A Message On Football Manager 2012 Activation

[milnerpoint]

Going off topic, but it is an inappropriate analogy. My local team is Arsenal - the stadium is a ten minute walk away. I can't afford to watch them now the ticket prices are amongst the highest in the world. Does that make me disloyal?

Be clear, I am NOT saying FM is too expensive - I absolutely do not think that at all. i just mean your concept of loyalty is faulty here.

SI are not pricing you out of FM, steam is free and you can get free internet in most large cities.

The concept of someone buying FM being loyal is faulty anyway, but if people must use it so will i.

[CaptainPlanet]

So you have the game installed on your desktop and your laptop. You forgot to log off the desktop and log in on your laptop. You mean that's it!! I lose access to my games I paid for without a chance of explanation....seriously.....Now this is sounding even worse!!

Want it on two computers? Buy two copies.

[Kriss]

So you have the game installed on your desktop and your laptop. You forgot to log off the desktop and log in on your laptop. You mean that's it!! I lose access to my games I paid for without a chance of explanation....seriously.....Now this is sounding even worse!!

No, it knows it's you whichever PC you're on because of the authentication gizmo.

[Smurf]

@aaron70

You need to take that up with Steam. You can contact their customer support, and they will give you the chance to provide proof of purchase of the game.

[CaptainPlanet]

No, it knows it's you whichever PC you're on because of the authentication gizmo.

If you're logged in to Steam on two computers at the same time, your account can and will get banned. Even if it's under the same IP address. Although such bans are available to dispute.

[Guest aaron70]

Want it on two computers? Buy two copies.

And you think that is okay?? I own both computers and I buy a game, but I can only put it on one of MY computers to make sure I do not lose that game...you are seriously saying this is okay. Is this considered acceptable by consumers now? In other words you don't own the game you bought. Man, the consumers have been absolutely pounded into submissiveness.

[milnerpoint]

And you think that is okay?? I own both computers and I buy a game, but I can only put it on one of MY computers to make sure I do not lose that game...you are seriously saying this is okay. Is this considered acceptable by consumers now? In other words you don't own the game you bought. Man, the consumers have been absolutely pounded into submissiveness.

You have never owned any game you bought for PC, you have bought a license to use it. Consols are a bit different, you do own the game for them.

[Guest aaron70]

@aaron70

You need to take that up with Steam. You can contact their customer support, and they will give you the chance to provide proof of purchase of the game.

Okay...thanks Eugene. It was started earlier that you would be banned without recourse. Still that really seals it for me. No FM12. I mean we have become whimpering kittens getting bullied by the manufacturers. I spend amy money and can't even put the thing on both my computers....just incredible. Really crazy to me. I give up!!! FM11 forever,,,

[CaptainPlanet]

And you think that is okay?? I own both computers and I buy a game, but I can only put it on one of MY computers to make sure I do not lose that game...you are seriously saying this is okay. Is this considered acceptable by consumers now? In other words you don't own the game you bought. Man, the consumers have been absolutely pounded into submissiveness.

Of course I think it's ok, it's a valid way to detect a system that is open to abuse. You can't buy one copy of windows to run on two computers at the same time, why should you be allowed to do the same with a game?

[huntelaar19]

You would hope so, but it doesnt always seem that way from where im sitting!!

Hahahaha, I've spent like three hours going through this thread, I've finally laughed so thank you for that !

your right, which is why they have gone this way, the forums make up a tiny proportion of FMer's and there is an even smaller number of forum users dead against it. Remember this thread and the others made are by large the same 50/60 posters over and over.

Yeah I suppose your right there, but how many FM users are there out there that aren't forum members and are also dead against STEAM ? It just seems to me that the STEAM haters are being punished because of the pirates. STEAM haters and pirates, I wish there was a cool name for the category i'm in, fence warmer perhaps ?

you have the choice before you buy the game, you have to decide then, "can i get internet to make this game work?" If not, dont buy it, Miles has said there will be a big warning pack on the game that will tell you this before you buy it.

I didn't think for a moment this would not be the case however it seems like a bit of a kick in the footballs if you've played the series for years pick up the game and find out you no longer can play the game.

