perceive things differently but i am not and don't see why i need it.I only want to play FM12. If i am honest with myself i have become increasingly disenchanted with the FM franchise. Some releases have been not a lot more than glorified database updates and certain releases,FM09,were just plain awful. Consistently the software releases were riddled with bugs some of which made the game virtually unplayable until the January patches but despite this i persevered with the game and continued to buy, believing in this product. When i look back at my past experiences with this product and tag on the requirement to have steam on my computer i find that this is the straw that finally broke the camels back.I no longer need or require FM12 and my days of buying the product 'to support SI' has ended. I don't believe that the partnership between SI and SEGA has been beneficial to the development of the franchise and i believe that the product has only continued to be attractive as a result of the brilliant add on's that this wonderful community has provided. A sad day but this the end for me not just with FM12 but FM per se. Bye everyone

[Herter]

i have listened objectively to all the arguments both pro steam and anti steam on this thread and i remain anti steam. Nobody has yet convinced me that i need a piece of obtrusive software lodged on my computer that i do not need. If i was an ardent gamer i might perceive things differently but i am not and don't see why i need it.I only want to play FM12. If i am honest with myself i have become increasingly disenchanted with the FM franchise. Some releases have been not a lot more than glorified database updates and certain releases,FM09,were just plain awful. Consistently the software releases were riddled with bugs some of which made the game virtually unplayable until the January patches but despite this i persevered with the game and continued to buy, believing in this product. When i look back at my past experiences with this product and tag on the requirement to have steam on my computer i find that this is the straw that finally broke the camels back.I no longer need or require FM12 and my days of buying the product 'to support SI' has ended. I don't believe that the partnership between SI and SEGA has been beneficial to the development of the franchise and i believe that the product has only continued to be attractive as a result of the brilliant add on's that this wonderful community has provided. A sad day but this the end for me not just with FM12 but FM per se. Bye everyone

but i am not and don't see why i need it. - you need it if you want to play FM2012.. its actually that simple

Bye

[Loversleaper]

Actually it wasn't a perfectly legal transaction. When you brought the game you paid for the license for you and you alone to play it. When you gave it to a friend or resold it that broke the EULA agreement even if you uninstalled it and never played it again.

The market for pre-owned games is actually a grey area legally and I wouldn't be surprised if at some point regulation comes that that restricts it is some way. Possibly where the owner of the IP of the game (in this case SI/Sega) gets paid a small percentage of any resold game by those companies like Game or HMV who do pre-owned games.

The other possibility is that games companies sell licenses for the game for pre-owned copies of the game and even multi-user licenses for those who buy one copy of the disk and install it on multiple computers with the intent of more then one person playing it at a time. I very much doubt that something like that is currently workable with Steam.

This is something I have a very hard time understanding. When you buy things you should be able to do with it as you please. There is a huge second-hand market everywhere, on the internet, in newspapers and even second-hand stores. What makes the gaming industry think that they can get around it? Movies and music are sold secondhand, you can also buy secondhand games at some of the gamming stores in my neighborhood. The gamming industry is just as vunerable to pirating then anything else you can think of in the free market. The gamming industry is one of the biggest markets in the world, so to think that they can make this move and present themselves as being above everyone else in a free market is just not right. Just like that time with Microsoft, I think this move will cause some debate - and we all knew how mighty and powerful Microsoft was...

[Smurf]

This is something I have a very hard time understanding. When you buy things you should be able to do with it as you please.

When you buy software you buying a license to use that software on your own computer. You don't own the actual software. You aren't really supposed to resell it on to others.

People have a right to protect their software and the illegal sale of the licenses they distribute.

If you buy through Steam or any game download clients, you most likely wouldn't be able to resell that software anyway.

If you buy through the disc option, you should be able to deactivate that license for your own use. And then sell the disc on.

This is usually how it's done. I buy software that costs literally thousands of euro, about every 18 months. And for me to resell that software when the new versions come out, I have to deactivate and you can no longer use it. Which is fair. You're selling it on. Why should you be able to continue using it?

Problem here with FM is that people were installing the game and then selling the game on. So now 2 or 3 or 4 people were using the same license that was sold in good faith to you to use on your own computer.

I don't blame SI or SEGA for taking this standpoint. They are losing sales because they weren't able to control the licenses they sold in good faith. People abused the system.

Now with Steam, they have a bit of control with the licenses they sell. And suddenly people are in an uproar about it?

At the end of the day SI and SEGA are just protecting their livelihoods against people that steal from them.

If you don't want to use Steam. Then you can't play FM12.

