David Kempshall

A Message On Football Manager 2012 Activation

4,125 posts in this topic

[quote name='Snaus']And I guess that is done locally between the Steam software and the game? I.e. it won't check it online? As per the examples that you can play offline whenever you don't have a connection?[/QUOTE]

Yes, after the first time it does it offline.

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[quote name='cynet']Really don't understand why bother releasing a DVD disc to release FM12 when it will be a digital connection to activate it, seem's pointless in my eyes, think how many trees you can now save by not printing the DVD case artwork :p[/QUOTE]

Because FM is a large game and a lot of people have download limits.

I double my download limit every month as it is :o

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[quote name='cynet']Really don't understand why bother releasing a DVD disc to release FM12 when it will be a digital connection to activate it, seem's pointless in my eyes, think how many trees you can now save by not printing the DVD case artwork :p[/QUOTE]

Think of how many poeple will start losing jobs when places like GAME start closing becuase the gaming world is moving online

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[quote name='Dune297']And what's your reason for not giving it a shot? How do you know it's not a great program that you'll find useful?[/QUOTE]

I have already downloaded Steam before, don't find it useful at all thank you.

Look, this has NOTHING to do with Steam.
It could be ANY SOFTWARE at all....the point is I DO NOT WANT TO HAVE TO DOWNLOAD 3RD PARTY SOFTWARE JUST TO RUN MY LEGALLY PURCHASED COPY OF FM, WHY SHOULD I???

Also, I hate having ANYTHING else running on my PC when I'm playing FM, only the basics run, but with this, I HAVE to have Steam running, I don't want this either.

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[quote name='pigfacemonkeyman']And you have a blinkered view. If you can get past the fact that, for some people, it is nothing to do with it being Steam, you might begin to understand.[/QUOTE]

And your being unreasonalbe about it all, you want an ipod you need itunes, you want FM you need steam, you have the choice, if your not happy take your buisness elsewhere, but going on and on about this is pointless, the decision is made, it is happening, either get on board or accept your going to miss out this year.

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one more question, from someone who does not understand anything about it, would not be possible to SI to arrange an system to authenticate the game without the need to install another software (in this case steam).

For example making the authentication via a web page ...

Is this system the only trustworthy?

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[quote name='Chris21']Thanks for the responses guys, still seems unfair to me. Not gonna be stupid and say 'I'm not buying the game now blah blah blah' but for someone like myself who has been playing the game for 10+ years and my brother for around 5+ years to have to suffer because of criminals is just ridiculous. I don't blame SI but I'm not happy about this, no issues with Steam either, I quite like using Steam for myself but now we need two accounts, two codes and two games in the same house? Madness but nevermind.[/QUOTE]
Officially you would be counted as one of those "criminals" as one of you has been playing a game which you have not payed for :P

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[quote name='Keyzer Soze']one more question, from someone who does not understand anything about it, would not be possible to SI to arrange an system to authenticate the game without the need to install another software (in this case steam).

For example making the authentication via a web page ...

Is this system the only trustworthy?[/QUOTE]

That would be a much better solution, so then people without the internet can just pop into the library with the manual and enter the code or for those with internet on phones can do the same.

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[quote name='tlm_77']I have already downloaded Steam before, don't find it useful at all thank you.

Look, this has NOTHING to do with Steam.
It could be ANY SOFTWARE at all....the point is I DO NOT WANT TO HAVE TO DOWNLOAD 3RD PARTY SOFTWARE JUST TO RUN MY LEGALLY PURCHASED COPY OF FM, WHY SHOULD I???

Also, I hate having ANYTHING else running on my PC when I'm playing FM, only the basics run, but with this, I HAVE to have Steam running, I don't want this either.[/QUOTE]
So you won't get a game you enjoy just because of something that will be running in the background that won't even have an effect on you or your performance.

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[quote name='Dune297']The fact is you won't even have to deal with Steam besides the ONE time you install it and open it for FM12. What was your reason for not liking it by the way?[/QUOTE]

So i won't have to deal with Steam.... But i will? I'm not having a go or trying to start an arguement but even if i have to deal with it once i'm still having to deal with it. The reason i don't want it is because i found it to be an utter pain in the arse, the most pointless creation since Justin Bieber (oh how i hate him) and that's saying something!

I know some people don't mind and thats fine, use it once, twice, marry it for all i care, i have no problem with that if they like the features and want to use it then fine, go for it. What i have a problem with is having to install something i flat out don't want in order to get something i really do want.

It doesn't matter why i don't like it, i know instinct in most people will dictate that as soon as my reason is given they will try to counter it with an argument why i should use it. No, simple as, i WILL NOT USE IT. The reason is pointless, if people don't want to do something they will not do it.

