David Kempshall

A Message On Football Manager 2012 Activation

4,165 posts in this topic

And I can do a bit of programming to make websites like this on my PC. I don't understand what you're getting at?

umm... did you read anything on her websites? anything at all? did you even visit? you really are an ignorant troll, nothing more... were you against Steam-only FM you'd no doubt be infracted as such... funny how censorship works isn't it?

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Ive read all 12 pages & here is my opinion, I think that I will not be buying FM2012 as I too do not want to have Steam on my computer, I dont care if its better then it was a few years ago its my choice and I will not be made to look stupid or petty from suck ups on here, I like over 50 people on this thread alone will not buy it so you are looking at a loss of 50 x 30 = 1500 pound loss just because they dont want to use Steam, you say it will deter some people from getting pirated copies of games instead of buying it, the main reason why people download stuff i.e films, music, games etc cos in this current climate you cant afford to buy things, I aint saying I download Football Manager cos Ive always bought a copy despite the frustrating bugs, I think you will end up regretting this in the long run & I just hope its changed back to normal for the release of FM2013 which I look forward to playing on, Ill continue to play on FM2011 and I wish you luck on here.

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They can't afford it because they have a Mac. Macs are twice the price or more of a PC that you can build yourself.

As you grow older, you will realise one simple truth about Mac vs PC; it's all down to preference. Not specs, not price, preference. I prefer Macs, as I can't build my own laptops. I have a PC tower gaming machine that I built, so that I can play some stuff I can't on my Mac. But I prefer to work in OS X. That doesn't mean I have anything against Windows.

But that comes later in life for some.

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Dune can you get of the anti-mac line? it's not helpful & dilutes anything you post.

Surely you can see that the proposed software is not optimised for a particular piece of hardware & this should have been considered when taking this action.

I'm anti-mac because I see so many people complaining about how much memory Steam uses as well as how they can't afford internet. If they can afford a Mac, then they can afford internet. Simple as that. I guarantee I can build a PC 3x the quality for the same price or less as anyone's Mac.

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Can we stop all this bickering please, Steam won't adversely affect the functioning of a reasonable spec computer, if it does there's something amiss.

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That's the absolute minimum. Using system requirements is rather absurd. I'm sure if Steam had a recommended, it would be around 2gb or more.

I think it's recommended, really... Steam does not do incredibly intensive calculations or store tons of data (hence RAM usage < 200 MB for most). It is one of those applications where the recommended and minimum requirements are close.

Nevertheless, it has a memory and processor footprint.

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There is only one bad thing about Macs - the yes and no buttons on FM are the other way around.

I use both Macs and PCs and they're both as good as each other.

Incidentally, my current PC is 7 years old.

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As you grow older, you will realise one simple truth about Mac vs PC; it's all down to preference. Not specs, not price, preference. I prefer Macs, as I can't build my own laptops. I have a PC tower gaming machine that I built, so that I can play some stuff I can't on my Mac. But I prefer to work in OS X. That doesn't mean I have anything against Windows.

But that comes later in life for some.

If you have the money, I'm all for it. Half the people here can't afford a proper monthly internet bill and they are complaining as if 200mb of ram is a lot. Since most of them are on Macs, I guarantee if they had consulted somebody about it, they would have got the same build for 1/3 the price.

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yeah yeah, keep on derailing the thread Dune... where's the infractions for Off-Topic posts Moderators? Do your job instead of inflaming the debate yourselves!

There is a noticeable amount of opposition to SI/SEGA's decision to go Steam-Only, there is also a noticeable amount of a "we don't care" attitude from SI/SEGA...

The enormous lack of respect for the current customer-base is unbelievable... we're the people that buy your game, not pirate it! We should have a choice!

I've made mine

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One of the SEGA guys will have to answer that I'm afraid as I just don't know how it works there personally.

I'm not sure there's much that can be said though, we're not allowed to sell the game in Germany full stop. We'd love to, but for legal reasons that have already been explained we're just not allowed to.

As such, I'm not sure we'd even be allowed to advise you on any ways of getting around that as it could be seen as officially encouraging people to break the law.

A fair and honest answer Bertie, thank you. Can we trust that you will make SEGA aware of the question?

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they are complaining as if 200mb of ram is a lot.

Well 200MB is a lot for a background process with the only purpose of me being able to launch a game. It then adds to the overall resource footprint of Football Manager, and that's the problem.