As for others that claim that Steam is "obtrusive" - it's not. It's a small client that you run. Uses same resources as having web browser open. If your computer can handle the min specs for Football Manager - it can handle running Steam.

[Loversleaper]

What's next then? Next time I buy an Armani suit I am actually not buying it but am buying a license to wear their fabric? I don't think you are thinking about the consequences of your implications, it's almost as if you agree that we should no longer have a free market...

If this were North Korea then we might have to except it, but unfortunately for some of you we actually live in a free democracy...

[milnerpoint]

Your acting like this is a new thing, it has always been the case for PC games, it has never been a free market. You buy a piece of software and your buying a license to use it, not the software itself. Consol's are completely different and work to different laws.

Your kidding yourself if you think living anywhere is a free democracy quite frankly.

[spankie]

This is something I have a very hard time understanding. When you buy things you should be able to do with it as you please. There is a huge second-hand market everywhere, on the internet, in newspapers and even second-hand stores. What makes the gaming industry think that they can get around it? Movies and music are sold secondhand, you can also buy secondhand games at some of the gamming stores in my neighborhood. The gamming industry is just as vunerable to pirating then anything else you can think of in the free market. The gamming industry is one of the biggest markets in the world, so to think that they can make this move and present themselves as being above everyone else in a free market is just not right. Just like that time with Microsoft, I think this move will cause some debate - and we all knew how mighty and powerful Microsoft was...

Have you actually read through all the blurb that shows whenever you watch a DVD? Most of them say something along the lines of not being allowed to sell on the DVD. But like you say the second hand market is huge and that agreement and the EULA agreement is not really enforceable.

I still think that thse selling of licenses for second hand use and multi-user licenses is the way to go in the future.

IIRC Dragon Age Origins did that through the backdoor so to speak by selling a DLC that was free for use by those who originally purchased the game. I think Mass Effect 2 did the same thing.

So perhaps SI can contrive of some extra desireable DLC that can be downloaded once per copy of the game and if the disk is legally resold they can charge for the DLC for the next person to own the disk.

[MSCCG]

Actually it wasn't a perfectly legal transaction. When you brought the game you paid for the license for you and you alone to play it. When you gave it to a friend or resold it that broke the EULA agreement even if you uninstalled it and never played it again.

The market for pre-owned games is actually a grey area legally and I wouldn't be surprised if at some point regulation comes that that restricts it is some way. Possibly where the owner of the IP of the game (in this case SI/Sega) gets paid a small percentage of any resold game by those companies like Game or HMV who do pre-owned games.

The other possibility is that games companies sell licenses for the game for pre-owned copies of the game and even multi-user licenses for those who buy one copy of the disk and install it on multiple computers with the intent of more then one person playing it at a time. I very much doubt that something like that is currently workable with Steam.

Wait so if you buy it as a gift you've done something illegal as soon as you hand it to the other person?

What about if you wanted to try the game out to see if you think they would like it?

What about if you installed it on a computer that you were getting for somebody else?

What about if you installed it on your computer then gave the computer and all the software inside away?

What about if you sell your steam account?

What about if you install it, and never play it, then decide to sell it off?

what about if you found a copy of the game in someone's trash?

what about if someone steals the game off you? Who is owed?

It's not a huge deal that I don't get to do that, it's just a little sad when passing games among friends which is supposed to be a healthy social exercise, or passing things to younger siblings or reselling something you don't want to someone who might try it if it was cheaper is not allowed for the sake of possible extra income off people who may or may not buy it at full price.

[Loversleaper]

Your acting like this is a new thing, it has always been the case for PC games, it has never been a free market. You buy a piece of software and your buying a license to use it, not the software itself. Consol's are completely different and work to different laws.

Your kidding yourself if you think living anywhere is a free democracy quite frankly.

This is a big issue, what makes the gamming industry above everyone else in the free market? Of course they are going to try to monopolise their products for their own self interrest just as Microsoft did with their software. I know you enjoy the notion that we do not live in a free democracy, but you are kidding yourself if you think everyone is just like you and will just lie down and except it...

[milnerpoint]

The difference is you agree to this when you install the game, when you click yes to the terms and conditions, next time i would suggest reading them if your unsure where you stand. I'm not bothered about the rest of your post i was merely pointing out the law because you did not seem to know it, the rest of that post is for another thread and another time.

[Herter]

Wait so if you buy it as a gift you've done something illegal as soon as you hand it to the other person?

No

What about if you wanted to try the game out to see if you think they would like it?

Its fine.. just uninstall before giving the game away

What about if you installed it on a computer that you were getting for somebody else?

Its fine

What about if you installed it on your computer then gave the computer and all the software inside away?

