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SFraser

A Guide to Developing Youngsters

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Yes it's a real pain in the a**. None of my players is mentoring at this moment and when I wantt them to, rarely is the one that really fits.

Well, gotta live wih that.

Thanks.

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I meant were you able to set him as a tutor before he was 22yo.

I asked because I've been told that tutors had to be at least 22yo in FM10, but I can remember at least three players I've had that could tutor at 19 & 20 years of age.

Yes I tried that double tutoring once, but nothing seemed to change so I haven't tried it since. I thought it was a bug or something that allowed me to do this if I set them at the same time. So have you had possitive results doing this?

I'm still playing FM10 so it would be nice to know. Cheers:)

Two things:

First of all available tutors in FM10 is pretty much anyone, and pretty much anyone else can be a tutoree in FM10. The only barriers in FM10 are age/reputation/position. The guy being mentored must be younger, similar position and with lower reputation.

The second point is that the actual results of Mentoring are very interesting. The context in which mentoring improvements happen is interesting. It's not a simple case of "copy-paste" at all, and your question shows you have noticed that.

To sum it up I think that given all the possible factors in FM, the greatest Mentoring results occur after the Mentor has done something impressive.

I'm serious, look at the posts I write, and I am astonished by how realistic this game is. It's a work of genius. When the mentor plays out of his skin, the mentoree goes through the roof. It's a stunning game.

If you want to play it well, pretend it is football. I kid you not.

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Two things:

First of all available tutors in FM10 is pretty much anyone, and pretty much anyone else can be a tutoree in FM10. The only barriers in FM10 are age/reputation/position. The guy being mentored must be younger, similar position and with lower reputation.

The second point is that the actual results of Mentoring are very interesting. The context in which mentoring improvements happen is interesting. It's not a simple case of "copy-paste" at all, and your question shows you have noticed that.

To sum it up I think that given all the possible factors in FM, the greatest Mentoring results occur after the Mentor has done something impressive.

I'm serious, look at the posts I write, and I am astonished by how realistic this game is. It's a work of genius. When the mentor plays out of his skin, the mentoree goes through the roof. It's a stunning game.

I do look at your posts and yes this is a brilliant game. My happiness at "discovering" this game July 2010 just outweighs the sadness of not finding it before.:)

As for the tutee being younger there must be some room to move. By this I mean, the number of years old they are as opposed to their precise birth date. I have had two players Adam Lallana and Tomas Horava tutor each other, at different times obviously.

Youth development is one of the most exciting and interesting parts of this game to me, the stupid thing is I will strive to bring on my youngsters as quickly as I can, only to get disappointed when they appear to virtually max out their Potential at 19,20or21.

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I do look at your posts and yes this is a brilliant game. My happiness at "discovering" this game July 2010 just outweighs the sadness of not finding it before.:)

That is comparable to the fun I have continuing to discover this game. It's not a perfect simulation of football but it keeps trying to be a perfect simulation of football that I consider it to be the greatest game ever made.

I'm the kind of guy that plays Hearts of Iron when I am bored. I play "The Void" when I am looking for something a bit artistic, I have figured out how Sopcast works...

Football is either a passion or it is not. I am passionatly playing a game that is made by passionate football fans. The only time FM is not active on my PC is when my Sopcast has my team.

And that's all there is to it.

What I do is what happens between Wednesday and Saturday when my team is not playing.

Thank you SI.

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That is comparable to the fun I have continuing to discover this game. It's not a perfect simulation of football but it keeps trying to be a perfect simulation of football that I consider it to be the greatest game ever made.

I'm the kind of guy that plays Hearts of Iron when I am bored. I play "The Void" when I am looking for something a bit artistic, I have figured out how Sopcast works...

Football is either a passion or it is not. I am passionatly playing a game that is made by passionate football fans. The only time FM is not active on my PC is when my Sopcast has my team.

And that's all there is to it.

What I do is what happens between Wednesday and Saturday when my team is not playing.

