David Kempshall

A Message On Football Manager 2012 Activation

4,165 posts in this topic

me and my friend, put half each into the game, and he has it on steam and i have the disc verision, as i have to activate using steam will we not be able to do this?

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Just a shame that the 'any colour so long as it's black' is a myth.

There is quite a lot of truth in it. The model T was available in several colours for the first few years of manufacture, but became available only in black from 1913 until 1927 when Ford stopped making it.

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me and my friend, put half each into the game, and he has it on steam and i have the disc verision, as i have to activate using steam will we not be able to do this?

No. The licence didn't allow you to do that before, to be fair.

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me and my friend, put half each into the game, and he has it on steam and i have the disc verision, as i have to activate using steam will we not be able to do this?

If he has installed it through steam then no you wont be able to use it, unless you sign in using his steam details and dont try and play at the same time as him.

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If he has installed it through steam then no you wont be able to use it, unless you sign in using his steam details and dont try and play at the same time as him.

How will Steam be able to tell should his system be offline however?

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I love that the major complaint from people is the principle in having to install third party software. It doesn't actually affect their ability to play or enjoy the game, some probably already use Steam, but it's the principle of the matter and the justification of why it's done that so many are unhappy about. The end result is still the same.

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Cannot see why all the complaints about Steam :confused:

Have been using it for several FM's & other games without any probs :thup:

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How will Steam be able to tell should his system be offline however?

All the info on this is on the steam FAQ, i dont really want to go into details on how to trick the system i'm afraid.

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so you are suggesting SEGA and steam cannot figure out how to protect their product via the activation method?

Why I do think I am. The fact of the matter is that Steam is not, nor never has been, about preventing piracy. It is about selling PC games digitally, and gathering data from those sales to better sell you more games in the future (the second bit exactly like a Tesco clubcard). Perfectly legitimate model, and nothing wrong with using it if it works, but forcing people down that route is a different matter and bad business practice, especially in an industry as dependant on goodwill as gaming.

they are not obliged to release anything to anyone

are you calling SEGA and david, liars? is this just part of the big evil right wing plot to stop theives stealing their game?

As regards the first bit, healthy scepticism demands that we disregard any quantatative argument which does not supply us with any backing figures or proof, kind of like we disregard the crack-pot arguements for the existence of the Spagetthi Flying Monster.

As to your second point, a) I am always wary of marketing-speak, marketing being an industry who's goal is to sell believable lies, and b) tying in with the last sentence, they are giving me no reason to believe them, and reason to disbelieve them, my view of their truthfulness in this issue is valid until I see some sort of data which at least corroborates their arguement.

so you cant afford to buy the game? what are you even whinging about then? seems to me your opinion is irrelevant

You know it is this kind of attitude that will drive away your friends and loved ones. So just because you don't like my arguement you dismiss it as being irrelevant (despite it being thought out, and pretty logical {it may be wrong, but with the paucity of information my view is far more likely to be right}), using the fact that I am being truthful in saying that I can't currently afford the game as a fig leaf to dismiss me, despite nothing I have said being affected by my current poverty.

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"Industry dependent on goodwill"

Care to expand on that at all? Surely its an industry dependent on making money, goodwill is a bonus but nothing else,

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If you read Miles statement properly you'll see he doesn't claim this will prevent the game being cracked, it will delay that and the longer it's delayed the better the bottom line.

He also explained why they can't give figures to support their case, basically it's against corporate law for a member of a listed company to make any statement which may affect the share price drastically, whether some stats would actually do that is irelevant, they just aren't going to risk it.

Also understandably they don't want to give any info which may assist, encourage or inform the hackers of their effectiveness, don't forget that many of these low lifes only do it because they can and get off on the publicity they cause, so saying nothing at least restricts their jerk off in public opportunities.

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Cannot see why all the complaints about Steam :confused:

Have been using it for several FM's & other games without any probs :thup:

I'm sure Steam is great.

I think the issue is, being forced to use a totally unnecessary program to play FM12.

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I'm sure Steam is great.

I think the issue is, being forced to use a totally unnecessary program to play FM12.

Many people (myself included) don't understand why that is an issue. Like I said above, people complaining about the principle of the thing when it doesn't change their game experience.

