A Message On Football Manager 2012 Activation

[rancer890]

Oh... well yeah that's obviously unfair too, although I can think of a few reasons why SEGA/SI may have done this.

SEGA/SI don't have final say on retail prices (as well as the price on Steam).

[ronaldo_1978]

I do think there must be some way SI or Sega can help those loyal fans of god knows how many years by providing some way of activation if you have no net. My mate won't be able to play the only game he loves due to having no net and he isn't gonna get internet at his house just for a one off activation for a game, There must be a way or something they can do, Either by giving me some code to give to him, I'm sure in this day of technology something can be done, I always support SI and Sega has FM is my main game I play and I buy it every year but it does feel like my mates getting a kick in.

[milnerpoint]

So I reckon Sega using Steam as a method to deter people from pirating FM has absolutely nothing in common with the government using the presence of police to deter people from committing crime?

Its a far out analogy ill give him that, but it does hold some water, DRM is basically game police, easy to avoid if you want too, but its the law. People who commit crimes will never be put off by police, just like hackers wont be put off by DRM.

[Smurf]

One cracked game is all that is needed...boy oh boy.. Repeat: One cracked game gets sent all over the web...it gets burnt to CDs....How has the anti-piracy method stopped this. There are forums you can search right now for any game you want...why are you stubborn about this??? I mean seriously are you thinking about your argument. One cracked game = 10000's of games!!!

Who cares if there's 1000's of games? Don't steal them.

If anti-piracy wasn't working then they wouldn't bother with it. But they seem to be bothered with doing it because they know it works.

[ladbroke]

With that in mind, then SI should never developed the 3D match engine, because their are users that dont have a PC with the requirements to play the game in 3D?

Games companys made games that need certain requirements. It's up to the potential users to see if they have the right hardware to play those games. That not of any concern of the game company if you dont have internet.

When FM2009 was released my PC could match the requirements to play the game in 3D. Should i blame SI for that? If i what to play the game... buy a new PC (or upgrade).

But in yout case, you dont even need to do that. Go to your sisters house and activate the game there. they play it with steam in offline mode!

But I would then need to take my pc there, would I not?

In recent history I had Steam on my computer but deleted it as I could not play games as it wouldn't allow me into offline mode. The system does not allow you to change settings to offline mode once you are already offline. You have to change it to offline before leaving online mode.

At least when they implemented 3D engine, you still have the ability to play in 2D. I have a computer capable of 3D but I dont use it all the time. I actually only use it when playing what I call major games (ie cup finals, title deciders etc).

Yes, every so often I look to upgrade my tower to newer components, but that doesn't dampen my chances of playing games. Having to access the internet, it does.

I can not install the game at my sisters using her computer then suddenly able to play on my computer. Otherwise if that was the case, I'd buy the game and then distribute to everyone I know and make money myself (something I would not do, but using as an argument).. It is not that simple.

I can not use my sisters internet to register.

And response to someones suggestion about using BTOpenworld. I have tried to use it in the past, but to have access to it, you must be within range of someone that has BT wireless and is capable of sending out a signal or within a beacon to receive directly from BT. I don't have either. I live in a block of flats where SKY is the dominant provider for the occupants. Sky do not have that option.

[CaptainPlanet]

One cracked game is all that is needed...boy oh boy.. Repeat: One cracked game gets sent all over the web...it gets burnt to CDs....How has the anti-piracy method stopped this. There are forums you can search right now for any game you want...why are you stubborn about this??? I mean seriously are you thinking about your argument. One cracked game = 10000's of games!!!

Every game in the PC top 10 has either a website you have to register on, 3rd party software running or both. All as anti-piracy methods.

Is every single big developer wrong? And you're the one to point out to them that they're wrong?

[rancer890]

Its a far out analogy ill give him that, but it does hold some water, DRM is basically game police, easy to avoid if you want too, but its the law. People who commit crimes will never be put off by police, just like hackers wont be put off by DRM.