You can lead a horse to water.....

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[quote name='milnerpoint']And your being unreasonalbe about it all, you want an ipod you need itunes, you want FM you need steam, you have the choice, [/QUOTE]
Actually, you don't need iTunes for an iPod to work, it's just most people use it. There's a lovely piece of software called iShuffle which allows you to use an iPod like any other MP3 player, and other media players such as Spotify can do the same over elaborate synching job as iTunes. Similarly, with FM09 users could activate via Steam, via Uniloc, via telephone or via digital download. With FM10+11, users could activate via Steam, digitally download the game, or keep the disk in. With FM12, suddenly we can't digitally download (except via Steam) and we can't just keep the disk in?

Forcing customers to use a program they don't wish to use and inconviencing them isn't good customer service. SI have admitted that they don't think this will totally stop piracy. Ergo, it is punishing the paying customers and not the pirates.

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[quote name='The Welsh Lad']That would be a much better solution, so then people without the internet can just pop into the library with the manual and enter the code or for those with internet on phones can do the same.[/QUOTE]

So didn't SI go that way? Is it more secure the "steam way"?

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[quote name='Keyzer Soze']one more question, from someone who does not understand anything about it, would not be possible to SI to arrange an system to authenticate the game without the need to install another software (in this case steam).

For example making the authentication via a web page ...

Is this system the only trustworthy?[/QUOTE]

They've been trying for years to find the best solution - as things stand they believe that Steam is the best chance they have of combating piracy this time around.

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[quote name='Ackter']Yes, after the first time it does it offline.[/QUOTE]

Thx :).

They should bring out a Steam Lite then. That only starts up to do the checking and then shuts off again...

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[quote name='The Welsh Lad']Think of how many poeple will start losing jobs when places like GAME start closing becuase the gaming world is moving online[/QUOTE]

Very true indeed, saddens me that they have taken this route as it goes against the grain with regards to purchasing PC games, you wont be getting games like COD or Battlefield 3 going down this route, but maybe because there sales are 5 million tops so might be a reason they are not bothered, but sometimes selling enough ain't enough for some companies.

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[quote name='Keyzer Soze']one more question, from someone who does not understand anything about it, would not be possible to SI to arrange an system to authenticate the game without the need to install another software (in this case steam).

For example making the authentication via a web page ...

Is this system the only trustworthy?[/QUOTE]
If there was another authentification system that met their needs, SI would have chosen to use it. As it is, pretty much every other option is either more restrictive, not secure enough, or no longer exists.

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[quote name='Ackter']They've been trying for years to find the best solution - as things stand they believe that Steam is the best chance they have of combating piracy this time around.[/QUOTE]
Ackter if they had done there homework and found that nearly most games on Steam have been pirated and have been illegally downloaded, so it doesn't really cut the mustard.

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[quote name='pigfacemonkeyman']What about the acquisition of Steam? FM updates? Steam updates?[/QUOTE]

Steam ( iirc ) is a very small program that takes little time to download, if you set it to offline mode the the FM/Steam updates wont happen because t wont be connected to the internet, of course you will want the FM updates anyway, but you dont need to do it via steam

[QUOTE]And you know this how?[/QUOTE]

i later corrected myself by saying its pretty unlikely, unless you have access to Valves accounts and know something noone else does of course

[QUOTE]Would you also be interested to know [I]where[/I] they are? You are assuming a lot when you say that people without internet access won't be reading this! Friends, family, school, work, etc etc.[/QUOTE]

then they have access to the internet one way or another

[QUOTE]You clearly don't accept this or you haven't read the thread properly, because you are calling someone, "too stubborn/lazy to go to a bit of effort", who posted earlier that he had had a bad experience with Steam in the past.

Despite the username, I am not pig-headed, and you will need to clarify what the change is that I am unable to accept, for me to comment.

I have never had a problem with Steam and I am unlikely to ever have one as I will not be using Steam for anything.

Separate to that, on [I]Principle [/I]I will not be forced to download and run any third party programme. If that equates to stubbornness and laziness in your mind then so be it.
It will cost me, but I believe it will also cost SI/Sega one purchase price of FM12. Not able to play a game versus Principles, no contest.[/QUOTE]

Except your principles ( on this particular occasion ) are wrong ( in my opinion of course ) if you had an actual reason for not wanting to use steam ( like Valve ripped you off over something or someone stole your Steam details and you lost some money ) then yh, i could understand it maybe, but you say you never have.

