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The Rafalution

Liverpool Thread 2011/12

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u need better players it wont matter who u get in charge unless u get a better team!

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[video=youtube;u-LlwzIFhkA]

Exactly, dignity, honour and no crap taken from idiotic reporters who hound him for a reaction to something, seconds after telling him about it.

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I'm not supporting Liverpool until Kenny has gone. Yes, that's how fickle I am, and I don't really give a **** if you disapprove.

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Henderson was tragic today yeah. Doesn't have the balls to try anything that isn't more than about 0.001% on the risk scale. Times when you're crying out for him to play an early ball and he'll just turn and give it to Gerrard 5 yards away instead. Infuriating.

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Need to put all our eggs in the FA cup basket then for this not to be any more of a comedy season than it already is. Give a load of first teamers a rest, just play the under 12s for a few league games.

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Might as well play youth. The first team has given up. Oh, and whoever said Reina has gone a bit rubbish this year back in the thread is correct. He's been below average this year.

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Its another tough season for us in the league, but at least we have had optimism in the cup competitions.

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Even the crowd knew how crap we were.... not a single peep out of them except for the applause for Sterling

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I've been an advocate of Kenny going much earlier than most of you, but even I don't think it should be now. Let him go at the end of the season, when it can be amicable. We stand to gain little by doing it now.

Thought Sterling looked very impressive in his cameo.

Not a little ironic that the credit for the defence getting sorted went to Steve Clarke and now we're shipping goals we've not heard anything about how good a job he's doing. Really does sum up how much better Skrtel is when Agger's alongside him (and therefore Skrtel gets to play on the right in the centre) than when Carragher "the great organiser" is there.

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Carra is past it, I think we all know that. Agger & Skrtel have pretty much kept the defence together on their own. Not sure if anyone else agree's, but in the first half of the season Jose Enrique looked like he could be one of the signings of the season, but since Christmas he has been shocking. Looks very, very lazy when defending. Its either that or a lot of complacency but it seems to be every game.

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Since Christmas neither fullback has had Super-Lucas to bail them out when they bomb forward or make a positional mistake.

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Didn't catch the game, don't want to watch the highlights - How did Sterling do when he came on?

Liverpool are a joke at the moment.

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Look, I do not doubt that Kenny was the right man for the job when Hodgson was sacked. We needed a manager at immediate notice and somebody who would unify the club and fans, and that's what we got. And Kenny's performance in the 5 months of last season was excellent, there is no doubting that.

Whatever his tactical deficiencies and rotation/substitutes etc, his downfall ultimately is the players we bought. And let's be frank: they're utter crap. Suarez would be great but for his controversies, Enrique is a good player and Bellamy was free. I think we're all united though on Adam, Henderson, Downing and Carroll. Absolute rubbish. They are not fit to play for Liverpool and their performances have been atrocious. When you look at what these 4 have contributed, and compare that to say the performances of Cabaye, Young, Mata and Aguero, who are players in similar positions bought for similar fees, you can see the difference in what you should expect from players bought for those fees.

Personally I don't really care whether Kenny goes now or at the end of the season. He has to go though. I do not want to see him disgraced in any way, he is a legend and I love him unconditionally. It would be perfect if the club could negotiate this behind closed doors, whether that means his moving upstairs or retiring. But I do have this to add: whenever Kenny goes, Commolli has to go as well.

I never liked Commolli from the start, I don't rate his "talent spotting" abilities in any way. We've had discussions at the time he was appointed regarding his hit rate at Spurs, and he had more failures than successes. I do not know exactly how the transfer business was meant to work, the noises we've heard suggest that Kenny and Commolli are both involved in the decisions. So if Kenny is going to fall on his sword for his transfer dealings, then I'm sorry but Commolli also has to fall.

My choice for next manager is simple: it has to be Rafa. There is no other (realistic choice as) manager that I would rather see in our dugout. He has unfinished business and we have seen with our own eyes that when he had proper support from the board, he was fantastic. If Rafa is in and given full control of transfer dealings, I have no doubt about his ability.

I would also like to see the owners be pragmatic now. They must not dwell on the failure of this season. And that means getting rid of the trash players, even if it's for massive losses. If we have to sell Carroll for £5m, the board need to swallow their pride and do it. Of course Rafa might want to keep some of these players and see what he can do with them, and that's fine. But if he wants to sell to bolster his transfer budget and free up wages, I would like for the board to back him and not worry about the hits we're taking on the transfer fees. In any case, we sold Chelsea a £1m player for £50m, so swings and roundabouts :p.

Rafa please :)

Oh one more thing: we need to keep supporting the team until the end of the season, even if Kenny stays in charge. The FA Cup would be massive for us. And we might be able to have a good run in and climb up the league a bit. Continuing to support the team does not mean we approve of the managerial situation. We can continue to make the board feel the pressure "offline" if you like, through our comments and feedback. I would hope that we do not turn on the team on or leading up to matchdays.

That's all I wanted to say.