I understand your extreme analogy milnerpoint. I was just hoping that others would. I was attempting to write my post in a manner that would make it easier for others to understand and draw parallels between the two.

[Keyzer Soze]

But I would then need to take my pc there, would I not?

In recent history I had Steam on my computer but deleted it as I could not play games as it wouldn't allow me into offline mode. The system does not allow you to change settings to offline mode once you are already offline. You have to change it to offline before leaving online mode.

At least when they implemented 3D engine, you still have the ability to play in 2D. I have a computer capable of 3D but I dont use it all the time. I actually only use it when playing what I call major games (ie cup finals, title deciders etc).

Yes, every so often I look to upgrade my tower to newer components, but that doesn't dampen my chances of playing games. Having to access the internet, it does.

I can not install the game at my sisters using her computer then suddenly able to play on my computer. Otherwise if that was the case, I'd buy the game and then distribute to everyone I know and make money myself (something I would not do, but using as an argument).. It is not that simple.

I can not use my sisters internet to register.

And response to someones suggestion about using BTOpenworld. I have tried to use it in the past, but to have access to it, you must be within range of someone that has BT wireless and is capable of sending out a signal or within a beacon to receive directly from BT. I don't have either. I live in a block of flats where SKY is the dominant provider for the occupants. Sky do not have that option.

Sorry, i was thinking in terms of a laptop.

[CaptainPlanet]

And response to someones suggestion about using BTOpenworld. I have tried to use it in the past, but to have access to it, you must be within range of someone that has BT wireless and is capable of sending out a signal or within a beacon to receive directly from BT. I don't have either. I live in a block of flats where SKY is the dominant provider for the occupants. Sky do not have that option.

If you have a phone line you can buy a modem and dial up a free ISP which will give you limited 56k access.

Or consider a pay as you go wireless USB dongle?

[milnerpoint]

I understand your extreme analogy milnerpoint. I was just hoping that others would. I was attempting to write my post in a manner that would make it easier for others to understand and draw parallels between the two.

It would appear the general thought is theft is ok, under certain circumstances because SI have given people no choice but to steal. I think it stands tho, why bother policing anything at all, people have broken practically every law there is to break, do these people stop doing what they do if you take away the laws? With the same thought do people stop stealing games if there is no DRM?

[Guest aaron70]

Every game in the PC top 10 has either a website you have to register on, 3rd party software running or both. All as anti-piracy methods.

Is every single big developer wrong? And you're the one to point out to them that they're wrong?

A Brick Wall......good on them for trying...sigh.... doesn't mean the games are not already pirated....the only reason I say that piracy is not a valid reason to offer other alternatives is because all of these games can be downloaded now for free....Have I ever said it is not worth trying? ......why do you seem to think that if there is an alternative offered it can't have DRM or some purchase method...how about a phone in system........if as you say the numbers a re so small.......then a phone in system or similar would be easy ....severely stubborn selfish people. One day when you have a problem with being able to play a game, let's see ten.

You seem so determined that Sega not offer anything for the people who need something. Why? Heavens knows...It would ruin your day I guess . I really feel sad knowing about the attitude of people here...selfish.

[milnerpoint]

Every game in the PC top 10 has either a website you have to register on, 3rd party software running or both. All as anti-piracy methods.

Is every single big developer wrong? And you're the one to point out to them that they're wrong?

no but remember Paradox, who i bet most people had no heard of until this thread, are the only way forward, topping the selling charts and beating everyone else...............

[milnerpoint]

A Brick Wall......good on them for trying...sigh.... doesn't mean the games are not already pirated....the only reason I say that piracy is not a valid reason to offer other alternatives is because all of these games can be downloaded now for free....Have I ever said it is not worth trying? ......why do you seem to think that if there is an alternative offered it can't have DRM or some purchase method...how about a phone in system........if as you say the numbers a re so small.......then a phone in system or similar would be easy ....severely stubborn selfish people. One day when you have a problem with being able to play a game, let's see ten.

