PPM advice sought

[telV7]

I am seeking some advice about PPM's. For the most part I tend to go along with information provided by back room staff, and there is every chance that I am going about it the wrong way.

I have a vague understanding that certain PPM's are required for positional play and have done some reading around the various places about PPM's in general which has helped somewhat.

My aim from this thread is to hopefully find common ground about PPM's that I can then take and apply the same thinking for all other players and positions.

The player in question is M Gueye. I like him and think he is a really good young player, also one of the few successes I have had in that I retrained him from a AML to ML.

In the formation I play, he plays as a ML,

Role: Winger, Duty: Attack.

The rest of his settings are below and as you can see they are all default. These very rarely change, but on the odd occasion I do change wide play to "move into channels"

Attribute and Positions below

As mentioned I tend to follow back room advice, so probably overhead kicks are a little wasted (oops on my part, couldn't help it and thought it would be pretty cool).

The others,

Run with ball down left, I see the reasoning.

Cuts inside again maybe a little pointless as my understanding is cuts inside works better if they are on the opposite side to their best foot.

Now the new one which prompted this post, is that I have been advised to ask him "not to always stick to the left side of the pitch when dribbling".

So I am a little lost to be honest, and it has got me looking at PPM's and wondering whether I am wasting my players time in doing unnecessary things.

I am wondering whether I am giving players more options when playing or if I am just confusing them, such that when in possession, Gueye isn't sure as to whether he should run down left, cut inside, dribble the ball infield.

I then look at my other players and wonder whether they should or should not have a certain PPM and how in turn this affects the whole team performance. Could my results be different if certain players had certain PPMS' removed or added

In essence there are several things contained in my post that I hope encourage some debate, which I hope I expressed in a clear manner.

Thanks

[deserter]

In my opinion:

Runs with ball down left would be good for someone that you wish to break through between the full back and the sideline with the ball and cross.

M. Gueye can manage the running part easy enough but he's not too good at crossing. He seems to be reasonably creative and PPM's that encourage to such simple play will take something out of that.

Looking at his attributes, he looks like a striker and cuts inside (while kind-of-opposite to runs with ball down left) is good for him to get into scoring positions.

I have nothing on overhead kicks.

What I would do is to let him unlearn that 'runs with ball down left' and train him to 'get into opposition area' to promote the striker within him.

[Frank327]

I actually think retraining him to be a ML may not have been the best of choices. He really doesn't have the skillset for it. He'd be better off playing as a striker or AML as inside forward, although that may not fit with your tactics. I say, as long as it doesn't cost any CA to train, it's OK to teach him new PPM's. But he's got high enough decision making and off the ball to not rely on PPM's. It's best just to hope that cuts inside and runs with ball down left cancel each other out a bit.

I say don't waste any CA on preferred moves, and instead focus training on crossing. He's got a lot of speed and dribbling skill, so he'll become a good versatile player. If you teach him any PPM's at all, they should be helping him to get past the fullback and get the cross/shot in.

[telV7]

Thanks to you both for the responses, I was thinking the thread was doomed.

The thing is I didn't see half of what both of you mentioned, nor, could I have expressed it in the way you both have.

Quickly, just on Gueye, I understand what you both mentioned with regards to crossing, and his individual focus is on crossing. Possibly slowed any increase in that attribute due to new position training, match prep, etc. He was at the Club when I came in and in the two seasons, he scored 5 a season, plus a couple of MoM's a season. Quite a number of times he has been a bit of a super sub, comes on and creates something out of very little, either a goal or an assist. Considering at the start he seemed very much a fringe player, now he is a solid part of the first team.

Back to PPMs,

It's best just to hope that cuts inside and runs with ball down left cancel each other out a bit..

So from that, if PPM's don't compliment one another then essentially they are wasted. The idea that you are giving a player an increased skills set with loads of PPM's is actually just creating problems

But he's got high enough decision making and off the ball to not rely on PPM's.

A little confused with statement, as it can be interpreted in a couple of different ways, one being, players with low stats in those two areas rely on preferred moves being drilled into them to compensate, the second is players with good stats in those two areas don't need PPM's as they have the skills as part of their attributes

I say don't waste any CA on preferred moves, and instead focus training on crossing. He's got a lot of speed and dribbling skill, so he'll become a good versatile player. If you teach him any PPM's at all, they should be helping him to get past the fullback and get the cross/shot in.

Kind of contradicts , but I am thinking you mean he could be just a good all round player

What I would do is to let him unlearn that 'runs with ball down left' and train him to 'get into opposition area' to promote the striker within him.

I will give that a go, as it is kind of how I envisage the style of play that I would like to see. Even though I play him in an ML position, with the winger role I want him to get forward and help support my striker

Thanks again.