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Results in last 7 games Andy Carroll started:

WWDWWWW

Results in last nine games he didn't start:

DDDLLLLLL

Still baffling to me he's getting benched when his performances have warranted starting.

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we've lost 5 of the last 6 league games ffs :D, beyond funny now.

the only reason to keep kenny around now is to maybe let him get us to a fa cup final and have his final moment with us as lifting a trophy. 1) i don't think we'd win it the way we are playing anyway and 2) he doesn't deserve to have that luxury with the club considering the shambles of the last few months.

we'd be best suited for him to step aside now and let rafa get a handle on the squad before the summer. it'd be such an advantage to any manager (not just rafa) to be able to step in now and have a proper look at the players and where we need to go.

just madness to think we'd consider meandering along till the end of the season just to give one man a nice sendoff, and i love dalglish, but the form atm is just crazy ****. he's obviously not the man for the job.

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how tired were Carroll and Maxi? My guess is 'not very'

Indeed. It's not like he came to the ground last week and saw a fixture list for the week ahead and went 'what's all this about' ... the fixtures are the fixtures, plan your team, rotate if you need to, not an entire team but a few key positions here and there and with players like Maxi and Carroll it's ideal for those positions

Lots of excuses coming out atm, never good. No way he's losing his job before summer but be interesting to see what happens, step down or removed but can't imagine fans really want him there come the start of the new season and you're back to where you were before he took over in that 'who will come/do we want/should we get'

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Anyone else feel that Damien Commoli needs to take some of the abuse that KD is getting, he's supposedly the talent spotter for Liverpool and I would guess had a massive amount to do with the signings of Henderson and Carroll.

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Commolli doesn't pick the team. Blaming a guy who is basically a scout for the team's performances, particularly when Dalglish has the final say on transfers, is taking the **** a bit.

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someone started a thread on rawk about how ridiculous it is to sack someone after 14months and so on (it's called Time to plant your flag or something, still there). I asked if he felt the same way about Hodgson. Post deleted and banned for ever. I think that pretty much sums up the whole ethos of the place.

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Sums up the place, one massive circle-jerk for everyone to prove who's #1 top fan.

Anyway, to lighten the mood:

Roy Hodgson says he would have no hesitation in accepting the England job if it were offered to him.

West Brom boss Hodgson is believed to be among the names on the Football Association's shortlist, thought Tottenham manager Harry Redknapp remains the overwhelming favourite.

Asked if he would take the job if offered it, Hodgson told talkSPORT: "Of course - I think that anyone would."

He added: "I don't know that it is an ambition as such. It would be an honour of course if ever the offer came my way, because it's the pinnacle of success in a way and certainly of coaching success if you are ever invited to manage your own country."

Hodgson's candidacy would be stronger were it not for an ill-fated spell with Liverpool that saw him last only half of the 2010-11 season.

However, West Brom midfielder Keith Andrews - a Liverpool fan - feels he would be the perfect successor to Fabio Capello.

"We all hope Roy Hodgson stays at West Brom but he is linked with England for a reason, the reason being he is very good at his job," Andrews said. "If you ask the players here, or players who have played under him at previous clubs, all the feedback is so positive and his enthusiasm and love for the game is very infectious.

"People should not be put off by what happened at Liverpool. I'm a Liverpool fan and I was delighted when he got the job.

"Only the FA will know how much that spell has altered their view on him. I thought he was unfairly treated, and the circumstances and the timing wasn't great when he went into the club.

"It was certainly a transitional period at Liverpool and didn't quite work out but you look at his pedigree and the experience he has, he is an ideal candidate for England.

"He has managed at international level before, he has got the pedigree and personality for it, he can deal with players, and deal with the personalities. If chosen, I'm sure he could do a fantastic job but hopefully he can stick with us and crack on and finished what he has started at West Brom."

Hodgson has the pedigree. :D

I pray they take him, it'll be amazing.

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The only time you should ever go on RAWK is to find football links, transfer rumours and to find the team sheet (can probably be done on twitter now). It's also good to go on there to make you feel better about yourself as a fan, as you have your own opinion and all they do is tag along with the party line.

Horrible forum. TLW is better, but I only ever read them.

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yeah i think i that was about my tenth post on there, and i'd been registered over a year. i mainly just like the photo thread.

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indeed! TLW is bearable, but the best footy forums are generally the ones that aren't team specific.

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Stuck some stats up on RAWK about comparing Hodgson's 20 league games in charge of us against Kenny's last 20 league games in charge:

Roy:

P20 W7 D4 L9 Pts25

Kenny:

P20 W6 D6 L8 Pts24

Still there are scores of fans who seem to ignore the levels of shitness we have fell to and think Kenny will bring back the glory days - shaking my f***ing head indeed!

How far does the club need to fall down the league before there is an acceptance by some fans that this is not good enough?

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Have you been banned yet

Not yet, but then I try to avoid posting what I really think of Kenny's reign as manager this season.