Normally you would format the harddrive before you sell your pc.. legally I dont think it is a problem unless you keep the physical CD while letting the software be installed on the sold PC

What about if you sell your steam account?

AFAIK you are not allowed to sell your Steam account and they close it if the find out

What about if you install it, and never play it, then decide to sell it off?

fine.. just uninstall before selling

what about if you found a copy of the game in someone's trash?

If you have the physical copy and obtained it legally you own the rights to use it.. then its fine

what about if someone steals the game off you? Who is owed?

you really dont know? - then they stole the physical copy, but you still legally own the rights to use it.

It's not a huge deal that I don't get to do that, it's just a little sad when passing games among friends which is supposed to be a healthy social exercise, or passing things to younger siblings or reselling something you don't want to someone who might try it if it was cheaper is not allowed for the sake of possible extra income off people who may or may not buy it at full price.

1010101010

[Super Bladesman]

Wait so if you buy it as a gift you've done something illegal as soon as you hand it to the other person? - No. You agree to terms of the EULA (licence) during installation.

What about if you wanted to try the game out to see if you think they would like it? - SI release an extensive demo for this purpose.

What about if you installed it on a computer that you were getting for somebody else? - Technically, you'd probably have to let them install the game themselves, as they should be the ones agreeing to the terms of the EULA.

What about if you installed it on your computer then gave the computer and all the software inside away? - Legally, you should delete the software first. The same would go for Windows etc., so you'd probably be best just deleting the HDD.

What about if you sell your steam account? - The terms of the Steam registration and activation agreement do not permit the sale of a Steam account.

What about if you install it, and never play it, then decide to sell it off? - Tough.

what about if you found a copy of the game in someone's trash? - Not sure what the legalities of this are - probably depend on where you live. I think technically in the UK at least it is actually illegal to remove something from someone else's trash without permission, as it is still technically their property.

what about if someone steals the game off you? Who is owed? - This wouldn't be possible via Steam; the game is tied to your account, and so you'd just be able to re-install it on any PC.

See the above.

[Smurf]

Software EULA has been in existence for a very long time. It's nothing new. Most people just don't seem to know they buy a license to use the software, not the software itself.

I buy a TV and I still have to buy a license. But why do I? It's my TV surely I can put whatever I like on it?

Here's one for Kriss I bought a car - why do I need to buy a license to drive it? (and yes you used to be able to just sign a form and buy a license in the yesteryear)

Even with your Windows or Mac - you've got a EULA. With every font on your computer. Every piece of software. Every image. Every video. Everything is for you to use under a license with terms of use laid out.

[afced7]

This is a big issue, what makes the gamming industry above everyone else in the free market? Of course they are going to try to monopolise their products for their own self interrest just as Microsoft did with their software. I know you enjoy the notion that we do not live in a free democracy, but you are kidding yourself if you think everyone is just like you and will just lie down and except it...

Don't buy games if you disagree with the terms. You keep acting as though people are continually forcing you to do things against your will. You're right, most of us live in a free democracy, and you are free to choose not to buy something if you disagree with the principles of the manufacturer.

[Kriss]

I'm still desperately waiting for a good analogy;)

[afced7]

This is a big issue, what makes the gamming industry above everyone else in the free market?

Yeah damn those whalers and their monopolies

[Loversleaper]

I know some of you disagree and will fight for the big corps no matter what. This licensing issue is not exactly as Eugene pointed out in regards to having a license to drive a car, when you are moving several tons around amongst people you have to know what you are doing otherwise you can kill someone. This is not the case with a video game, it will not harm anyone otherwise we would have the whole medical institution breathing down SEGA's neck...

[afced7]

I know some of you disagree and will fight for the big corps no matter what.

And we know that you'll probably slag them off no matter what.

[milnerpoint]

I know some of you disagree and will fight for the big corps no matter what. This licensing issue is not exactly as Eugene pointed out in regards to having a license to drive a car, when you are moving several tons around amongst people you have to know what you are doing otherwise you can kill someone. This is not the case with a video game, it will not harm anyone otherwise we would have the whole medical institution breathing down SEGA's neck...

Its not about fighting for anyone, its about the law, we dont write the laws, we are only passing on the information you seem to be missing. Ok the TV one is better than the car anaolgy, you buy a TV or anything that can recieve a TV signal then you must have a TV license, even if you watch only one channel that is not related in anyway to the BBC you must have a TV license. Where is your free choice then?

[Loversleaper]

Don't buy games if you disagree with the terms. You keep acting as though people are continually forcing you to do things against your will. You're right, most of us live in a free democracy, and you are free to choose not to buy something if you disagree with the principles of the manufacturer.

