Powlay Posted March 2, 2012 Author Share Posted March 2, 2012 IF it did happen Pompey would enter into the non-leagues at a fairly high level, possibly even the Conference itself. They wouldn't enter at the same level that the likes of FC United and AFC Wimbledon did tbh. What makes you say that? There is nothing at all to show that a newly formed side would be allowed anywhere near the conference. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew Le God Posted March 2, 2012 Share Posted March 2, 2012 Powlay, I believe Pompey supporters trust has had meetings with the Conference which have suggested a restart as high as tier 5 or 6 might happen. Southampton fan groups received similar responses when there was the possibility Southampton might go under in 2009. The difference between them and AFC Wimbledon or FC United is the later two are protest clubs against MK Dons and Man Utd respectively. Both Man Utd and MK Dons still exist where as a AFC Portsmouth would be a reborn club for Portsmouth. Not sure I entirely agree with some of the logic used for either case when Saints and Pompey asked about it as it seems very unfair to those already in non league for a team to go into such a high tier of English football. I suppose another option would be for Portsmouth fans to support Havant & Waterlooville in the Conference South and force through a name change/kit change. I wonder how receptive Havant & Waterlooville would be to that? It would benefit them significantly but that is countered against a loss of the H & W identity. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Powlay Posted March 2, 2012 Author Share Posted March 2, 2012 There is nothing to show that the conference would take them over hearsay though. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew Le God Posted March 2, 2012 Share Posted March 2, 2012 It would probably goto a vote amongst the clubs. I believe the "positive" feedback that it may be possible is from the governing body itself. It is hard to see why Conference clubs would vote to potentially give up one of the two promotion spots one season to what would likely be a strong side at that level. Turkeys voting for Christmas. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benjani'sBootCleaner Posted March 2, 2012 Share Posted March 2, 2012 Yeah, it's nice to know that at Conference level, MLG thinks our support is good enough The problem we'll have is the cash to exist at such a level. I think the club would need in excess of £1m to pay league fees, contract fees etc (I fully don't know the ins and outs, but cash was spoken about as a limit to how high we could start). We'll comfortably sell out Havant each week, and the main worry is selling out everyone elses ground. An AFC Portsmouth team going to Eastleigh (obvious Southampton area) would create a nightmare for the Police. Eastleigh wouldn't be able to afford the bill, so that's where sticking us into a higher level comes in. The working capital though, would be a major issue, the Trust don't have the money to cover it but maybe a share issue would raise some good cash. It's encouraging to see FC United raising near £4m to build a new stadium, all from fans and investors. You could see Conference clubs voting it in though, you've got a club that would have full fan support, and big crowds raising the profile of the league, like Powlay said who would give up their spot? The problem is one voice would be crowded out by 23 screaming for more money. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benjani'sBootCleaner Posted March 2, 2012 Share Posted March 2, 2012 If it did happen, who would become AFC Portsmouth rivals? Obviously Southampton still, but I mean a team they would regulary face in the lower leagues.I'd say Havant & Waterlooville, but are they not fair high up the lower Leagues? Havant would be where we'd play our games, they've offered the Trust to have the ground if Plan B was to happen. They offer ST holders at the moment discounted prices for tickets and the League make sure they play at Home when we are Away. There isn't much resentment there. Eastleigh would be our Southampton game till we were promoted but Southampton will always be our rivals. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SI Staff Dean Gripton Posted March 2, 2012 SI Staff Share Posted March 2, 2012 What happens to Fratton Park if Portsmouth are liquidated? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew Le God Posted March 2, 2012 Share Posted March 2, 2012 Without a club the covenant of "only for sports usage" that the council put on Fratton Park is pointless. It really is a futile gesture by a council that can't be maintained long term, at some point the land would be developed for housing/offices/supermarket. Plough Lane in 2012... A non league start as Benjani'sBootCleaner says would see any new club probably playing at Havant & Waterlooville as Fratton Park would be too big to maintain. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew Le God Posted March 2, 2012 Share Posted March 2, 2012 We'll comfortably sell out Havant each week' date=' and the main worry is selling out everyone elses ground. An AFC Portsmouth team going to Eastleigh (obvious Southampton area) would create a nightmare for the Police. Eastleigh wouldn't be able to afford the bill, so that's where sticking us into a higher level comes in.[/quote']Should that be considered important when deciding which league a team goes in? Opposition clubs will just give you smaller allocations and you won't be able to exceed them. One game per season with a packed away end isn't going to be a huge problem. Non league clubs do manage on the occasions when they sell out stadiums for other games e.g. cup games against higher league clubs. Why would one game per year against AFC Portsmouth be any more of a problem? You could see Conference clubs voting it in though' date=' you've got a club that would have full fan support, and big crowds raising the profile of the league.[/quote']I'd say the loss of a potential promotion spot to a strong side would be considered ahead of one home game per season where a few hundred extra away fans might turn up. That is what will sway votes. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