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I'm sure Steam is great.

I think the issue is, being forced to use a totally unnecessary program to play FM12.

It's now necessary because they've decided it's the best current option, if they didn't do this they'd have to try something else, and after FM09 I have to say that for me the Steam option is positively pain free.

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You've always needed two games. The license for a game only covers one person.
actually you are wrong it does not cover only one person it covers one copy being played but my entire household can play the game on the same computer, so you have that totally wrong, it covers one installation not one person.

and going to steam is not going to stop it being pirated, like others have stated latest games released today are being pirated the same day they are released, so if this is the only reason they have gone to steam they need to rethink that idea. By the way i have already paid for my copy (pre-ordered on steam) but i really dont like using steam. And games don't always get patched straight away either.

So even though i have bought my pre-ordered copy on steam i am still not happy with this solution as with any other game that forces you to use steam. There is no way of beating piracy as there is always someone smarter who can get around any measure a company takes, a sad situation but i believe if you build up a good supporter base most fans will buy the game i for one am one of those i will always buy an original so there are a lot of loyal fans and i do believe for future versions you should just go back to no protection as it will make no difference whatsoever to sales as there will always be pirated versions of games.

So trust us your loyal fans and go back to no protection and we will continue to buy your games.

cheers,

kymsheba :)

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It never had no protection, it just had different sorts, most of which caused more problems than Steam will.

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Christ now we have the people who use steam complaining they have to use steam?!?!!!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!

So trust us your loyal fans and go back to no protection and we will continue to buy your games.

That is the most amusing post in this thread so far, its only taken 25 pages!!

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Many people (myself included) don't understand why that is an issue. Like I said above, people complaining about the principle of the thing when it doesn't change their game experience.

I don't either, but then again - I have internet connection at hand when ever I want and don't own a stationary computer...

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this is the absolute clincher

an amazing stat

those here who are whinging and carrying on really need to take a step into the real world and understand game pubishers and creaters need to protect their property and not have it freely available to thieves

its really not the end of the world to have to activate through steam. there is honestly no strong argument against it that i can see.

get over it. take your medicine and activate like everyone else. its not that hard and youre contributing to securing the long term futire of the game and hopefully this move ensures SI are able to invest plenty more into the game next year

No it's not the clincher at all, for the following reasons;

1. Steam won't stop people getting pirate copies of FM.

2. It will probably not even make it much harder to get a pirated copy.

3. It would really surprise me if 25% of people that usually get an illegal copy would buy a legitimate one anyway, even if there was no way of getting a pirated version at all, so that point is irrelevant.

4. Is there really 4 times as many people playing pirate versions of FM2011 than paying for it? Really? I'd like to see where this figure comes from, how can you really estimate how many people play the game without paying for it. I mean not how many times an illegal version is downloaded, actually how many players.

In terms of a strong argument against, the fact that it must be used in conjunction with 3rd party software that monitors your gaming activity, when there are other ways of doing an online registration.

And finally, what is the strong argument for Steam, over any other online registry system? I will download steam because I want to play FM, but I'm not overly pleased by it.

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That is the most amusing post in this thread so far, its only taken 25 pages!!

Works for paradox interactive

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No i dont think so, the computer you are using will have to be connected to the net once, to activate the game, after that it would never have to be online again.

you could network your netbook to your FM computer and share an internet connection, if they both use the same windows it is very easy to set up.

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A few comments (sorry if covered before, I only read several hundred posts :).

1) SI/SEGA save money by not having to press, package & distribute actual product

2) Steam add to their client base, many of whom (even the skeptical ones) will purchase further games through steam once they have an account

3) Whether we like it or not this is the next phase in gaming, in 5-10 years time when the majority of potential buyers have high speed internet and unlimited downloads it will probably be direct download only.

4) This is part on an industry-wide movement in publishing from 'software as product' to 'software as service' - hence the lack of resale capacity

PS I have used steam for a couple of years with no significant problems an a mobile broadband connection.

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Just want to say thank you for posting this. I notice nobody made a comment on it even though it really supports the "no steam" argument.

I admire Paradox as a company and you can see what they want to do. They want to win customers over and support people who play the game.

