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The npower championship thread 2011/12

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MIR17

MIR17

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I reckon Beattie could still do a job given a run of games. It was only 2 or 3 years ago he was scoring goals for fun in this division for SheffUtd. He's hardly a player built around his pace or fitness, so he can't have lost that much in that time could he?

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Phil Holden

Phil Holden

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Just got home to find out Wade Elliott has left, but not to Nottm Forest though, which he was rumoured to be joining.

Got alot of good years out of Wadie, not bad for a free signing by SC. :thup:

Getting on abit now, so maybe the right time to let him go.

I disagree. I'm absolutely fuming about this one, possibly more so than I was about Danny Fox. Wade may be getting on, but he's still a more than capable backup player in a squad that is painfully short on numbers. He was probably the best crosser of the ball in our team and also capable of playing in the middle, where we are especially short. This transfer just doesn't make sense to me at all. I understand that Wade might not have been too happy about his time on the pitch being reduced, but there's no way we should have let him go, imo.

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robterrace

robterrace

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would anymore be revealed today or are we totally shot? ie do the media rely on clubs releasing the information or does it come from the league?

*straw clutching*

Going from a conversation I had last night (after the window had shut) it appears that Forest are looking to loan signings. Doughty has been going on about the upcoming Financial Fair Play rules, and how they will affect clubs next season. He's right in a lot of ways, and I think he may get proven right on this, but I don't know what effect it will have on McClarens future, although, I did see some bright sparks last night posting some awful abuse on Twitter towards Doughty, McClaren and anyone who didn't 'share the same view'.

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Dean Gripton

Dean Gripton

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I disagree. I'm absolutely fuming about this one, possibly more so than I was about Danny Fox. Wade may be getting on, but he's still a more than capable backup player in a squad that is painfully short on numbers. He was probably the best crosser of the ball in our team and also capable of playing in the middle, where we are especially short. This transfer just doesn't make sense to me at all. I understand that Wade might not have been too happy about his time on the pitch being reduced, but there's no way we should have let him go, imo.

Very encouraged by this post, thanks Phil.

Shame we couldnt afford Turner even after all our sales.

Beckford's a brilliant signing for Leicester.

Bogdanovic by far the worst signing of the day.

Baldock will be a super player.

Here's one that could come back to haunt me, but here goes. I dont think ALF will be a success at Reading. *awaits response from Gricehead*

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MrDiCanio

MrDiCanio

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Well happy with our day's dealings. Such a ridiculous squad now though, top 2 is even more of a necessity.

Can't see any Faubert/Collison/Piquionne/Sears getting anywhere near the squad now, which is mad really.

Not too bothered about losing Stanislas, hes a decent prospect thats stalled a bit, but with Bentley, Demel, Lansbury, Collison and Faubert all capable of playing there he wont get much football with us.

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Phil Holden

Phil Holden

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Very encouraged by this post, thanks Phil.

You a brum fan, Gripper? I think you've got a good, experienced championship level player on your hands. Good passer of the ball, even better crosser and can still turn on a 50p piece. Not as effective through the middle as he is out on the wing, but still capable. Quite a cheeky chappie at times as well. I'll miss him.

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MIR17

MIR17

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was yakubu taking the **** when he said the history of blackburn rovers was really great? :D

yeah 94-95 makes alot of history :cool:

They were the best team in the country back in the 1890s or whenever. So, they do have a great history, just from before anyone was born. I think they're actually as high as like 7th or 8th in the list of English clubs with the most trophies.

you've got yourself a hero, i'll admit i'm jealous would have loved his return

hope he gets the reception he deserves at ER

As long as he scores goals for us, I'll be happy. :)

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GG17

GG17

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Whats the deal with Puncheon? Seems like he's highly rated enough for Prem teams to want him yet deemed not good enough for Southampton? To the point that they've sent him out on loan last 2 seasons.

He has this fantastic ability to start well at every club he goes too but eventually becomes too frustrating and inconsistent to hold down a first team place (especially with the emergence of Chamberlain) which leads him to getting the hump and apparently acting like a tool which then leads him to being completely bombed out and eventually put out on loan where the cycle starts again and he impresses (See his spells at Millwall and Blackpool) but before the next phase happens the loan is over and he's back with us looking for his next deal.