robterrace Posted March 2, 2012 Share Posted March 2, 2012 Theres talk that Coventry have been put under a transfer embargo for failing to get their accounts in on time... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nottingham Forest Posted March 2, 2012 Share Posted March 2, 2012 Can they get a 10 point deduction for that? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
skybluedave Posted March 2, 2012 Share Posted March 2, 2012 We've had an embargo before, not like we make any transfers anyway Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
robterrace Posted March 2, 2012 Share Posted March 2, 2012 Can they get a 10 point deduction for that? No, don't really think so. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
robterrace Posted March 2, 2012 Share Posted March 2, 2012 Birmingham City also say they're filing their accounts late, so they'll be embargoed as well. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SI Staff Dean Gripton Posted March 2, 2012 SI Staff Share Posted March 2, 2012 Birmingham City also say they're filing their accounts late, so they'll be embargoed as well. As pop shot has also often said, there's plenty to worry about for us while we still have Yeung etc at the helm. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Powlay Posted March 2, 2012 Author Share Posted March 2, 2012 Birmingham City also say they're filing their accounts late, so they'll be embargoed as well. Which is fantastic as they already hav brought in who they wanted. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benjani'sBootCleaner Posted March 2, 2012 Share Posted March 2, 2012 Without a club the covenant of "only for sports usage" that the council put on Fratton Park is pointless. It really is a futile gesture by a council that can't be maintained long term, at some point the land would be developed for housing/offices/supermarket.Plough Lane in 2012... A non league start as Benjani'sBootCleaner says would see any new club probably playing at Havant & Waterlooville as Fratton Park would be too big to maintain. I'd be surprised if Fratton Park ended up like that. This isn't London remember, and the Plan for the city over the next 20 years includes this land being kept for a leisure facility. The main development in Pompey over the next 20 years will be at Tipner (as you come down on the M275 on the right/left). We don't know though either way though, I suppose we're both going on hope more than anything. Should that be considered important when deciding which league a team goes in? Opposition clubs will just give you smaller allocations and you won't be able to exceed them. One game per season with a packed away end isn't going to be a huge problem. Non league clubs do manage on the occasions when they sell out stadiums for other games e.g. cup games against higher league clubs. Why would one game per year against AFC Portsmouth be any more of a problem? I'm not sure you've been to any non league games, but go to Havant and away fans can freely mix and walk around the stadium. Basically there are no Allocations. You turn up pay on the day. The added cost of Pompey being in town, could make the game a loss with the added stewarding, police costs. That's why we won't be put any lower than Conference South, you could argue it's going to be hard to have us in that league as it is. The thing with Cup games is the TV Revenue would cover a lot of the costs. There is no TV Revenue in the Conference. I'd say the loss of a potential promotion spot to a strong side would be considered ahead of one home game per season where a few hundred extra away fans might turn up. That is what will sway votes. These clubs think in terms of money, the majority know that a big one season payday, added media and also you could argue maybe added TV Revenue will always sway votes. Let's remember the EPL clubs voted us to be kicked out the league in 2010 so everyone could swim in some extra money. Attendances would be interesting though, the ST structure will be far cheaper, but I'd be willing to pay the same price as I pay now, extra going to run costs for the club etc. My only issue is that trust members (although numbers are not big now) will swell over Havant's capacity meaning you basically have to be a trust member to get a ticket, which would put added expense, but I guess that's clutching at straws. I'd be annoyed if I missed out on tickets for any game. That's the best part about this league, I need not worry about getting tickets anymore, all the glory hunters have buggered off Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Powlay Posted March 2, 2012 Author Share Posted March 2, 2012 love when people say 'tickets will be far cheaper' when talking about conference sides. Its £16 for an adult ticket at darlington, £24 at Boro. far cheaper my rear end. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nottingham Forest Posted March 2, 2012 Share Posted March 2, 2012 Powlay, that is a far bit cheaper tbh. Especially for someone who can't or doesn't go to every game of the season. An £8 saving is another 2-4 pints depending. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benjani'sBootCleaner Posted March 2, 2012 Share Posted March 2, 2012 love when people say 'tickets will be far cheaper' when talking about conference sides.Its £16 for an adult ticket at darlington, £24 at Boro. far cheaper my rear end. tbf, it has been £30 this season at Pompey, was £38-42 in the PremierLeague. Havant & Waterlooville is £10 (£5 for Pompey ST Holders). I guess it's not £2 on the gate, but it's a considerable saving over a season. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Powlay Posted March 2, 2012 Author Share Posted March 2, 2012 £8 difference to watch non league football compared to the championship. Thats insulting for non league fans. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benjani'sBootCleaner Posted March 2, 2012 Share Posted March 2, 2012 Powlay, that is a far bit cheaper tbh. Especially for someone who can't or doesn't go to every game of the season. An £8 saving is another 2-4 pints depending. 4 pints!?! I want to drink where you drink. £3.60 our Matchday pub has put the price up to.. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Powlay Posted March 2, 2012 Author Share Posted March 2, 2012 tbf' date=' it has been £30 this season at Pompey, was £38-42 in the PremierLeague. Havant & Waterlooville is £10 (£5 for Pompey ST Holders). I guess it's not £2 on the gate, but it's a considerable saving over a season.[/quote']If you think your tickets as a new club will be £10 an adult i think you are going to be in for a suprise. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nottingham Forest Posted March 2, 2012 Share Posted March 2, 2012 4 pints!?! I want to drink where you drink. £3.60 our Matchday pub has put the price up to.. I'm talking about general pubs. Although in the Southbank Bar, near The City Ground, I'm not sure how much it costs. That's where I usually go when I watch Forest, or the one across the road from there. The local I go in, well it's only between £2.40 and £3 iirc for a pint of Carling. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MIR17 Posted March 2, 2012 Share Posted March 2, 2012 Talking about accounts, really have to look at ourselves, if the bubble is going to burst it's going to explode. Ridiculous figures we have this year for a second tier club. Leicester City accounts to 31/05/11 reveal a loss of £15.2m for the year (2010 loss £7.5m).The club accounts confirm lcfc spent over £10m in transfer fees alone during the 2011 summer transfer window. lcfc accounts also note that from 01/06/11 to 20/02/12 a total of £25.6m in additional funding has come from its parent company. The accounts say this £25.6m "was used to invest substantially in the playing squad" £4m has been spent on the training ground, new club shop, the pitch, new IT systems and the two big screens at the KP stadium. So we've basically incurred £25.6mil worth of debt in 8 months... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew Le God Posted March 2, 2012 Share Posted March 2, 2012 I'd be surprised if Fratton Park ended up like that. This isn't London remember' date=' and the Plan for the city over the next 20 years includes this land being kept for a leisure facility. The main development in Pompey over the next 20 years will be at Tipner (as you come down on the M275 on the right/left). We don't know though either way though, I suppose we're both going on hope more than anything.[/quote']If the club fold and the new one plays at West Leigh Park the covenant is pointless. What good is saying "only for a leisure facility" if the football club is playing elsewhere? Tesco's have eyes on the site don't they? I'm not sure you've been to any non league games' date=' but go to Havant and away fans can freely mix and walk around the stadium. Basically there are no Allocations. You turn up pay on the day. The added cost of Pompey being in town, could make the game a loss with the added stewarding, police costs. That's why we won't be put any lower than Conference South, you could argue it's going to be hard to have us in that league as it is. The thing with Cup games is the TV Revenue would cover a lot of the costs. There is no TV Revenue in the Conference.[/quote']I don't see why that would have any bearing on the league a new team goes in. Pompey averaging a little over 1,000 away fans this season for trips in the 2nd tier. That is helped by large allocations like the 3,200 at Pompey had at St Mary's. Those are countered by other games with well under 1,000 travelling away fans in the 2nd tier. How many would go to away matches in the 5th/6th/7th tier. Would the numbers really be unmanageable for non league clubs to cope with? I doubt the police would consider many games as a potential problem. AFC Pompey versus Chelmsford or Eastborne is hardly Portsmouth vs Millwall, Saints or Leeds in terms of policing numbers required is it? These clubs think in terms of money' date=' the majority know that a big one season payday, added media and also you could argue maybe added TV Revenue will always sway votes. Let's remember the EPL clubs voted us to be kicked out the league in 2010 so everyone could swim in some extra money. [/quote']A minute ago you said "There is no TV Revenue in the Conference" now you say "maybe added TV Revenue will always sway votes". The payday wouldn't be as big as you think and certainly not worth more to a club than a shot at promotion (which AFC Pompey may deprive from someone). Attendances would be interesting though' date=' the ST structure will be far cheaper, but I'd be willing to pay the same price as I pay now, extra going to run costs for the club etc. My only issue is that trust members (although numbers are not big now) will swell over Havant's capacity meaning you basically have to be a trust member to get a ticket, which would put added expense, but I guess that's clutching at straws. I'd be annoyed if I missed out on tickets for any game. That's the best part about this league, I need not worry about getting tickets anymore, all the glory hunters have buggered off [/quote']West Leigh Park has a capacity of 5,250 Pompey averaging 13,000 home fans whilst in the 2nd tier. How many for the 5th/6th/7th tier? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