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yeah yeah, keep on derailing the thread Dune... where's the infractions for Off-Topic posts Moderators? Do your job instead of inflaming the debate yourselves!

There is a noticeable amount of opposition to SI/SEGA's decision to go Steam-Only, there is also a noticeable amount of a "we don't care" attitude from SI/SEGA...

The enormous lack of respect for the current customer-base is unbelievable... we're the people that buy your game, not pirate it! We should have a choice!

I've made mine

Derailing the thread? Hardly? I'm explaining to people that they shouldn't have a Mac in the first place if they #1 Can't afford internet, and #2 Can't afford a decent Mac. If Steam is taking up 45% of your CPU usage, then your computer is far outdated and you really need an upgrade. Steam is taking just 3% of mine.

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Can we stop all this bickering please, Steam won't adversely affect the functioning of a reasonable spec computer, if it does there's something amiss.

Thats the point - if there is something amiss. your FM gaming experience is buggered by steam and not any fault with the game.

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Derailing the thread? Hardly? I'm explaining to people that they shouldn't have a Mac in the first place if they #1 Can't afford internet, and #2 Can't afford a decent Mac. If Steam is taking up 45% of your CPU usage, then your computer is far outdated and you really need an upgrade. Steam is taking just 3% of mine.

Again; the problem isn't Mac, the problem is that the Steam app for Mac isn't as optimised for OS X as it is for Windows. That's why it draws more resources for me than it does for you, even though my machine has high specs.

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The enormous lack of respect for the current customer-base is unbelievable... we're the people that buy your game, not pirate it! We should have a choice!

The funniest thing is that the majority of people who pirate games aren't even potential consumers - they have no intention of buying it in the first place. I can't see this as being anything other than SI shooting themselves in the foot.

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Thats the point - if there is something amiss. your FM gaming experience is buggered by steam and not any fault with the game.
functioning of a reasonable spec computer

Notice the words "reasonable spec."

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As you grow older, you will realise one simple truth about Mac vs PC; it's all down to preference. Not specs, not price, preference. I prefer Macs, as I can't build my own laptops. I have a PC tower gaming machine that I built, so that I can play some stuff I can't on my Mac. But I prefer to work in OS X. That doesn't mean I have anything against Windows.

But that comes later in life for some.

Well said. My only reason for ditching Mac was an interoperability, ecosystem, and some annoyances with Apple itself rather than specs, price or preference.

What annoys me in the discussion is that preference always descends into some sanctimoniously entrenched bitchfest over brand loyalty rather than just accepting other peoples choice.

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Again; the problem isn't Mac, the problem is that the Steam app for Mac isn't as optimised for OS X as it is for Windows. That's why it draws more resources for me than it does for you, even though my machine has high specs.

Yes, reminds me of iTunes on Windows. (not a dig, just an observation as a user of several OS's at some point)

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A fair and honest answer Bertie, thank you. Can we trust that you will make SEGA aware of the question?

I already have :)

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Really is amusing and amazing that people will shoot themselves in the foot by not getting FM12 just because they are too stubborn to not get Steam, if you have a PC made in the last 3-4 years Steam should work with no problems at all, and unless your PC is ancient, then this really shouldnt be an issue. Ive had Steam for what must be 3-4 years and never had a single problem with it, download speeds are good, can run offline very easily, its running at about 40mbs atm, not slowing up my pc, i dont even notice it unless i want to play a Steam game.

Will wager that most of the people who say they wont be getting FM12 will have it within a month of release anyway though :D

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Just read this, and out of curiosity (not siding one way or the other) - if it is illegal to resell a game, why are GAME, HMV and Gamestation not having any trouble buying and selling pre-owned games? This practice is literally accepted by all the publishers and developers without any lawsuit being made. If it was illegal, I assure you, these three companies would have stopped by now or they would have been facing very heavy consequences. Not to mention that eBay has a section entirely devoted to this practice. Are you sure it's illegal?

http://www.neowin.net/news/used-games-worse-than-piracy-says-developer

Activision came out with the same thing as well.

Steam basically nullifies the used games market as you cannot resell your game.

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Those people that aren't going to buy FM12 because of Steam, you are not big PC gamers are you?