You seem so determined that Sega not offer anything for the people who need something. Why? Heavens knows...It would ruin your day I guess . I really feel sad knowing about the attitude of people here...selfish.

They did the phone system, no one used it. You must have missed Miles post, ill re-post it for a second time

I was planning on responding to this thread yesterday afternoon, but whilst on the way to the studio I was involved in a car crash (no one hurt, which is good) and was a bit shaken up, so not the time for me to be replying in the calm manner that I wanted to to this thread.

This was always going to be an emotive subject. Any form of copy protection is. There's no conspiracy theory about SEGA posting about it though - they normally do so, as it's a publishing thing, not a development thing. It is their job to come up with recommendations in this area, but we were consulted about the various options available. This is by far and away the best one that was presented to us, from a user perspective, a business perspective and a protection perspective.

No one from SEGA or SI would say that using the system that we are means that the game will not be cracked at some point. It's bound to be. But with the exception of FM2009, every version of FM has been available to pirate before the retail release. During that few days, every year, retail see pre-orders being cancelled. Every year retail see pre-orders not being collected, even those with "free gifts" and where deposits have been paid. If it can be made that those people who legitimately buy our games this year get to play it before those that are pirating, that will be a good thing. If it can be that way for a few months, weeks, or even days, after that release, we do believe it will make a big difference.

We are also not saying that we believe that if the game isn't cracked, all of those previous pirates will buy it. I do not believe that 1 pirated copy = 1 lost sale. The vast majority of people who pirate it won't pay the money for it, certainly not at launch. But I do believe that a proportion of them will do. And those extra sales, for however long the game can be protected, will lead to an increase in dev budgets, and therefore better, or more, games for all.

Dave gave some stats out earlier which were slightly inaccurate. It's not the case that there are 3 people playing pirated copies of FM for every 1 legitimate customer - there are more than 4 people playing pirated copies of FM for every legitimate customer. And to the question on whether that takes into account people who have bought who play with CD cracks, it doesn't matter, as even if every single person who bought FM played with a CD crack, there would still be 3 people playing pirated versions for each 1 legitimate customer who has decided to install a 3rd party, illegal in the majority of countries, CD crack.

There are people claiming on here that the reason for doing this is just to kill the second hand market. That's simply not true - it didn't even come into the conversation when discussing protection for this year. According to the licensing agreement for the game, whether you've read it or not, it's against the license to re-sell the game. As it is for the vast majority of PC games. The vast majority of retailers who deal in second hand games do not trade in PC games, whatever the protection is. And the replayability factor of FM is huge, so second hand isn't something that has affected us in a major way at all.

One big thing that was taken into account when looking at the various systems available was how many people, given the choice with FM11 of whether to install the game via Steam or without Steam, chose to install via Steam. The results surprised me, with the majority of people deciding to install through Steam.

There've been questions about what I think of the reaction, given that it's 17 pages so far. Well, obviously I'm disappointed when anyone says they aren't going to buy our next release, and I doubt there's anything that I'll be saying here that will appease those people. But the reality is that those being negative in the 17 pages are mainly the same people - about 50 in total. The negative reaction from a few people is very similar to that when Total War announced that they were going down this route. And when Civ went down this route. I'm sure both Creative Assembly and Firaxis were just as disappointed to be losing some long term customers as I am - but that doesn't change the decision that has been made, nor change my belief that from the options we had, it's the best one for all.

We will, continuously, look for other ways to provide our games to people as long as it doesn't compromise the security that is needed. I've been vocal about how I really like the OnLive system, for example, and this is something we'll continue to investigate. That does require you to register, though, and does require an internet connection permanently to play, so certainly won't suit all if we do go down that route.