"We don't believe pirates are worth our energy, time and passion. Instead we choose to focus on our paying customers by offering them extra services"

They are gaining strong loyalty because they treat people with respect. Sega, on the other hand, are doing what big companies do; bully consumers into acceptance because they focus on being reactive to pirates instead of proactive to their consumers.

As Paradox state clearly:

DRM is quite costly

Most DRM offers no extra value to paying customers

DRM causes a lot of extra support

There is no evidence that DRM actually increases our sales numbers

The best argument against the measures being introduced by Sega without a doubt. Big applause to Paradox (I love Vickie II by the way) :)

This is a company with a long gaming history. Surely what they say must be respected.

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It never had no protection, it just had different sorts, most of which caused more problems than Steam will.
oh come on you know what i meant, i like the idea of you must have the disc in the drive (there that will stop them lol what a joke that was) it would be easier to have no protection and not wasting time trying to get a solution to piracy as there is none all you are doing is wasting resources and time and effort in trying to think up ways of stopping piracy.

Steam will make no difference to loss of sales because of piracy as stated in first post. Did they honestly think people would buy that excuse please we have smarter brains than that. But you will probably lose fans because some people don't like being forced to use steam. And in fact you probably might lose sales and this will do more damage and loss of revenue because of making us use steam.

Also i think they have damaged their reputation a bit already by doing this.

I use steam because i HAVE TO do i like it NO, do i want it NO.

A big bad idea to go down this road and use that pitiful excuse because of protection against piracy STEAM is useless at preventing piracy as is every other method if someone wants to crack it they will, simple as that, save your resources and forget about protection for a game it is not going to work.

cheers,

kymsheba

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Thanks for advice, but this actually means I should buy an AC generator, buy oil, get my desktop outside, connect my notebook to internet, set up connection between it and desktop, log on to steam (will steam leave some trace on notebook?), register, unplugg everything, sell AC generator (with a bit oil left), and go back home to play the game.

On the serious side, this is plain stupid solution from my point of view. I do understand that I am in minority so SEGA doesnt care too much as not a lot of people will not buy the game for this reason, but im sure they have lost my buck and gave me some ideas.

Do you need to run a generator to use your netbook or your internet??

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Just want to say thank you for posting this. I notice nobody made a comment on it even though it really supports the "no steam" argument.

I admire Paradox as a company and you can see what they want to do. They want to win customers over and support people who play the game.

"We don't believe pirates are worth our energy, time and passion. Instead we choose to focus on our paying customers by offering them extra services"

They are gaining strong loyalty because they treat people with respect. Sega, on the other hand, are doing what big companies do; bully consumers into acceptance because they focus on being reactive to pirates instead of proactive to their consumers.

As Paradox state clearly:

DRM is quite costly

Most DRM offers no extra value to paying customers

DRM causes a lot of extra support

There is no evidence that DRM actually increases our sales numbers

The best argument against the measures being introduced by Sega without a doubt. Big applause to Paradox (I love Vickie II by the way) :)

This is a company with a long gaming history. Surely what they say must be respected.

I think you are 100% accurate Paradox Interactive are my favourite company they have the right idea and i always buy their games especially hearts of iron series and they are the best, why more companies don't follow their lead is beyond me they probably have the most loyal fans and supporters in gaming history more companies need to look at their business model and follow suit.

cheers,

kymsheba

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oh come on you know what i meant, i like the idea of you must have the disc in the drive (there that will stop them lol what a joke that was) it would be easier to have no protection and not wasting time trying to get a solution to piracy as there is none all you are doing is wasting resources and time and effort in trying to think up ways of stopping piracy.

Steam will make no difference to loss of sales because of piracy as stated in first post. Did they honestly think people would buy that ecxcuse plese we have smarter brains than that. But you will probably lose fans because some people don't like being forced to use steam. And in fact you probably might lose sales and this will do more damage and loss of revenue becuase of making us use steam.

Also i think they have damaged their reputation a bit already by doing this.

I use steam because i HAVE TO do i like it NO, do i want it NO.

A big bad idea to go down this road and use that pitiful excuse because of protection against piracy STEAM is useless at preventing piracy as is every other method if someone wants to crack it they will, simple as that, save your resources and forget about protection for a game it is not going to work.

cheers,

kymsheba

How does having to install Steam negatively affect your FM playing experience? Are you able to purchase the game, install it, update it and play it successfully?

