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LAUREN's Arsenal Thread 2011/2012 - 125 Years of Greatness *sponsored by being BRILLIANT*

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As for tactics, Wenger was outplayed again.

Either 90% of the team got scared and ignored his orders or he ordered and cautious approach but a high line and narrow defending at the same time. I agree that even 0-2 wasn't a tragic result and there was no need to panic at that score (one goal and we have a good result), but we were clearly not playing to our strengths especially in the first half, I think I would agree with dj that we did exactly what Milan hoped for. They always looked dangerous when coming forward, we always looked like doing something prohibited when attacking. Only Rosicky and RvP were trying to do something in the 1st half.

The the Henry sub, I don't get it. It wasn't like we were creating millions of chances and just couldn't convert them. We were struggling in the middle of the park, why not put our best midfielder (7TR) there along with a shaken and so much better (in the second half) Arteta in the middle, taking pointless Ramsey off and letting AA or OX on? Just illogical.

Then having van Persie deep didn't work either.

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I'm not sure where we went wrong?

AC Milan just have FAR more firepower than we do in our squad. Ibra/Robinho/Boateng is enough in itself, but their midfield in general is far more solid and it showed.

If we had the likes of Fabregas/Nasri or a young Henry in our squad, things could be different, but the fact is we lack firepower to beat the big teams.

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Whats with all this thinking about the next game, moving on discussion stuff??

There's a terrible result and quite possible champions league exit to dwell on here!!! :(

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Aaron Ramsey needs to bse used as more of an impact player where he has done best recently at Sunderland and Marseille away. Today he was terrible. Some of the players seemed scared on the ball. Van Persie was near non existant in the first half, there was no fluidity in the team. Tactics all wrong. Arshavin would have been perfect for the game because he can create something out of nothing.

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AC Milan just have FAR more firepower than we do in our squad. Ibra/Robinho/Boateng is enough in itself, but their midfield in general is far more solid and it showed.

If we had the likes of Fabregas/Nasri or a young Henry in our squad, things could be different, but the fact is we lack firepower to beat the big teams.

It is just completely wrong. All of it.

It wasn't our offensive play, it was the defensive that created this result. Individual mistakes (3x TV, 1xWS, 1xJD) and generally playing a high line against tall strikers and long ball playing team. It all goes together ofc, scoring/creating chances would have caused Milan to be more cautious, but generally we just allowed them to play their game in attack.

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If we would have been better on the ball the pressure would have lifted off of the defense and allowed them extra time to organise themselves. We needed to put them under pressure and keep them on the backfoot because potentially we have the players to do it. Its easier said that done but it was possible.

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That was a tactical shambles from Wenger. I wouldn't even blame any of the players, because the way they were set up and instructed to play was all wrong. It's not their fault they looked lost and exposed.

Ugh.

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If we would have been better on the ball the pressure would have lifted off of the defense and allowed them extra time to organise themselves. We needed to put them under pressure and keep them on the backfoot because potentially we have the players to do it. Its easier said that done but it was possible.

Well I said this in my post, but that is pure theory and does not apply to this game almost at all. We have the firepower and I would say it is better or equal to Milan's. It is how we dealt with their attacks which caused problems. In the first half we simply invited them to do what they like most. It is like playing a high line against Theo. Plus we made individual defensive mistakes allowing them to score more gaols than their shots on target. WTF that this have to do with firepower???

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A couple of things. Wenger must go at the end of the season. The guy is a tactical *******. He's harming the club so much atm its scary. The second thing is that Vermaelen is the most overrated centre back going. Joke of a man.

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That was a tactical shambles from Wenger. I wouldn't even blame any of the players, because the way they were set up and instructed to play was all wrong. It's not their fault they looked lost and exposed.

Ugh.

Kind of reminded me of our previous (before last season) game vs Barca at home, where only a forced sub (AA injury IIRC) made us change tactics which led to us taking more control of the game and eventually equalising after being totally outplayed in the first part of the game.

But I'd say individuals played their role. Gibbs is not ready for the reserves not to mention a game of the season. TV/Song/Walcott/Ramsey out of form or just not experienced enough to put a confident performance in such a game. Arteta got scared in the 1st half, amazing for his age, but wasn't it the first such big game of his career?

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Well I said this in my post, but that is pure theory and does not apply to this game almost at all. We have the firepower and I would say it is better or equal to Milan's. It is how we dealt with their attacks which caused problems. In the first half we simply invited them to do what they like most. It is like playing a high line against Theo. Plus we made individual defensive mistakes allowing them to score more gaols than their shots on target. WTF that this have to do with firepower???
Firstly I was referring to the players being a bit too reluctant and scared on the ball and just giving the ball away allowing Milan to look dangerous attack after attack. The problem with the tactics is that we were far too rigid and had no fluidity in the movement, we looked a bit too predictable with our runs and final balls Milan just swept them up and attacked with power, direct accuracy and great creativity. It wasn't so much pure theory because that is our natural game to do what I said, so why change that.