[golgepapaz]

PPMs don't cost any CA, just my two cents

[Frank327]

I don't know exactly how PPM's work, but I'm pretty sure they affect what choices players make. So for example "runs with ball down left" doesn't actually make him better at running at a ball down the left hand side, but makes him choose to do that more often. So PPM's are a way to make players make better decisions by making them favour moves that they are good at. But I think with high decision skill the player can actually make the best decision without PPM's. So if he thinks he can get past the fullback he'll make a run down the flank, and if there's lots of space in the middle he'll cut inside.

But yeah, the player doesn't really need any PPM's, but if you want him to fill a specific role in the team go ahead and train him for it. I don't think backroom advice in that area should be followed. They often suggest really stupid things anyways.

[Koppol]

I don't know exactly how PPM's work, but I'm pretty sure they affect what choices players make. So for example "runs with ball down left" doesn't actually make him better at running at a ball down the left hand side, but makes him choose to do that more often. So PPM's are a way to make players make better decisions by making them favour moves that they are good at.

This in Bold is exactly correct. PPM's are exactly what they say they are: Player Preffered Moves. It's an action that your player is most comfortable doing on, or off, the ball. So, by teaching your players PPM's you're modifying their preffered style of play on the pitch. This can be a huge bonus in setting up tactical instructions for a desired way of playing. For instance, Do you want Wingers that play close to the line and whip crosses in, or do you want Inside FWD's that often move into channels and make intelligent runs in behind the opposition defence?

For a traditional Winger helpful PPM's would include: e.g. Aaron Lennon, Gareth Bale

* Hugs Touchline

* Runs with ball down Left/Right

* Runs with ball often

For an Inside Forward: e.g. Arsharvin, Villa, Pedro

* Cuts Inside or Moves Into Channels

* Likes to Beat Offside Trap

* Plays One Twos -> to bounce off the ST quickly

* Places Shots - > you expect him to be through on goal 1v1

Hopefully this makes sense. I always look at a players PPM's before I'll purchase him. They can play a huge part in how well a player will adapt to your tactical philosophy.

From what you have written above it sounds like you know want to play him as an Inside FWD role? In that case I would look to remove Runs with ball down left and train Places Shots/Beats Offside Trap or Gets FWD often.

Places Shots to help his strike rate in front of goal. And the latter two to attempt to help him get in on goal 1v1 using his pace.

Hope that helped!

[telV7]

Thanks Koppol, very much appreciate the effort.

How I want the team to play I find a little tricky, as it is a balancing act between what your 'real life ' mind thinks and actual game mechanics.

With the particular player mentioned I would like him to do a myriad of things, with the ball I want him bombing down the line and looking to cross or cut inside, off the ball I want him making those intelligent runs you mentioned, giving options.

Then there is the formation, taking into the consideration the bigger picture, maybe it is wrong when weighed up against my expectations.

So the formation is a 4-2-3-1 Asymmetric.

I use this one because in my head it is the only one that I can see (or at least think I see) how it is supposed to work. To me it looks like it covers the pitch well, without giving away too much space between players, so to me that means good passing options. I think there is a fluidity about its shape, so it can go from attack to defend quite smoothly, which to me means good movement and easy transitional play. I suppose very linear in a way.

Apologies I am not very good with explaining tactics

Oh and yes it has helped ... thanks

[Koppol]

Thanks Koppol, very much appreciate the effort.

How I want the team to play I find a little tricky, as it is a balancing act between what your 'real life ' mind thinks and actual game mechanics.

With the particular player mentioned I would like him to do a myriad of things, with the ball I want him bombing down the line and looking to cross or cut inside, off the ball I want him making those intelligent runs you mentioned, giving options.

Then there is the formation, taking into the consideration the bigger picture, maybe it is wrong when weighed up against my expectations.

So the formation is a 4-2-3-1 Asymmetric.

I use this one because in my head it is the only one that I can see (or at least think I see) how it is supposed to work. To me it looks like it covers the pitch well, without giving away too much space between players, so to me that means good passing options. I think there is a fluidity about its shape, so it can go from attack to defend quite smoothly, which to me means good movement and easy transitional play. I suppose very linear in a way.

Apologies I am not very good with explaining tactics

Oh and yes it has helped ... thanks

With a 4-2-3-1 formation you're going to want your wide players making forward runs often, as otherwise your incisive edge is lost. Lone ST's are best used as false 9's on FM in my experience --> Deep, creative players who can drag defenders out of position for wide players to exploit.

From what you have said, and knowing a bit more about your tactics + the players attributes, I'd recommend keeping Cuts Inside and possibly training Plays One Twos - to aid as an offensive passing option higher up the pitch and Tries to beat offside trap - to exploit his strength: his pace.

However, if you feel like coming inside too often will be detrimental to your game plan, you can remove it, possibly replacing it with Move Into Channels which would better allow him to make runs in behind a defense moved out of position by a lone ST's movement.

Whether you want to keep Runs with Ball down Left is up to you. It may mean he's a little one dimensional for your fluid tactics. It seems like you want Total Football, for me dribbling in only one part of the pitch is not that. Tries Overhead Kicks is an excellent party piece though! Not many players have that.

