Marz Posted January 6, 2008 Share Posted January 6, 2008 Are people still interested or is everyone playing FM2008 already. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frag Posted January 6, 2008 Share Posted January 6, 2008 Very, very much so!!! Are you still working on this? Or ready to continue?? I'm ready and willing to help, test......whatever!!! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mitjabarbic Posted January 6, 2008 Share Posted January 6, 2008 i play FM 08 but i am trying to play Ajax style: ------GK------ ----DC--DC---- WBR--------WBL ---MC-MC-MC--- -------------- FR----FC----FR IT WORKS OK speccially away when i play on counter attacks, i have to tweek some more at home (getafe 3rd season) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frag Posted January 6, 2008 Share Posted January 6, 2008 As I remember it, during the mid 90's, Ajax's formation was as below:- <pre class="ip-ubbcode-code-pre"> Goalkeeper Sweeper Right Back Left Back Centre Back Right Midfielder Left Midfielder No. 10 Right Winger Centre Forward Left Winger </pre> Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frag Posted January 6, 2008 Share Posted January 6, 2008 In fact, I think Ajax have even used a similar formation this season a few times. It's a 4-3-3 with one of the centre-backs pushing into midfield to make a 3-4-3. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gourcuff20 Posted January 6, 2008 Share Posted January 6, 2008 if you`re playing FM07 ... then use this: GK RB CD CD LB CM CM AMR AML ST ST worked for me very fine reached the UEFA Cup Final, won the championship with a lot of points, and I had a record: 39 games without a defeat Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saintjonny Posted January 7, 2008 Share Posted January 7, 2008 if you`re playing FM07 ... then use this: GK RB CD CD LB CM CM AMR AML ST ST worked for me very fine reached the UEFA Cup Final, won the championship with a lot of points, and I had a record: 39 games without a defeat I dont think this is the way Ajax played in the 90's Litmanen was support man to Kanu with someone like Babangida & Overmars as the wingers, I also dont think they played with a flat back 4 since Rijkaard & De Boer were sweeping and holding in Midfield. Anyway, there are already 1 or 2 Ajax threads about. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joor Posted January 7, 2008 Share Posted January 7, 2008 I made a 3-4-3 ajax formation in Fm 07 which was great.. My post Apr 01, 18:05 : http://community.sigames.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/1519717/m/9482074072/p/4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LorDJm Posted January 7, 2008 Share Posted January 7, 2008 Originally posted by Marz:Are people still interested or is everyone playing FM2008 already. Did you took that loooong to create that for FM 07? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dbestfm Posted January 7, 2008 Share Posted January 7, 2008 Marz it would be great if you could do another detailed experiment and explanation of the Ajax system im sure everyone would get involved Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marz Posted January 7, 2008 Author Share Posted January 7, 2008 Originally posted by Frag:Very, very much so!!! Are you still working on this? Or ready to continue?? I'm ready and willing to help, test......whatever!!! Was and still am working on this. Current game (nearly 20 days real time) is into the 2nd week of the 2nd league season. I have a tactic ready, but I made a lot of changes towards the end of the season and in pre-season (early games are a good place to experiment). I want to test this tactic just a bit longer, first few CL games to see what its like against quality opposition. Early signs are good, beat Arsenal 4v1 in the Amsterdam Tournament. I have the rest of the week pretty much off so I can play most days. I’am hoping so release the System in time for the weekend, but I also want to rewrite and add to this http://community.sigames.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/1519717/m/320106592/p/1 for FM2007. Originally posted by mitjabarbic:i play FM 08 but i am trying to play Ajax style: ------GK------ ----DC--DC---- WBR--------WBL ---MC-MC-MC--- -------------- FR----FC----FR IT WORKS OK speccially away when i play on counter attacks, i have to tweek some more at home (getafe 3rd season) That’s a modern day 4-3-3 (defensive), might be an idea to have the central MC playing from DMC or with an back wards arrow (as Getafe are not exactly world beaters). Anyways this tread is more about the Ajax System during the van Gaal era, so more 3-4-3 based. But you or anyone else is welcome to contribute to this thread; as long as its on topics or has some relevance to it. Originally posted by Frag:As I remember it, during the mid 90's, Ajax's formation was as below:- <pre class="ip-ubbcode-code-pre"> Goalkeeper Sweeper Right Back Left Back Centre Back Right Midfielder Left Midfielder No. 10 Right Winger Centre Forward Left Winger </pre> Correct, but I prefer the term Midfield Libero for the No 4 (few