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LAUREN's Arsenal Thread 2011/2012 - 125 Years of Greatness *sponsored by being BRILLIANT*

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SJ234

SJ234

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plus Real Madrid were desperate to bring in Kaka. Barça are not desperate to get Fabregas. They'd love to bring him back, but only if they can get a decent enough price.

As I said earlier the situation is working against us. Comparing it to the Henderson transfer or the carrol or whoever is pointless as the scenarios are different it is all to do with demand and supply tbh

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Suggy33

Suggy33

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Well, he's actually 24, is not a former world player of the year like Kaka and there is only one club that he can go to. £40m is about right.

Yeah, but they're most likely going to have Cesc for the rest of his career, a good 10 years (£4m per year), and he still has room to improve. Real will only have Kaka for 5-7 years (£9m-£12m per year) and had already peaked.

I'd take nothing less than £50m cash or £40m + Thiago/Afellay.

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SJ234

SJ234

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Yeah, but they're most likely going to have Cesc for the rest of his career, a good 10 years (£4m per year), and he still has room to improve. Real will only have Kaka for 5-7 years (£9m-£12m per year) and had already peaked.

I'd take nothing less than £50m cash or £40m + Thiago/Afellay.

But demand is low as only barca are in for him and they can wait. Whilst we are more willing to give him due to the contract becoming shorter each year and the players willingness to leave. This transfer can't be compared to kaka or others as it is very odd situation.

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dan_simmonds

dan_simmonds

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But demand is low as only barca are in for him and they can wait. Whilst we are more willing to give him due to the contract becoming shorter each year and the players willingness to leave. This transfer can't be compared to kaka or others as it is very odd situation.

I agree with this, but ultimately the board are doing the right thing. If Barca aren't will to stump up the money, why should we let him leave for anything less then he's worth. The Nasri issue should have been resolved by now, but that's because we are over a barrel. Let him go if he wants to, one good half a season doesn't mean he can demand parity with the likes of Fabregas or RVP..

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Dale Gribble

Dale Gribble

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It's not even parity, we offered him the same wages as Cesc but he's clinging to the "I want to win trophies blah blah" excuse, which we all know means "I want £185k at Man City". His comments about wanting to win Ballon D'or are hilarious, he didn't even make the French world cup squad.

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bergkamp

bergkamp

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Its always hard to value a player and of course the money going around nowadays is crazy, but 40m is about right. People saying he wouldn't get in the team are crazy as well. Sure there is extremely strong competition but he is one of only a few who could slot in a Barca and, being the age he is, would have a great career there. That and his Catalan routes make him an exception, hence the years of speculation. Hope he doesn't go though.

Nasri would be mad to go to City as hes just starting to show what a player he can be and Wengers the man to fulfill that potential and this team is the team for him to show it in.

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dan_simmonds

dan_simmonds

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It's not even parity, we offered him the same wages as Cesc

Parity means the same. Regardless of this, if you get offered £20M+ for a player in the last year of his contract, you take the money and re-invest. Otherwise we're just going to have another Flamini situation on our hands

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RubenJ

RubenJ

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I agree with this, but ultimately the board are doing the right thing. If Barca aren't will to stump up the money, why should we let him leave for anything less then he's worth. The Nasri issue should have been resolved by now, but that's because we are over a barrel. Let him go if he wants to, one good half a season doesn't mean he can demand parity with the likes of Fabregas or RVP..

and how do you determine what he is worth? you just pluck a figure out of thin air, whereas the value of a player depends on loads of different variables.

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Dale Gribble

Dale Gribble

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Parity means the same. Regardless of this, if you get offered £20M+ for a player in the last year of his contract, you take the money and re-invest. Otherwise we're just going to have another Flamini situation on our hands

Yeah I know, I'm saying Nasri isn't looking for parity because we offered him that and he turned it down.

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Sy13

Sy13

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I am shocked that you of all the posters posted that link. Bore off.

Jag bid has been reported by a few journo's, I believe it originally come from The Times.

Bore off? What is that, some kind of ghetto talk only "da kidz" can decipher??

Look, Wenger has needed to spend for YEARS now and this summer is widely regarded as his last unless he changes his transfer philosophy. The shareholders have been promised action by Gazidis in a meeting weeks ago and again the other day. But here we are juat a few weeks til the season starts and our biggest weaknesses (Gk, defence) have NOT been addressed. Its no good speculating about bringing in Dann, Samba, Cahill etc, Wenger needs to ACT and make these deals happen.

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dan_simmonds

dan_simmonds

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and how do you determine what he is worth? you just pluck a figure out of thin air, whereas the value of a player depends on loads of different variables.

Ok then, let's look at this objectively. Tevez for example. No-one really interested, £40M from Corinthians. £50M to anyone else that want to take a punt. Stewart Downing. I know we were linked with him, but the only concrete bid was from Liverpool. £20M. Cristiano Ronaldo. Only Real Madrid interested. £80M. Fernando Torres. Chelsea. £50M. Do I need to go on? Unless Barca make us an offer we can't refuse i.e. £40M+ why should we sell? He's under contract with us for another 4 seasons at least, and to put it in the words of my favourite Arseblogger - CUOCO.