[telV7]

http://www.mediafire.com/file/a6i44eqmh8a3q9e/4-2-3-1%20asymmetric-%20t07%20%28Everton%2C%20Oct%202012%29.tac

That's if you wish to have a look, but you will probably have a WTF moment as it is nothing special to say the least.

I am doing my best to try and remove runs with ball down left, however, he is being somewhat recalcitrant. I do get him to move into channels, as at times I feel he gets caught too easy just hugging the line. so getting him moving infield helps his game sometimes, depending on the opposition

Total football would be good, from memory I think SFraser touched on it in one his articles, and Cleon did something as well. helius had his zona mista tac which was good reading. But yes bit of a fan.

thanks again

[Koppol]

http://www.mediafire.com/file/a6i44eqmh8a3q9e/4-2-3-1%20asymmetric-%20t07%20%28Everton%2C%20Oct%202012%29.tac

That's if you wish to have a look, but you will probably have a WTF moment as it is nothing special to say the least.

I am doing my best to try and remove runs with ball down left, however, he is being somewhat recalcitrant. I do get him to move into channels, as at times I feel he gets caught too easy just hugging the line. so getting him moving infield helps his game sometimes, depending on the opposition

Total football would be good, from memory I think SFraser touched on it in one his articles, and Cleon did something as well. helius had his zona mista tac which was good reading. But yes bit of a fan.

thanks again

Haha no WTF moment, it just looks like a tactic from someone who's still looking to learn - which in my book should be everyone!

SFraser and Cleon are two heroes of mine on these forums. I've pretty much read every thread on tactics/management they've made. SFraser's philosophy is one I've taken as a base strategy and moulded to my own image. Total Football, but my Total Football if you catch my drift.

I think anyone who's keen to learn should be given his profile page as mandatory homework.

If it's fluidity you're after I think your formation is fine. I'm a fan of the Barca 4-3-3 (4-5-1) or the 4-2-3-1 personally, as it allows me to play the false nine role beautifully. Haven't had a ST partnership in a while now. I'm a big fan in wide players being both creators and finishers. So rather than speed and dribbling, I look for finishing, composure, technique, decisions, teamwork, anticipation, off the ball. Pretty much Pedro and Villa, to a T. With your system I think this would be something to consider.

As I can see it, you haven't tweaked the standard roles of players, how much success have you been having? What's your view on possession etc. With a bit more information I can hopefully give you a few tips to help you create your own brand of fluid football.

[telV7]

As I can see it, you haven't tweaked the standard roles of players, how much success have you been having?

That was the WT moment.

Your right it is pretty much a bog standard tactic. Every now and again I will tick move into channels for Gueye, and if I have Pienaar as an ML, again, every now and again I will tick cut inside.

My thinking has been that through tweaking you will affect OI and shouts. Now my personal belief is that those two features are not eye candy, and so to fully utilize them I just have a formation with roles I am quite happy with (which is not to say those roles are correct for that formation). I also think the Assistant feedback is important and vastly under utilized.

So my strategy has been to interpret the assistant feedback and make the necessary changes via the shouts or by changing strategy (standard, contol, etc). The other thing is I do all Press conferences, team talks the whole lot, plus all matches are played in full. Basically I play with as much control as I can.

As to success, I do ok. Started with Everton and am in my third season.

First season, I messed round with formation alot, pretty much ignored all Assistant instructions etc. I finished 7th, lost in the final of the League Cup, and won the FA Cup

Second season is when I really knuckled down and payed attention to the Assistant, finished 6th, lost in semi final of the league cup, knocked out in the quarter final of the Europa, won the community shield, won the FA Cup.

Third season not much has happened, won the community shield, and top of the group in Europa, EPL only played about 5 or 6 and I am in 9th.

What's your view on possession etc. With a bit more information I can hopefully give you a few tips to help you create your own brand of fluid football.

I tend to look at much of the stats and query the validity. Possession and passing seems to be everyones bugbear, "the how can I when I had" topics. For me, no point in 70% possession if you aren't doing anything with it, and passing no point in 80% if you just holding it in the midfield.

Tackling again another which people use to express domination, I lost to ManU in the dying minutes, playing counter, short passing, stand off, more cautious and shouts retain possession, play narrower. I didn't want to tackle, I was hoping to just move them out of scoring positions and it kind of worked for about 80 mins.

With the 4-2-3-1 Asymm formation,

The ST comes deep to help build attacks, his width should be no wider than the penalty area (they are always drifting out wide),

ML as mentioned already bombs down the line, then either cross, or should be looking to cut inside early when in possession looking for AMC or ST to pass. When supporting attacking play he should be in and around the ST which gives an option for him to shoot

AMC, should be the General, roaming looking for space dictating the attack and also giving options. He needs to control play and look for killer balls to ML, AMR, and ST as well as scoring himself.