You are basically forced to use Steam for PC gaming at the moment. Most big PC releases use Steamworks for DRM, we might not like it but we have to live with it if we want to play those games. I'm not a massive fan, Ive always tried to avoid it if possible and certainly never bought anything from them as it is a rip off. There are irritating things about it (having to manually tweak settings off for every game instead of having them turned off by default and giving you the option to turn them back on for individual games), but it is the least offensive Online DRM and it generally works better then everything else (GfWL, Ubisoft crap, etc...). Offline hasn't always worked perfectly for me, and that has been massively annoying but I wouldn't avoid a game because it was Steam unlike GfWL, Ubisoft, crap etc... On PC it barely effects a decent spec PC performance, it obviously has problems on Mac but gaming on a Mac has other problems anyway (chiefly that hardly any games bother to port over to Mac).

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Steam is the best thing to happen to PC games probably in the history of PC games. Viva Steam. SI, you have my sword.

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Really is amusing and amazing that people will shoot themselves in the foot by not getting FM12 just because they are too stubborn to not get Steam, if you have a PC made in the last 3-4 years Steam should work with no problems at all, and unless your PC is ancient, then this really shouldnt be an issue. Ive had Steam for what must be 3-4 years and never had a single problem with it, download speeds are good, can run offline very easily, its running at about 40mbs atm, not slowing up my pc, i dont even notice it unless i want to play a Steam game.

While I guess most would have computers being able to have Steam running, I reckon a lot more have unstable Internet connections.

Also, I seriously dislike the idea that a company can decide on their own whim that I'm not allowed to play a game I've bought. Of course this happens very rarely. There's also the risk of the company (Steam company, Valve?) going bust, IIRC there was a music provider who went bust a few years ago (I don't remember the name), where people who have bought their music no longer could listen to it since they no longer could be authenticated.

I'm not that surprised of the decision SEGA and SI have made, although unhappy about it, but the timing of it is astonishing. If you bring news, which is likely to create negative reactions, wouldn't you normally do it at a time when you could reply and allay the fears which many apparently have, therefor not doing it Friday afternoon so the "outrage" won't built for 2½ day without much "fire extinguishing".

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You can run Steam in offline mode, and play games in offline mode. I have, and have played FM2009 and FM2011 exactly like that. Activation is a once-off.

Also, sort of off the point, but saying Steam is a rip-off is laughable: they're one of the most competitive digital distributors, and there are always amazing deals and bundles on. Valve are probably the most admirable company working in videogames, and Steam probably the single most important piece of software.

Like, you kinda have to be a luddite not to appreciate it as an accomplishment.

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Really is amusing and amazing that people will shoot themselves in the foot by not getting FM12 just because they are too stubborn to not get Steam, if you have a PC made in the last 3-4 years Steam should work with no problems at all, and unless your PC is ancient, then this really shouldnt be an issue. Ive had Steam for what must be 3-4 years and never had a single problem with it, download speeds are good, can run offline very easily, its running at about 40mbs atm, not slowing up my pc, i dont even notice it unless i want to play a Steam game.

Will wager that most of the people who say they wont be getting FM12 will have it within a month of release anyway though :D

Some people have principles about being forced into doing anything against their will. Most people would be furious at being forced to install something that is totally unnecessary. Others, like myself, have bitter experience of using FM and Steam together (FM09) which was also on a machine bought for the purpose.

As for your wager, perhaps you'd like to state an amount saying that I would be one of those to have it by November end? Before you do though, bear in mind that I walked away from buying a 40 grand car simply because, when I asked for a brochure, I was told to download it! Not, sure I'll go get you one, not I'm afraid I have to download it, no... You (I) will have to download it... yeah? You think? How about I buy my car from somewhere that has got a brochure? (which I did...). To play FM12 I must install Steam? How much do you really want to wager that I won't?

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i just want to say: please, to the people that want to say no to STEAM: don't just make problems on the forum, DO NOT BUY THE GAME DEFINITELY, that one is the only way to have some attention on our "NO TO STEAM".

i'm also disappointed about...the SI\SEGA staff because they cannot say to us: -doesn't change anything for the genuine customers- or something like that.

i'm genuine customers too of FM\CM by 10-11 years....and for me change a lot because i cannot play anymore with FM.

my 2 cent,

:)

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To play FM12 I must install Steam? How much do you really want to wager that I won't?

