paperclips Posted January 22, 2012 Share Posted January 22, 2012 Only turn up for the big games. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhino Posted January 22, 2012 Share Posted January 22, 2012 Not going to be long before a trip to Wigan IS a big match for us. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony7 Posted January 22, 2012 Share Posted January 22, 2012 Only turn up for the big games. I think it's because them teams set up happy for a point and our style of play and players along with the slow tempo struggles to break teams down while the top teams come at us. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
paperclips Posted January 22, 2012 Share Posted January 22, 2012 Think one of our problems has been we set up not to get beat(worry about the other team to much) instead of putting out a team to go out and beat the opposition. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony7 Posted January 22, 2012 Share Posted January 22, 2012 Think one of our problems has been we set up not to get beat(worry about the other team to much) instead of putting out a team to go out and beat the opposition. Agreed x 1000 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rafalution Posted January 22, 2012 Author Share Posted January 22, 2012 Rafalution sticks out, but there were others. I'd prefer to see Rafa back, I genuinely feel he was finally beginning to build the team he wanted before his final transfer windows and final season were horribly hamstrung by H&G. But that's always been my viewpoint, unlike others I'm not flipping on it based on 365 days or so. People really need to learn patience.Also finding this "100M" a bit baffling. Wage saving plus Torres transfer alone covers that. my post about being happy about having rafa back was purely in a rafa vs kenny capacity. i would rather have neither. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
paperclips Posted January 22, 2012 Share Posted January 22, 2012 Igor Biscan as player manager? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeafParrot Posted January 22, 2012 Share Posted January 22, 2012 Hyypia, with Didi Hamann as assistant and Vladimir Smicer first team coach. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emersonlfc Posted January 22, 2012 Share Posted January 22, 2012 Smicer such a cool cat. Anyone else cheering on Utd this afternoon Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kopite Posted January 22, 2012 Share Posted January 22, 2012 Smicer such a cool cat.Anyone else cheering on Utd this afternoon In a word, No. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
paperclips Posted January 22, 2012 Share Posted January 22, 2012 Draw would be decent. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Select_screen_name: Posted January 22, 2012 Share Posted January 22, 2012 Both lose. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rafalution Posted January 22, 2012 Author Share Posted January 22, 2012 not gonna cheer utd, but obv a utd win or a draw would be a good result Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony7 Posted January 22, 2012 Share Posted January 22, 2012 Smicer such a cool cat.Anyone else cheering on Utd this afternoon Why cheer United on? Liverpool have only won back to back games twice this season so there is no way we will get top 4 four and only 1 win in our last 6. Let's not delude ourselves we won't finish top 5 and no point in gloating when other top teams drop points because we never take advantage. Spurs drew with Wolves last week and lost to City today yet we have not made up any ground on them while Fulham and Swansea have beaten Arsenal in last 2 games we made up 1 point on them. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jongi Posted January 22, 2012 Share Posted January 22, 2012 Think one of our problems has been we set up not to get beat(worry about the other team to much) instead of putting out a team to go out and beat the opposition. i am not sure i totally agree with this. nominally, the formations kenny was chosen in the main are not defensive. we can only call them cautious in the sense often there is one main striker. but then a number of other teams you wouldn't accuse of being cautious do the same. the problem is the personnel. well and things like how subs are made. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony7 Posted January 22, 2012 Share Posted January 22, 2012 i am not sure i totally agree with this.nominally, the formations kenny was chosen in the main are not defensive. we can only call them cautious in the sense often there is one main striker. but then a number of other teams you wouldn't accuse of being cautious do the same. the problem is the personnel. well and things like how subs are made. When I am watching Liverpool play the midfield are set up to support the defence and sit deep rather than push up and support the strikers. When Liverpool played Wigan away the other week or top teams we close them down quickly and high up the pitch but after 25 mins at Wigan we sat deep and Wigan got more and more into the game and looked more likely to score. Liverpool have to start closing down further up the pitch and move the ball about quicker. If Newcastle finish above Liverpool it will be a disgrace. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jongi Posted January 22, 2012 Share Posted January 22, 2012 When I am watching Liverpool play the midfield are set up to support the defence and sit deep rather than push up and support the strikers. When Liverpool played Wigan away the other week or top teams we close them down quickly and high up the pitch but after 25 mins at Wigan we sat deep and Wigan got more and more into the game and looked more likely to score.Liverpool have to start closing down further up the pitch and move the ball about quicker. If Newcastle finish above Liverpool it will be a disgrace. i think again this is showing up how poorly the team has been constructed. iirc that was after lucas was injured. maybe it is also an indictment on kenny that he then doesn't know how to set up a midfield when he doesn't have the "hardman". but do you think what you have described has been the norm under kenny? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rafalution Posted January 22, 2012 Author Share Posted January 22, 2012 Given we have the best defence in the league, when attacking players aren't getting forward and into the box because they are being cautious, I'd say that that was a defensive tactic. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
paperclips Posted January 22, 2012 Share Posted January 22, 2012 Doesn't help that we play Pepe as our target man/playmaker Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jongi Posted January 22, 2012 Share Posted January 22, 2012 Given we have the best defence in the league, when attacking players aren't getting forward and into the box because they are being cautious, I'd say that that was a defensive tactic. so when we were crap at finishing and seeing how many times we could hit the bar/post we were playing defensive tactics? i honestly can't remember there being a clamouring about negative/cautious tactics earlier on this season. nor when kenny took over last season. was that us lapping up kenny or is it now us revising history? edit - while i think it is not a good reason to sack kenny, i wouldn't say i would be gutted if he was. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
paperclips Posted January 22, 2012 Share Posted January 22, 2012 The Stoke game stands out for me. I think at home we were Vs Sunderland. Think them kind of performances continued and then got worse. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rafalution Posted January 22, 2012 Author Share Posted January 22, 2012 Our tactics and performances with Carroll operate quite differently than with Suarez. Are you saying Kenny's tactics can only be defensive now if they have also been for the last year? We played entirely different tactics last season for instance That said even earlier in the season there were plenty of complaints in here about Suarez not getting the support. Couldn't care less about hitting the post because most of those weren't from clear cut chances, they were half shots or outside the area, we very rarely get the ball to someone's feet in the area with them having the opportunity for a first time shot. Carroll's lack of creative ability makes this far more noticeable than with Suarez. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Select_screen_name: Posted January 22, 2012 Share Posted January 22, 2012 Just watching United now shows the importance of having pacey creative wingers. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rafalution Posted January 22, 2012 Author Share Posted January 22, 2012 And those wingers often having 5+ options in the box (i counted 6 in the box and 2 just outside on two occasions) Would love for us to get a proper attacking manager. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Northeu Posted January 22, 2012 Share Posted January 22, 2012 The funny thing is Rafa WAS considered an Attacking manager by both the Valencia and inter fans Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rafalution Posted January 22, 2012 Author Share Posted January 22, 2012 and he kinda was early on here too (Garcia!), but we went increasingly defensive over the years. i actually think if he did come back we'd quite possibly see the more attacking side, but i'd rather go for someone where we know it'll be the case. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bell Posted January 22, 2012 Share Posted January 22, 2012 Our defensive quality this season was mainly in the period before Lucas was injured. In that period we never conceded more than a single goal a game, excluding Spurs when we had 9 men. Since then we have had some terrible defensive performances and its plain to see that just about any team is able to cut through our midfield at will, despite us having the majority of possession. It shows a lack of squad depth that we have only 1 player in such an important position and it doesn't seem that Kenny has any idea how to plug this gap. Someone who is drilled defensively needs to play there. A centre-half needs converted. It's pointless playing Gerrard and Adam there as neither have the engine or desire to defend and it's certainly not what we want Henderson to be doing as his tackling is too lightweight. That's the biggest problem IMO, but it needs solved and only the boss can do that. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeafParrot Posted January 22, 2012 Share Posted January 22, 2012 I don't think he was ever as defensive as people loved to make out. We played better football under him than I can remember from anyone in my lifetime, and that includes Roy Evans teams. He had the balance right until his final season when we simply didn't have the personnel to play the way he wanted. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Select_screen_name: Posted January 22, 2012 Share Posted January 22, 2012 Lob Agger defensive mid to beast the midfield in a Yaya fashion. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony7 Posted January 22, 2012 Share Posted January 22, 2012 Dalglish has always been cautious, I remember when we played Arsenal at Highbury and had 9 defenders in the line up just like City the other week in the second half. Ask the Newcastle fans if Dalglish was attacking, he won the league at Blackburn but they were set up as a team hard to break down and just hope that Shearer would snatch a goal. Dalglish was in charge of the most exciting Liverpool side for 3 years in the late 80s but other than them 3 years he was always cautious example when Arsenal came to Liverpool and needed to win by 2 goals. I think Rafa attracts top players and his record is good in the transfer market (ones that cost a decent fee that is) but he also set us up as tough to beat and attack on counter. Year we finished second behind United we were playing the best football I have seen from a Liverpool side since the 80s but it was from february to may when we were playing catch up to United and clear of 3rd place. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
paperclips Posted January 22, 2012 Share Posted January 22, 2012 Didn't think Rafa was that defensive just thought he wanted to control the game via keeping the ball. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeafParrot Posted January 22, 2012 Share Posted January 22, 2012 Bell, that was still only the second time we've conceded more than 1 goal in a match since Lucas got injured. We've actually kept more clean sheets since Lucas got injured than whilst he was still with us. 4 before he got injured, one in the game he suffered the injury, 5 since. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony7 Posted January 22, 2012 Share Posted January 22, 2012 I don't think he was ever as defensive as people loved to make out. We played better football under him than I can remember from anyone in my lifetime, and that includes Roy Evans teams. He had the balance right until his final season when we simply didn't have the personnel to play the way he wanted. Best football we have played over a period of time was under Roy he set us up to win every game no matter the opponents but dodgy keeper and defence stopped us winning the title. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Northeu Posted January 22, 2012 Share Posted January 22, 2012 Much like the pool of players we can get tho, the pool of managers we can get is shrinking too. If you looked at his CV without the name at the top from 2001-2008 its difficult to argue with his quality. I was firmly in the keep Rafa camp because I understood the limitations weren't with a lack of ability but with the external factors surrounding the club, But then I would have Given Evans another year and houllier too so what do I know. I guess it comes down to 6th-7th is unacceptable, an average manager should get that with the resources we have spent. Still nor sure i want Rafa back mind not because of his ability but because we really really could do with a season without drama. Not that it would be his fault but you just know certain sections of the fan base and media will have their knives out and not give him a couple of years to put right the wrongs of the last two. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rafalution Posted January 22, 2012 Author Share Posted January 22, 2012 Think the job Spearing did there is undervalued by many Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Northeu Posted January 22, 2012 Share Posted January 22, 2012 Best football we have played over a period of time was under Roy he set us up to win every game no matter the opponents but dodgy keeper and defence stopped us winning the title. Actually a bunch of talented players that didn't give a damn half the time stopped us winning the league, not that i'm still bitter or anything Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeafParrot Posted January 22, 2012 Share Posted January 22, 2012 Best football we have played over a period of time was under Roy he set us up to win every game no matter the opponents but dodgy keeper and defence stopped us winning the title. Exactly. So we didn't play the best football then. We were ultra attacking and paid the price constantly. Rafa had us set up to play a more balanced game. It wasn't negative, it wasn't defensive. The amount of high scoring wins we had proves that. Not only was he more tactically astute, the actual interplay between us was at times really good. I enjoyed watching our matches. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rafalution Posted January 22, 2012 Author Share Posted January 22, 2012 That season we finished 2nd was fantastic. The back to back 4-4s and the 5-1 win over Newcastle stand out, as well of course the 4-1 at OT, and Aurelio's free kick Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaptainPlanet Posted January 22, 2012 Share Posted January 22, 2012 That season we finished 2nd was fantastic. The back to back 4-4s and the 5-1 win over Newcastle stand out, as well of course the 4-1 at OT, and Aurelio's free kick I can't cope with too many of those seasons, way too bad for my health... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony7 Posted January 22, 2012 Share Posted January 22, 2012 Exactly. So we didn't play the best football then. We were ultra attacking and paid the price constantly. Rafa had us set up to play a more balanced game. It wasn't negative, it wasn't defensive. The amount of high scoring wins we had proves that. Not only was he more tactically astute, the actual interplay between us was at times really good. I enjoyed watching our matches. I enjoyed watching us under Roy. 6-1 away to Crystal Palace, 4-3 Newcastle, 2-2 away to United in Cantona's return game we were prob the best footballing side. Nearly £50 a ticket I want to see us play with some flair, enjoy a game be buzzing with the way we are playing. Even in our home wins this season we struggled Wolves 2-1, QPR 1-0. Newcastle we played decent football second half. Why do we have to wait until last 10 mins to throw everything at teams? If you start slow it's hard pick it up a gear or two thats why you should fly out the traps and take the game to teams. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony7 Posted January 22, 2012 Share Posted January 22, 2012 I can't cope with too many of those seasons, way too bad for my health... Tell me about it. I watched the Fulham game where we scored in last min at the pub loads of Liverpool fans were being mocked by United fans in the pub then we just went mental when benayoun scored. I was in the kop in the 4-4 game with Arsenal, I couldn't bare to watch but that's what football is all about for LFC not going through the motions hoping we can at least scrape 6th place. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jongi Posted January 22, 2012 Share Posted January 22, 2012 That season we finished 2nd was fantastic. The back to back 4-4s and the 5-1 win over Newcastle stand out, as well of course the 4-1 at OT, and Aurelio's free kick it wasn't fantastic. there was a period from around november when we were clear and lost that badly. leading up to that we played some pretty bad football and scraped wins. in fact, the spell of football from about late jan was the only time rafa ever unleashed any of his teams. and even then we were really hoping that united would slip up which they didn't. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rafalution Posted January 22, 2012 Author Share Posted January 22, 2012 i was talking about in terms of entertainment, even early on in the season there were some great matches (Torres' double against everton, the win at home against Man Utd), though yes, performance wise it was the 2nd half of the season. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rafalution Posted January 22, 2012 Author Share Posted January 22, 2012 Just been thinking about who I'd like to come in. No one in England stands out for me. Rudi Garcia of Lille would be near perfect. Great attacking football, successful, European experience and young. I've watched a fair bit of highlights this season due to Cole being there and there is some fantastic movement and passing going on at times. Komboaurne might also be a good option and is without club. Not really paid enough attention to Bundesliga to know who's doing what there this season. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jongi Posted January 22, 2012 Share Posted January 22, 2012 i was talking about in terms of entertainment, even early on in the season there were some great matches (Torres' double against everton, the win at home against Man Utd), though yes, performance wise it was the 2nd half of the season. but even in the first half there were plenty matches where we won but we were playing pretty crap. there was a great deal of frustration before the period when we played some breath taking football. forced out of necessity. and when you really look back at that season and how we performed from late jan or so, it clearly goes to show that we lost the league through the crap performances in around nov/dec. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rafalution Posted January 22, 2012 Author Share Posted January 22, 2012 oh without a doubt it was that bit that cost us, but early on, while there were some really bad performances there were also a fair few really good ones. consistency was the main issue that first half, as opposed to now when we are consistently average. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
foofighter23 Posted January 22, 2012 Share Posted January 22, 2012 one thing i hope this has had an effect on is that it makes kenny realise we have to sign at least 2 players before the window closes. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Guy From The Sunny Place Posted January 22, 2012 Share Posted January 22, 2012 Only Mourinho can turn this club around accompanied with a clear out of the personnel. Something pushes non British players out the club, especially non-Northern Europeans. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rafalution Posted January 22, 2012 Author Share Posted January 22, 2012 what? only Mourinho? what nonsense. i also don't get what you mean by the second bit Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Northeu Posted January 22, 2012 Share Posted January 22, 2012 Yeah Mourinho, that would be exciting attacking football The thing with the season we finished second was, yes the football wasn't great for periods, but no team plays fantastic for a whole season and to "expect" that would be silly. But there were positives even when mistakes might have been made or we lacked the squad to compete over a 50 game season, You can bemoan rotation but rotation kept the squad fresh enough to perform at the end of the season, what was criminal was there not being the backing to add and improve to that squad the next year. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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