Guarantee he starts well at QPR and they sign him on a permanent basis in January but by the end of the season he's not in the team but has earned himself a bit of a rep that he can fall back on and earn his next move with.

It didn't help him in anyway that we had two potential premier league players playing in wide positions for us in League One.

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Wiggins Top Boys

Wiggins Top Boys

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i love how beckford is now supposedly a "brilliant" player

funny how when he was at leeds nobody rated him but leeds fans, :D

even leicester went as far as saying matty fryatt was better whilst we was both in league 1, i wonder what their opinions are now

ah the bias of a football fan :cool:

he's a bottle job and he always will be.

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Matthew Le God

Matthew Le God

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Whats the deal with Puncheon? Seems like he's highly rated enough for Prem teams to want him yet deemed not good enough for Southampton? To the point that they've sent him out on loan last 2 seasons.

He fell out with the management last season when he was dropped for a 17 year old (Alex Chamberlain) who is a lot better than him and Puncheon isn't as good as Adam Lallana on the other wing. Allegedly he refused to go to an away match to sit on the bench, had a big argument with assistant manager Andy Crosby and was then loaned out to Millwall and Blackpool. Had it been Lallana or Chamberlain loaned to a Premier League side last seaosn, they would have shone even more so than Puncheon did.

Puncheon is clearly talented, but has an attitude problem and deemed surplus to requirements at St Mary's.

Lallana, Guly Do Prado and De Ridder all ahead of him in the pecking order for wingers this season even with Chamberlain sold.

Quite a negative tone to the headline and article for a player departing on loan...! :D

http://www.saintsfc.co.uk/page/NewsDetail/0,,10280~2438739,00.html

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GG17

GG17

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he's a bottle job and he always will be.

I've never rated him either really. I certainly didn't want him coming to us and I would have happily said that had he joined. (Although I ofcourse would have taken it all back if he played well).

I remember when he came up against us in League One, him and Becchio were the most feared in league. Came with these huge (League One) reputations and Becchio managed to make nearly all of his second touches a tackle and Beckford spent most of the afternoon on the floor. Obviously can't really judge him solely on one game but I also remember thinking if he hadn't had scored that goal at Old Trafford he'd never have been so publicised. Reports had him for the other game that year as having a similar off day and throwing a tantrum when he got subbed off.

Decent goal scorer but always reminded me of Rasiak, in that he'd do nothing much else but score. While not necessarily a bad thing it's a frustrating one.

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Matthew Le God

Matthew Le God

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All attitude with Puncheon then. Wondered with Saints selling AOC why they would let him go but just seems like he's pissed everyone off there.

Even with Chamberlain gone, Saints have Adam Lallana, Guly Do Prado and Steve De Ridder still ahead of him in the pecking order. Even if he stayed he wouldn't see much game time.

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MIR17

MIR17

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Decent goal scorer but always reminded me of Rasiak, in that he'd do nothing much else but score. While not necessarily a bad thing it's a frustrating one.

His goalscoring record with Leeds was a lot more than "decent."

And I've always found that "all he does is score goals" attitude to be utterly hilarious. It's like saying of your goalkeeper "all he does is stop goals going in." It's his job to score goals.

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Barkermush

Barkermush

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I disagree. I'm absolutely fuming about this one, possibly more so than I was about Danny Fox. Wade may be getting on, but he's still a more than capable backup player in a squad that is painfully short on numbers. He was probably the best crosser of the ball in our team and also capable of playing in the middle, where we are especially short. This transfer just doesn't make sense to me at all. I understand that Wade might not have been too happy about his time on the pitch being reduced, but there's no way we should have let him go, imo.

Yeah I was gutted when I found out he had gone, a very good player for us Wadie and it won't be the same without him.

But he's been on the bench alot in recent times and seemed out of favour with EH.

Crazy that we sold him, 1 in and 1 out yesterday. No strength in depth whatso ever, especially in midfield.

I think Elliott will be a Burnley legend forever, got alot of good seasons out of him. I was at the Bournemouth FA Cup game when he tore us apart that day and he looked special.

But maybe, now we have Stanislas, a young winger who's played at U-21 level with england, it's time for a new generation.

But, we could have done with Wade's experience in there with this young team we have now.

