Kriss Posted September 17, 2011 Share Posted September 17, 2011 Or you could post a thread where all the facts are laid out rather than people spreading misinformation about Steam and scaremongering. Better to wait until there's some genuine expertise on the subject available? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TacticalGenius Posted September 17, 2011 Share Posted September 17, 2011 If he does not like Steam or has a technical issue with it will he have an alternative? No Will he be able to return the game for a refund if the above applies? No That is a key part of the problem, if there was a backup function available that does not rely on 3rd party software then this would not be an issue. Steam can be downloaded for free beforehand. Any issues will then show up before a penny is spent. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dune297 Posted September 17, 2011 Share Posted September 17, 2011 If he does not like Steam or has a technical issue with it will he have an alternative? No Will he be able to return the game for a refund if the above applies? No That is a key part of the problem, if there was a backup function available that does not rely on 3rd party software then this would not be an issue. Download it before purchasing? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ackter Posted September 17, 2011 Share Posted September 17, 2011 If he does not like Steam or has a technical issue with it will he have an alternative? No Will he be able to return the game for a refund if the above applies? No That is a key part of the problem, if there was a backup function available that does not rely on 3rd party software then this would not be an issue. If there was a backup function available that SI trusted, they'd use it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scab Posted September 17, 2011 Share Posted September 17, 2011 As has been mentioned earlier: If you fear you'll run into issues with Steam, it may be a good idea to get it right now and try downloading+running one of the many free demos that are on there. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest PW Posted September 17, 2011 Share Posted September 17, 2011 Decision made, not going to buy the game at all. First time in over a decade that I won't. I WILL NOT be made to download Steam just to play a game I have brought. Steam is rubbish in my opinion and a worthless way of trying to tackle piracy. You are forcing people to open an account with steam and to play the game via the Steam set-up which is disgusting and insulting to a consumer that demands choice not a Chinese decision making venture from no doubt Sega not SI. Absolute disgrace and I hope the sales suffer. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kriss Posted September 17, 2011 Share Posted September 17, 2011 Decision made, not going to buy the game at all. First time in over a decade that I won't.I WILL NOT be made to download Steam just to play a game I have brought. Steam is rubbish in my opinion and a worthless way of trying to tackle piracy. You are forcing people to open an account with steam and to play the game via the Steam set-up which is disgusting and insulting to a consumer that demands choice not a Chinese decision making venture from no doubt Sega not SI. Absolute disgrace and I hope the sales suffer. You forgot to add the "loyal customer" bit. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dune297 Posted September 17, 2011 Share Posted September 17, 2011 Decision made, not going to buy the game at all. First time in over a decade that I won't.I WILL NOT be made to download Steam just to play a game I have brought. Steam is rubbish in my opinion and a worthless way of trying to tackle piracy. You are forcing people to open an account with steam and to play the game via the Steam set-up which is disgusting and insulting to a consumer that demands choice not a Chinese decision making venture from no doubt Sega not SI. Absolute disgrace and I hope the sales suffer. What don't you like about Steam? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest PW Posted September 17, 2011 Share Posted September 17, 2011 You forgot to add the "loyal customer" bit. No I didn't go moderate elsewhere. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ackter Posted September 17, 2011 Share Posted September 17, 2011 http://www.totalwar.com/shogun2/steam-faq That's the Steam FAQ from Total War which uses the same system. Now, I'm not saying it'll be exactly the same with FM (because I haven't got any more information than you all do), but it'll be worth a read for people who are unsure about Steam. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest PW Posted September 17, 2011 Share Posted September 17, 2011 What don't you like about Steam? First off Steam has to run to play the game even in offline mode. Secondly I am being forced to apply and have an account with a 3rd party company that in my opinion have absolutely rubbish customer service and have very very debatable privacy concerns. THIS WILL NOT STOP PIRACY, it will not even dent the issue. Another activation complete balls up by SI and Sega. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TacticalGenius Posted September 17, 2011 Share Posted September 17, 2011 Decision made, not going to buy the game at all. First time in over a decade that I won't.I WILL NOT be made to download Steam just to play a game I have brought. Steam is rubbish in my opinion and a worthless way of trying to tackle piracy. You are forcing people to open an account with steam and to play the game via the Steam set-up which is disgusting and insulting to a consumer that demands choice not a Chinese decision making venture from no doubt Sega not SI. Absolute disgrace and I hope the sales suffer. And your opinion is based on what, exactly? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pigfacemonkeyman Posted September 17, 2011 Share Posted September 17, 2011 If I may, a quick question for the moderators. Can moderators 'call time' on other moderators? Cheers xxx Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ackter Posted September 17, 2011 Share Posted September 17, 2011 Guys, can we please stop pestering everyone who says they don't like Steam. They're perfectly within their rights to dislike it and don't have to justify that opinion to anyone. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Invis Posted September 17, 2011 Share Posted September 17, 2011 Disappointing that Steam is required to be honest, and no, this will not combat piracy. Steam is one of the easiest forms of "protection" to circumvent I'm afraid. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