AMR, very much an inside forward, I don't really like him running to the byline all the time, I need him to get inside and look to pass sharp to AMC or ST for scoring

MC kind of Box to Box but I don't think it that necessary, when under pressure I like him to drop back and help out, in attack I like him moving up looking for either ML or AMC,

DMC, the first point of control when in attack as it is all laid out in front of him, and the bouncer at the door for the defence

CB they seem to work ok in that formation, they don't tend to get caught out too much through over committing

FB, I may have one set to winger (DL) as the ML moves up he drop in to fill the gap, DR stay a little deeper and not bomb all the way forward.

With its shape I would say it should be a possession based at a medium tempo with sharp passing. With its transitional movement from attack to defence it should be a heavy pressing to dispossess quickly so pushing up alot, though it can be exposed at the back a little.

I don't think it makes a great counter attacking strategy as it is not aggressive enough,

As a defence strategy I think it would be very good

Now part of that is how I see it when I just simply look at it and also a little of how it plays , but,how much of it works/applies in FM is probably a different story.

Not sure what you will make of all that, but would be interested in your ideas as it would be good to get more of an understanding.

thanks

edit- you do realise you may have bitten off more than you can chew by offering tutelage, so please don't feel obliged if it is falling into the too hard basket

[Koppol]

I've begun to type now, might not finish till tomorrow arvo, University keeps me from football manager all too often. I'm also from Melbourne so by arvo I mean our time.

I'd love to go through your tactics with you though. It gives me new ideas for my own team.

[Neil Train]

deserter: you've just taught me something!! didnt realise you could train "gets into opposition area" i always went into private chat-->preferred moves-->movement training and it wasnt on the list so i've gone and spent 37million buying two wingers with this ppm.

ok, my posts today are now redundant i'm happy i read this thread! many, many thanks!

neil

[Neil Train]

ok, i spoke too soon: i cant get into "preferred move training" the drop down isnt working, what am i doing wrong?????

[Neil Train]

do i have a bug? i figure ppm moves training would solve all my problem but there really is no drop down next to it. darn!

[deserter]

deserter: you've just taught me something!! didnt realise you could train "gets into opposition area" i always went into private chat-->preferred moves-->movement training and it wasnt on the list so i've gone and spent 37million buying two wingers with this ppm.

ok, my posts today are now redundant i'm happy i read this thread! many, many thanks!

neil

Ah, I assumed that it would be an option, but it isn't. You could try 'gets forward often' instead.

[Neil Train]

NOTHING is an option for me, the drop down is non-existent. does it not appear at the beginning of a game? darn, i've dual-posted now, am bound to get in trouble with the mods.....

seriously, am stuck at the beginning of the game because i want to know why i dont have the "preferred move training" dropdown. any ideas?

thanks, neil

[Koppol]

I think you’re right when you look at your formation and imagine it would be advantageous for possession/ being tight defensively, yet not as great at counter-attacking/aggressive closing down.

You should be able to look at your formation and envision what its strengths are, what you idealise it to be, and attempt to fulfil this tactically. Where this sometimes falls apart is the lack of understanding of attributes/game mechanics. Sometimes the game is not as intuitive tactically as we expect, which is where practice comes in. The more time you spend with the game the more you understand it. Then you’re more likely to be able to exploit this understanding to achieve the philosophy you envisioned!

So let’s have a look at your basic formation and see how we can apply a fluid, total football-esque approach.

During this process I am likely to become incredibly self indulgent, possibly posting some relevant screens of my tactics. Currently in my Arsenal save I’m playing a similar philosophy, albeit it in a 4-2-3-1. So do bear with me! Also, I do play classic tactics – I feel I have more control over my team this way, however, not having the shouts makes mid-game tweaking slightly more painful. Matter of personal preference really.

Right so let’s start with the players in your formation and what attributes/instructions you might be after:

GK: Nothing fancy here, the only thing I ever tactically do with my GK is reduce his passing, set him to distribute to Defender Collect, and limit his creative freedom. That way we’ll be building from the back, keeping the ball, and looking to launch a probing attack, rather than a hurried one. If you’re so inclined you could set the GK to Quick Throw out to your FB’s if you want to launch counter-attacks. This could be useful against bigger teams if you’re constantly under the pump.

CB’s: There are two general styles most people use with CB’s: Two who are good at everything, or two who are complimentary. By complimentary I mean classically a Stopper/Cover pairing. For me the attributes which are of utmost importance for CB’s are Anticipation, Positioning, Tackling. Basically, reading the game properly so you can make a challenge (Anticipation), being positioned correctly to make a challenge (Positioning) and then being able to effectively make the challenge (Tackling). Defensive intelligence can make up for a lack of pace or aerial ability in exceptional cases. Secondary attributes you want are: Strength, Marking, Concentration, Decisions, Composure, Bravery. You should also always have a CB with height and high Heading, Jumping so you are not outdone in the air.