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As I pointed out at the start of the season to much ridicule.

I don’t share the same unshakable confidence in Vermaelen as everybody else seems to.

He made a good impression early in is debut season adding aggression and a goal threat but his positioning was found hopelessly wanting in several key matches during the run-in costing the team vital goals.

We all know that Wenger is a tactical klutz. Putting out the same failing system time and again without regard to the strengths and weakness of your own personal or that of the opposition is beyond negligent.

4-5-1 should have gone with the sale of Fabregas, his role was pivotal in making the system work.

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Better firepower than Milan :D

Ibra not better than van Persie, I guess you'd agree.

Boateng with a shot of a lifetime, how's this better than Theo, especially looking at his other efforts? Robinho is a great talent but inconsistent, and we had proven goalscorers like Henry or Arteta today plus rising star in Ox in the squad today. Pretty equal with the only world class player being RvP.

So it is not a case of quality of firepower, just how it is utilised/defended against.

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Firstly I was referring to the players being a bit too reluctant and scared on the ball and just giving the ball away allowing Milan to look dangerous attack after attack. The problem with the tactics is that we were far too rigid and had no fluidity in the movement, we looked a bit too predictable with our runs and final balls Milan just swept them up and attacked with power, direct accuracy and great creativity. It wasn't so much pure theory because that is our natural game to do what I said, so why change that.

I completely agree with it, in fact I posted a lot about it earlier.

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Better firepower than Milan :D

Yeh I giggled at that too. But then he also said Milan were a long-ball team in one of his other posts, so this seems standard.

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Pick another battle. Van Persie and Ibrahimivic are both world class but if you are seriously implying that the likes of Walcott, Henry and the Ox are stronger than Pato & Robinho you are more deluded than Wenger.

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Ibra not better than van Persie, I guess you'd agree.

Boateng with a shot of a lifetime, how's this better than Theo, especially looking at his other efforts?

Quality :lol:

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Pick another battle. Van Persie and Ibrahimivic are both world class but if you are seriously implying that the likes of Walcott, Henry and the Ox are stronger than Pato & Robinho you are more deluded than Wenger.

So you agree we lost cause we were not attacking well enough, not because our defence was badly set up, had poor tactics and made individual mistakes?

All I was saying (and it had been said even in this thread for long time) that both clubs have great offensive assets, it was just a matter of how they stop the offensive play of the other team. This is where Milan were better than us and where we struggled.

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Yeh I giggled at that too. But then he also said Milan were a long-ball team in one of his other posts, so this seems standard.

Ok, I will go to the threads you usually post and pick parts of the sentences you post there to make you look and idiot. Oh, sorry, you're a specialist at calling people idiots for no reason.

I would really appreciate you quoting me saying Milan 'were a long-ball team'. All I said was that Milan utilised long ball in their tactics especially in the first half. Which just proves my general point that Milan were much better tactically, looked like a more experienced team. And experienced team that has tall (Ibra) or Strong (Boateng) players who face high line of mobile but smaller defenders will utilise long ball and Milan did that perfectly in the first half.

van Persie is better than Ibra IMO for many reasons, I'm sure had he gone to Barca a couple years ago he'd be a star until now. He's just more reliable, not going to punch someone in the face just cause we are losing.

Boateg/Walcott. What's the big deal? Theo has better career stats, and why would today's performance mean there's a huge difference between them?

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Boateg/Walcott. What's the big deal? Theo has better career stats, and why would today's performance mean there's a huge difference between them?

Because one is genuinely a top class attacking midfielder, the other is Theo?

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Because one is genuinely a top class attacking midfielder, the other is Theo?

That is a great argument, puts the discussion beyond any doubt.

Just to remind you it was not about quality of midfield but 'firepower'. 6 goals for Theo in his poor season and 7(8?) for a top class attacking midfielder.

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I would really appreciate you quoting me saying Milan 'were a long-ball team'. All I said was that Milan utilised long ball in their tactics especially in the first half.

That isn't what you said, now is it?

generally playing a high line against tall strikers and long ball playing team.

You must have been watching a different game if you think Milan were playing long balls today. All goals were created via passing through midfielders, and the final ball for each goal was either along the floor or a little lofted ball to a guy standing about 10 yards away.

van Persie is better than Ibra IMO for many reasons, I'm sure had he gone to Barca a couple years ago he'd be a star until now. He's just more reliable, not going to punch someone in the face just cause we are losing.