Not downloading a third party application that will not harm you in any way and have very, very little impact on you or your pc, causing you to miss out on a game you enjoy playing ( i assume anyway :D ) with the only reason being your "principles", is being stubborn and pig-headed.

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[quote name='cynet']Very true indeed, saddens me that they have taken this route as it goes against the grain with regards to purchasing PC games, you wont be getting games like COD or Battlefield 3 going down this route, but maybe because there sales are 5 million tops so might be a reason they are not bothered, but sometimes selling enough ain't enough for some companies.[/QUOTE]
COD is Steamworks and Battlefield 3 requires Origin. No difference here. Sorry if I don't understand what you're saying.

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[quote name='SCIAG']If there was another authentification system that met their needs, SI would have chosen to use it. As it is, pretty much every other option is either more restrictive, not secure enough, or no longer exists.[/QUOTE]
SI have been pushed into a corner over this, they are being dictated too as you can well see by the opening post by a Sega member, something you don't usually see on these forums.

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[quote name='Dune297']COD is Steamworks and Battlefield 3 requires Origin. No difference here. Sorry if I don't understand what you're saying.[/QUOTE]

Playing the single player you don't need activation, the multiplayer side you do.

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[quote name='milnerpoint']And your being unreasonalbe about it all, you want an ipod you need itunes, you want FM you need steam, you have the choice, if your not happy take your buisness elsewhere, but going on and on about this is pointless, the decision is made, it is happening, either get on board or [B]accept your going to miss out this year[/B].[/QUOTE]

That's the point, you see. He will not miss out, he'll simply use a pirated version (by "he" I mean an average user refusing to succumb to this nonsense). SEGA did the same thing with Total War series and the number of pirate players increased significantly...

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[quote name='cynet']Very true indeed, saddens me that they have taken this route as it goes against the grain with regards to purchasing PC games, you wont be getting games like COD or Battlefield 3 going down this route, but maybe because there sales are 5 million tops so might be a reason they are not bothered, but sometimes selling enough ain't enough for some companies.[/QUOTE]

I know what you mean about selling enough isn't enough, going off from pc games, I used to work for SportsDirect.com in the high street the company would make like 190M profit and the week they tell everyone the managers would get an email saying they have to cut hours every year they are trying to run on less and less staff to push profit margins up regardless of customer service.

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[quote name='Dune297']COD is Steamworks and Battlefield 3 requires Origin. No difference here. Sorry if I don't understand what you're saying.[/QUOTE]

He's on about going down online route only no boxed games

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[quote name='cynet']Playing the single player you don't need activation, the multiplayer side you do.[/QUOTE]
COD's Steamworks works the same way as FM's. Not sure about BF3.

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[quote name='mrstef']can someone from SI tell me what im going to do about not having working internet access?

I take it im now going to miss out

Will you pay for my laptop to be fixed please. Just send me a cheque please[/QUOTE]

Well, I don't think SI is responsible for your laptop as there are minimum requirements for each game...I could also say "SI please send me a check to buy some RAM"...

But you stated that you have a laptop...perhaps you can carry it (yes, you can do that with laptops) and plug it somewhere where you have internet access, activate the game with Steam and from there on you san start Steam in offline mode.

Problem solved :)

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Why is it that the poll question threads have all been shut?

Created one as the other two were closed, one was getting rather heated which is fair enough but looking at the results its very divided in for and against, seems this is a very dangerous way to go right now judging by peoples feelings.

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[quote name='cynet']SI have been pushed into a corner over this, they are being dictated too as you can well see by the opening post by a Sega member, something you don't usually see on these forums.[/QUOTE]

Still seeing conspiracy theories everywhere then:D DRM is always announced by Sega, last year it was Matt, it's decided by consultation and yes Sega probably have final say.

That could of course be something to do with them owning SI.

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[quote name='cynet']Why is it that the poll question threads have all been shut?

Created one as the other two were closed, one was getting rather heated which is fair enough but looking at the results its very divided in for and against, seems this is a very dangerous way to go right now judging by peoples feelings.[/QUOTE]

because they had the exact same discussions that were being done in here, however I don't know why a poll has not been added

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[quote name='RBKalle']With the boxed copy, I pay/paid for the game itself...


The license thing is just more BS... The whole digital media thing is a complete rip-off, especially if I'm going to pay the license as much, or more, than the actual copy...

Paying a ticket to watch a movie at the theater ONCE doesn't and shouldn't cost me as much as the DVD or the Blue-ray release...


Anyway, fine... I'm not going to buy FM2012 because I don't want to register on Steam and don't want to have Steam running on my pc every time I want to play MY COPY of the game...