Thank you SI.

SI should offer you a job, IMO.

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What to do with youngsters with low "Mental" skills other than Determination?

There are many newgens with adequate Determination and interesting role-specific attributes who on the other hand are hampered by horrendously low Bravery/Concentration/Decisions...

How can I train/tutor them properly? Is there a way to raise such stats or, just like Flair, they can't be changed?

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Tutoring only increases Determination and the hidden attributes (professionalism,ambitions,pressure,etc).

I think they only increase with game experience, though determination and work rate can increase if a player accepts a warning or fine for poor performance.

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i recently tried warning every player once a month about training. some players would argue but most agreed and generally they started to make improvements, usually very good improvements. 1 or 2 players though would only ever improve one attribute a month. I cant quite figure out how to make these players improve their improvement!

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Wow another amazing and very informative thread SFraser. Will definitely be using this info, and your other fantastic threads, on the game I've got planned as Brighton where I'm only going to recruit home nations & Irish players. So youth development will be crticial in the long run as it will be tough for me to get the players I want.

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What to do with youngsters with low "Mental" skills other than Determination?

There are many newgens with adequate Determination and interesting role-specific attributes who on the other hand are hampered by horrendously low Bravery/Concentration/Decisions...

How can I train/tutor them properly? Is there a way to raise such stats or, just like Flair, they can't be changed?

As far as I am aware Aggression, Bravery, Determination(tutorable only), Flair and Influence cannot be changed purely through training...All other mental attributes can.

And whereas not all mental attributes need to be high for all positions, it helps to be as mental as possible:D

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Thanks SFraser for teaching me more about the intricacies of tutoring, I've never really used it before but it works great. I was wondering why one of my youngsters was improving hand over fist every month, his tutor has been in excellent form! I'm firmly loving tutoring.

I think tutoring should effect more mental stats though. Maybe a more subtle effect on bravery, composure, aggression, work rate, concentration and influence sounds logical to me and would make tutors even more useful although slightly more complex.

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Hey SFraser, thanks for the brilliant thread. One quick question: I've stumbled upon two excellent youth prospects with flair of 18 and 19 respectively. Would getting a tutor with lower flair to tutor them decrease their flair ratings? I don't have any players with flair quite so high so I'm not quite sure how to best nurture these talents. Also, the former (with flair 18, also determination 18, decisions 18, off the ball 16 etc) has teamwork 2. Again, any way to improve that without negatively impacting the others? Is it just match practice that'll help? They're aged 15 and 16, if that helps.

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Hey SFraser, thanks for the brilliant thread. One quick question: I've stumbled upon two excellent youth prospects with flair of 18 and 19 respectively. Would getting a tutor with lower flair to tutor them decrease their flair ratings? I don't have any players with flair quite so high so I'm not quite sure how to best nurture these talents. Also, the former (with flair 18, also determination 18, decisions 18, off the ball 16 etc) has teamwork 2. Again, any way to improve that without negatively impacting the others? Is it just match practice that'll help? They're aged 15 and 16, if that helps.

Nope, their flair wouldn't decrease via tutoring the only stats which directly change are Determination and hidden stats.

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Two things:

First of all available tutors in FM10 is pretty much anyone, and pretty much anyone else can be a tutoree in FM10. The only barriers in FM10 are age/reputation/position. The guy being mentored must be younger, similar position and with lower reputation.

The second point is that the actual results of Mentoring are very interesting. The context in which mentoring improvements happen is interesting. It's not a simple case of "copy-paste" at all, and your question shows you have noticed that.

To sum it up I think that given all the possible factors in FM, the greatest Mentoring results occur after the Mentor has done something impressive.

I'm serious, look at the posts I write, and I am astonished by how realistic this game is. It's a work of genius. When the mentor plays out of his skin, the mentoree goes through the roof. It's a stunning game.

If you want to play it well, pretend it is football. I kid you not.