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People need to just chill. It's a program.

Next people are going to be like OMGZ I HAVE TO USE WINDOWS TO PLAY FOOTBALL MANAGER?!?!?!?!?

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4. Is there really 4 times as many people playing pirate versions of FM2011 than paying for it? Really? I'd like to see where this figure comes from, how can you really estimate how many people play the game without paying for it. I mean not how many times an illegal version is downloaded, actually how many players.

SI must have put tracking software in the game, its the only way. Otherwise they are just guessing.

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How does having to install Steam negatively affect your FM playing experience? Are you able to purchase the game, install it, update it and play it successfully?

There are multiple ways steam can affect you negatively.

1.) if steam is down you cant play the game. And yes it happens. And before you mention offline mode. It works best when you are online.

2.) if steam blocks your account you cant play the game for many days until their customer support fixes the problem. Also happens.

3.) steam decided to die again. Cant play until you fix the steam installation. Usually deleting the clientregistry.blob helps.

4.) Your kid/wife is playing one of the games on steam. Cant play cause steam only allows one connection no matter how many games you have. Not very family friendly.

5.) Dont like the latest patch? Well..you can only play with the latest patch.

6.) New patch is out but you would like to play? Wait until patch is downloaded.

7.) unsupported country? Maybe it will work maybe not. Sucks to be german i guess.

8.) No net connection or capped? We dont care about you.

Pirates? You can download it on the release day from a much faster torrent.

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How does having to install Steam negatively affect your FM playing experience? Are you able to purchase the game, install it, update it and play it successfully?
I don't think the majority of people have a problem with steam they have a problem of being forced to use steam in other words they don't have a choice. As for myself i have already stated i have bought my pre-oredered copy on steam but i don't agree with them forcing me to use steam to play a game of FM12.

Yes i have purchased it on steam whether i get it on the day is still to be seen they did this with DEAD ISLAND and stuffed up by releasing the wrong code version and it was delayed so steam is not reliable in this area.

Yes i probably will be able to install it but i had another game recently once again DEAD ISLAND that was a nightmare to install with registry key not being accepted had to get an answer from steam why this was and they had to do something on their end don't know what so once again steam is not that reliable at this end either.

As for update it well you just read some forums about how updates are not released same day there out i have read dozens of posts about them having to wait up to a week sometimes for steam to offer the update while everyone else just downloads it like normal, so once again steam not reliable in this area either.

So your points are not that good as steam has a history of failing to deliver on these areas.

cheers,

kymsheba

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1 - in offline mode servers are irrelevent

2 - steam will only block your account if you do something wrong and the VAC does not apply to FM so it will NEVER become an issue

3 - in 4 years never had to re-install steam, had to re-install windows twice tho....

4 - so they now make you follow the law, shame that

5 - fair enough

6 - dont need to download patches if you dont want to, set the game not to update automatically and set to offline mode, never updates.

7 - the game cannot be sold in Germany anyway, but as a GERMAN poster has shown you can register the game there, just not buy it through steam

8 - capped net, for a 10mb program?!!???!!

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As for update it well you just read some forums about how updates are not released same day there out i have read dozens of posts about them having to wait up to a week sometimes for steam to offer the update while everyone else just downloads it like normal, so once again steam not reliable in this area either.

So your points are not that good as steam has a history of failing to deliver on these areas.

cheers,

kymsheba

every single FM update has been on steam the second it was on here since they started using steam.

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There are multiple ways steam can affect you negatively.

1.) if steam is down you cant play the game. And yes it happens. And before you mention offline mode. It works best when you are online.

2.) if steam blocks your account you cant play the game for many days until their customer support fixes the problem. Also happens.

3.) steam decided to die again. Cant play until you fix the steam installation. Usually deleting the clientregistry.blob helps.

4.) Your kid/wife is playing one of the games on steam. Cant play cause steam only allows one connection no matter how many games you have. Not very family friendly.

5.) Dont like the latest patch? Well..you can only play with the latest patch.

6.) New patch is out but you would like to play? Wait until patch is downloaded.