Personally I play a complementary pair as seen by these two screenshots:

http://img829.imageshack.us/f/mangane.jpg/

http://img109.imageshack.us/i/vermaelen.png/

Mangane is my destroyer -> excellent in the air, with high Bravery, Aggression, Tackling, Strength

Vermaelen my intelligent player -> high Anticipation, Positioning and Tackling.

However, both have good stats for all the above attributes I mentioned.

Tactically, I set Vermaelen’s mentality slightly below Mangane’s so Mangane is the one to challenge most of the balls in the air and also the one to rush out and close down players first. Vermaelen’s reading of the game allows him to be placed in positions so that if Mangane is caught out of position, Tommy’s got him covered. This is also reflected in their relative Closing Down instructions. Their passing is set low so that they retain possession, but not so low that they can’t pick out options ahead of them. I don’t like my defenders to think about much else other than the opposition’s attacking threat so their creative freedom is low.

I’m a fan of zonal marking, so they are set up to pick up players in their area, however, if you’d rather have players man mark that’s entirely up to you. They are both set to Move Into Channels to cover the FB’s who often advance up the pitch into offensive positions. For some reason this works v. Well. I don’t think anyone has yet worked out why.

Next up: FB's and CM's

Edit: If it's pre-season Alan your players might not be back training yet, and the player won't have this option till they return.

[Koppol]

FB’s: For me FB’s should be able to do a little bit of everything. They’re key players in bridging attacking and defensive phases of play. Key attributes I look for are: Anticipation, Decisions, Work Rate, Stamina, Teamwork, Tackling. Basically I want players that can motor up the wing for most of the game, acting as passing options for my centre midfielders, as well as getting back to defend. But they should know when to do so. They should also never stop running. Secondary attributes I look for are: Positioning, Off the Ball, First Touch, Passing. This aids in ball retention, as I don’t play FB’s as crossers I overlook the need for dribbling and crossing, however, these are also attributes that are handy for an offensive minded full-back.

Looking at the way you want your FB’s to operate you want your left FB to be Running from Deep Often, this will better allow him to fill in the space left by the advancing ML. I’d turn creative freedom down, as a FB should be a bridging player and not a creative genius. Passing I set to notch seven, first one of mixed, so he has a good range of passing options in midfield without looking to launch the ball long often. Depending on how good your FB’s Creativity and Vision is you can adjust Through Balls accordingly. For your right FB, who is more holding, I’d reduce Running from Deep to sometimes, which allows him to join midfield as a passing option, but not get caught too far forward.

DMC: Right, having looked at your tactics here this player’s role is set as Deep-Lying Playmaker, which for me is probably not aligned to the role you want him to play completely. If you want him to be a “bouncer for the defence” he’ll have to be set up as a modified defensive midfielder, with increased creative freedom and mixed passing. You’ll want him holding his position so Runs from Deep should be Rarely, period. Otherwise he’ll be leaving a great big gap in midfield for clever, little playmakers to exploit. Through Balls should be set to Often, if you truly want him to act as a playmaker on the ball. Runs with Ball should be set to Sometimes or Rarely, depending on whether you want him to dwell on the ball as he moves into midfield with it himself, or look to play short passes sideways and back, opening himself up for a return pass. Key Attributes for this kind of role: Anticipation, Positioning, Tackling, First Touch, Passing, Creativity, Decisions, Teamwork. Secondary characteristics I would see as a great bonus: Strength, Acceleration, Composure, Concentration. The absolute perfect example of this player is Sergio Busquets. A player I see as an FM demi-god; he’s just the perfect anchoring player in midfield for a fluid philosophy.

This is a look at my defensive minded player in a holding midfield role. He’s set to keep it simple and fill the midfield gap where the ball is likely to break.

http://img825.imageshack.us/i/arsenalarsenaltacticsdi.jpg/

And here are a look at my chief holding midfielder's attributes:

http://img233.imageshack.us/i/aloudiarraprofileattrib.jpg/

If your CDM is a creative player and not much cop defensively, you’ll have to make sure he is surrounded by players who are: chiefly the CM player. Think Pirlo and Gattuso.

[telV7]

University keeps me from football manager all too often.

Funny, I have the same issue with work

Read through what you have posted and will probably re-read it several more times, as I really won't have a chance to fire up the game even to just cross reference, for the next couple of days.

I appreciate what you have done, and enjoyed reading it as it has been interesting and has given me more to think on and look at. I am sure I will have some questions firing back at you, though

[Koppol]

Ok, sorry about the break between posts, but I’m back and eager to continue on through the roles in your team. University, real life football and whatnot...

CM: OK so from what i can gather you want this man to be the pivot, the transition between attack and defence. Someone who can contribute to all phases, hence Box-to-Box is a fine choice. Now, you earlier posted that your CAM should be the general. With that I disagree. This player should be your general. Think Stevie G when he was younger, and in my opinion, when he was better; or Frank Lampard, with slightly better defensive prowess. Either way this player needs to be able to do it all, well most of it anyway...