How much do you want to wager that if you don't stop repeating this over and over and over you won't get an infraction, we get your point, indeed I have some sympathy for your viewpoint (even though I agree with others that you're rather taking a stance that unnecessarily penalises you)

However, you've made it abundantly clear so often that it's becoming spam, really you don't need to tell us again, nobody can be in any doubt about your views on the subject.

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Can i uninstall steam after activation? Or do i need to have it open every time i play the game?

Steam has to be running in the backround in off-line mode, so cannot un-install it

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You have to have it open.

Right now on my machine I have it open with FM11 running and it's eating a whopping 70MB of my 4GB of RAM, and putting a hurt of 00% on my CPU.

What people don't seem to realize is that using Steam to play PC games in 2011 is sort of like using IE/Firefox/Chrome to browse the Internet. It's long since been adopted as the standard, and with good reason: it's great.

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Not much for me to say really - all the Steam bashing I could do has already been done. What I will do is register my unhappiness with SI and SEGA by virtue of this post.

I've recently graduated from University, and I'm sure other people are in the same boat as me when I say this, job hunting hasn't yet been as successful as I'd hoped. Consequently my finances aren't as good as they could be. I planned on budgeting my weekly spend in the lead up to release so that I could afford to buy FM2012 without feeling guilty. However with this announcement and my previous bad experiences of using Steam I have decided that I'm not going to buy or preorder FM2012. I am quite happy to continue using FM2011.

That is not to say I won't play FM2012, I have my birthday in December and obviously Christmas, so it's extremely likely that I will get a copy (my friends and family all know of my love of the game). I don't want to use Steam and am unhappy about having to do so, but I am resigned to this being the case. However I certainly won't be spending my money to buy the game because of it.

Also, thanks to x42bn6 for his informative posts. I've started following you on twitter as a result. :thup:

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Can i uninstall steam after activation? Or do i need to have it open every time i play the game?
unfortunately not :(

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Also, sort of off the point, but saying Steam is a rip-off is laughable: they're one of the most competitive digital distributors, and there are always amazing deals and bundles on. Valve are probably the most admirable company working in videogames, and Steam probably the single most important piece of software.

Steam is a rip-off outside of the amazing deals and bundles. Almost every single game can be bought cheaper retail when they are not offer, you might have to look around a bit but I'd rather save £5-£10 and have to wait maybe a couple of hours for the postman to turn up. SI might not get as money if I buy it off Amazon, Play, etc... rather then digitally, but that is their problem not mine, until they are willing to come around and upgrade the infrastructure where I live (shouldn't cost more then a couple of million pounds, sortitoutSI ;)) I will continue to buy retail.

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It's really hard for me -- and everyone at SI, I imagine -- to get my head around the fevered response to this.

It's like hearing people complain that to keep watching a boxset of their favourite show they're going to need a DVD player to put the discs in.

Only in this case the DVD player is free and also gives blowjobs.

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While I guess most would have computers being able to have Steam running, I reckon a lot more have unstable Internet connections.

The activation ( if you buy the disc ) takes about 5 seconds, even if you have an unstable connection, will take very little time

Also, I seriously dislike the idea that a company can decide on their own whim that I'm not allowed to play a game I've bought. Of course this happens very rarely. There's also the risk of the company (Steam company, Valve?) going bust, IIRC there was a music provider who went bust a few years ago (I don't remember the name), where people who have bought their music no longer could listen to it since they no longer could be authenticated.

Valve is a massive company, they arent going to go bust anytime soon

I'm not that surprised of the decision SEGA and SI have made, although unhappy about it, but the timing of it is astonishing. If you bring news, which is likely to create negative reactions, wouldn't you normally do it at a time when you could reply and allay the fears which many apparently have, therefor not doing it Friday afternoon so the "outrage" won't built for 2½ day without much "fire extinguishing".

All news will bring reactions, a few people are unhappy about this, fine, but if you have a decent internet connection, there is nothing to be angry about, even if you dont have one, you could go to a hotspot ( if you have a laptop ), get a wireless dongle, tether their phone or even take your computer round a friends/relatives who do have internet access. The only people who should be angry about this are those who have literally no access to the internet afer the methods ive listed above, it would be interesting to know how many of them there are, of course, they wont be reading this though :D

Some people have principles about being forced into doing anything against their will. Most people would be furious at being forced to install something that is totally unnecessary. Others, like myself, have bitter experience of using FM and Steam together (FM09) which was also on a machine bought for the purpose.