terms going around the world). For the No 10 the Diamond Man seems to be a term most commonly used and I like due to the role he has to play within the System. Originally posted by Frag:In fact, I think Ajax have even used a similar formation this season a few times. It's a 4-3-3 with one of the centre-backs pushing into midfield to make a 3-4-3. I have not had much chance to watch Ajax games this season, due to them not being in European competition for long. L And I didn’t want to pay Setanta Sports for just 2 Dutch league matches (no more Serie A), when the top Dutch match is on Channel 5 with a weeks delay I think. I know they played the Ajax System against PSV at the ArenA (not sure if I’m mixing it up with last season). And I recently watch a clip on the Ajax website about the youth development scheme (just had a look but its gone). And in it there was a youngster who was moving magnetic pieces on a whiteboard. The pieces were laid out in the Ajax System and the coach gave input as to attacking or defending by Ajax or the opposition (think it was 442). So yes the Ajax System still gets used for the schooling of the youngsters at De Toekomst. Lets hope, that there will be another talented group like in the 90s with a daring coach who is willing to play this System consistently at the highest level. Originally posted by Saintjonny:if you`re playing FM07 ... then use this: GK RB CD CD LB CM CM AMR AML ST ST worked for me very fine reached the UEFA Cup Final, won the championship with a lot of points, and I had a record: 39 games without a defeat I dont think this is the way Ajax played in the 90's Litmanen was support man to Kanu with someone like Babangida & Overmars as the wingers, I also dont think they played with a flat back 4 since Rijkaard & De Boer were sweeping and holding in Midfield. Anyway, there are already 1 or 2 Ajax threads about. Its not. Finidi was The No 7, Babangida was the unsuccessful successor; due to poor end product bit like Mitea when he isn’t injured. Frag already posted the System up… Originally posted by LorDJm:<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Marz: Are people still interested or is everyone playing FM2008 already. Did you took that loooong to create that for FM 07? </div></BLOCKQUOTE> I don’t start my career game till the final patch for game comes out. Thats normally in the first quarter of the year. Some unfortunate events in real life meant that I couldn’t and didn’t want to play games till late last year. I also worked on a Mod which I want to release (although its nothing special unless people are interested in west African football). Which might mean that I want to play my career game till the final patch for FM2009 (yes next year). Originally posted by dbestfm:Marz it would be great if you could do another detailed experiment and explanation of the Ajax system im sure everyone would get involved I finally had a look at the FM2008 demo and it seems that not much has changed in terms or tactics options (so guessing mainly match engine). So it could be possible to just copy the whole thing into FM2008 or if Tactics from FM2007 work in FM8. 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Jorgen Posted January 8, 2008 Share Posted January 8, 2008 Hello Marz, As always I am very interested in your work for the Ajax-tactic. If you can make it work for FM 2007 that would be very nice. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frag Posted January 8, 2008 Share Posted January 8, 2008 Marz - do you need any help testing/tweaking? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marz Posted January 8, 2008 Author Share Posted January 8, 2008 Originally posted by Frag:Marz - do you need any help testing/tweaking? Thank you for the offer, but I will do what I have always done. Same System (bar a few tweaks to players and to counter the opposition tactic) played by all teams A1, A2 and A19 ). I play all A1 and Cup matches (for all teams) in full, so testing isn’t a problem. Already writing down a few personal ploys, which I will include when the tactic is available for download. I think this tactic will be one of my most adventures ever; so I'll expect a few players will struggle unless they play games in full detail. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marz Posted January 8, 2008 Author Share Posted January 8, 2008 Originally posted by Jorgen:Hello Marz, As always I am very interested in your work for the Ajax-tactic. If you can make it work for FM 2007 that would be very nice. Just having a few problems with the third man principle; it works but doesn’t help possession of the side. But its early days I have till Saturday morning to make it work. I really like the FM7 match engine. The engine can handle a lot of the general ploys of the Ajax System. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frag Posted January 8, 2008 Share Posted January 8, 2008 Marz, how have you lined up the 11? GK SW DRC DLC DM MRC MLC AMC FR FL FC ......... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marz Posted January 8, 2008 Author Share Posted January 8, 2008 Originally posted by Frag:Marz, how have you lined up the 11? GK SW DRC DLC DM MRC MLC AMC FR FL FC ......... FL S FR AMC | | MC v MC DMC | v DL---> DC <---DR | v Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sjaak boom Posted January 8, 2008 Share Posted January 8, 2008 Originally posted by Marz:I know they played the Ajax System against PSV at the ArenA (not sure if I’m mixing it up with last season). Ajax hasn't played against PSV yet this season, because of a police strike on the day it was supposed to take place. Lets hope, that there will be another talented group like in the 90s with a daring coach who is willing to play this System consistently at the highest level. I'm still hoping for Co Adriaanse, but the Ajax management, in their infinite wisdom, seem to want to go for Van Basten. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marz Posted January 9, 2008 Author Share Posted January 9, 2008 Originally posted by Marz:And I recently watch a clip on the Ajax website about the youth development scheme (just had a look but its gone). And in it there was a youngster who was moving magnetic pieces on a whiteboard. The pieces were laid out in the Ajax System and the coach gave input as to attacking or defending by Ajax or the opposition (think it was 442). So yes the Ajax System still gets used for the schooling of the youngsters at De Toekomst. Lets hope, that there will be another talented group like in the 90s with a daring coach who is willing to play this System consistently at the highest level. Toekomst: Heini Otto en de D2 Found it Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marz Posted January 10, 2008 Author Share Posted January 10, 2008 Originally posted by sjaak boom:<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Marz: Lets hope, that there will be another talented group like in the 90s with a daring coach who is willing to play this System consistently at the highest level. I'm still hoping for Co Adriaanse, but the Ajax management, in their infinite wisdom, seem to want to go for Van Basten. </div></BLOCKQUOTE> What about Martin Jol Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
quantez3 Posted January 10, 2008 Share Posted January 10, 2008 i think it will be Rijkaard Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Pain Posted January 10, 2008 Share Posted January 10, 2008 Marz do you know any good websites with details on the system as a whole? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marz Posted January 10, 2008 Author Share Posted January 10, 2008 Originally posted by quantez3:i think it will be Rijkaard Think he wants to take a break from the whole circus that is football management; or he will go relax at Milanello. Originally posted by The Pain:Marz do you know any good websites with details on the system as a whole? No sorry only the books I listed in my initial post (and the post itself). There were some DVD's around Ajax centenary. One which I recommend everyone who is interested in the Ajax System to get is the "1995". Its got the whole match of Ajax v Milan in full, and the second DVD is highlights of the whole season (all competitions). Official Ajax Shop in Dutch The flash website about the DVD's I have seen that there are new DVD's on Amazon.com but they cant be shipped outside the US yet. But I'll get them as soon as that is possible and add any new knowledge to my threads. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Pain Posted January 11, 2008 Share Posted January 11, 2008 I found this dutch documentary on Louis van Gaal. I have not watched it all, but it might be good. Sadly i don't speak dutch. Here I also found this Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joor Posted January 11, 2008 Share Posted January 11, 2008 "The Coaching Philosophies of Louis Van Gaal and the Ajax Coaches" is free on google books. You can read it here; http://books.google.dk/books?id=dmQxZB01uwkC&printsec=f...ELHvRtS7AHNhgQycNlgw Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joor Posted January 11, 2008 Share Posted January 11, 2008 Another great book is " Ajax Training Sessions" which you also can read on google books. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sjaak boom Posted January 11, 2008 Share Posted January 11, 2008 Originally posted by The Pain:I found this dutch documentary on Louis van Gaal. I have not watched it all, but it might be good. Sadly i don't speak dutch. Here I also found this The documentary is more about the person Van Gaal, during his last days at Ajax and his first days at Barcelona, and not so much about football. It is interesting though. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
micro-ice Posted January 11, 2008 Share Posted January 11, 2008 Originally posted by The Pain:I found this dutch documentary on Louis van Gaal. I have not watched it all, but it might be good. Sadly i don't speak dutch. Here I also found this suddenly i am inspired to start playing FM again Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marz Posted January 11, 2008 Author Share Posted January 11, 2008 I'll have to delay the release till late sunday (possibliy even monday night). Need some extra time testing, sorry. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Pain Posted January 12, 2008 Share Posted January 12, 2008 You should take as long as you need. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