If total football in possession is your aim, this player needs to be intelligent. Intelligent and technical. He needs to be like Xavi, which is a stretch as there is no-one like Xavi, well except for maybe Cesc. If, however, your CDM is the technically gifted player you want this guy to be intelligent, physical and defensively competent. He needs to be a foil for the playmaker. Either way you need the pair to complement each other, I know I keep referring to Barca here – forgive me – but you need one of them to be a Busquets. Ok so the attributes: assuming you want this player to be able to contribute to multiple phases he has to be fit and able to read the game; Anticipation, Teamwork, Workrate, Stamina, Off the Ball, Decisions, Positioning are key.

If the player is key to moving the ball around the pitch you also want: Creativity, Passing, First Touch, Composure, not as key but Agility and Balance can also be excellent.

If the CDM is the technically gifted player you’ll want: Strength, Tackling, Concentration, aerial ability is also a plus.

OK so assuming this player is technical and key to distributing possession – as I’ve already outlined tactical instructions for a defensive minded player in my previous post – these are some of the instructions I’d use:

Mentality: Depending on where you want him to sit in your formation I usually use 10-12. 12 If I want him to be on the ball slightly further up the pitch, 10 if I want him coming deep to get on the ball often. Depends how crucial he is to your distribution of the ball.

Creative Freedom: Entirely at your discretion.

Passing: Mixed, slightly shorter or more direct depending on your overall tactic. I like to use shorter because I hate CM’s wasting possession: P.S. I am a CM

Tackling: Hard, I like my players to get stuck in in my midfield, particularly if there’s three of them.

Closing Down: Match it to your overall pressing tactics: High D-line, higher closing down. My personal preference is to press higher and higher up the pitch to win the ball back. Go with whatever you feel is right. '

Runs From Deep: If you want him in both phases: Sometimes; if you want him to hold the bleeding midfield: Rarely

Through Balls: If he’s good on the ball: Often. For me he always is so it’s always Often.

Runs with Ball, Crosses and Long Shots are up to you. Personally I hate crossing and long shots they stop my players from keeping the ball. However, if things aren’t working always be prepared to change! Couple of games ago 1-1 70th minute, change Cesc to Long Shots sometimes: scores. I can sit back in the chair feeling like I’ve done a good job.

Ok that was a lot for one player, but for me central players are key to a team’s philosophy. If you want to keep possession they have to keep possession. If you want to be strong, and physical they have to be strong and physical.

Anyway here’s a look at my intelligent CM’s settings: The player’s who play this role for me are Fabregas, Wilshere, M’vila, Song. Each a little different and offering me something different. A good manager always has a plan. Having options makes that plan a lot easier.

http://img192.imageshack.us/i/arsenalarsenaltactics2.jpg/

Feel free to fire Q's in at anytime. I'm sure I've made some of these points quite difficult to understand with my excessive blathering. I'll keep writing these player posts though as I get time, and I'll respond to any Q's as I see them

Edit: Also if any of the image links are too small, awful etc. let me know and I'll re-upload; I'm still getting the hang of Imageshack

[dreghorn2]

NOTHING is an option for me, the drop down is non-existent. does it not appear at the beginning of a game? darn, i've dual-posted now, am bound to get in trouble with the mods.....

seriously, am stuck at the beginning of the game because i want to know why i dont have the "preferred move training" dropdown. any ideas?

thanks, neil

Ok, now i'm confused.

Are we saying that their is a drop down menu for PPM training?

I was under the impression that a PPM could only be trained via the 'chat' option.

I see where the PPM training 'menu' is on the players training page, but their is no drop down, and PPMs only appear here if the player has agreed to train via the chat option.

Edit: If it's pre-season Alan your players might not be back training yet, and the player won't have this option till they return.

Am i missing something?

[Koppol]

Not at all, PPM's never used to be trained via the Private Chat Interaction which is where Alan got confused, he still thought it was in the old FM system. The above bold comment was a theory I had, which is wrong.

[telV7]

Ok, so now that I have a day off I can finally get my teeth into what you have written.

Based on your description I have gone through and set up a TC based tactic, which, may or may not resemble what you described.

Further thinking about the Asymmetric formation has given rise to the idea it requires a patient style of play. So with that I have stuck to the Rigid, Control strategies.

In order to try and replicate your suggestions within the TC, the playing style I chose the following.

Closing down- press more

Marking – man marking

Crossing – Float crosses

All others remain default.

The interesting thing has been the player roles and duties and what you are able to implement without tweaking.

Just quickly on ‘tweaking’, I am personally quite apprehensive about doing so. I have placed a high degree of importance on shouts, oi, and Assistant feedback, and, then inhibiting those aspects due to tweaking. Possibly a little ridiculous on my part.

Player roles, I experimented with the various settings and, I think I have managed to come up with something comparable.