This could be to stop 'Mentor Harvesting'! I used to do this all the time, signed up a few old players who wouldn't play any games but had great mental stats and would be used purely to Tutor the kids. So if what you say is correct then it is a probably way to combat this.

For the best mentors they need to be at least playing some games.

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To sum it up I think that given all the possible factors in FM, the greatest Mentoring results occur after the Mentor has done something impressive.

I'm serious, look at the posts I write, and I am astonished by how realistic this game is. It's a work of genius. When the mentor plays out of his skin, the mentoree goes through the roof. It's a stunning game.

Interesting observation. have you noticed this with the mentee doing something good as well? I had a 19 year old centre back who was called up to the Spain squad during the world cup, and he started for them even in the world cup final itself. He was being tutored at the time and turned resolute (the mentors personality) almost overnight. the mentor was also at the world cup playing for England, but England didnt do so well.

I thought his tutoring was so successful because the mentee was doing something good.

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I love this thread, because it confirms so much that I've come to suspect about how tutoring and developing youngsters work (especially the primacy of determination). And I love that philosophy that the best way to approach any decision in FM is to make a proper, footballing one, and trust that the hidden 'systems' will do it justice.

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That is comparable to the fun I have continuing to discover this game. It's not a perfect simulation of football but it keeps trying to be a perfect simulation of football that I consider it to be the greatest game ever made.

I'm the kind of guy that plays Hearts of Iron when I am bored. I play "The Void" when I am looking for something a bit artistic, I have figured out how Sopcast works...

Football is either a passion or it is not. I am passionatly playing a game that is made by passionate football fans. The only time FM is not active on my PC is when my Sopcast has my team.

And that's all there is to it.

What I do is what happens between Wednesday and Saturday when my team is not playing.

Thank you SI.

Yes, thank you SI, but also...hmmm!

There are so few things that I've seen in this game, that I would swear to know the exact reason(s) as to why they happened.

I've seen these stellar advances in tutees, but being unable to reference any official SI info., I was left with several possible theories, none of which I was confident enough to plump for.

As much as a tutee's growth may excel on the back of his tutor's performance, I have seen a tutee stubbornly refuse to gain one iota in the face of a MOM performance, in a cup final, by his tutor.

Although I watch every match in full and manage every detail to the nth degree, I haven't played this game long enough to be sure that trends I see are almost definately attributable to this or that.(or these or those!?)

That said, having sucked and see'd, I have to make educated guesses - and without doubt I agree with your findings.....Unless I have to swear to it in court with the possible sentence being the confiscation of my FM game.

Cheers.

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Wow.... brilliant post. Never put that much thought into most of the things you have said and the best part about it is, it makes sense!

Will try to integrate this into my current and future saves, great job.

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SFraser, (if you are still playing your FM10 save) are you still able to set players less than 22 years old as Tutors? Have you even tried?

I'm 5 and a bit years into my save and have been unable to set anyone under 22 as a Tutor for at least the last year, including the players I've used before aged 19 and 20.

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how tutor attribute sould be?

no one really helped

A tutor ideally has high stats for: Determination, Ambition, Loyalty, Pressure, Professionalism, Sportsmanship (optional :p) and temperament while having a low controversy stat. Apart from Determination they are all hidden and together with Determination they form the players personality. I just look for a good determination stat coupled with a good personality (like resolute or spirited) and I check their media handling style to see if they are controversial or not. Also ambition is a double edged sword as having an ambitious squad is nice but when an ambitious player gets an offer from a big club hes gone.

There is a personality guide around here somewhere that lists what attribute combinations create the different personalities.

btw. I find Determination and Professionalism most important as they are the main influences in how good a player trains and grows. Determination can be seen so any player with high determination and a personality that implies he is professional is good in my books.

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You, sir, are a legend. Your section on mentoring is the best, simplest, most football-immersive section I've seen on the subject. I've spent four seasons in my current Hungarian save working toward the ideals from this thread, with the latest trio of fantastic mentoring results prompting my enthusiastic reply here. I now have an exceptional core group of determined, talented, individual young players unlike anything I've seen before, and a solid group of reliable professionals who are almost doing my job for me on and off the pitch. I've never had a club run this well before. Thank you for the advice and pointers!