[Super Bladesman]

And you think that is okay?? I own both computers and I buy a game, but I can only put it on one of MY computers to make sure I do not lose that game...you are seriously saying this is okay. Is this considered acceptable by consumers now? In other words you don't own the game you bought. Man, the consumers have been absolutely pounded into submissiveness.

I routinely access my Steam account (and attached games) on 2 machines. You log in to Steam on one PC and it automatically logs you out on the other. You can install and play your Steamworks games on as many PCs as you like, and if you lose the disc, you'd even be able to download the game again from Steam, even though you didn't buy from them. I really don't get the Steam bashing, it's generally a great product. I pretty much only buy games via Steam now - if it ain't on Steam, I'm unlikely to buy it.

[Guest aaron70]

You have never owned any game you bought for PC, you have bought a license to use it. Consols are a bit different, you do own the game for them.

Pedantic reply. I had a disk. I could put it on my computer at home, work, and laptop if I wanted. My game, my computers, one user.

[CaptainPlanet]

I really don't get the Steam bashing, it's generally a great product. I pretty much only buy games via Steam now - if it ain't on Steam, I'm unlikely to buy it.

I don't either, and people seem very reluctant to change their views on it once their mind is made up!

[Guest aaron70]

Of course I think it's ok, it's a valid way to detect a system that is open to abuse. You can't buy one copy of windows to run on two computers at the same time, why should you be allowed to do the same with a game?

I don't know what to say to that. I hope you can see where this argument goes. Stop abuse of the system by enforcing more controls that does not actually stop those who want to get around them. 1984 anyone?

[CaptainPlanet]

I don't know what to say to that. I hope you can see where this argument goes. Stop abuse of the system by enforcing more controls that does not actually stop those who want to get around them. 1984 anyone?

But it does stop people using multiple versions of the same steam account which used to be a problem. It's an effective solution.

[Smurf]

Pedantic reply. I had a disk. I could put it on my computer at home, work, and laptop if I wanted. My game, my computers, one user.

Absolutely not.

You don't own the software, any software that you buy. Including Windows, Mac OS, any fonts that you "buy", most software.

You don't own it. You buy a license to use it. The software comes with a EULA. For Football Manager your license is restricted to the installation on 1 computer.

It's not your game. It's a license to use the game, and the agreement is that you can install and use the Software on one computer.

This is standard for most software.

[Guest aaron70]

I routinely access my Steam account (and attached games) on 2 machines. You log in to Steam on one PC and it automatically logs you out on the other. You can install and play your Steamworks games on as many PCs as you like, and if you lose the disc, you'd even be able to download the game again from Steam, even though you didn't buy from them. I really don't get the Steam bashing, it's generally a great product. I pretty much only buy games via Steam now - if it ain't on Steam, I'm unlikely to buy it.

Okay. You have been the first person to mention automatic logging off and you also have said you can play on many different PCs, again that is different to what Captain Planet was saying. If this is the case, it at least stops what would have bee lunacy.

[milnerpoint]

Hahahaha, I've spent like three hours going through this thread, I've finally laughed so thank you for that !

Yeah I suppose your right there, but how many FM users are there out there that aren't forum members and are also dead against STEAM ? It just seems to me that the STEAM haters are being punished because of the pirates. STEAM haters and pirates, I wish there was a cool name for the category i'm in, fence warmer perhaps ?

I didn't think for a moment this would not be the case however it seems like a bit of a kick in the footballs if you've played the series for years pick up the game and find out you no longer can play the game.

Hey we need to laugh sometime, god knows its all that gets me through most saturdays!!

Ask yourself, how many people installed through steam for FM11? Neither of us will know that, but you can bet SI and SEGA do, if those figures were not encouraging they would have never gone down this route. Remember your average young gamer most likely has accepted things like steam and others, they are becoming standard, they will not bat an eyelid at all.

yup its very sad some people will miss out, but thats the nature of advancement, im sure more have missed out because their pc was not up to scratch, or their graphics card died.

[milnerpoint]

Okay. You have been the first person to mention automatic logging off and you also have said you can play on many different PCs, again that is different to what Captain Planet was saying. If this is the case, it at least stops what would have bee lunacy.

yeah you wont get banned for what your saying, sorry i should have been more specific, Steam will know where your logging in from, if its from the same IP the chances are it wont get flagged as long as its not repeated log in's, if the two log ins occur more than once from distant locations the account will be locked down.