GK- Defend - tweak: Distribution – Defender collect

DL – Wing Back – Support

DR – Full Back – Support

CBL – Central Defender – Stopper

CBR – Central Defend – Defend

DM- Defensive Midfielder – Defend

CMR – Advanced Playmaker – Support

ML – Winger – Attack - tweak: Cross Ball – rarely : Wide Play – Cut Inside

AMR – Advanced Playmaker – Attack

AMC – Inside Forward – Attack

ST – Complete Forward – Support - tweak: Cross Ball – Rarely : Wide Play – Normal : Roam From Position – No

Overall, I find the mentality structure of the team quite balanced and my thinking is that the patience mentioned earlier will be quite evident. Whilst, I think it looks ok, I am curious to see how it plays given the amount of support roles in place.

My next match I will play it as a plug and play and see how it works.

[telV7]

So the first match using the new tactic. I did actually write up a ton of stuff, feedback after every 15, screenshots every fifteen, morale fluctuations and the list goes on. However at the end I really wasn't sure what would be relevant for eveyone :confused:. . . anyway;

Statistically it looks quite good, and the overall Assistant feedback was we were in control of the match, keeping possession and passing well. Apart from the odd play more direct, play shorter it all seemed to sit ok. Granted it is one match I know. As I mentioned I played it as a plug and play so possibly making changes would have gotten a better result sooner.

The left hand side seemed to link up really well, and the ML setting had him moving in a lot more, I don't think he actually put in a cross for the game.

The DR pretty much played a holding role and I think had the most tackles for the game. Tackling over all seemed to decrease as the game went on so not sure there

I think the tactic is a pretty good start, so interested to hear what you think (and others, ahem err, Cleon, SFraser, wwfan, heath, et all, nudge nudge, wink wink, say no more hehe)

The PKM is at the bottom so if you wish to watch or look at the analysis stats.

http://www.mediafire.com/file/qjhh9mz2rvsq9h4/Birmingham%20v%20Everton.pkm

[Cleon]

Statistically it looks quite good,

If you have a quick glance yes. But if you stop for a few seconds and actually look at the stats they aren't that impressive. For example 27 shots is great but then look at the shot details. Only 10 on target and you had 10 long shots. That's a poor return for the amount of shots you had. This suggests to me a number of things. You either have players shooting because they have no other option but to shoot. Players have too high creative freedom. Too many players with long shots often or sometimes. No off the ball movement for player's to pass too. The tempo is too high. That is just from top of my head without watching the game. From your last screenshot it looks like around 17 of your shots were around 18 yards or longer. The screenshot also shows you only had like 2 shots 5-7 yards out. If you learn to use the ball better then that number will increase a lot.

You pass completion is good though I can't fault you on that. Which further pushes home the point that the shooting is due to lack of forward option in advanced position to pass to.

Your tackling ratio is also quite poor. What tackling settings do you use?

I wish I had the time to watch the PKM and offer you more advice but I'm short of time atm but hopefully later tonight if I get the chance I will gladly take a look for you

[telV7]

If you have a quick glance yes. But if you stop for a few seconds and actually look at the stats they aren't that impressive. For example 27 shots is great but then look at the shot details. Only 10 on target and you had 10 long shots. That's a poor return for the amount of shots you had. This suggests to me a number of things. You either have players shooting because they have no other option but to shoot. Players have too high creative freedom. Too many players with long shots often or sometimes. No off the ball movement for player's to pass too. The tempo is too high. That is just from top of my head without watching the game. From your last screenshot it looks like around 17 of your shots were around 18 yards or longer. The screenshot also shows you only had like 2 shots 5-7 yards out. If you learn to use the ball better then that number will increase a lot.

Your pass completion is good though I can't fault you on that. Which further pushes home the point that the shooting is due to lack of forward option in advanced position to pass to

I won't be the one to disagree with you. Part of my reason for saying overall its not too bad, is the long shots started creeping in later in the game, my thinking it was because the players were getting tired. However, it is very likely that it was due to frustration combined with the reasons you have mentioned.

At 76 mins the stats were , SH: 15, SOH: 6, OFF T: 3, BLOCKED: 6, LSHTS:4, which I thought was ok. In comparison to previous matches, my SOH were not as good, so, I felt at least it was an improvement.

Also Koppol has offered a great deal of advice, and rather than just copy his settings straight into a tactic, I tried to find something comparable within the TC that I felt would work in a similar manner, (Koppel uses classic tactics) based on the advice he had given. So I was still trying to do something that was in part my own doing.

Passing, yes, was quite good and I am pleased with that outcome, overall I think I am still a little to wide maybe,

I think it is still a good base to build upon though, and it is fun trying to come to grips with, as this is the first time I have really tried to make a concerted effort to understand the intricacies.

tackling ratio is also quite poor. What tackling settings do you use?