If I wanted to install and run Steam, I'd have bought the (license of the) game on Steam this year too...


Is it so difficult to understand it's a matter of principle for many of us, rather than a matter of technical limitations?


Would you be equally supportive if you'd have to set up a Google account, install and keep Google Chrome running every time you wanted to use Google Maps or Google Earth?!


Basically we can't play FM without Steam. And no, it's not like having to install DirectX or something similar... There are no technical reasons behind that decision, just financial/political ones.

Something I'm not going to knuckle under to. And I sincerely hope it'll be many of us.[/QUOTE]

The main point of FM doing this is because SI is trying to max their profits (Which will go in researching, licensing and etc) and the way to make certain of that is to make them to register with Steam to ensure they aren't going to piracy the game which will obviously hurt SI's pocket. This is understandable so why is it so hard to understand?

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[quote name='cynet']Why is it that the poll question threads have all been shut?

Created one as the other two were closed, one was getting rather heated which is fair enough but looking at the results its very divided in for and against, seems this is a very dangerous way to go right now judging by peoples feelings.[/QUOTE]

If you read the whole of the two which were closed you'll see why, basically they just turn into a copy of this one.

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[quote name='cms186']Not downloading a third party application that will not harm you in any way and have very, very little impact on you or your pc, causing you to miss out on a game you enjoy playing ( i assume anyway :D ) with the only reason being your "principles", is being stubborn and pig-headed.[/QUOTE]

spot on there cms

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[quote name='SazoJohnno']The main point of FM doing this is because SI is trying to max their profits (Which will go in researching, licensing and etc) and the way to make certain of that is to make them to register with Steam to ensure they aren't going to piracy the game which will obviously hurt SI's pocket. This is understandable so why is it so hard to understand?[/QUOTE]

What bit don't you understand, piracy will not be stopped because of Steam activation, prove to us that it will stop all piracy, it wont, even Steam has a hack tool where you can download all the games for nothing, so what does that tell you about Steam as a reliable source.

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[quote name='Kriss']If you read the whole of the two which were closed you'll see why, basically they just turn into a copy of this one.[/QUOTE]

A poll Kriss would give the company a whole picture of results with regards to the way it's going, it's a democratic way of result telling.

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[quote name='Dune297']He is just talking about the start-up time in that case.


Because the company is one of the richest in the gaming industry. It's simply not going to happen.


You have never had a problem with it and [B]you are bashing it like this[/B]? At least give it a try before all the negative comments.[/QUOTE]

It's things like this, that require correcting, that is causing people like myself to incur the wrath of certain moderators. Please tell me precisely how I did this. Failing that, please help me understand how you came to think this is what I did. :confused:

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[quote name='cynet']A poll Kriss would give the company a whole picture of results with regards to the way it's going, it's a democratic way of result telling.[/QUOTE]

No, a survey of all users (not just the tiny minority who post on here) a few weeks after release would tell them how it's going (plus their sales figures of course)
A survey on here has curiosity value and not much else.

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[quote name='Kriss']No, a survey of all users (not just the tiny minority who post on here) a few weeks after release would tell them how it's going (plus their sales figures of course)
A survey on here has curiosity value and not much else.[/QUOTE]
Disagree :p

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[quote name='cynet']Disagree :p[/QUOTE]

You always do and you're always wrong:p

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[quote name='cynet']What bit don't you understand, piracy will not be stopped because of Steam activation, prove to us that it will stop all piracy, it wont, even Steam has a hack tool where you can download all the games for nothing, so what does that tell you about Steam as a reliable source.[/QUOTE]

No-one is naiive enough to think that piracy can be stopped - but it can be fought.

If this measure is enough to make even a small percentage of pirates actually buy the game then it will drastically increase the amount of resources SI will have at their disposal.

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steam is a good option have purchased from them for last couple of years with no problems. so if this helps si combat piracy.
i think to connect to internet once to activate game is not much of a hassle for the paying customer.
it also means for once we will be playing the game on release date as well.

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Read and posted in this thread throughout the day and there has been such a negative impact to the announcement, will SI/Sega bother to listen to loyal customers who don't want to play the game through Steam?? I think SI would have defininitely listened to people hear on the community, sadly I don't see the powers that be at Sega listening which is a shame.

The bottom line is piracy will still occur even with steam therefore it is difficult to believe that sales will increase forcing people to use steam if they want to play FM2012, I would think the opposite will occur, surely using the same thing as last year is the best all round solution, use Steam if you want to or have DVD in the drive and not use steam, that caters for both sets of customers, to do what your doing this year makes no sense whatsoever, especially at a time when the PC market for games is dwindling fast, yes, partly due to piracy it has to be said.