There've been many posts about the problem being the installation of third party software on your machine, but that's just a part of life when it comes to PC games. Whether that be Direct X, graphics drivers, Windows/MacOS, font rendering technology, web browsing tech or other middleware, anytime you install a game, or application on your computer, you require third party software.

People have also asked "what about those who don't have an internet connection". When we had activation for FM2009 which was done both online and via telephone, less than 4% of people, globally, chose to use the telephone route. Some of these people had a net connection, but didn't want to authenticate that way (as per the huge threads at that time). So, again whilst it's disappointing that some people genuinely don't have a net connection and might miss out, this was taken into account with the overall decision, and there wasn't an option presented to me by SEGA this year that didn't involve purely online activation.

There has also been talk about other PC titles on here that will get your money instead. I've seen the following being mentioned so far (apologies if I've missed any) - Call of Duty, Battlefield, Fifa Manager, FIFA, Batman & Rage. Battlefield, FIFA Manager & FIFA on PC will all require EA's online system, called Origin, and for you to register with them. Rage is Steamworks, as we are. Call of Duty uses Activision's new online system. I do not know about Batman's authentication method, or whether it has one.

You've asked how we're letting people know about this. Well, apart from the forum thread, there was a mailshot on Friday to hundreds of thousands of our registered customers to let them know about it, as well as telling them about the blogs and the release date. Since then, pre-orders have gone up massively with our pre-order position at Amazon in the UK (for example) going up from the mid 20's into the top 10, peaking at 5 and currently at 7, which is way higher than we normally are at this time of year. There will also be, front of pack in between the SI logo and the age rating, in big letters, the words "requires internet connection to activate", which was insisted upon by me for us to be able to go ahead with this. I will be chasing SEGA first thing on Monday to ensure that all retailers who have packshots online switch to the final packshot, rather than the one they are currently using.

I, like many of the people who aren't happy with the decision, am also a very principled person. There are certain chains that I don't eat at. There's even a local sandwich shop that I won't go to anymore as they wouldn't change the bun on a sandwich I wanted (the original had sesame seeds on them, and I have a nut allergy) when they'd done so dozens of times in the past. I am well aware that some people will not buy the game purely on principle because we have gone Steam only this year and, as I said above, I'm very disappointed by that. Despite my own principles though, I fully understand and support the decision that has been made, given the options presented.

I also think that Steam itself is fantastic. I have more than 80 games on my account. They are massively helpful at every turn to help us get the game integrated with their features, like achievements, and allowing people with PC's & Mac's to be able to play games on both systems. SEGA's customer support team will be on hand if anyone does have an issue, as always, on top of Steam's support.

So, that's my opinion on the 17 pages that I've read so far. As I said, it's not going to appease all those who are anti, as some of those who are anti will only be happy if the decision is reversed, and it isn't going to be. Hopefully, though, some of the points I've made will appease some of you.

There are 2 questions that I haven't been able to answer that I do think need answering, which are how do people in countries where the game isn't sold play, and what about people in the forces who don't have net connections. Those are things for SEGA to look into, and I would hope that they would get back to you on those.

[pigfacemonkeyman]

I bet you're mad that shops don't sell the latest charts on vinyl any more too?

What are 'latest charts'? I just happen to think your statement;

I think it's acceptable that having a home internet connection is a minimum requirement.

is unnecessary. What was its purpose? Other than dismissing huge sections of the world's population that is.

A minimum requirement for what? Being able to make these kind of statements I suppose!

[CaptainPlanet]

A Brick Wall......good on them for trying...sigh.... doesn't mean the games are not already pirated....the only reason I say that piracy is not a valid reason to offer other alternatives is because all of these games can be downloaded now for free....Have I ever said it is not worth trying? ......why do you seem to think that if there is an alternative offered it can't have DRM or some purchase method...how about a phone in system........if as you say the numbers a re so small.......then a phone in system or similar would be easy ....severely stubborn selfish people. One day when you have a problem with being able to play a game, let's see ten.