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Do you consider a player's age when loaning them out? I see in the OP you talk about getting them to a high enough determination before loaning them out, but do you specifically wait until they're out of the youth team (ie, over the age of 18) or do you loan them out as soon as their determination is high enough?

Another question:- I have Sergio Canales on my save who has developed very well in his time at Real. I signed him cheap and his attributes are phenominal (20 Creativity, 20 Technique, 19 Passing, etc), which gives me the impression he must have high Professionalism and/or Ambition. So obviously I'd like him tutoring my youngsters. However his Determination is only 11 (unfortunately I'm not Man United so when a player of his quality becomes available, I'm not turning him down because of his Determination!) - do I still tutor players and then perhaps try and tutor them with someone else later, or do I just not take the risk?

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If your tutoree has a higher determination than 11 then it will go down, although maybe not too much and can be brought back by a higher determination tutor, I probably wouldn't have him tutoring with only 11 determination though but you'd have to judge it case by case. Your coach reports will show whether or not Canales is a professional/ambitious - look for his personality for big clues.

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Do you consider a player's age when loaning them out? I see in the OP you talk about getting them to a high enough determination before loaning them out, but do you specifically wait until they're out of the youth team (ie, over the age of 18) or do you loan them out as soon as their determination is high enough?

You can't loan out Under 17s, so you might well get in 2 tutoring sessions before they can be loaned out. After that, you might loan them out for one session per season and keep them for tutoring and occasional first team experience in the other half of the season.

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Does the youth lack professionalism or determination?

No I am talking in general is it better to tutor some one with a personal personality or determined ?

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This has been a really enjoyable thread to read, and has influenced my philosophy on the game so I'd just like to thank everyone who has contributed. I've got a quick question regarding scouting. When scouts look at players do they look mainly at the key attributes for the position they play, or do they just add all attributes together and compare them to your current players. This is something I've wondered for a while and just wondered if anyone had any insight.

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No I am talking in general is it better to tutor some one with a personal personality or determined ?

It depends on the youngster. You wouldn't want to use a professional tutor with 10 determination on a determined youngster with 18 determination but you might want to use the tutor on a youngster that has 7 determination. Then have that youngster tutored by someone who is quite professional but with a high determination

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No I am talking in general is it better to tutor some one with a personal personality or determined ?

I'd say first tutor them with a professional personality, because that impacts on their development. And when/before they start breaking into the first team tutor them with a determined player, because determination is also an in-match attribute.

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You can't loan out Under 17s, so you might well get in 2 tutoring sessions before they can be loaned out. After that, you might loan them out for one session per season and keep them for tutoring and occasional first team experience in the other half of the season.

And always set them as "can be recalled" when negotiating loan.

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Apologies if this has been covered here or elsewhere. If I send a player out on loan or send him to an affiliate, will he develop the same if the league is active or not? IE Bordeaux on my game are not in one of the active leagues, so the only games that Fabio is playing in are Europe League since there are no league games being played week in week out.

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Apologies if this has been covered here or elsewhere. If I send a player out on loan or send him to an affiliate, will he develop the same if the league is active or not? IE Bordeaux on my game are not in one of the active leagues, so the only games that Fabio is playing in are Europe League since there are no league games being played week in week out.

Is that what shows on his "Player Profile" page or in the "Fixtures" list of Bordeaux?

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Apologies if this has been covered here or elsewhere. If I send a player out on loan or send him to an affiliate, will he develop the same if the league is active or not? IE Bordeaux on my game are not in one of the active leagues, so the only games that Fabio is playing in are Europe League since there are no league games being played week in week out.

That's less than ideal. I know that inactive leagues tend to "simulate" a rough activity but I would only send players to an active league that is also being played in Full Detail. That's just me though, I want the most accurate simulation of my players development, and also I want the most accurate reports and outcomes so I can adequately study and make decisions on this players future.