milnerpoint Posted September 17, 2011 Share Posted September 17, 2011 That's the point, you see. He will not miss out, he'll simply use a pirated version (by "he" I mean an average user refusing to succumb to this nonsense). SEGA did the same thing with Total War series and the number of pirate players increased significantly... So having to use a free third party tool will push people to steal, just so they dont have to use it and that theft can be justified because of SI's DRM choice? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest PW Posted September 17, 2011 Share Posted September 17, 2011 And your opinion is based on what, exactly? It is based on my experience, other peoples experiences, and the fact that when I buy a game |I shopuld not be FORCED to download a 3rd party application to activate it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BayernMB Posted September 17, 2011 Share Posted September 17, 2011 What i seriously can't understand from the Pro-Steam side is the fact that they cannot, for whatever reason, simply understand that some people DON'T want to install Steam. How about all the other programmes...why do you agree being forced to use directx...hit ctrl+alt+del and see a list of processes, frame network, flash, java... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevie_G_32201 Posted September 17, 2011 Share Posted September 17, 2011 So having to use a free third party tool will push people to steal, just so they dont have to use it and that theft can be justified because of SI's DRM choice? Well said. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cynet Posted September 17, 2011 Share Posted September 17, 2011 If I may, a quick question for the moderators. Can moderators 'call time' on other moderators?Cheers xxx If only kiss kiss Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SCIAG Posted September 17, 2011 Share Posted September 17, 2011 So having to use a free third party tool will push people to steal, just so they dont have to use it and that theft can be justified because of SI's DRM choice? It doesn't justify it, stop putting words in people's mouths. It's just that if you want people to do something (in this case, buy the game), you should make it as easy as possible for them to do that. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
scriba Posted September 17, 2011 Share Posted September 17, 2011 As has been mentioned earlier: If you fear you'll run into issues with Steam, it may be a good idea to get it right now and try downloading+running one of the many free demos that are on there. This. Just try it, it won't close you the Heaven's Gates. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dune297 Posted September 17, 2011 Share Posted September 17, 2011 First off Steam has to run to play the game even in offline mode.Secondly I am being forced to apply and have an account with a 3rd party company that in my opinion have absolutely rubbish customer service and have very very debatable privacy concerns. THIS WILL NOT STOP PIRACY, it will not even dent the issue. Another activation complete balls up by SI and Sega. Why do you care if Steam runs, it'll hardly be noticeable? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
FM1000 Posted September 17, 2011 Share Posted September 17, 2011 I dont understand how SI can claim that this is for the benefits of the loyal paying customers. Like any other software this game will be pirated, and so the people who will not pay for the game will be able to play it without Steam but those who do pay are forced to use Steam. It makes no sense. It would only make sense if SI took money from Steam for this so that's the only explanation. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ackter Posted September 17, 2011 Share Posted September 17, 2011 Guys, can we please stop pestering everyone who says they don't like Steam. They're perfectly within their rights to dislike it and don't have to justify that opinion to anyone. Ok, if people don't adhere to this I'm going to have to start handing out infractions. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt_no_7 Posted September 17, 2011 Share Posted September 17, 2011 Guys, can we please stop pestering everyone who says they don't like Steam. They're perfectly within their rights to dislike it and don't have to justify that opinion to anyone. Exactly! Besides the issue isn't why we dislike Steam, the issue is we dislike having our options limited. I don't hate Steam, i have nothing against it, i just don't want it on my PC, i refuse to download it and deal with it even if it is just once. Then again with these things it's never just once. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