One of the best crossers I've seen, but ever since our promotion season and we signed Eagles, he's never really been played out on the wing which is a shame.

But he still did more than a decent job in the centre, with his deadly spins and direct runs through the middle.

I think Eddie Howe is making a big change at Burnley, getting rid of alot of the older players (which he always said he wanted to do once he came here) and replacing them with younger players with raw ability, and hopefully it pays off for the years to come.

We could have really done without losing another midfielder at this moment in time though, imo we really needed to bring in another midfielder, and we could have done with another centre back.

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Phil Holden

Phil Holden

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I think you're bob on there. He will go down as a Burnley legend, even if for nothing else other than scoring the goal that put us in the Premier League. I think he runs Glenn Little very close for the title of best winger we've had in the past 10-20 years, maybe even the past 30 years. I didn't start watching the clarets until 1994, but I can't imagine there being too many better players than him during our barren years in the 80s. He will certainly be missed.

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GG17

GG17

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His goalscoring record with Leeds was a lot more than "decent."

And I've always found that "all he does is score goals" attitude to be utterly hilarious. It's like saying of your goalkeeper "all he does is stop goals going in." It's his job to score goals.

Try watching Rasiak play for your team then you'll appreciate the 'all he does is score goals" attitude. He managed to get goals but christ he was one of the worst players I've had the pleasure to watch. If it's stuck on a plate for him then great but other than that it's painful. Personally I want my strikers to contribute to the team play, not just by scoring goals.

Comparing Beckford to Rasiak is probably well over the top to be fair. No doubt he'll get goals and as those videos prove some sublime ones too but I'm glad he's not joined us because I just don't see anything else to his game other than a bit of a pace. Even watching those videos confirmed to me his touch is pretty average.

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MIR17

MIR17

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Try watching Rasiak play for your team then you'll appreciate the 'all he does is score goals" attitude. He managed to get goals but christ he was one of the worst players I've had the pleasure to watch. If it's stuck on a plate for him then great but other than that it's painful. Personally I want my strikers to contribute to the team play, not just by scoring goals.

I'll never appreciate that attitude. It doesn't just consistently get "stuck on a plate" for a player by luck. A striker doesn't consistently get into goalscoring opportunities by luck alone.

If a striker is scoring goals how is he not contributing to team play? Is that not one of the most important things a player can contribute to a team: putting the ball in the back of the net? What else do you mean by "contributing to the team play"?

Comparing Beckford to Rasiak is probably well over the top to be fair. No doubt he'll get goals and as those videos prove some sublime ones too but I'm glad he's not joined us because I just don't see anything else to his game other than a bit of a pace. Even watching those videos confirmed to me his touch is pretty average.

So what? If he is an effective player because of his pace, why does it matter whether that's all his game is about?

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GG17

GG17

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Obviously it's not luck, I appreciate the movement and awareness is awesome of players like that but by "contributing to team play" I mean, I want a striker to help create some goals too.

I much prefer watching a player who is technically good enough to get involved in some build up play, create for himself and for others. Having just one trick is great up to a point but you don't think having a striker who has more than just his pace is better to watch? It's certainly more entertaining and in the long run more effective.

Pace is great, but in a relatively limited side it can be nullified by a pretty decent defence and tactically set up side. Trust me, having watched us last season come up against teams who came and sat incredibly deep with 4 5 1 formations and looking to nullify any service to Lambert and any space for Lallana to cut inside too, I know that having more than just one attribute is incredibly effective. We had to start working on other aspects of our game, and Lambert couldn't just rely on Lambert being good in the air and being able to shoot from anywhere, he had to become a better player and start creating for others, start getting fitter. Now we are playing teams who are slightly more open we're able to open them up (you included by all accounts at times).

Don't even think I'm making much sense now. :D

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MIR17

MIR17

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Obviously it's not luck, I appreciate the movement and awareness is awesome of players like that but by "contributing to team play" I mean, I want a striker to help create some goals too.

I much prefer watching a player who is technically good enough to get involved in some build up play, create for himself and for others. Having just one trick is great up to a point but you don't think having a striker who has more than just his pace is better to watch? It's certainly more entertaining and in the long run more effective.

