David Kempshall

A Message On Football Manager 2012 Activation

4,125 posts in this topic

[quote name='leftback in the changing room']Well there was no answer forthcoming from my question about 5 hours ago - "Can we download a patch from any other source rather than Steam's auto update feature" - aside from Ackter giving as honest an answer as he could earlier on to somebody else: 'I don't know'

So let me try another tack: "Can SI/SEGA assure us that when a user activates the game, Steam will not automatically download a patch"?

Because IIRC, people firing up the most recent Total War found themselves downloading a 1GB file when activating. Which might not be an issue for those blessed with superfast broadband connections, but for people on relatively slow connections it's a pain, for people with dowwnload limits it's an expensive mistake, and for people on dial-up it'll be an absolute nightmare. [B]And it will render their purchase unplayable[/B].[/QUOTE]

As long as you set it to offline mode after activation, Steam wont automatically download anything. You can also set it to not automatically update a game

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[quote name='Dune297']So if somebody makes a rather absurd point we aren't allowed to argue against it? What's the point in this discussion then?[/QUOTE]

It's not a discussion when it's just two people shouting "because I say so" at each other.

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[quote name='PW']I think that there is a reason that question hasn't been answered don't you!!!![/QUOTE]

Yes, it's a weekend and the people who know the answers probably aren't at work.

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[quote name='PW']I think that there is a reason that question hasn't been answered don't you!!!![/QUOTE]
I just answered it.

[QUOTE]#1. Steam must be in online mode. If it's in offline mode, you won't be able to download it.
#2. If you like Steam in online mode, but don't want automatic updates, you can simply right click on the game in your library, hit properties, hit updates, and hit "Do not automatically update this game."[/QUOTE]

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[quote name='stevie_G_32201']I can assure you that auto patching CAN be turned off.[/QUOTE]

It can, yes - but if it begins a download before you get to the point that you can turn it off, as leftback suggests, then it could be a problem.

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[quote name='Dune297']I just answered it.[/QUOTE]

No it isn't as simple as you suggest as per the other posts.

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Steam eh? I've had no problems with it and bought both FM2010 and 2011 through it on my computer. It has been easy to use and seems to be the simplest way for me to buy the game as I have constant internet access so it's easy to update etc.

However, if you don't have access to the internet you can't play the game when you buy the boxed copy. That seems a bit off to me.
You don't have a choice of whether to download a 3rd party programme or not. You must download it to play the game and even if you don't notice it's there it is still there. That seems a bit off to me.
Release date last year and the year before was slow going on the Steam servers. Will this happen again?
If the Steam servers are down (which has happened maybe once or twice to me this year) you cannot play the game you paid for even if you've bought a boxed copy.

I don't mind personally as it won't affect the way I buy or play the game but for quite a few people (and I'm not just talking about fairly savvy forum users who have moral objections to allowing 3rd party software onto their computer) this will cause some problems. Is this a risk worth taking? Time will tell I guess.

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[quote name='PW']No it isn't as simple as you suggest as per the other posts.[/QUOTE]
It is that simple. All you do is go to properties -> Updates -> Do Not Automatically Update This Game.

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my copy of FM11 hasent left my disk drive since ive bought the game.. So i don't care about that argument.. when i played the FM11 demo on steam i hated it

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[quote name='Wavelberry']Steam eh? I've had no problems with it and bought both FM2010 and 2011 through it on my computer. It has been easy to use and seems to be the simplest way for me to buy the game as I have constant internet access so it's easy to update etc.

However, if you don't have access to the internet you can't play the game when you buy the boxed copy. That seems a bit off to me.
You don't have a choice of whether to download a 3rd party programme or not. You must download it to play the game and even if you don't notice it's there it is still there. That seems a bit off to me.
Release date last year and the year before was slow going on the Steam servers. Will this happen again?
If the Steam servers are down (which has happened maybe once or twice to me this year) you cannot play the game you paid for even if you've bought a boxed copy.

I don't mind personally as it won't affect the way I buy or play the game but for quite a few people (and I'm not just talking about fairly savvy forum users who have moral objections to allowing 3rd party software onto their computer) this will cause some problems. Is this a risk worth taking? Time will tell I guess.[/QUOTE]

You can play without internet connection...my provider is doing some upgrading and for last two weeks, I more often than not don't have an internet connection...you just start steam in offline mode. You can do the same trick when Steam servers are down. Of course you need the internet and these servers for activation, but after that you're off the hook.