You seem so determined that Sega not offer anything for the people who need something. Why? Heavens knows...It would ruin your day I guess . I really feel sad knowing about the attitude of people here...selfish.

I'm not even buying FM12, I'm not a Sega or SI or FM fanboy, I just see the justification in their choice. You seem just as stubborn to prove that I'm wrong, does that mean you're a saddo too?

[CaptainPlanet]

What are 'latest charts'? I just happen to think your statement; is unnecessary. What was its purpose? Other than dismissing huge sections of the world's population that is.

A minimum requirement for what? Being able to make these kind of statements I suppose!

A minimum requirement for being able to play a modern PC computer game. In the same way that I think a band only selling songs digitally and having a device to play their songs is a valid minimum requirement. Or a film release only being on Bluray is a valid minimum requirement.

[Guest]

What are 'latest charts'? I just happen to think your statement; is unnecessary. What was its purpose? Other than dismissing huge sections of the world's population that is.

A minimum requirement for what? Being able to make these kind of statements I suppose!

I'm sorry but that huge section of the global population who do not have access the internet are also unlikely to be part of the PC gaming consumer base.

Based on Miles' post I accept that as a commercial decision on the numbers available from previous releases the choice was/is correct.

[eddymunster]

But why you get mad at this? Ultimate it's a decision that bennefit SI, witch means... SI will continue to have the resources to make the game!

if they are "loyal" and "die Hard", then surely they just buy the game anyway?

@ Milnerpoint - SI & SEGA seem to agree with you, taking their existing customers for granted.

@ Keyzer Soze - I originally was questioning the agenda of SI & SEGA. To try to see why they are making customers keep steam installed even though many don't want it. I don't believe that going through steam will have any significant benefit to them. I believe that people who get copied versions of the game or cracked versions etc won't decide to buy it because it is now linked to steam. It will still be inevitably be available FOC from somewhere. So why risk alienating your existing customers?

I think the answer is that SI/SEGA decided that they wanted to try and get more customers by reducing piracy because it costs them (SI/SEGA) less than making the legitimate version of the game more appealing than pirated copies because they're not paying steam for this activation service. But this involves irritating many of their existing customers, which I think damages the good relationship SI has built with it's customers.

If you already have steam you have no problems. But I don't want it, I also am not keen on SI/SEGA taking its existing customer base (without steam) for granted.

[Keyzer Soze]

If you already have steam you have no problems. But I don't want it, I also am not keen on SI/SEGA taking its existing customer base (without steam) for granted.

I dont have steam! Never install it on any computer i've own, and never had the intented to do it.

But, FM is my favourite game, so in order to play it, i dont mind making "sacrifices".

Two years ago, the sacrifice was buying a new laptop!

This years... is installing steam!

Would i rather continue to play FM without installing steam? Of course! But would i prefer stop playing FM for not install steam? Of course ... not!

[milnerpoint]

No one is being taken for granted or screwed over or anything, you are a customer of a game, unless you release downloadable content you are nothing more, even if in your head you think your the savior of SI. You are not affiliated with SI or SEGA and you do not owe them or them owe you anything. You either buy the game or not, simple as, stop thinking your anything more than just a number on a database. But you seem to suggest that the average FMer is a thief who would rather steal the game than use a 3rd party tool, i'm sure that fills SI with so much good feeling about their "loyal, die hard" fanbase, anyone who steals the game rather than use steam this year is not a fan of the game, they are a criminal only interested in themselves, if you think any other way your completely deluded.

SI have not irritated many of their customers, they have irritated a few vocal forum members, they already sell a very large number of copies through Steam, and i can imagine the vast majority of FMer's either use steam, or dont really care either way. A very tiny minority wont buy the game this year, again dont kid yourself otherwise.

[Katarian]

Paradox will use steam because it is a retail venue with access to many customers, not for there anti-piracy abilities.