milnerpoint Posted September 17, 2011 Share Posted September 17, 2011 It doesn't justify it, stop putting words in people's mouths. It's just that if you want people to do something (in this case, buy the game), you should make it as easy as possible for them to do that. But thats not the issue here, the issue is people refusing to get the game because of steam, which if you have the internet is the easiest thing in the world, but yet people seem to suggest that by enforcing steam your encouraging theft and by the tone of the posts it seems people think this is acceptable enough, because hey its SI's fault, they drove these people to steal, so they can pay for it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted September 17, 2011 Share Posted September 17, 2011 Dune, non Steam users DO NOT need to justify to you or anyone else why that decision has been made. This thread should have gone down the route of, I'm happy with steam , I'm not happy steam sp why isn't there a backup/second option. Just my opinion - Edit: Looks like Ackter beat me to it & he has more power than I do. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest PW Posted September 17, 2011 Share Posted September 17, 2011 Why do you care if Steam runs, it'll hardly be noticeable? Because I know what data Steam get, what they use it for, and for christs sake people use your intelligence. Why are Sega/SI going down this road..........are they really really worried about the piracy issue..............or can they see the cash cow coming. As a consumer I want choice not a dictatorship, and I will vote by not buying FM again until it changes. Won't make any difference to money grabbing Sega and ever increasing SI which has gone completely from its roots but sometimes you gotta do what ya gotta do. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dune297 Posted September 17, 2011 Share Posted September 17, 2011 Guys, can we please stop pestering everyone who says they don't like Steam. They're perfectly within their rights to dislike it and don't have to justify that opinion to anyone. If they don't like Steam they obviously have a problem with it. And I'm curious of the problem so I can help myself as well as them figure out this problem and perhaps change their attitude towards it so they'd get to enjoy a game they love. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cynet Posted September 17, 2011 Share Posted September 17, 2011 You could be really cynical and claim that it's a direct traffic towards Steams catalogue of games they have for sale and it's a joint promotion to promote Steam while Sega take a cut in the profits thrown in for good measure, heavens forbid if this was the case, wink wink nudge nudge. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BayernMB Posted September 17, 2011 Share Posted September 17, 2011 Exactly! Besides the issue isn't why we dislike Steam, the issue is we dislike having our options limited. I don't hate Steam, i have nothing against it, i just don't want it on my PC, i refuse to download it and deal with it even if it is just once. Then again with these things it's never just once. OK you dislike it, refuse to download it, no problem - your choice. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ackter Posted September 17, 2011 Share Posted September 17, 2011 Because I know what data Steam get, what they use it for, and for christs sake people use your intelligence.Why are Sega/SI going down this road..........are they really really worried about the piracy issue..............or can they see the cash cow coming. As a consumer I want choice not a dictatorship, and I will vote by not buying FM again until it changes. Won't make any difference to money grabbing Sega and ever increasing SI which has gone completely from its roots but sometimes you gotta do what ya gotta do. SI are genuinely concerned about piracy - it has already destroyed one of their products in Eastside Hockey Manager (RIP ) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cougar2010 Posted September 17, 2011 Share Posted September 17, 2011 How about all the other programmes...why do you agree being forced to use directx...hit ctrl+alt+del and see a list of processes, frame network, flash, java... There is a difference between programmes needed for others to work and those that aren't. Steam is not needed at a technical level for FM to function. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest PW Posted September 17, 2011 Share Posted September 17, 2011 SI are genuinely concerned about piracy - it has already destroyed one of their products in Eastside Hockey Manager (RIP ) Piracy is an issue no doubt but this isn't the solution and believe me they are destroying their own product with this decision. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dune297 Posted September 17, 2011 Share Posted September 17, 2011 Because I know what data Steam get, what they use it for, and for christs sake people use your intelligence. You mean this data? It's completely anonymous. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevie_G_32201 Posted September 17, 2011 Share Posted September 17, 2011 Ok, if people don't adhere to this I'm going to have to start handing out infractions. Are you serious? Acting in that manner for asking a simple question? What has this forum become. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ackter Posted September 17, 2011 Share Posted September 17, 2011 Piracy is an issue no doubt but this isn't the solution and believe me they are destroying their own product with this decision. There is no solution to piracy, SI are hoping this makes enough of a difference to make it worthwhile. It might, it might not. The only way to tell is with time. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BayernMB Posted September 17, 2011 Share Posted September 17, 2011 Because I know what data Steam get, what they use it for, and for christs sake people use your intelligence.Why are Sega/SI going down this road..........are they really really worried about the piracy issue..............or can they see the cash cow coming. As a consumer I want choice not a dictatorship, and I will vote by not buying FM again until it changes. Won't make any difference to money grabbing Sega and ever increasing SI which has gone completely from its roots but sometimes you gotta do what ya gotta do. Could you please tell me what they did worth my data, since I'm a satisfied Steam customer since 2008... And yes, as a consumer you have a choice, nobody forces you to buy this game. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ackter Posted September 17, 2011 Share Posted September 17, 2011 Are you serious? Acting in that manner for asking a simple question? What has this forum become. There's a difference between asking one question and jumping on every single user who says they dislike a product. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest PW Posted September 17, 2011 Share Posted September 17, 2011 There is no solution to piracy, SI are hoping this makes enough of a difference to make it worthwhile.It might, it might not. The only way to tell is with time. Just like the last time they had the bright idea of activation and then produced the greatest **** up of all times in releasing a game that many couldn't activate. Piracy is not the main reason for it..........money is. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BayernMB Posted September 17, 2011 Share Posted September 17, 2011 There is a difference between programmes needed for others to work and those that aren't.Steam is not needed at a technical level for FM to function. sorry mate, but they are 3rd party programms...and now you'll need it to run FM - how does it matter if it+s on a technical level or any other...it's something which runs in the background. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest PW Posted September 17, 2011 Share Posted September 17, 2011 Could you please tell me what they did worth my data, since I'm a satisfied Steam customer since 2008...And yes, as a consumer you have a choice, nobody forces you to buy this game. Check out their terms and conditions, ask any computer literate lawyer, and then decide if being FORCED to use 3rd party software that the game DOESN'T need to run the game is worthwhile. Of course I have a choice and its been made. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevie_G_32201 Posted September 17, 2011 Share Posted September 17, 2011 There's a difference between asking one question and jumping on every single user who says they dislike a product. People are well within their right to love or hate steam, the forums are here for discussion of opinions. I've seen nothing offensive, racist or threatening, There is nothing wrong with banter. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rancer890 Posted September 17, 2011 Share Posted September 17, 2011 Piracy is an issue no doubt but this isn't the solution and believe me they are destroying their own product with this decision. Steam isn't the ideal solution but I think that if EHM was on Steam SI would still be producing it (better than that terrible system called elicense...). I don't think there will be a massive drop in sales though tbh even with Steam. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cougar2010 Posted September 17, 2011 Share Posted September 17, 2011 sorry mate, but they are 3rd party programms...and now you'll need it to run FM - how does it matter if it+s on a technical level or any other...it's something which runs in the background. I get the impression you're intelligent enough to know the difference, I'll just leave it at that. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BayernMB Posted September 17, 2011 Share Posted September 17, 2011 Check out their terms and conditions, ask any computer literate lawyer, and then decide if being FORCED to use 3rd party software that the game DOESN'T need to run the game is worthwhile.Of course I have a choice and its been made. I thinkn that Terms and Conditions for FM12 aren't out yet, and I'm certain that you can't apply the ones from previous versions. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cynet Posted September 17, 2011 Share Posted September 17, 2011 Just like the last time they had the bright idea of activation and then produced the greatest **** up of all times in releasing a game that many couldn't activate.Piracy is not the main reason for it..........money is. Of course it's about money and piracy second, promoting a site which sells games including yours it's all about linking with promoting. You have to sign up and see all the spam what comes with it like oh we have Civ 5 for 12.99, you get the picture, it's ramming there services down your throat. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest PW Posted September 17, 2011 Share Posted September 17, 2011 Steam isn't the ideal solution but I think that if EHM was on Steam SI would still be producing it (better than that terrible system called elicense...). I don't think there will be a massive drop in sales though tbh even with Steam. Probably not a massive drop but people need to realise the decision being made is FORCING them to use a 3rd party application that the game DOESN'T need to run..............that this decision is unlikely to even dent piracy..........that the reason is money not piracy..........and that everyone that does buy will no doubt in a few years be forced to purchase the game via Steam only and for an inflated price. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ackter Posted September 17, 2011 Share Posted September 17, 2011 I thinkn that Terms and Conditions for FM12 aren't out yet, and I'm certain that you can't apply the ones from previous versions. These are the T&C for Steam: http://store.steampowered.com/subscriber_agreement/ The FM2012 ones will be similar to those of FM2011. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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