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Eugster

Eugster

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Ok then, let's look at this objectively. Tevez for example. No-one really interested, £40M from Corinthians. £50M to anyone else that want to take a punt. Stewart Downing. I know we were linked with him, but the only concrete bid was from Liverpool. £20M. Cristiano Ronaldo. Only Real Madrid interested. £80M. Fernando Torres. Chelsea. £50M. Do I need to go on? Unless Barca make us an offer we can't refuse i.e. £40M+ why should we sell? He's under contract with us for another 4 seasons at least, and to put it in the words of my favourite Arseblogger - CUOCO.

That's a great point, I personally think even if we sell Cesc for 40M that were still being left short handed. I would want 50M at least, maybe I'm being foolish but I don't see how he is worth less than Tevez and unlike Tevez I fully believe that Cesc will play as well as he ever has because that is the sort of professional he is. Also maybe others don't but I still believe that Cesc loves Arsenal and that he would be happy staying.

With all that said I know that we will take 40M and I wouldn't hate Cesc going for that and Nasri going to the middle and Mata/Hazard brought in for the left and then using the other 15-20M on a striker that is a real natural finisher. That however is assuming that he is buying a centre half regardless.

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SJ234

SJ234

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Ok then, let's look at this objectively. Tevez for example. No-one really interested, £40M from Corinthians. £50M to anyone else that want to take a punt. Stewart Downing. I know we were linked with him, but the only concrete bid was from Liverpool. £20M. Cristiano Ronaldo. Only Real Madrid interested. £80M. Fernando Torres. Chelsea. £50M. Do I need to go on? Unless Barca make us an offer we can't refuse i.e. £40M+ why should we sell? He's under contract with us for another 4 seasons at least, and to put it in the words of my favourite Arseblogger - CUOCO.

Another factor forgotten, Barca don't want him now they can happily wait for next year etc. Whilst in all those cases all those clubs wanted them straight away.

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RubenJ

RubenJ

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Ok then, let's look at this objectively. Tevez for example. No-one really interested, £40M from Corinthians. £50M to anyone else that want to take a punt. Stewart Downing. I know we were linked with him, but the only concrete bid was from Liverpool. £20M. Cristiano Ronaldo. Only Real Madrid interested. £80M. Fernando Torres. Chelsea. £50M. Do I need to go on? Unless Barca make us an offer we can't refuse i.e. £40M+ why should we sell? He's under contract with us for another 4 seasons at least, and to put it in the words of my favourite Arseblogger - CUOCO.

yeah but Barça don't really need Fabregas. they can say "sorry, not paying that". They know Fabregas is desperate for a move, and they have patience because Xavi has a couple of years left in him.

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ewok01

ewok01

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Just my five cents worth. Arsene Wenger needs to cut his losses and stop being so stubborn, headlines such as "willing to let Nasr go for free" after Man U offered 20 mil, dumb dumb dumb, Fabregas is the other point of my post. What, Arsene Wenger arguing and stalling over like 8 mil or so, he could have sold them both and made some nice money from it. If both players don't want to be at Arsenal move them on. If they both stay you will see a reduced performance week in week out and remember it is along season. Young Jack Wilshere will fill Fabregas place without a struggle IMHO. I mean honestly how well are players going to play when their heart is elsewhere, my vote, "Sell em"

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H.O.V.I

H.O.V.I

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because they have the luxury of Fabregas wanting to come back?

Yeah but if they didn't want him than it wouldn't matter whether he wanted to came back or not.

They have made enquires for him the last 2 years so that shows you that they are very interested whether you think they "need" him or not.

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Weezer

Weezer

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Not really sure where Fabregas expects to play if he goes to Barcelona this season anyway? Xavi and Iniesta are both better players, and they can't drop the holding midfielder (either Mascherano or Busquets) as it is a totally different role and would unbalance their team. And they can't play him more advanced as Messi and Villa are obviously better players and Pedro's role is not one that Cesc could fill.

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H.O.V.I

H.O.V.I

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they want him, they don't need him. there's a difference between the two

if they were desperate for him, they would have paid up

They don't need sanchez either but are going to pay nearly 37 million euro's for him.

They just won the champions league so technically they don't need anyway one but you should always build from a position of strength, its what we failed to do after 2004.

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josh_b

josh_b

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Not really sure where Fabregas expects to play if he goes to Barcelona this season anyway? Xavi and Iniesta are both better players, and they can't drop the holding midfielder (either Mascherano or Busquets) as it is a totally different role and would unbalance their team. And they can't play him more advanced as Messi and Villa are obviously better players and Pedro's role is not one that Cesc could fill.