Its nothing to do with principles, its all aboiut being stubborn, pig-headed and being unable to accept change, ok, i accept some people may have had a bad experience with steam a few years ago, Steam has changed since then. You arent being forced to install something against your will, dont buy the game, the only one losing out is you. I imagine MOST people will be perfectly happy/ambivalent about this change, mainly because there is no actual problem ( unless as mentioned above, you literally have no internet access )

As for your wager, perhaps you'd like to state an amount saying that I would be one of those to have it by November end? Before you do though, bear in mind that I walked away from buying a 40 grand car simply because, when I asked for a brochure, I was told to download it! Not, sure I'll go get you one, not I'm afraid I have to download it, no... You (I) will have to download it... yeah? You think? How about I buy my car from somewhere that has got a brochure? (which I did...). To play FM12 I must install Steam? How much do you really want to wager that I won't?

You are just 1 person ( not the majority i mentioned ), if you are literally too stubborn/lazy to go to a bit of effort to be able to play a game or buy a car, then your stubborness/laziness is only going to cost one person, you.

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It's really hard for me -- and everyone at SI, I imagine -- to get my head around the fevered response to this.

It's like hearing people complain that to keep watching a boxset of their favourite show they're going to need a DVD player to put the discs in.

Only in this case the DVD player is free and also gives blowjobs.

Steam gives blowjobs? ive missed this, show me where!!!!!!! :p

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What people don't seem to realize is that using Steam to play PC games in 2011 is sort of like using IE/Firefox/Chrome to browse the Internet. It's long since been adopted as the standard, and with good reason: it's great.

I've bought three PC games since January, all digital downloads and not one of them requires Steam. Two used a different sort of online activation and they load nothing extra when playing while the third I was emailed a an activation code.

Steam may be pushing to have a monopoly but they haven't got it yet.

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People who've had problems with Steam in the past would obviously be concerned, although I believe it's improved enormously over the last couple of years and has never given me any problems.

Those who haven't even used it should really try before they call it a tool of the devil.

Those who refuse because it's third party software are making an irrational stand, nothing much on their PC would work without third party software so the only realistic objection can be that it affects performance or detracts from security, I don't believe it does either.

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Valve is a massive company, they arent going to go bust anytime soon

There are plenty of examples of bigger companies than Valve biting the dust in short spaces of time, you are very naive if you think otherwise.

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I will buy the boxed version of the game, after the steam-registered (of which I have an account to 2 years) I can easily get out of steam? or should I always keep it open, even in offline mode?

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I will buy the boxed version of the game, after the steam-registered (of which I have an account to 2 years) I can easily get out of steam? or should I always keep it open, even in offline mode?

It always needs to be running, just not connected to the internet.

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There are plenty of examples of bigger companies than Valve biting the dust in short spaces of time, you are very naive if you think otherwise.

ok, let me re-phrase, its very unlikely and not worth worrying about.

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If you buy games only during Steam sales, then you will save an absolute packet.

If you buy games whenever you want only through Steam, then you will lose a lot of money. Their pricing is not competitive with the likes of Amazon/Zavvi/Base etc. Especially not in Europe.

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Ha, sorry but what a joke. Like others, I don't care if it's just running in the background, I don't care if it doesn't take up to much space etc. I will NOT be forced to install Steam on my computer. There might not be a law against forcing folk to install other programs to play games and hell it may happen all the time but you are not dictating what I put on my pc. End of story. So that's another buyer lost.

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You are 'forced' to install an OS on your computer if you want it to start, and a browser if you want to go on the web, and Office (or equivalent) if you want to do word processing or spreadsheets. You are 'forced' to install iTunes if you own an iPod. You are 'forced' to install any number of piece of third party software to do anything on a computer, and I would wager that the same people who are complaining about the principle here have three different spyware-riddled browser toolbars on the go right now.

SI are not dictating what you put on your PC, you are.

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Ha, sorry but what a joke. Like others, I don't care if it's just running in the background, I don't care if it doesn't take up to much space etc. I will NOT be forced to install Steam on my computer. There might not be a law against forcing folk to install other programs to play games and hell it may happen all the time but you are not dictating what I put on my pc. End of story. So that's another buyer lost.

And what's the point in not installing it? You won't even notice it.

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