Sadly when customers feedback was important a few years back, in this community, now it is a case of sticking two fingers up to those of us that are unhappy with the decision that has been made. It won't be changed and that will mean some long standing customers will no longer buy the game.

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[quote name='cms186']Steam ( iirc ) is a very small program that takes little time to download, if you set it to offline mode the the FM/Steam updates wont happen because t wont be connected to the internet, of course you will want the FM updates anyway, but you dont need to do it via steam



i later corrected myself by saying its pretty unlikely, unless you have access to Valves accounts and know something noone else does of course



then they have access to the internet one way or another



Except your principles ( on this particular occasion ) are wrong ( in my opinion of course ) if you had an actual reason for not wanting to use steam ( like Valve ripped you off over something or someone stole your Steam details and you lost some money ) then yh, i could understand it maybe, but you say you never have.

Not downloading a third party application that will not harm you in any way and have very, very little impact on you or your pc, causing you to miss out on a game you enjoy playing ( i assume anyway :D ) with the only reason being your "principles", is being stubborn and pig-headed.[/QUOTE]

See Post #1357, second paragraph.

Cheers
xxx

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[quote name='data6930']Read and posted in this thread throughout the day and there has been such a negative impact to the announcement, will SI/Sega bother to listen to loyal customers who don't want to play the game through Steam?? I think SI would have defininitely listened to people hear on the community, sadly I don't see the powers that be at Sega listening which is a shame.

The bottom line is piracy will still occur even with steam therefore it is difficult to believe that sales will increase forcing people to use steam if they want to play FM2012, I would think the opposite will occur, surely using the same thing as last year is the best all round solution, use Steam if you want to or have DVD in the drive and not use steam, that caters for both sets of customers, to do what your doing this year makes no sense whatsoever, especially at a time when the PC market for games is dwindling fast, yes, partly due to piracy it has to be said.

Sadly when customers feedback was important a few years back, in this community, now it is a case of sticking two fingers up to those of us that are unhappy with the decision that has been made. It won't be changed and that will mean some long standing customers will no longer buy the game.[/QUOTE]

Well said buddy :)

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[quote name='Ackter']No-one is naiive enough to think that piracy can be stopped - but it can be fought.

If this measure is enough to make even a small percentage of pirates actually buy the game then it will drastically increase the amount of resources SI will have at their disposal.[/QUOTE]

I dont get it. Why do you think a steam only game would decrease piracy? Its not a good copy protection mechanism. I would even go as far as to say its probably the worst of the all. The game will be available on torrent sites before most people are able to download it from Steam servers.

Its only going to increase piracy IMO. A lot of people are going to boycott Steam and im pretty sure a good chunk of them will still want to play the game one way or the other.

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[quote name='Ackter']No-one is naiive enough to think that piracy can be stopped - but it can be fought.

If this measure is enough to make even a small percentage of pirates actually buy the game then it will drastically increase the amount of resources SI will have at their disposal.[/QUOTE]

Pirates are pirates because they enjoy pirating. Its what they do. We enjoy playing the game, they enjoy pirating it. They are not going to buy a game they have no interest in. This is a pointless exercise that only hurts SIs existing customers.

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I'm not too happy about 'Having' to download Steam to play the game, especially when I'm buying the Boxed version.

Will a sticky be provided here on how to download and install Steam, and then to install the game through Steam?

Steve

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i re Installed Football Manager 2011 Through Steam.
been Playing on Offline Mode now for 2 Hours i Carn't Really tell the Difference to be Honest.

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[quote name='Ackter']I reckon the thread needs to remain open simply because some people will be posting in here just to get more information about how it works - and we need to be around to help them get their answers.[/QUOTE]

Or you could post a thread where all the facts are laid out rather than people spreading misinformation about Steam and scaremongering.

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[quote name='Dune297']Give it a try if it doesn't have to do with Steam. If you aren't even against Steam and never experienced a problem with it then what's stopping you from buying FM12 and interacting with Steam once just to activate the game?[/QUOTE]If he does not like Steam or has a technical issue with it will he have an alternative? No
Will he be able to return the game for a refund if the above applies? No

That is a key part of the problem, if there was a backup function available that does not rely on 3rd party software then this would not be an issue.

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[quote name='Spikester']I'm not too happy about 'Having' to download Steam to play the game, especially when I'm buying the Boxed version.

Will a sticky be provided here on how to download and install Steam, and then to install the game through Steam?

Steve[/QUOTE]

It's no more difficult than installing normally, except that you need to create a Steam account, which is no more difficult than signing up to a forum.

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