Boateg/Walcott. What's the big deal? Theo has better career stats, and why would today's performance mean there's a huge difference between them?

van Persie-Ibra - yeh that's reasonable. But you're idea of comparing "firepower" is to then go to Walcott-Boateng :D

What about the strikers? Strikers = firepower. But I'll let you include 'wide forwards' if you wish, like Oxlade-Chamberlain and Walcott.

So you think Walcott, Oxlade-Chamberlain, Chamakh, Park, Henry (who's gone now anyway) is better than Pato, Robinho, Cassano? Not a chance.

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@Astafjevs - it is really amazing how you can take sentences out of context to prove a totally different point.

From my first post here I was agreeing that Milan were a better team. Especially tactically. I said they used long ball, which is totally true, especially in the first half. I have no idea why 'using long ball' is seen as a bad thing in football. If you have a tall striker and fast tactical aware wingers/AMCs why not use it against high line?

Ok, you didn't score your goals this way, but caused a lot of problems in the defense for us. Which probably (we'll never know) led to some of the goals. So I don't understand how you are holding against me that fact that I admitted my team didn't manage to deal with what you did at the goals PLUS the simple tactic of playing a long ball to a tall striker/fast winger tactics.

As for firepower yes, I think our firepower FOR THE NIGHT which was the subject of the discussion was pretty similar. Milan used theirs very well, we wasted ours. Case of tactics, team selection, not player quality IMO.

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Feel sorry for my friends who went all the way to Milan to watch that. The club has failed them tonight with a performance like that, so many problems, there really is no excuse for a 'big' club to get a battering like that.

We were like children out there, unacceptable.

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Not being an arsenal fan I probably have no business posting here, but I do love watching the aftermath and couldnt help but get involved in this 'theo vs boetang' debate... To be honest boetang has had a torrid career, he is a somewhat divisive character and that to some degree has held back his development. He has now found a club which he seems to enjoy playing for and lets be honest he is twice the player that theo is... wonder goal or no wonder goal.

Pretty much every other football fan apart from arsenal supporters think theo walcott is hugely overrated. He was made to look good in his early days from playing in a side with quality players around him, but even then he was 1 dimensional. Now hes required to step up a bit he totally anonymous apart from the occasional break away counter attack where he can utilise his only talent - running really fast. Hes a poor dribbler and not that great at crossing, he is in essence a poor mans aaron lennon, I mean at least he can dribble and provide a good cross now and again. Theo is honestly awful imo, id rather play shaun wright philips in his position (in relation to england) he just doesnt have a winning mentality and not much game/match intelligence.

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Not all of us rate Theo highly.

I think he's a brain dead fool, he's great on his day but he's far too inconsistent and at times looks like a league one player. However whilst Boateng is better than Theo in reality, it's a strange comparison.

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Not really got much to say, but I think that was for me the worst performance of the season. Worse than the 8-2 in many ways, because the team that played today really should have given AC Milan a game. I'm devastated and really quite disheartened.

I never expected a victory for us - indeed before the game I said I'd be content with a score-draw, but to lose 4-0 in that manner is awful, just horrible.

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Theo is a good player. The hate he gets is ridiculous. He's been badly mismanaged by a manager who cant seem to get the best out of him. Because when the team plays to his strengths, we win. And RvP scores.

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Just remembered a positive about tonight. Gibbs looked pretty solid after 4 months out.

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It was a bit of my fault that this has gone to comparing Theo with Boateng. So I will stress again what I was saying: both clubs had similar firepower (=ability to score goals carried by their 1st team players) but Arsenal did almost nothing to utilise theirs, while Milan did it very well, with our tactics' help (fe allowing thei long balls/digaonal passes to be effective).

So you think Walcott, Oxlade-Chamberlain, Chamakh, Park, Henry (who's gone now anyway) is better than Pato, Robinho, Cassano? Not a chance.

Cassano and Park were not on the bench today so I have no idea what you mean by including them.

Again, I was not referring to player general quality but ability to score goals (as was said in the original post I referred to = 'firepower'). Not current form (ie today's' performance, which most of the people here seem to be referring to). I was trying to prove that we weren't destined to lose today cause Milan have a superior goalscoring options (as someone suggested) but because we - having similar attacking options - were totally unable to deal with Milan's offensive play on the day due to bad tactics/injuries.

But if someone is really so keen to compare firepower, please tell me how and why it shouldn't be measured by stats from previous 1-2 seasons? Why we should compare it based on one game? Or Astafjevs' opinions?

So this season and the last Boateng (2 years older than Theo) scored 11 goals for Milan, (1 for his country in total). Robinho scored 22 (and impressive 26 for Brazil, but only 1 in last two seasons). Then you have Pato with 20, but only 4 this season.