Does that work for other positions as well? Do you want goalkeepers to score goals too? Do you want centre backs to create goals too? Do you want playmaking midfielder to save goals too? Honestly, goal scoring centre forwards and goal poachers get a ridiculously bad wrap. It seems it's the only position on the pitch where a fan isn't happy if he's doing his job and wants him to do more, especially considering he's doing probably the most important job on the pitch. People don't seem put the same expectation of wanting other players who are on the pitch to do a specific job to things other than their job. A team is about 11 players doing different jobs to work on each others' strengths and weaknesses.

And nope, I'm not bothered one bit if a striker is all about pace if he's scoring every other game. There's still nothing better in football for me than the rush of emotion on seeing your team put the ball in the back of the net.

Pace is great, but in a relatively limited side it can be nullified by a pretty decent defence and tactically set up side. Trust me, having watched us last season come up against teams who came and sat incredibly deep with 4 5 1 formations and looking to nullify any service to Lambert and any space for Lallana to cut inside too, I know that having more than just one attribute is incredibly effective. We had to start working on other aspects of our game, and Lambert couldn't just rely on Lambert being good in the air and being able to shoot from anywhere, he had to become a better player and start creating for others, start getting fitter. Now we are playing teams who are slightly more open we're able to open them up (you included by all accounts at times).

Don't even think I'm making much sense now. :D

If Beckford could be nullified as easily as you say, then he wouldn't have scored anywhere near many goals in his time. Many people said Michael Owen was all about pace in his prime and did teams play openly with high attacking lines against Liverpool back then? If not, why did he score so many goals? Same thing has be said about Javier Hernandez with ManUtd right now.

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GG17

GG17

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When he's scoring goals then yeah fantastic, all hail the striker. When he stops though, ask yourself what is he doing? When he's not getting a sniff because he's not holding the ball up and therefore the team is hardly in possession then is he useful? When your side is struggling is he going to step up and be good enough to make a difference? At that point I'd much prefer someone on the side who is able to be good enough to help keep hold of the ball or bring something else to the team.

Not necessarily Beckford himself by the way. He's clearly capable of scoring out of nothing and some moments of magic but the very limited (and I said that in my first post) times I have seen him, he seems like an incredibly frustrating player when things are not going the teams way. Like I said, I saw him play in a game which the opposition dominated and he spent the majority of the game throwing a paddy, on the floor trying to win free kicks or giving the ball away and moaning some more.

And to answer your question about other positions then yes players who can contribute in more than one way are preferable to ones who can't. I prefer Fonte to Jaidi because Fonte is so much more comfortable on the ball and can help build play from the back. It's better than watching someone lump it forward and then watching us try to build an attack from there. For me personally I think better technical and more composed players are better to watch. The whole team benefits from defenders being good on the ball and midfielders being good in both boxes, just as the whole them benefits from strikers who can contribute to build up play.

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Pukey

Pukey

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I've never rated him either really. I certainly didn't want him coming to us and I would have happily said that had he joined. (Although I ofcourse would have taken it all back if he played well).

I remember when he came up against us in League One, him and Becchio were the most feared in league. Came with these huge (League One) reputations and Becchio managed to make nearly all of his second touches a tackle and Beckford spent most of the afternoon on the floor. Obviously can't really judge him solely on one game but I also remember thinking if he hadn't had scored that goal at Old Trafford he'd never have been so publicised. Reports had him for the other game that year as having a similar off day and throwing a tantrum when he got subbed off.

Decent goal scorer but always reminded me of Rasiak, in that he'd do nothing much else but score. While not necessarily a bad thing it's a frustrating one.

He obviously had a bad day against you, which every player is capable of. Pretty sure our whole performance against you at your place was pretty poor as well, not just Beckford. He'll score bucket loads at this level.

And as for bottling it, he's scored in some pretty big games. Bristol Rovers (our biggest game in recent years) and Manchester United for us, Liverpool and Chelsea for Everton. I'm quite jealous he's gone to Leicester tbh. I love the man. His goals got us promoted after all.

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SCIAG

SCIAG

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Glenn Little

I'm very sorry, but I'm going to go on a rant, because people spelling Glen Little's first name with two ns is one of my pet hates, especially if they support Burnley or Glentoran or Reading.

Actually, that sentence means I don't need to rant, which is a good thing, because I wanted to express my frustration without making you feel like I was taking it out on you, which I wasn't.

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