7.) unsupported country? Maybe it will work maybe not. Sucks to be german i guess.

8.) No net connection or capped? We dont care about you.

Pirates? You can download it on the release day from a much faster torrent.

perfectly stated steam is not as reliable as people seem to think.

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every single FM update has been on steam the second it was on here since they started using steam.
re read what i said i didn't say FM updates i said updates did not mention FM in that reply, some people need to read slower i think.

cheers,

kymsheba

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SI must have put tracking software in the game, its the only way. Otherwise they are just guessing.

How would that tell them how many people are playing pirated copies? you do insist on your big brother conspiracy theory don't you?:) obviously they know how many legitimate copies were sold, they all had to be activated.

I'd assume the calculation is made by people monitoring sites that provide the copies, so it'll be a definite minimum with an estimated plus.

They may have other ways to get numbers but the whole operation is shrouded in secrecy and is a lot bigger than you'd know from the little that's publicised.

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I don't think the majority of people have a problem with steam they have a problem of being forced to use steam in other words they don't have a choice. As for myself i have already stated i have bought my pre-oredered copy on steam but i don't agree with them forcing me to use steam to play a game of FM12.

Yes i have purchased it on steam whether i get it on the day is still to be seen they did this with DEAD ISLAND and stuffed up by releasing the wrong code version and it was delayed so steam is not reliable in this area.

Yes i probably will be able to install it but i had another game recently once again DEAD ISLAND that was a nightmare to install with registry key not being accepted had to get an answer from steam why this was and they had to do something on their end don't know what so once again steam is not that reliable at this end either.

As for update it well you just read some forums about how updates are not released same day there out i have read dozens of posts about them having to wait up to a week sometimes for steam to offer the update while everyone else just downloads it like normal, so once again steam not reliable in this area either.

So your points are not that good as steam has a history of failing to deliver on these areas.

cheers,

kymsheba

So yes you can still purchase it, yes you can still install it and yes you can still play it?

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re read what i said i didn't say FM updates i said updates did not mention FM in that reply, some people need to read slower i think.

cheers,

kymsheba

ok, but here we are on an FM forum, speaking about steam related to FM, so if all the updates for FM have come on time with steam, whats the issue?

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perfectly stated steam is not as reliable as people seem to think.

everyone of those points except the latest patch one are complete nonsense and are doing nothing but add to the hysteria on here.

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How would that tell them how many people are playing pirated copies? you do insist on your big brother conspiracy theory don't you?:) obviously they know how many legitimate copies were sold, they all had to be activated.

I'd assume the calculation is made by people monitoring sites that provide the copies, so it'll be a definite minimum with an estimated plus.

They may have other ways to get numbers but the whole operation is shrouded in secrecy and is a lot bigger than you'd know from the little that's publicised.

If they don't have accurate figures than don't go on the record and state numbers and such, if they don'y know exactly than they need to NOT say anything in that area where they don'y know they are just making it up.

Cheers,

kymsheba

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There are multiple ways steam can affect you negatively.

1.) if steam is down you cant play the game. And yes it happens. And before you mention offline mode. It works best when you are online.

2.) if steam blocks your account you cant play the game for many days until their customer support fixes the problem. Also happens.

3.) steam decided to die again. Cant play until you fix the steam installation. Usually deleting the clientregistry.blob helps.

4.) Your kid/wife is playing one of the games on steam. Cant play cause steam only allows one connection no matter how many games you have. Not very family friendly.

5.) Dont like the latest patch? Well..you can only play with the latest patch.

6.) New patch is out but you would like to play? Wait until patch is downloaded.

7.) unsupported country? Maybe it will work maybe not. Sucks to be german i guess.

8.) No net connection or capped? We dont care about you.

Pirates? You can download it on the release day from a much faster torrent.

Number 5! It's the only point were you are right! But i still did not loose hope that SI/SEGA/Steam can figure out a way to turn this around. Because, FM is a special case in terms of patches. In other games 100% of the users install the latest patch, but in FM case, their are a good number of users that prefer a older version instead of the latest one.

Would like a word from someone from SI (or Sega), if it was possible to make available not just the latest patch on steam.