It would be rather hypocritical to ditch their DRM policy to sell their games on a portal that didn't fit with that policy. They must think Steam adds value to customers of their games that is worth more then the inconviences of the DRM.

And??.....the argument is that Sega should offer options like Paradox do. You seem to think we are saying NO STEAM...no we are saying how about options for those who do not want to use steam.

Because they are not going to release a game without DRM like Paradox does. So any other DRM option is going cost extra resources to implement and maintain.

[pigfacemonkeyman]

So I reckon Sega using Steam as a method to deter people from pirating FM has absolutely nothing in common with the government using the presence of police to deter people from committing crime?

I think you be reckoning right. It isn't the presence of the police that deters people from committing crime.

[iantevanslive]

Common sense still hasn't prevailed I see................so disappointing

[Keyzer Soze]

Common sense still hasn't prevailed I see................so disappointing

common sense?!?!? NEVER!!!

[milnerpoint]

I think you be reckoning right. It isn't the presence of the police that deters people from committing crime.

so what is it then?

[eddymunster]

No one is being taken for granted or screwed over or anything, you are a customer of a game, unless you release downloadable content you are nothing more, even if in your head you think your the savior of SI. You are not affiliated with SI or SEGA and you do not owe them or them owe you anything. You either buy the game or not, simple as, stop thinking your anything more than just a number on a database. But you seem to suggest that the average FMer is a thief who would rather steal the game than use a 3rd party tool, i'm sure that fills SI with so much good feeling about their "loyal, die hard" fanbase, anyone who steals the game rather than use steam this year is not a fan of the game, they are a criminal only interested in themselves, if you think any other way your completely deluded.

SI have not irritated many of their customers, they have irritated a few vocal forum members, they already sell a very large number of copies through Steam, and i can imagine the vast majority of FMer's either use steam, or dont really care either way. A very tiny minority wont buy the game this year, again dont kid yourself otherwise.

I take it that was aimed at my post above. The saviour of SI? I don't see your point? I have at no point suggested the average FMer is a thief, in fact SI/SEGA seem more of that opinion than anyone (4 thieves to 1 buyer were sega's stats). Do you think I'm trying to agree with piracy or something?

Have you read any of my other posts on this thread?

I have repeatedly said that SI have left you 2 choices, download steam OR don't play FM. Not download steam or get a pirate copy. I totally disagree with piracy it's stealing after all.

[Guest aaron70]

I'm not even buying FM12, I'm not a Sega or SI or FM fanboy, I just see the justification in their choice. You seem just as stubborn to prove that I'm wrong, does that mean you're a saddo too?

No...just somebody who would rather look out for the welfare of gamer who will have a game withheld from them. I really don't care if that was just 1000 people. But as I said...people would rather poor old Sega were not caused any inconvenience. Sign of the times I guess. Even though it means nothing to people here whether Sega give an option, it does mean something to those people who are not...Instead we get sarcastic remarks (vinyl records, Paradox the powerhouse of gaming).......any decent points are just brick walled.....sad. Gamers community???? Nope.

[milnerpoint]

I take it that was aimed at my post above. The saviour of SI? I don't see your point? I have at no point suggested the average FMer is a thief, in fact SI/SEGA seem more of that opinion than anyone (4 thieves to 1 buyer were sega's stats). Do you think I'm trying to agree with piracy or something?

Have you read any of my other posts on this thread?

I have repeatedly said that SI have left you 2 choices, download steam OR don't play FM. Not download steam or get a pirate copy. I totally disagree with piracy it's stealing after all.

Sorry that was an exaggerated point that added nothing to the post!

The rest wasnt directed at you exactly, just the general feel i get from this thread. Stealing is seen as ok and not really worth fighting.

[pigfacemonkeyman]

It would appear the general thought is theft is ok, under certain circumstances because SI have given people no choice but to steal. I think it stands tho, why bother policing anything at all, people have broken practically every law there is to break, do these people stop doing what they do if you take away the laws? With the same thought do people stop stealing games if there is no DRM?