Theo scored 19 (bad 2011/12 season!!!), van Persie 50 (fifty) since the start of 2010/11 season (that is so important in judging our firepower, just as Messi is in Barca's - one player and so many goals, see that Astafjevs is mentioning 2 players that didn't start for Milan today). Now I may throw in Ox's 4 or Henry's 3 or Arteta's 4 + whatever he scored for Everton in that time. Or AA's 12.

You may call anyone you want an idiot, you may take single words from my posts to prove I called Barca or Real a long ball playing team. But the facts are hard to fight this way. Both teams had similar firepower at their disposal, one used it well, the other failed to do it.

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Theo is a good player. The hate he gets is ridiculous. He's been badly mismanaged by a manager who cant seem to get the best out of him. Because when the team plays to his strengths, we win. And RvP scores.

even sagna couldn't save theo tonight :( average at best mid-table player.

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Just woke up and realised it wasn't a bad dream, last night really did happen.

This season is over. I fully expect Sunderland to do us at the weekend and maybe we'll scrape 4th which means AW will declare it a successful season and all the "Wenger knows" clowns will point at our finances and (lack of) spending to back him up.

Insanity: doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result. Yes, I have posted this many times before but perhaps AW and the board are sending me insane!!!

As soon as the season is over, even before the Euros, the board HAVE to come out and tell the fans what Arsenal's 10 year plan is. I think they've painted themselves into an impossible corner. They are so motivated by money that they sit back and watch the pounds roll in now we are a feeder club by buying small and selling big. Because this makes them so much they won't allow anyone who wants, demands, success at AFc (Dein) anywhere near the club so they hide behind the debt to convince everyone Wenger is a genius for getting us top 4 finishes with nothing to work with. If there IS money to spend, and I mean big money, then the fans will (quite rightly) demand to know why it wasn't spent last January when AFc were in all 4 competitions or last Summer when it was clear the squad was MUCH weaker than last season.

There is a cancer spreading at AFc and the more it spreads, the harder it is to cut out.

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Just saw this on another forum, sums it all up...

Worst start in over 50 years;

worst defeat in over 100 years;

worst defeat in Europe;

about 15m profit made in player trading in the summer (in addition to the reported 35m transfer kitty not used);

failure to retain 2 top ranked players re our style of play (including one of the best CMs in the game);

selling our best player & Captain for below market price after the Board didn't want to sell & wanted 50m;

failure to replace with quality as he was prepared to sell, then haggle, then ran out of time to replace;

failure to shift the deadwood other than on loan;

failure to strengthen the squad in Jan;

failure to improve the coaching / mentality issues on the pitch we've seen these past seasons;

= WENGER OUT.

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Love Spurs fans getting so smug. They really are taking advantage of one of their greatest seasons. Also why are they trolling I can't remember any of us trolling in your thread not that we can these days tbh.

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Love Spurs fans getting so smug. They really are taking advantage of one of their greatest seasons. Also why are they trolling I can't remember any of us trolling in your thread not that we can these days tbh.

Amen man. :thup: Oh well, onward to Sunderland and their crap pitch again.

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It is funny. I think the Spurs fans I have on facebook talk about us more than all my Arsenal friends. Schadenfreude indeed.

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Love Spurs fans getting so smug. They really are taking advantage of one of their greatest seasons. Also why are they trolling I can't remember any of us trolling in your thread not that we can these days tbh.

To be fair, we haven't been crap for a few years, so there's not much that could have been said.

Schadenfreude indeed. More of a car crash tbh though, so I am neutrally observing above the rivalry. There was a time when Arsenal fans were able to take the banter, what happened? I got so much stick from fans/friends when we were 2pts/8 games.....aaaand the 17yrs preceding that. Don't take it so seriously chaps.

PS- It's nice to be in this position for once, give us a break. If we drop out of the top four between now and May, feel free to bring this up :D

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This mornings game was very bad! Our defenders need to go back to school.

AC were very good, but I thought they were very dirty bad people, many times they said they had been hit with elbows when they hadn't.

Also the grass was terrible, I think they meant to do it so that walcott and the Ox! would always fall over.

Mr Wenger should have asked for the game to be moved across the city to Inter Milan's pitch instead

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To be fair, we haven't been crap for a few years, so there's not much that could have been said.

Schadenfreude indeed. More of a car crash tbh though, so I am neutrally observing above the rivalry. There was a time when Arsenal fans were able to take the banter, what happened? I got so much stick from fans/friends when we were 2pts/8 games.....aaaand the 17yrs preceding that. Don't take it so seriously chaps.

PS- It's nice to be in this position for once, give us a break. If we drop out of the top four between now and May, feel free to bring this up :D

I just find trolling irksome especially since 99% of it is ****. I also find spurs fans smugness hard to take since we have always been better in my time as an Arsenal fan we just aren't anymore.

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I refuse to blame just the defence the midfield failed to protect them. The whole team was terrible no point suggesting certain players were worse than others.

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