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Is that what shows on his "Player Profile" page or in the "Fixtures" list of Bordeaux?

Fixture list for Bordeaux.

That's less than ideal. I know that inactive leagues tend to "simulate" a rough activity but I would only send players to an active league that is also being played in Full Detail. That's just me though, I want the most accurate simulation of my players development, and also I want the most accurate reports and outcomes so I can adequately study and make decisions on this players future.

Ty Kindly. My next game will have a few more active leagues then!

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This thread is genius mate. I had played several games on FM11 with bigger and higher reputation teams but using advice from this thread and the tactical threa I built a young team with 3-4 tutors, developed them all into top class players and won the Champions League in the 6th season. I was playing as Dinamo Zagreb in Croatia so understandably my reputation was poor. All of your guides make perfect sense and when implemented will not neccesarily guarantee sucess but you will overachieve at least. Thanks to you, I have given up on just plug and play and see what happens. Seeing my team use the little shouts and OI's and the effect they have on the games makes a world of difference. The single best piece of advice your threads is to take a real-world approach to your team and the games. When you do this everything falls into place.

Thanks again for a wonderful thread. You have reignited my FM addiction.

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Fixture list for Bordeaux.

Ty Kindly. My next game will have a few more active leagues then!

Check his Player Profile page, he may be playing a lot more games than what you see on the Bordeaux Fixture List.

Domestic league/cup fixtures don't appear on the fixture lists of Clubs playing in non-active Leagues, but they still play them, and with a little luck, so is your loanee.

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in fm 2007 ive created a youth academy routine that takes about 3-5 years to develop and deliver youngsters. usually players start the routine at 17-18 years old so will be ready to play at 22-23.

the basic is this:

1 year of tutoring (mainly for ppm)

1-2 years on loan/2nd team

1-2 years integrating into the 1st squad (mainly as a sub or as semi-regular)

i use a match routine. 1st team plays 3 games and then the 2nd team plays 1 game while the first team rests. (in practice it means i rest 3 1st team players every game and play the entire first team every 4th or most important game in the row of 4.)

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What leagues and countries do you recommend for scouting? I have 18 scouts at the moment scouting the major nations ( I think!), but it would be interesting to hear your thoughts and advice on this.

I have found these pages where the major footballing nations are listed. However I am not sure if that would work in FM.

- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_Football_Elo_Ratings

- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strongest_football_nations_by_Elo_Ratings

Would these lists work well?

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What leagues and countries do you recommend for scouting? I have 18 scouts at the moment scouting the major nations ( I think!), but it would be interesting to hear your thoughts and advice on this.

I have found these pages where the major footballing nations are listed. However I am not sure if that would work in FM.

- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_Football_Elo_Ratings

- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strongest_football_nations_by_Elo_Ratings

Would these lists work well?

Be sure to scout Africa around mid January every season. That's when their regens pop-up and there's atleast a few very good ones every year. Very cheap too.

Countries like Nigeria, Ghana, Senegal, Morocco, Algeria, Egypt, South Africa, Ivory Coast, etc... just send them to scout the continent, and take a look at the national teams U-20.

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:O 18? im not allowed more than 5.

I'm allowed 22 Scouts, and of course thats how many I have. But I was informed one day, by a backroom staff member, that 'this guy' would be a good addition to the scouting ranks!?

Intrigued, I offered the guy a contract, and there was the Board message that I had 20 Scouts & should have no more than 22! 20??? Quick test...

I discovered that no matter how many Scouts I employed the board only recognised 20 as being at the club?? (Southampton, FM10)

Is this a well known bug? It certainly can't be right.

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Yea , my team usually gets like 2-3 wonder kids a year.

I'm managing ac milan , I think its because my youth coaches are good , they have like 17-20 Potential ability judgment.

Now i don't know if thats why i get good youth but i think that helps, what do you guys think?

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