Iniesta could play in Pedro's role. And then Cesc in Iniesta's. Easy. Not to mention both Xavi and Iniesta missed good chunks of last season with injury. Cesc will play easily as much in Barca as he does here.

Mon Madrid coming and gazumping barca. Would dance in the streets if that happened.

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dan_simmonds

dan_simmonds

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yeah but Barça don't really need Fabregas. they can say "sorry, not paying that". They know Fabregas is desperate for a move, and they have patience because Xavi has a couple of years left in him.

Fine. They can f*** off until they need him then. In a couple of years he'll still be under contract, so it's not going to make a difference. I just find it hilarious that after years of Madrid baiting over the way they signed players, they're now doing exactly the same thing. Hypocrites to the core.

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RubenJ

RubenJ

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They don't need sanchez either but are going to pay nearly 37 million euro's for him.

They just won the champions league so technically they don't need anyway one but you should always build from a position of strength, its what we failed to do after 2004.

but they do need Sanchez, Barça only have 3 forwards in a 3-forward system. they have Xavi, Keita, Iniesta and Thiago for only 2 midfield positions.

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RubenJ

RubenJ

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Iniesta could play in Pedro's role. And then Cesc in Iniesta's. Easy. Not to mention both Xavi and Iniesta missed good chunks of last season with injury. Cesc will play easily as much in Barca as he does here.

Mon Madrid coming and gazumping barca. Would dance in the streets if that happened.

Xavi and Iniesta both played 50 matches last season

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SJ234

SJ234

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but they do need Sanchez, Barça only have 3 forwards in a 3-forward system. they have Xavi, Keita, Iniesta and Thiago for only 2 midfield positions.

Well you do have bojan, Iniesta is more than capable of playing there, so not quite as desperate as you make out. Also Jeffren but he isn't that good.

Well you did have Bojan:o

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Hammered Pizza

Hammered Pizza

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Well I'm new to this thread, but I think we need to spend - but spend wisely.

No matter how much money a club has, £20m on Gary Cahill or Jagielka just isn't good business at all. The best deal I think would come from Per Mertesacker. He has 1 year remaining on his contract, and with Bremen in a dire financial situation, the deal may be easy to make.

He's vastly experienced, at 26 he has already amassed 75 caps for his country. The Bundesliga is also quite similar to the Premier League, so adjustment would be relatively small. He also stands tall at 6 foot 6.

Apart from that, I believe we only lack a true goalscoring striker. Van Persie is one but that was never his best role, he's in the Bergkamp mode. He needs a Thierry Henry to play off... I believe that one solution could actually be Theo Walcott. He's stated that he wants to play in the centre, and he has shown before that he has some goalscoring ability. His pace aswell means he will pose centre-halves a lot more problems than he does currently out on the wing.

Finally, on the Fabregas (and Nasri) issues, I trust Wenger completely. Nasri wants to be successful - so don't sell him. If we're in a good position by christmas (which with Mertesacker we could be), he will be much more open to signing a new contract. He should not under any circumstances be sold.

Fabregas I believe will be integral to any success we have, but he is replaceable. I think Ramsey is a player who could very much be as good as Fabregas, if at least given the chance. We should not sell him for anything under what Wenger values him at.

Just my 2 cents...

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Hammered Pizza

Hammered Pizza

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I don't think it would be a problem if we changed how we play defensively. Anyway, it worked well enough when we had a lethargic Sol Campbell playing there in 03/04. I believe the 2 to be quite similar in defensive mannerisms and skill set.

And 03/04 season was quite successful I think :p

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SJ234

SJ234

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You say that Van Persie's best role isn't the goal scorer. He just scored the record amount of goals in the new year and wasn't far off the golden boot despite missing half the season. Nasri has little to do with success it is more money than success. To play RVP and Theo would require a 4-4-2 which wouldn't really suit the players we have. Also Mertesacker is slower than Sol and is not as good. Also our line is higher now than it was then.

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dan_simmonds

dan_simmonds

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I don't think it would be a problem if we changed how we play defensively. Anyway, it worked well enough when we had a lethargic Sol Campbell playing there in 03/04. I believe the 2 to be quite similar in defensive mannerisms and skill set.

And 03/04 season was quite successful I think :p

The point remains, do you really think Wenger will change the way his defence plays to suit one player? I doubt it. In other news, SkyBet have shortened the odds of us signing Jagielka to 8/13.

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Hammered Pizza

Hammered Pizza

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I really hope we don't waste any more on Jagielka than he's worth - which is £6m. I can see Mertesacker in an Arsenal shirt by the start of the season - Bremen have already said they can't even afford to renew his and Wiese's contracts. One must go.

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SJ234

SJ234

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I really hope we don't waste any more on Jagielka than he's worth - which is £6m. I can see Mertesacker in an Arsenal shirt by the start of the season - Bremen have already said they can't even afford to renew his and Wiese's contracts. One must go.

I hope not would rather have cahill etc

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