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[quote name='Dune297']It is that simple. All you do is go to properties -> Updates -> Do Not Automatically Update This Game.[/QUOTE]

Here's a screenshot to help.

[IMG]http://img846.imageshack.us/img846/4247/222wo.jpg[/IMG]

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[quote name='Piussi']my copy of FM11 hasent left my disk drive since ive bought the game.. So i don't care about that argument.. when i played the FM11 demo on steam i hated it[/QUOTE]

When we had the last activation balls up by Sega/SI I tried Steam against many peoples advice..........never again.

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[quote name='Piussi']my copy of FM11 hasent left my disk drive since ive bought the game.. So i don't care about that argument.. when i played the FM11 demo on steam i hated it[/QUOTE]
WHS^^

That's why I have multiple driver bays

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I think the problem might be if anyone buys the game in January and the two patches are out and the game starts updating at the moment he registers it...I'm not sure if I can cancel patching at that time.

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[quote name='Dune297']Here's a screenshot to help.

[IMG]http://img846.imageshack.us/img846/4247/222wo.jpg[/IMG][/QUOTE]


That wasn't the question.

The question was "Would any update start when activating the game (ie Patch 1) before you had the chance to select the option you've shown above"

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[quote name='PW']When we had the last activation balls up by Sega/SI I tried Steam against many peoples advice..........never again.[/QUOTE]

So you have a Steam account... :) no, but seriously what is your main concern using Steam?

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[quote name='BayernMB']I think the problem might be if anyone buys the game in January and the two patches are out and the game starts updating at the moment he registers it...I'm not sure if I can cancel patching at that time.[/QUOTE]

Exactly there are issues at times that can make these problems occur, not quite as easy as some would make you believe.

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[quote name='BayernMB']So you have a Steam account... :) no, but seriously what is your main concern using Steam?[/QUOTE]

No it was deleted, and that took a bit of legal savvy to get that done as well.
I've posted alot in last hour so read away can't repeat it all again.

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[quote name='PW']No it was deleted, and that took a bit of legal savvy to get that done as well.
I've posted alot in last hour so read away can't repeat it all again.[/QUOTE]

Well, as someone said...it's a loooooong thread and today it's getting late, so, I'll maybe try to read it tomorrow :)

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[quote name='BayernMB']You can play without internet connection...my provider is doing some upgrading and for last two weeks, I more often than not don't have an internet connection...you just start steam in offline mode. You can do the same trick when Steam servers are down. Of course you need the internet and these servers for activation, but after that you're off the hook.[/QUOTE]

I'm well aware of that. Maybe I wasn't clear. If you don't have internet access and you buy the boxed copy then you won't be able to download Steam first off si what I meant. It makes it very difficult for people who live in student halls/shared houses without internet access or places with dial-up (they still exist) or homes that might not have the internet.

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[quote name='Wavelberry']I'm well aware of that. Maybe I wasn't clear. If you don't have internet access and you buy the boxed copy then you won't be able to download Steam first off si what I meant. It makes it very difficult for people who live in student halls/shared houses without internet access or places with dial-up (they still exist) or homes that might not have the internet.[/QUOTE]

Someone earlier mentioned that the Steam client might be available on the disc, I have no idea if this is true though and it hasn't been confirmed by Sega.

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Going off topic but as no doubt Mods are circling, how do you delete an account on here?
There doesn't seem to be any option in Settings or anything similar that makes it obvious?

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[quote name='Cougar2010']That wasn't the question.

The question was "Would any update start when activating the game (ie Patch 1) before you had the chance to select the option you've shown above"[/QUOTE]
Before you even start installing it you can check it off, assuming you install it online through Steam.

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[quote name='Ackter']Someone earlier mentioned that the Steam client might be available on the disc, I have no idea if this is true though and it hasn't been confirmed by Sega.[/QUOTE]

Would be nice if they had thought of that before announcing it wouldn't it!

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[quote name='PW']Going off topic but as no doubt Mods are circling, how do you delete an account on here?
There doesn't seem to be any option in Settings or anything similar that makes it obvious?[/QUOTE]

Use the "Contact Us" link at the bottom of the forum and ask.