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Players we bought and who they were replaced with:

Downing - N'Zogbia (for less money)

Henderson - Larsson (for less money)

Adam - Shelvey until we recalled him (for less money)

Carroll - Ba (for less money)

The question is, if we'd bought N'Zogbia, Larsson, Ba and started Shelvey instead of Adam all season, would we be doing any better?

Downing, Adam, Carroll have all had periods of time where they've scored and/or created goals in the Premiership if we swapped them for another group of similar ability/price players who are currently scoring/creating goals, would they do better or would they also drop in form? If so, you've got to point the finger at the management rather than the player quality.

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Here's my favourite RAWK post:

Not being funny mate but your totally out of your depth – comparing Roy and Kenny?... it's pretty embarrassing. Have you any idea what Kenny means to our city?

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N'Zog has looked pretty rubbish this season too, but hard to tell how good any one is at Villa these days (same for us in a way). Other 3 are better choices though

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Here's my favourite RAWK post:

reckon we should just get Kenny back on the pitch, with Rush. i mean do you know how good they were?

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Here's my favourite RAWK post:

Superb.

I doubt it was around during the Souness reign, wonder what they think of Souness' tenure

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Here's my favourite RAWK post:
Not being funny mate but your totally out of your depth – comparing Roy and Kenny?... it's pretty embarrassing. Have you any idea what Kenny means to our city?

What's bizarre about that is that Kenny can still mean everything they want him to in the city. No reason he can't be that as an ambassador, just as he was prior to managing. But he doesn't have to bring a side backwards because of stubborn loyalty.

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Superb.

I doubt it was around during the Souness reign, wonder what they think of Souness' tenure

Oh they'll be vindicated there no doubt because Souness sold his story to the Sun.

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N'Zog has looked pretty rubbish this season too, but hard to tell how good any one is at Villa these days (same for us in a way). Other 3 are better choices though

We're so horrific this season it's hard to judge Zog fairly. He's been doing ok lately and I have a hunch that if we didn't have such a horror show of a manager he'd have performed a lot better for us. He's got the ability. He just needs to be managed properly.

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Liverpool Managers Record over the last 20 league games in charge before leaving/sacked:

Kenny Dalglish (still in charge):

P20 W6 D6 L8 Pts24

Roy Hodgson:

P20 W7 D4 L9 Pts25

Rafael Benitez:

P20 W10 D6 L4 Pts36

Gerard Houllier:

P20 W9 D7 L4 Pts34

Gerard Houllier/Roy Evans (only together for 12 games):

P12 W4 D4 L4 Pts16

Roy Evans:

P20 W9 D7 L4 Pts34

Graeme Souness:

P20 W8 D7 L5 Pts31

Kenny's current record is abysmal, even worse than Hodgson ffs.

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Is that also an inadvertent advertisement for Rafa to come back too? 36 points out of 60 available and still getting the sack is criminal despite any circumstances.

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Yep, Dalglish is deep into sacking territory with this form...

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What dickheads wanted Rafa out in the first place?

I didn't, I wanted to to keep him.

I also wanted you to keep Houllier and I really want you to keep Kenny as long as possible

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I didn't, I wanted to to keep him.

I also wanted you to keep Houllier and I really want you to keep Kenny as long as possible

You bloody United fans :p

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i'd take rafa back, ive never hidden the fact, shouldnt have been sacked in the first place and when i used to ask who we'd replace him with who was better alls i got was 'anyone!', 'anyone would do a better job than rafa...'. well that didnt quite work out did it? and these are the same fans who wont have a word said about kenny and they still want him to carry on and see out his contract.

these uber fans are like the blind leading the blind, cant they see that the club is spiralling towards becoming a mid table also ran for years to come with this current set of players. the set of players that kenny bought. he spent £45m on 3 midfielders that have contributed virtually nothing and in reality should only have cost £20m ish. adam found his level at blackpool i think and was never good enough for many of us before we signed him, hendo is more one for the future and downings took 8 months to even start to settle and he still never sorted out the right side, even in january when it was obvious we needed to get at least 1 player in, he didnt and i havent even touched on £35m carroll yet.

kennys made his bed and he has to lie in it. he made awful buys first time round when the squad he inherited started to get old and hes done it again this time round. even if comolli can take some of the blame this time round, kenny still must shoulder the lions share.

we need a new man in with new ideas who can get the best out of the players that kenny hasnt even managed to do. rafa had us punching above our weight for a time but hodgson and kenny have had us punching below our weight. its just not acceptable for any manager to underperform so badly let alone LFC and if it wasnt for it being kenny i think he would have been sacked last night.

im not saying rafas the only man for the job and if we can finds someone better then great, but im 100% certain hes a better man to have than dalglish thats for sure. the mind boggles at what rafa could have done with £100m to spend.

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With 100m Rafa would no doubt have spent 10-15m on a dud from somewhere. But he'd have also signed 3-4 absolute gems for big money too, all a class or two above Downing, Henderson and Carroll. He got so much more right than wrong during his time here.

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