larrie Posted January 12, 2008 Share Posted January 12, 2008 Marz, the tactic, is this for fm07 of fm08? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marz Posted January 12, 2008 Author Share Posted January 12, 2008 Originally posted by The Pain:You should take as long as you need. Yes sorry I've had this cold/flu thing half the country seems to have. So sitting in front of the computer like a zombie; not exactly flying through the days. Originally posted by larrie:Marz, the tactic, is this for fm07 of fm08? Ajax System for FM2007 – AFC Ajax – 1990s But I downloaded the FM8 demo, and it looks like you can use FM7 tactics (if someone could clear this up). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joor Posted January 12, 2008 Share Posted January 12, 2008 There is a huge difference between the FM8 demo and the 8.0.1 patch Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marz Posted January 12, 2008 Author Share Posted January 12, 2008 So FM2007 cant be used? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marz Posted January 12, 2008 Author Share Posted January 12, 2008 Originally posted by Marz:So FM2007 cant be used? Fecking cold cant think straight. So FM2007 tactics cant be used? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frag Posted January 12, 2008 Share Posted January 12, 2008 They CAN be used, but probably would be as effective. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joor Posted January 12, 2008 Share Posted January 12, 2008 You can use fm 2007 tactics in fm 2008. But alot has changed. I tired using a 3-4-3 but its so weak on the flanks, the opponent wings get to much free space. Even with max width and side arrow on DLC and DRC..and its really bad when the AI use offensive back who gets forward as often as possible Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joor Posted January 12, 2008 Share Posted January 12, 2008 As you can see in this pic when the opponent pass the ball fast from side to side : http://img519.imageshack.us/img519/2361/ajax1rn1.jpg http://img87.imageshack.us/img87/781/ajax2el8.jpg Way to much free space on the flanks(inter play a 4-4-2) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marz Posted January 13, 2008 Author Share Posted January 13, 2008 Originally posted by Joor:You can use fm 2007 tactics in fm 2008. But alot has changed. I tired using a 3-4-3 but its so weak on the flanks, the opponent wings get to much free space. Even with max width and side arrow on DLC and DRC..and its really bad when the AI use offensive back who gets forward as often as possible The backs should play from DL-5 and DR-2 (with inward arrows); that the problem I can see from the pictures. This then counters quick counter attacks by the opponent. When the opponents build-up is slower, the left-8 and right-6 midfielders should be in position to put pressure on the offensive backs. The wingers should be in position (stay upfront) to initiate quick counters (yours played to deep from what I see in the picture), some computers (managers) then tend to switch to a more defensive style or keep attacking and concede space (or depending on the strength of the side play normal/mix forward runs). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
horseman_Plague Posted January 15, 2008 Share Posted January 15, 2008 I cant get a 343 to work in fm08, 433 with amc, fl and fr works perfectly fine though. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
horseman_Plague Posted January 15, 2008 Share Posted January 15, 2008 343 gives the same problem joor is having. To much space on the wings especially when they double up on you or a free central attacker in the middle. Try to get a central defender who can also play dmc and likes to get forward. 2/3 more mentality then the other cd, forward runs mixed, lots of creative freedom and mixed/direct passing. If you have 2 of these allround super defenders make them switch position so they take turns in doing this. Most effective though is the 433 with a dmc or 3 allround always moving midfielders(my favorite). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frag Posted January 15, 2008 Share Posted January 15, 2008 Given up on this Marz? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coleman Posted January 16, 2008 Share Posted January 16, 2008 micro-ice, That van Gaal article is the best thing I've read on this forum this year! Do you have links to other coaches philosophies you can share? I had given up on the old Ajax model because of the defending the wings problem. I want to try again, but I think I'll have trouble getting a player like Kompany to come to Villa to play that crucial part of DC/DM. I think he might go to Spurs, but I would have to deal with the too many strikers/no left winger problems first, and I can't be bothered. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