How the hell did you come to that conclusion? Show the evidence. Name the people and their posts that have this 'General Thought'.

[Guest aaron70]

t would appear the general thought is theft is ok, under certain circumstances because SI have given people no choice but to steal. I think it stands tho, why bother policing anything at all, people have broken practically every law there is to break, do these people stop doing what they do if you take away the laws? With the same thought do people stop stealing games if there is no DRM?

Wow...this suggest what I said was true...not even reading posts being made. I certainly have never suggested tht anybody SHOULD steal the game.

[CaptainPlanet]

No...just somebody who would rather look out for the welfare of gamer who will have a game withheld from them. I really don't care if that was just 1000 people. But as I said...people would rather poor old Sega were not caused any inconvenience. Sign of the times I guess. Even though it means nothing to people here whether Sega give an option, it does mean something to those people who are not...Instead we get sarcastic remarks (vinyl records, Paradox the powerhouse of gaming).......any decent points are just brick walled.....sad. Gamers community???? Nope.

A modern PC gamer without the internet is comparable to someone with a record player hating itunes.

[ronaldo_1978]

A modern PC gamer without the internet is comparable to someone with a record player hating itunes.

Wait I only buy vinyl and hate Itunes ... Tho to be fair you must admit it's a little naughty to discriminate against someone because of their financial status who can't afford internet

[pigfacemonkeyman]

They did the phone system, no one used it. You must have missed Miles post, ill re-post it for a second time

Will you please stop re-posting Miles' post or I will feel it necessary to keep highlighting this:

You've asked how we're letting people know about this. Well, apart from the forum thread, there was a mailshot on Friday to hundreds of thousands of our registered customers to let them know about it, as well as telling them about the blogs and the release date. Since then, pre-orders have gone up massively with our pre-order position at Amazon in the UK (for example) going up from the mid 20's into the top 10, peaking at 5 and currently at 7, which is way higher than we normally are at this time of year. There will also be, front of pack in between the SI logo and the age rating, in big letters, the words "requires internet connection to activate", which was insisted upon by me for us to be able to go ahead with this. I will be chasing SEGA first thing on Monday to ensure that all retailers who have packshots online switch to the final packshot, rather than the one they are currently using.

Thank you.

[heathxxx]

Most of this thread now, just seems to be turning into a load of...

[eddymunster]

Sorry that was an exaggerated point that added nothing to the post!

The rest wasnt directed at you exactly, just the general feel i get from this thread. Stealing is seen as ok and not really worth fighting.

No, stealing is wrong end of. And I'm glad it wasn't entirely aimed at me because I found quite alot of your post fairly offensive. I do however think there are other ways of combating it rather than forcing every FMer to use Steam. And that those that don't want to have a 3rd party program should have another option. Even if it's only an option to remove it after you have finished installing.

[milnerpoint]

Will you please stop re-posting Miles' post or I will feel it necessary to keep highlighting this:

Thank you.

Your point is? Do you know he hasnt spoken to someone at SEGA about it? What has that got to do with activating the game by telephone?

[pigfacemonkeyman]

I'm not even buying FM12, I'm not a Sega or SI or FM fanboy, I just see the justification in their choice. You seem just as stubborn to prove that I'm wrong, does that mean you're a saddo too?

A minimum requirement for being able to play a modern PC computer game. In the same way that I think a band only selling songs digitally and having a device to play their songs is a valid minimum requirement. Or a film release only being on Bluray is a valid minimum requirement.

Why is this guy still here?

[afced7]

Tho to be fair you must admit it's a little naughty to discriminate against someone because of their financial status who can't afford internet

They only need it for about 30 seconds, I'm sure if people put their mind to it there would be SOME solution to their dilemma.