robterrace Posted March 2, 2012 Share Posted March 2, 2012 I'm talking about general pubs. Although in the Southbank Bar, near The City Ground, I'm not sure how much it costs. That's where I usually go when I watch Forest, or the one across the road from there. The local I go in, well it's only between £2.40 and £3 iirc for a pint of Carling. £3.30 in the Southbank, I think its £2.50 in the TBI for most stuff. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nottingham Forest Posted March 2, 2012 Share Posted March 2, 2012 MLG, what's to say, that the reduced costs, however little they may be, won't draw the fans back. Fans are drawn in by success and doing well. If Pompey, or the new Pompey team were winning week in week out, what's to say they won't draw more fans back to watching them. If they start in the Blue Square South, the away games will be closer and again, much cheaper, which means they may actually get more fans going. Also if there was a new club, that was run by the fans, then more may be willing to go to games because they feel apart of the club again. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nottingham Forest Posted March 2, 2012 Share Posted March 2, 2012 £3.30 in the Southbank, I think its £2.50 in the TBI for most stuff. What about the one across the road on the Riverbank? Infact isn't it called the Riverbank? A quick google search suggest it is called that. I don't go to much games, and the last game I went to was the game against Swansea in the Play-Offs last year. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew Le God Posted March 2, 2012 Share Posted March 2, 2012 MLG, what's to say, that the reduced costs, however little they may be, won't draw the fans back. Fans are drawn in by success and doing well. If Pompey, or the new Pompey team were winning week in week out, what's to say they won't draw more fans back to watching them. If they start in the Blue Square South, the away games will be closer and again, much cheaper, which means they may actually get more fans going. Also if there was a new club, that was run by the fans, then more may be willing to go to games because they feel apart of the club again. You are right, those would be factors that would attract fans. But the standard of the league is also a drawback. Every club tends to lose fans the further down you go. 13k in the 2nd tier could well end up with a 5k stadium like Havant & Waterlooville in the 5th/6th/7th tier being more than adequate for most games. Plymouth Argyle are from a similar city and in the past used to get similar numbers to Pompey whilst in the Championship. Now in League Two Plymouth get 6,000 averages. AFC Pompey will start lower than where Plymouth are currently. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barkermush Posted March 2, 2012 Share Posted March 2, 2012 Havant would be where we'd play our games' date=' they've offered the Trust to have the ground if Plan B was to happen. They offer ST holders at the moment discounted prices for tickets and the League make sure they play at Home when we are Away. There isn't much resentment there. Eastleigh would be our Southampton game till we were promoted but Southampton will [b']always[/b] be our rivals. Ah right, I didn't realise Havant & Waterloo would be helping you out with the trust, and would be where you play your home games from. Eastleigh.. never knew they were down there, tbh I never knew where Eastleigh was at all before. Is Weymouth anywhere near? I know they are in Dorset, but isn't Weymouth right on the South Coast too.. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew Le God Posted March 2, 2012 Share Posted March 2, 2012 Eastleigh is very much a Southampton fan area so can understand why Benjani'sBootCleaner would see them as the rivals initially. South Hampshire probably can be divided by the Hamble River in terms of Portsmouth/Southampton support. Eastleigh are to Southampton what Havant & Waterlooville are to Portsmouth. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nottingham Forest Posted March 2, 2012 Share Posted March 2, 2012 The level of quality in the league would be a problem, but unlike Plymouth, Pompey, or the new Pompey team would have a clean slate, no debts, no issues and would be owned outright by the fans, ideally. Plymouth are still going through financial problems aren't they? Their fans, much like Pompey's have been through it alot for the past few years. I know, as much as I loved my club, if things were continuously going down hill, I'd get bored and sack the football in. Club's are for life, most of the time, but we're all human and if things aren't going well, people get annoyed and disheartened. Yes, a team getting promoted to the Premier League will get more fans, because of the lure of that league. Yes they may be glory supporters. They may not be though. Financial limitations may actually stop people going to as many games. So until we know the full ins and outs, you can't just say Pompey's gates are down because the glory supporters are gone. £30 a ticket in the Championship is alot. That must be in the top 5 surely? Maybe even the top 3? For a team that was mid-table, that is alot. They weren't doing the greatest either so that'll be another turn off for the fans. Iirc, Forest's highest priced ticket is £25 ish. Or it was. That's a lot for a club that's fighting relegation and I think our attendances are down. I do believe should Pompey go bust and a new club be formed, they'd still get 7k+. There'll be more fans who'd feel involved again and a love for a club doesn't just go like that imo. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barkermush Posted March 2, 2012 Share Posted March 2, 2012 Eastleigh is very much a Southampton fan area so can understand why Benjani'sBootCleaner would see them as the rivals initially. South Hampshire probably can be divided by the Hamble River in terms of Portsmouth/Southampton support.Eastleigh are to Southampton what Havant & Waterlooville are to Portsmouth. Fans would tend to support both clubs. Cool. We don't really have anything like that here, although in Accrington (right inbetween Burnley and Blackburn, 5 minutes from us both) most are Venky fans and a few Burnley fans. I guess we have small areas around here Padiham/Nelson/Colne which are all Burnley supporting. Although once you get into Colne (pushing towards Earby and West Yorkshire) you get a few who support Bradford and the odd Leeds fan. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
robterrace Posted March 2, 2012 Share Posted March 2, 2012 What about the one across the road on the Riverbank? Infact isn't it called the Riverbank? A quick google search suggest it is called that.I don't go to much games, and the last game I went to was the game against Swansea in the Play-Offs last year. Not been in there since it stopped being Casa. I'm more of a Southbank / TBI bloke now. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nottingham Forest Posted March 2, 2012 Share Posted March 2, 2012 Not been in there since it stopped being Casa. I'm more of a Southbank / TBI bloke now. I've only ever been in there once, and that was after the Leicester game last year. Been in TBI a few times, but the last few times I've been to games it was being refurbished. So yeah it's been Southbank mainly. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew Le God Posted March 2, 2012 Share Posted March 2, 2012 I'm going to Elland Road for the first time tomorrow. Not sure why I thought giving Ken Bates £36 was a good idea when it is live on Sky but should hopefully be a good (and very long) day oop narf. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barkermush Posted March 2, 2012 Share Posted March 2, 2012 Nooo MLG. Don't give that man your money.. next time around he'll be charging £42. Mind you, you probably won't be playing Leeds again for a while, after this season. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sheer Class Posted March 2, 2012 Share Posted March 2, 2012 Liam Lawrence on loan for Cardiff till end of season Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
robterrace Posted March 2, 2012 Share Posted March 2, 2012 I'm going to Elland Road for the first time tomorrow. Not sure why I thought giving Ken Bates £36 was a good idea when it is live on Sky but should hopefully be a good (and very long) day oop narf. Nip in for a cuppa if you're nearby. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barkermush Posted March 2, 2012 Share Posted March 2, 2012 Liam Lawrence on loan for Cardiff till end of season Aye, just heard that on Talksport. According to them, to get him off the wage bill, and they said his wages don't come anywhere close to Tal Ben Haim's wages, £37k a week. I thought Haim was on more than that... or are Talksport wrong? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sheer Class Posted March 2, 2012 Share Posted March 2, 2012 Nope thats right Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nottingham Forest Posted March 2, 2012 Share Posted March 2, 2012 So Liam Lawrence is on about £40k a week, maybe more. No wonder you're a poor financial state. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sheer Class Posted March 2, 2012 Share Posted March 2, 2012 Where you see that NF? To my knowledge he was "only" on £20k pw Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nottingham Forest Posted March 2, 2012 Share Posted March 2, 2012 Where you see that NF? To my knowledge he was "only" on £20k pw Ignore me, misread Barkermush's post . Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barkermush Posted March 2, 2012 Share Posted March 2, 2012 Nope thats right Ok, thanks. I guess that's still way too much a week. I bet Pompey just can't wait, to get him off the wagebill. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluebirds4life Posted March 2, 2012 Share Posted March 2, 2012 We are paying his wages in full do I doubt he'll be on that much hopefully... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sheer Class Posted March 2, 2012 Share Posted March 2, 2012 We are paying his wages in full do I doubt he'll be on that much hopefully... He is on £20k a week Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barkermush Posted March 2, 2012 Share Posted March 2, 2012 He is on £20k a week Yeah, I remember reading that when both Kitson and Lawrence joined Portsmouth, that they were both given 20k a week deals? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluebirds4life Posted March 2, 2012 Share Posted March 2, 2012 Very hopeful here but didn't Pompey players agree a wage cut. We are paying a loan fee for him as well, is he worth it ? I know he's good technically but how is he, don't know much about him. Any chance we can have Halford too ! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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