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[quote name='Ackter']Use the "Contact Us" link at the bottom of the forum and ask.[/QUOTE]

Cheers................

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If I'm right, when I put the Deus Ex dvd in, it tried to install Steam even though it was already installed. So I guess it'll be similar with FM.

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[quote name='Wavelberry']I'm well aware of that. Maybe I wasn't clear. If you don't have internet access and you buy the boxed copy then you won't be able to download Steam first off si what I meant. It makes it very difficult for people who live in student halls/shared houses without internet access or places with dial-up (they still exist) or homes that might not have the internet.[/QUOTE]

I agree, that internet is a requirement, but there are ways...you can download steam installer somewhere else and install it at your computer with dial-up internet. Unofrtunately the technology moves on and always someone gets left back...it doesn't help me, that I'ma loyal FIFA or PES player and can't play the latest version without an investment in a new graphics card...

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[quote name='Ackter']Someone earlier mentioned that the Steam client might be available on the disc, I have no idea if this is true though and it hasn't been confirmed by Sega.[/QUOTE]

That would be good but they'd still need to get online to activate. It's an extra hoop to jump through. Easy for myself and others with Broadband internet connections. Not so for others.

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[quote name='Ackter']It can, yes - but if it begins a download before you get to the point that you can turn it off, as leftback suggests, then it could be a problem.[/QUOTE]

Cheers Ackter - that's pretty much exactly the point I'm trying to make.

Thanks to all those who answered, and I appreciate that I can run in offline mode and set my game to not autoupdate, BUT my question refers solely to the first activation. If Brian Poor-Example lives in TinyVillage, Somorset and has no broadband but a low speed dialup connection or pseudo ISDN line setup but works for BigCompany in Bristol with a fast pipe and lax IT regime, he can activate his game online in 5 minutes (allegedly) at home then download patches and updates at work and copy them onto a CD/DVD (or USB stick if the IT system is REALLY lax). However if Steam rolls out the first update when he tries to activate his game, Mr Poor-Example is either leaving his computer on for a couple of days or has a copy of a game he cannot use.

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Easy solution.
Keep playing FM11, use 3rd party updates to keep the game up to date with all relevant transfers.........await SI/Sega to realise foolishness of their ways!

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[quote name='PW']Easy solution.
Keep playing FM11, use 3rd party updates to keep the game up to date with all relevant transfers.........await SI/Sega to realise foolishness of their ways![/QUOTE]
I have an easier one. Get FM12, disregard Steam is even there besides the first time you install it, and enjoy all the great features FM12 has to offer!

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[quote name='Dune297']I have an easier one. Get FM12, disregard Steam is even there besides the first time you install it, and enjoy all the great features FM12 has to offer![/QUOTE]

Go away please if you can't offer anything productive.

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[quote name='PW']Go away please if you can't offer anything productive.[/QUOTE]
You haven't offered anything productive either. No reason why you can't just disregard Steam, as the offline mode and desktop shortcut lets you do that.

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It would be interesting to know how the reaction to this decision measures up to what SI/Sega expected or projected? If they aren't surprised by it, then they must have a lot of faith in their new anti-piracy measures.

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[quote name='Dune297']You haven't offered anything productive either. No reason why you can't just disregard Steam, as the offline mode and desktop shortcut lets you do that.[/QUOTE]

I'm not sure that's the point of those that object to Steam. It's still on their computer even if you don't notice it. It's like if you had a tiny microchip in your hand. Yeah you might not notice it but it doesn't mean it's not there.

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[quote name='Wavelberry']I'm not sure that's the point of those that object to Steam. It's still on their computer even if you don't notice it. It's like if you had a tiny microchip in your hand. Yeah you might not notice it but it doesn't mean it's not there.[/QUOTE]
Why does it matter if it's not effecting anything?

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[quote name='Dune297']Why does it matter if it's not effecting anything?[/QUOTE]

Because people don't want to rely on a third party service to play something they've paid for.

Steam has never been necessary in the past, so it shouldn't be necessary now. It should be a choice.