[milnerpoint]

No, stealing is wrong end of. And I'm glad it wasn't entirely aimed at me because I found quite alot of your post fairly offensive. I do however think there are other ways of combating it rather than forcing every FMer to use Steam. And that those that don't want to have a 3rd party program should have another option. Even if it's only an option to remove it after you have finished installing.

I did not mean to offend you at all, sorry if it came across that way, my internet mannerisms are not always the best!

Heath is right tho, ill leave it here, i have said MORE than my fair share on this topic. Happy steaming everyone!!

[eddymunster]

They did the phone system, no one used it. You must have missed Miles post, ill re-post it for a second time

I did use it actually. Well I tried, it was massively understaffed, constantly engaged and inundated with people phoning with complaints because the online was down for whatever reason.

This may have also skewed the 4% of people who used the phone activation. If there was more availability how does anyone know that stat would not have been much higher?

[Guest aaron70]

A modern PC gamer without the internet is comparable to someone with a record player hating itunes.

In your world perhaps. My mate's grandfather doesn't have Internet but plays football manager at 80 years of age. Tough luck pops. I am sure we will work out some way to activate him but there will be others not so fortunate. As I said I don't care if it it 1000 people affected, why shouldn't Sega try to help them out....Because it appears not the consumers are dancing to the companies tune.

Again I ask, Would it ruin your day if the company attempted to help all customers? Why are you against them getting assistance?

[ronaldo_1978]

They only need it for about 30 seconds, I'm sure if people put their mind to it there would be SOME solution to their dilemma.

I understand that but you still need it at your own house if you own a desktop pc

[afced7]

In your world perhaps. My mate's grandfather doesn't have Internet but plays football manager at 80 years of age. Tough luck pops. I am sure we will work out some way to activate him but there will be others not so fortunate. As I said I don't care if it it 1000 people affected, why shouldn't Sega try to help them out....Because it appears not the consumers are dancing to the companies tune.

Again I ask, Would it ruin your day if the company attempted to help all customers? Why are you against them getting assistance?

People aren't against it I don't think, but SI/SEGA have already made their position clear, and complaining about it here isn't going to change anything. Yes it would be nice if everybody could play FM, but SI/SEGA have made a justifiable, sensible, business decision which I agree with.

[pigfacemonkeyman]

Your point is? Do you know he hasnt spoken to someone at SEGA about it? What has that got to do with activating the game by telephone?

What I know is this. http://www.sega.co.uk/retailers/?g=7344

EDIT: No mention of needing internet and steam to activate FM12.

[eddymunster]

I understand that but you still need it at your own house if you own a desktop pc

I have the answer, all you need is;

1. Your PC

2. A car/pushbike with trailer

3. A wheel barrow

4. A diesel generator

5. A wireless dongle.

Where there's a will there's a way.

[greenone]

They did the phone system, no one used it. You must have missed Miles post, ill re-post it for a second time

Nearly 1 in 20 used it, assuming minimum sales of 500 000 units, that's 20,000 people used it or £600 000 quids worth of sales assuming £30 a game.

As the saying goes look after the pennies and the pounds will look after themselves.

[Guest]

Most of this thread now, just seems to be turning into a load of...

I believe you are correct, after 3 working days I don't think there is anything new that can be said & the personal insults appear to be on the increase.

Surely it's time to close this one until SI have an update the few unanswered questions that remain.

[greenone]

A modern PC gamer without the internet is comparable to someone with a record player hating itunes.

Itunes is crap that's why. Music isn't digital it's analogue.

[Wakers]

A modern PC gamer without the internet is comparable to someone with a record player hating itunes.

Alot of people today who have record players are audiophiles, who would likely hate itunes anyway

Try again

[vrisk85]

Who cares if there's 1000's of games? Don't steal them.

If anti-piracy wasn't working then they wouldn't bother with it. But they seem to be bothered with doing it because they know it works.

All it does is cause minor inconvenience to those that actually "crack" the game, those who download it are not affected by anything.

It might slow them down, but virtually every game that that was released has been cracked/pirated.