[Guest aaron70]

Hey we need to laugh sometime, god knows its all that gets me through most saturdays!!

Ask yourself, how many people installed through steam for FM11? Neither of us will know that, but you can bet SI and SEGA do, if those figures were not encouraging they would have never gone down this route. Remember your average young gamer most likely has accepted things like steam and others, they are becoming standard, they will not bat an eyelid at all.

yup its very sad some people will miss out, but thats the nature of advancement, im sure more have missed out because their pc was not up to scratch, or their graphics card died.

Milner...you talked about loyalty before....this is the what i am getting at here. You have just identified those most likely to miss out. People who have been playing this series for a long time...a lot of older players actually only play FM. They are the ones who suffer and that is why a noise is being made on this thread.

Anyway I will leave it at that. I see consumers will accept just about anything these days. I can see the day when you will have to use a thumb print scanning to log into your game. People will say "what's the problem?" Poor old fogies don't get it And even then the games will still be pirated because the pirates are cleverer than the developers.

I will choose to sit it out. It just does not sit right with me...peace to all of you and happy gaming

[Snaus]

What will the situation be for the FMH versions of FM 2012?

(Sorry, I know this is the PC/Mac forum, but there's no announcement in the handheld section and I didn't want to start a new thread there).

Personally I have a PSP and I don't think there'll be something special for it. But how about the iOS versions?

[CaptainPlanet]

Okay. You have been the first person to mention automatic logging off and you also have said you can play on many different PCs, again that is different to what Captain Planet was saying. If this is the case, it at least stops what would have bee lunacy.

There's some resiliency built in to allow for mistakes, but it's still against the terms of usage.

[Themer]

Okay. You have been the first person to mention automatic logging off and you also have said you can play on many different PCs, again that is different to what Captain Planet was saying. If this is the case, it at least stops what would have bee lunacy.

There are alot of fallacies being spouted on here about steam. I have a PC and a laptop in my house both of which have steam on them which automatically login when started. If I go on my PC when someone is already on the laptop it simply tells me I'm logged on elsewhere and can I sign in, having to physically put in my password. After I've done this it automatically logs me out of the laptop. You don't get banned or anything silly, they do realise some people might have a PC and laptop.

[CaptainPlanet]

There are alot of fallacies being spouted on here about steam. I have a PC and a laptop in my house both of which have steam on them which automatically login when started. If I go on my PC when someone is already on the laptop it simply tells me I'm logged on elsewhere and can I sign in, having to physically put in my password. After I've done this it automatically logs me out of the laptop. You don't get banned or anything silly, they do realise some people might have a PC and laptop.

They did used to instaban for it. I didn't realise they had implemented the auto-logout feature.

Although it still leaves it open to abuse through the offline mode.

[7Bestie7]

There are alot of fallacies being spouted on here about steam. I have a PC and a laptop in my house both of which have steam on them which automatically login when started. If I go on my PC when someone is already on the laptop it simply tells me I'm logged on elsewhere and can I sign in, having to physically put in my password. After I've done this it automatically logs me out of the laptop. You don't get banned or anything silly, they do realise some people might have a PC and laptop.

Essentially what happens in regards to any messenger system. And to go on a small tangent, there are some online poker software which doesn't do this, you have to log out of the previous computer to log into another to avoid multi-accounting (a massive issue in the online poker world). It's a standard security issue for anything that's taken seriously so I can't see why anyone would/should/could have troubles with this.

[jakobx]

Absolutely not.

You don't own the software, any software that you buy. Including Windows, Mac OS, any fonts that you "buy", most software.

You don't own it. You buy a license to use it. The software comes with a EULA. For Football Manager your license is restricted to the installation on 1 computer.

It's not your game. It's a license to use the game, and the agreement is that you can install and use the Software on one computer.

This is standard for most software.

Really? Why is that so? Cause it says so when you install the game? Dont be silly. None of those terms were disclosed prior to buying the game. Try suing someone for breaching EULA in a normal court.

[milnerpoint]

yeah they did used to instaban no questions asked for this kind of thing but they lenient now.

[Smurf]

You're made aware of the EULA prior to installation of most software. It's actually when you click the "I agree to the... " option most people just tick that box without reading it.