quantez3 Posted January 16, 2008 Share Posted January 16, 2008 Originally posted by Coleman:I had given up on the old Ajax model because of the defending the wings problem. i think that in order to make the system work properly for FM2008 you will have to make some changes at the back, afterall it is a game and not RL. I think the solution is a flat back 4 where one fullback put pressure on the flank where the ball is at. the other FB provides support in the middle. The only thing i don't get to work is to let your DC come forward when in possession without farrow. suggestions? BTW: how do you get your FL/FR to be effective? in my opinion, they are very static and easily marked. They are not providing the crosses/passes to 9 and 10 as they should. Most goals are now from my 6 and 8 with their rushes into the box Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
quantez3 Posted January 16, 2008 Share Posted January 16, 2008 Originally posted by quantez3:I think the solution is a flat back 4 where one fullback put pressure on the flank where the ball is at. the other FB provides support in the middle. this is also shown in the PDF about van Gaal "objective creates excersise" (diagram 10). PS sorry for double post, can't edit Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Pain Posted January 16, 2008 Share Posted January 16, 2008 Originally posted by Coleman:micro-ice, That van Gaal article is the best thing I've read on this forum this year! Do you have links to other coaches philosophies you can share? I had given up on the old Ajax model because of the defending the wings problem. I want to try again, but I think I'll have trouble getting a player like Kompany to come to Villa to play that crucial part of DC/DM. I think he might go to Spurs, but I would have to deal with the too many strikers/no left winger problems first, and I can't be bothered. That was me and no i don't have any other articles on other coaching philosophies. I've been trying to create the system but having the same problems that quantez3 has had. I'm going to try a back four with the two center backs on run with ball often and mixed passing Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Pain Posted January 16, 2008 Share Posted January 16, 2008 I've gone back to what Marz has been using because i did not like the way the center backs played. I will start a new game as AZ Alkmaar tomorrow because they have the right players for the system. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
quantez3 Posted January 16, 2008 Share Posted January 16, 2008 Originally posted by The Pain:I've gone back to what Marz has been using because i did not like the way the center backs played. I will start a new game as AZ Alkmaar tomorrow because they have the right players for the system. that's strange, IRL van Gaal switched with AZ to 41212 because of the lack of 433/343 players Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Pain Posted January 16, 2008 Share Posted January 16, 2008 Originally posted by quantez3:<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by The Pain: I've gone back to what Marz has been using because i did not like the way the center backs played. I will start a new game as AZ Alkmaar tomorrow because they have the right players for the system. that's strange, IRL van Gaal switched with AZ to 41212 because of the lack of 433/343 players </div></BLOCKQUOTE> Yeah i know but they still have the players to play the system imo. I would play it like this. Waterman Jaliens Donk Opdam Mendes da silva de Zeeuw Schaars Medunjanin Jenner (Any choice of striker) Martens i think they are the best team to use without having to buy the right players. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
crazyscotsman Posted January 16, 2008 Share Posted January 16, 2008 quantez3: I am currently playing around with this formation as well. I currently have my DC/DM starting in the diamond dm position with a barrow to the left DC position. I find by doing this my DC and DM to not play on top of each other but line up side by side when defending- my two full backs I have sarrows to take them wide. Originally posted by quantez3:<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Coleman: I had given up on the old Ajax model because of the defending the wings problem. i think that in order to make the system work properly for FM2008 you will have to make some changes at the back, afterall it is a game and not RL. I think the solution is a flat back 4 where one fullback put pressure on the flank where the ball is at. the other FB provides support in the middle. The only thing i don't get to work is to let your DC come forward when in possession without farrow. suggestions? BTW: how do you get your FL/FR to be effective? in my opinion, they are very static and easily marked. They are not providing the crosses/passes to 9 and 10 as they should. Most goals are now from my 6 and 8 with their rushes into the box </div></BLOCKQUOTE> Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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