The manufacturers don't decide the rules of a free market, they can try but ultimately they have to abide by the rules passed down by the governments we chose...

The big corps will always try to have their way, and if someone doesn't challenge them then I guess we don't live in a free democracy anymore, now will we?

[playmaker]

I'm still desperately waiting for a good analogy;)

Good analogies are like cars - they're full of hot air and sooner or later they break down.

[afced7]

The manufacturers don't decide the rules of a free market, they can try but ultimately they have to abide by the rules passed down by the governments we chose...

The big corps will always try to have their way, and if someone doesn't challenge them then I guess we don't live in a free democracy anymore, now will we?

They are abiding by the rules of governments though, otherwise the existence of a EULA would be illegal.

Maybe you should start standing up for the little man and take all the major game developers to court over your belief that a software licence agreement is illegal.

[Herter]

The manufacturers don't decide the rules of a free market, they can try but ultimately they have to abide by the rules passed down by the governments we chose...

The big corps will always try to have their way, and if someone doesn't challenge them then I guess we don't live in a free democracy anymore, now will we?

So the people complaining on SI forums against Steam are actually freedom fighters? lol

[Loversleaper]

So the people complaining on SI forums against Steam are actually freedom fighters? lol

Don't you at least think it's fair that the gamming population at least has the freedom to have a choice instead of being forced to have internet connections and have Steam present on your computer?

[Kriss]

I thought it worth copying this from another thread just to demonstrate that Steam does have benefits, in this case to a huge number of people.

"Already perordered it from STEAM for myself and as a gift to my friend. The only 'fast and painless' option here (Ukraine) - otherwise you have to rely on postal service (couple of weeks delay) or shipment of Russian version to local shops (months of delay).

Thanks SEGA and SI for making the game available for former USSR in STEAM since last year! No need to go to London for a copy:lol:"

[afced7]

Don't you at least think it's fair that the gamming population at least has the freedom to have a choice instead of being forced to have internet connections and have Steam present on your computer?

Nobody's forcing anything on anybody. Don't buy FM2012 if you don't have an internet connection. Same as you wouldn't buy FM if you didn't have a computer. There is your choice.

[playmaker]

In respect to licences...

You can't sell a suit and still wear it. You can't download a suit. You can't stick a suit in a machine and have an identical copy a few minutes later. You can't broadcast a suit and you can't pick up a guitar and play a suit or walk down the street whistling a suit. You can't damage or delete a suit, then reinstall it and have it in the same condition as it started. Software is a totally different concept.

The minute you install software, it exists in more than one place - so you have the ability to copy it legally in order to use it. Since you can copy it, the only way to define theft is by limiting where it can be copied. That's all a licence does. If you don't have that limitation, piracy doesn't exist and one copy can be use by anybody that wants it. That means developers make no money, which means no more software - so you've gone from free market to no market.

[Herter]

Don't you at least think it's fair that the gamming population at least has the freedom to have a choice instead of being forced to have internet connections and have Steam present on your computer?

I understand that people dont think it is an optimal solution.. but I really dont see the problem, unless you of course do not have an internet connection and NO chance of going online for a few minutes.

It is very simple.. if you dont want steam, no FM.. if you have no internet, no FM.. I am perhaps a bit biased, but I already use steam so for me it is a good idea.

[Loversleaper]

So, because of the whole EULA issue we are by law forced to have internet connections and have Steam present on our computers. Are people really serious???? :confused:

[Herter]

In respect to licences...

You can't sell a suit and still wear it. You can't download a suit. You can't stick a suit in a machine and have an identical copy a few minutes later. You can't broadcast a suit and you can't pick up a guitar and play a suit or walk down the street whistling a suit. You can't damage or delete a suit, then reinstall it and have it in the same condition as it started. Software is a totally different concept.

The minute you install software, it exists in more than one place - so you have the ability to copy it legally in order to use it. Since you can copy it, the only way to define theft is by limiting where it can be copied. That's all a licence does. If you don't have that limitation, piracy doesn't exist and one copy can be use by anybody that wants it. That means developers make no money, which means no more software - so you've gone from free market to no market.

well said.. +1 from me

[Herter]

So, because of the whole EULA issue we are by law forced to have internet connections and have Steam present on our computers. Are people really serious???? :confused:

Are you FORCED into buying FM? - no.. then you dont need steam and internet.. It is allowed to think before posting

[afced7]

So, because of the whole EULA issue we are by law forced to have internet connections and have Steam present on our computers. Are people really serious???? :confused:

The only person saying that is you. If you were forced by law to play FM2012 then yes, by law you would also need internet access and steam. Since you aren't forced to buy or play the game, nobody is forcing you to install steam.