Nobody is going to be sued for installing the game on two computers that they own.

But you might be if you install it on 100's of computers.

[milnerpoint]

Really? Why is that so? Cause it says so when you install the game? Dont be silly. None of those terms were disclosed prior to buying the game. Try suing someone for breaching EULA in a normal court.

Legally standing what he says is correct, even if it is difficult to enforce, basically SEGA have taken the ability away to break the law.

[BayernMB]

Thanks.

Most of the time??

Not exactly reassuring.

I never had problems while running it in offline mode and I'm using it since FM09. I must add that 95% of time I use online mode...

[kevgaleuk]

without having to provide my data to a third-part company in order to download third-part software

Irrespective of the rights and wrongs of SI's decision to force just one way to play the game on the consumer can I ask a separate question that I have not seen tackled here?

Where are Steam based? If they are US or elsewise outside of the UK then unless I am very wrong then they are NOT tied to any data protection laws in the UK. Can SI/Sega confirm what the data security measures are and that Steam/whomever the parent company is are tied to data protection laws in the country OF THE CONSUMER not their base? I am assuming no financial information needs to be given but my email address is a valuable asset and I work very hard to ensure I don't get spam from companies by not signing up to much.

I work in the data world so my other questions are:

What personal information am I REQUIRED to provide in order to create an account and activate the game?

What OPT-OUTS do they have for providing data (I am hoping they don't just squirrel away that by agreeing to install Steam you are letting them have access to your data? Can I opt-out of not only 3rd Party but Steam/Holding company too?

Thanks

[milnerpoint]

Milner...you talked about loyalty before....this is the what i am getting at here. You have just identified those most likely to miss out. People who have been playing this series for a long time...a lot of older players actually only play FM. They are the ones who suffer and that is why a noise is being made on this thread.

Anyway I will leave it at that. I see consumers will accept just about anything these days. I can see the day when you will have to use a thumb print scanning to log into your game. People will say "what's the problem?" Poor old fogies don't get it And even then the games will still be pirated because the pirates are cleverer than the developers.

I will choose to sit it out. It just does not sit right with me...peace to all of you and happy gaming

They are going to miss out by choice tho, its their choice not to follow the way gaming technology is going, be it because they dont agree with it or dont want to be forced to use it.

I wont bite to the rest because its all been said, sadly you wont be enjoying FM12, thats your decision and even if i dont understand it i respect it

[Kriss]

There's some resiliency built in to allow for mistakes, but it's still against the terms of usage.

Stop confusing people, you can play on a million PC's but only ever one at a time, that was the question.

[pigfacemonkeyman]

There are alot of fallacies being spouted on here about steam. I have a PC and a laptop in my house both of which have steam on them which automatically login when started. If I go on my PC when someone is already on the laptop it simply tells me I'm logged on elsewhere and can I sign in, having to physically put in my password. After I've done this it automatically logs me out of the laptop. You don't get banned or anything silly, they do realise some people might have a PC and laptop.

Yes there is, and a lot of it is coming from people who are ok with Steam passing on misleading information

[The Welsh Lad]

Irrespective of the rights and wrongs of SI's decision to force just one way to play the game on the consumer can I ask a separate question that I have not seen tackled here?

Where are Steam based? If they are US or elsewise outside of the UK then unless I am very wrong then they are NOT tied to any data protection laws in the UK. Can SI/Sega confirm what the data security measures are and that Steam/whomever the parent company is are tied to data protection laws in the country OF THE CONSUMER not their base? I am assuming no financial information needs to be given but my email address is a valuable asset and I work very hard to ensure I don't get spam from companies by not signing up to much.

I work in the data world so my other questions are:

What personal information am I REQUIRED to provide in order to create an account and activate the game?

What OPT-OUTS do they have for providing data (I am hoping they don't just squirrel away that by agreeing to install Steam you are letting them have access to your data? Can I opt-out of not only 3rd Party but Steam/Holding company too?

Thanks

If you don't plan on buying games from them you will not have to enter bank detail or personal detail. i just created an account all it asked me for was what part of the world I live in, and to pick a username, password and email address (set up a new email address, if you don't want to get bombarded with anything in your main account.) Has for the rest I have no idea.