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It's about personal choice and I have steam but I don't like it in truth, it's a third party source, it has control over your gaming and not just FM, if people like it fine, if people don't so be it, but there is many buyers out there not familiar with Steam, they will be shocked on the day they purchase this game to find out you need to install Steam to do it, expect a backlash on a huge scale, the 16 pages on here from the same old people will only be the tip of the iceberg.

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[quote name='Bicycle']The funniest thing is that the majority of people who pirate games aren't even potential consumers - they have no intention of buying it in the first place. I can't see this as being anything other than SI shooting themselves in the foot.[/QUOTE] This is very true. and most research goes to show this.. The silly thing about all this is how does a pirate copy equal a lost sale if the pers. Simplyon wasnt going to buy it in the first place....Has been said many times before "if you want people to buy your software give it to them at a price which is fair and in a format that does not stop or hinder people from using your software. " In english Si let people use a cd and not have to use steam if they do not want to.... Simple really.

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[quote name='Dune297']And what's your reason for not giving it a shot? How do you know it's not a great program that you'll find useful?[/QUOTE]

Dune297, if you check this and the other thread where the original poll was, you'll find I am a big opponent of the compusory Steam activation.

You'll also note, if you read my posts, I have no personal problem with Steam.

This isn't necessarily about people having bad experiences with Steam. It is a bigger issue for some of us. This is about people being forced to use software they don't want to - it is a matter of principle.

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[quote name='Lord Rowell']Dune297, if you check this and the other thread where the original poll was, you'll find I am a big opponent of the compusory Steam activation.

You'll also note, if you read my posts, I have no personal problem with Steam.

This isn't necessarily about people having bad experiences with Steam. It is a bigger issue for some of us. This is about people being forced to use software they don't want to - it is a matter of principle.[/QUOTE]

He's serving a short ban so he won't be responding tonight.

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[quote name='cynet']SI have been pushed into a corner over this, they are being dictated too as you can well see by the opening post by a Sega member, something you don't usually see on these forums.[/QUOTE]

Well frankly they need to get out of the corner and fight if that really is the case. If one is in that situation, the last thing you ethically do is push someone else (in this case the consumer) into another corner.

No, no excuses for SI. Everyone is responsible for their own actions and behaviour - period.

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Will there be a demo out through Steam of FM 2012? This will be good for a couple of reasons, mainly:

1. People will get an experience of using Steam for the first time and then be able to delete Steam (and not buy the full game) if they don't like it.

2. To see if your computer can handle FM 2012 at all. Because there will be no way of returning your game once you've activated it and find out your computer's too slow, or give it to someone else. (I have a 2GB Vista PC with 256MB graphic card).

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[quote name='Dune297']Here's a screenshot to help.

[IMG]http://img846.imageshack.us/img846/4247/222wo.jpg[/IMG][/QUOTE]

This is known to not 'stick' properly in Steam for some users. I've lost count of the times I set that to No, only for it to update all on its own while I'm not looking.

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[quote name='englandmanager']bye

i've been using steam for 3 years and never had a problem, jesus some people are so paranoid[/QUOTE]

Others have, and are therefore against using it.

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[quote name='leftback in the changing room']Well there was no answer forthcoming from my question about 5 hours ago - "Can we download a patch from any other source rather than Steam's auto update feature" - aside from Ackter giving as honest an answer as he could earlier on to somebody else: 'I don't know'

So let me try another tack: "Can SI/SEGA assure us that when a user activates the game, Steam will not automatically download a patch"?

Because IIRC, people firing up the most recent Total War found themselves downloading a 1GB file when activating. Which might not be an issue for those blessed with superfast broadband connections, but for people on relatively slow connections it's a pain, for people with dowwnload limits it's an expensive mistake, and for people on dial-up it'll be an absolute nightmare. [B]And it will render their purchase unplayable[/B].[/QUOTE]

There is a setting that lets you decide if you want to keep the game up-to date or not, ie if you want the latest patch to download automatically or not.

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[quote name='Ackter']Guys, can we please stop pestering everyone who says they don't like Steam. They're perfectly within their rights to dislike it and don't have to justify that opinion to anyone.[/QUOTE]

Good post. I'm frankly more than fed up with the moderators who are belittling posters who disagree with them.

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If people are just going to go over exactly the same things over and over ad nauseum then this thread might as well be closed.

If you have nothing new to add (I'm struggling to think of anything) then why not all rest on your,laurels for a while.

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