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People are still under the impression that offline mode is infallible. It isn't, check the steam forums or do some googling.

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ok, but here we are on an FM forum, speaking about steam related to FM, so if all the updates for FM have come on time with steam, whats the issue?
because there is no guarantee that will happen otherwise all the problems with updates to other games wouldn't occur either, so FM may well have the same issues regarding updates we will just have to wait and see but don't try and suggest it will never happen.

cheers,

kymsheba

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1.) if steam is down you cant play the game. And yes it happens. And before you mention offline mode. It works best when you are online.

Not sure what you mean by "works best when you are online"? It works exactly the same if you're in offline or online mode, doesn't it?

4.) Your kid/wife is playing one of the games on steam. Cant play cause steam only allows one connection no matter how many games you have. Not very family friendly.

You should have separate Steam accounts. And purchase a version of the game for each account. That's what's required.

5.) Dont like the latest patch? Well..you can only play with the latest patch.

If you remain in Offline Mode you won't get the Patches.

6.) New patch is out but you would like to play? Wait until patch is downloaded.

Again Offline Mode and you won't get Patches.

8.) No net connection or capped? We dont care about you.

It's now a requirement of the game, it will be up to you to have sufficient internet connection or download space on your account.

I'm sure you're resourceful enough to sort this out, perhaps using a friends internet connection or something?

Pirates? You can download it on the release day from a much faster torrent.

How do you know? It hasn't been released yet?

I certainly hope you aren't advocating that people wait for the pirated version rather than installing a legitimate version of the game using the methods specified by SI and Sega for playing the game through Steam?

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There are multiple ways steam can affect you negatively.

1.) if steam is down you cant play the game. And yes it happens. And before you mention offline mode. It works best when you are online.

2.) if steam blocks your account you cant play the game for many days until their customer support fixes the problem. Also happens.

3.) steam decided to die again. Cant play until you fix the steam installation. Usually deleting the clientregistry.blob helps.

4.) Your kid/wife is playing one of the games on steam. Cant play cause steam only allows one connection no matter how many games you have. Not very family friendly.

5.) Dont like the latest patch? Well..you can only play with the latest patch.

6.) New patch is out but you would like to play? Wait until patch is downloaded.

7.) unsupported country? Maybe it will work maybe not. Sucks to be german i guess.

8.) No net connection or capped? We dont care about you.

Pirates? You can download it on the release day from a much faster torrent.

1 - in offline mode servers are irrelevent

2 - steam will only block your account if you do something wrong and the VAC does not apply to FM so it will NEVER become an issue

3 - in 4 years never had to re-install steam, had to re-install windows twice tho....

4 - so they now make you follow the law, shame that

5 - fair enough

6 - dont need to download patches if you dont want to, set the game not to update automatically and set to offline mode, never updates.

7 - the game cannot be sold in Germany anyway, but as a GERMAN poster has shown you can register the game there, just not buy it through steam

8 - capped net, for a 10mb program?!!???!!

I can see that you like to be thorough when posting specific responses so I felt you might appreciate it if I pointed out that you have overlooked a small detail.

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If you remain in Offline Mode you won't get the Patches.

Ok Eugene, but imagine this situation. You buy the game in March. After the release of patch number 3. You activate the game, and immediately you'll get patch number 3 in your game.

If it was today, you could install the original version, then download patch number 1, install it, play it! Ok, let go try patch number 2.... and so on.

This is a "feature" that, as it stands, we will loose in the future.

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Eugene, with reference to point 5 your solution does not work, how is a player to know that they do not like a patch & would prefer to to go back a step without actually downloading the latest update, once that is done there is no turning back?

Edit: Too slow

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because there is no guarantee that will happen otherwise all the problems with updates to other games wouldn't occur either, so FM may well have the same issues regarding updates we will just have to wait and see but don't try and suggest it will never happen.

cheers,

kymsheba

so you've sited one game when you had an issue, i have used steam for the 30 odd games i have on my account, each one has updated when it should have, half life, counter strike, fm any of the big titles i have bought, all your doing is scaremongering because one time you had an issue with one game.

Yet again ill say it, in the 3 years steam has released FM they have released the patches the exact same time they were made available on here or any other website. That is the only important stat here, other games do not matter.

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