EDIT: Oh Steam is a US based company

[spankie]

Irrespective of the rights and wrongs of SI's decision to force just one way to play the game on the consumer can I ask a separate question that I have not seen tackled here?

Where are Steam based? If they are US or elsewise outside of the UK then unless I am very wrong then they are NOT tied to any data protection laws in the UK. Can SI/Sega confirm what the data security measures are and that Steam/whomever the parent company is are tied to data protection laws in the country OF THE CONSUMER not their base? I am assuming no financial information needs to be given but my email address is a valuable asset and I work very hard to ensure I don't get spam from companies by not signing up to much.

I work in the data world so my other questions are:

What personal information am I REQUIRED to provide in order to create an account and activate the game?

What OPT-OUTS do they have for providing data (I am hoping they don't just squirrel away that by agreeing to install Steam you are letting them have access to your data? Can I opt-out of not only 3rd Party but Steam/Holding company too?

Thanks

Get a free mailbox with Hotmail, Gmail or wherever and use that whenever you have to sign up for something with a valid email address. I've got one that I use as a spam trap and it's pretty decent about filtering out spam as it is and I just have to login occasionally to clean things up and read the valid emails that I want to. You're not forced into using you home email address anywhere, especially on Steam.

[Kriss]

Now stop discussing circumvention of the protection please folks, all the questions asked here are clearly answered on the Steam website and/or forums, that's the obvious place to look for info on the workings of it.

[pigfacemonkeyman]

Maybe this kind of thing had a bearing on SI/Sega's decision:http://www.reghardware.com/2011/08/26/game_denies_it_threatened_uk_games_publishers_over_steam_support/

[themadsheep2001]

Yes there is, and a lot of it is coming from people who are ok with Steam passing on misleading information

and from people not ok with steam, passing on misleading information...

Kriss any chance of a definitive Steam FAQ being put up? Probably been asked before but i think i missed it

[swirlypop69]

I imagine all these people who don't like Steam are over 40 and afraid of change...

[phnompenhandy]

I imagine all these people who don't like Steam are over 40 and afraid of change...

Stupid insular attitude.

[Wakers]

I imagine all these people who don't like Steam are over 40 and afraid of change...

I really don't understand why people feel the need to post this sort of rubbish?

Some people don't want to use Steam. End of story.

[swirlypop69]

Why the QQing about Steam?

"I just don't like it" is hardly a reason.

[Wakers]

Why the QQing about Steam?

"I just don't like it" is hardly a reason.

Firstly, cut the attitude. You're not making yourself sound clever by talking down to anyone who doesn't want to use Steam with your 1337 gamer speech.

Second, if you'd bother to read just a page of the thread you'll find about ten different reasons as to why people are reluctant to rely totally on Steam.

[Smurf]

Well if people don't want to use Steam they are out of luck.

That's what is required to play FM12. If you buy FM12 you'll need to have Steam and internet connection.

Otherwise don't buy it.

No amount of posts here will change their minds now. One can only hope that their sales are hit hard and they may rethink it.

However, I will be buying it. I look forward to playing the game. Steam use doesn't bother me.

[The Welsh Lad]

Why the QQing about Steam?

"I just don't like it" is hardly a reason.

It is a reason. Do you like marmite. I don't and I havent tasted it just don't like the look of it.

[Wakers]

Well if people don't want to use Steam they are out of luck.

That's what is required to play FM12. If you buy FM12 you'll need to have Steam and internet connection.

Otherwise don't buy it.

No amount of posts here will change their minds now. One can only hope that their sales are hit hard and they may rethink it.

However, I will be buying it. I look forward to playing the game. Steam use doesn't bother me.

Is it me or have you said that before?

[Smurf]

Yep. The same as others who have said "they won't buy FM12 because you have to use Steam" x 100

*edited*

[edwingray]

Well if people don't want to use Steam they are out of luck.

That's what is required to play FM12. If you buy FM12 you'll need to have Steam and internet connection.

I can live with the idea of being forced to use a software I don't trust, but possibly having to move country to play the game is a completely different matter

[swirlypop69]

lol you tell me not to talk down to people and then do the same to me, hypocrisy must be alright then. QQing was just easier to write.

I have read a lot of this thread, most people either seem to be afraid by change, misinformed, or just determined to kick up a fuss because SI did something without asking them first.