Tackling for this was default, which I assume means whatever the individual players settings are. For some reason tackling started to decline in the second half, at H/T it was at 70%. It started to decline straight away by the looks of things

I wish I had the time to watch the PKM and offer you more advice but I'm short of time atm but hopefully later tonight if I get the chance I will gladly take a look for you

Thanks, I appreciate that. From my own perspective I would like to know what I am not seeing, then I know what to look for if you take my meaning. To put it simply unless it was pointed out to me I would not be able to tell if a defender was closing my player down and forcing him to rush his shots.

With what Koppol has provided, your explanation of player attribute thread(currently reading), Sfrasers various threads, I am developing a better understanding of players and attributes. But I also understand it is just the tip of the iceberg

thanks again.

[Arianyr]

Thing is, PPMs aren't moves that the player will blindly repeat again and again and again (well, not usually).

If a player is intelligent enough he'll know when to use his PPMs and when not to use them. In fact, some people prefer not to touch PPMs so that their players will have the freedom of choice without bias to a certain option. I think PPMs just place a preferance to a certain option.

[Koppol]

Just quickly on ‘tweaking’, I am personally quite apprehensive about doing so. I have placed a high degree of importance on shouts, oi, and Assistant feedback, and, then inhibiting those aspects due to tweaking. Possibly a little ridiculous on my part.

Hey mate, just dropping in to say I'll take a look at your pkm when I get a chance during the week; basically letting you know I'm still around

On the above, I would say it is a very good idea for you to stick with the TC for now, especially while you sift through the vast, and excellent, array of material compiled on these forums. As I said earlier I do use classic tactics; this is because I feel my understanding of the game is at a suitable depth that I can create 'roles' within individualized tactics and switch between them in a game based on my overall strategy. For example, I have a basic home tactic, high width and tempo, that employ's Van Persie as a deep, creative forward. However, in the last fifteen minutes of the game I very often sub off the injury prone RVP, stick on Walcott and switch to a tailored made tactic which is aimed at exploiting his pace to get behind fatigued defenders. He operates at a higher mentality, more disciplined creative freedom and player instructions i.e. Rarely apart from Runs from Deep and Runs with Ball. All the player's behind him are set to try through balls Often. In other words it's a team tactic tailored for Walcott's explosive pace. I have a number of these tactics which vary on individual roles, or overall team width, tempo etc. Having an understanding of how the game is panning out I'll switch between them in a game to neutralise or exploit the opponent. Think of it like using shouts, but in an anally retentive complete control way.

The only reason I don't like TC and set up my tactics this way is that I feel TC does it for you, which is great at first, or for setting up a basic team strategy, but for me to feel like I'm in control I prefer to do it all myself. Anyway, point being, whilst you're learning stick with TC! It'll help you on the way; after all that's what it's there for.

Don't be afraid to tweak though, especially the individualised player instructions. I know that SFraser likes to set his team up in a way that mentality, creative freedom etc. is subject to the shouts, but individual player instructions are locked i.e. Through Balls, Runs from Deep etc. That way the player's follow their roles strictly e.g. Alex Song shouldn't be shooting from distance regardless of whether the tactic is set up as defensively or offensively, wide or narrow; does that make sense?

If you look at the thread Creativity and Flair (I'll link in an edit) by SFraser you'll see this in action. Possibly one of my favorite threads on this forum. Helped greatly into my first foray into Total Football tactics.

http://community.sigames.com/showthread.php/220742-Creativity-and-Flair. There's the link, have a quick at how he sets his individual player instructions to see what I'm prattling on about.

Now onto your stats from first viewing: what Cleon has said is entirely right; it seems like your players are passing and keeping the ball quite well, however, there is a lack of penetrating runs, or possibly some poor decisions to shoot being made in the offensive third. I will need to look at the pkm to confirm this. That being said it's the first game under new tactics, if I were you I'd play a fair few more, wait till the tactic is set to fluid and then see if off the ball movement improves. In the meantime identify where the shots are coming from: are they from the ST isolated from midfield support, or a midfielder taking a shot because off the ball movement ahead of him is poor or he's decided to shoot despite better options. If the latter a quick fix is to reduce his long shots to rarely, perhaps Through Balls to Often. This can result in less shots per game, but a greater amount of CCC's being created/shots inside the box.

Anyhow, like Cleon I will have a look at the pkm soon, have a test at Uni on Friday so balancing my time carefully atm. Feel free to keep posting in the meantime.

[telV7]

No problems Koppol, a little late but hope your exam went well.

[Morphiushell]

Is there a list anywhere that shows PPM's and with what players/positions they are best used with.

What I have been doing is for example with my wingers looking at the best wingers in the world and trying to copy their ppm's with my young and upcoming wingers

[pigfacemonkeyman]

Is there a list anywhere that shows PPM's and with what players/positions they are best used with.

What I have been doing is for example with my wingers looking at the best wingers in the world and trying to copy their ppm's with my young and upcoming wingers

Thanks to Mike:

Mike's Guide to Player PPMs

What are Player Preferred Moves?

Player preferred moves are traits, or styles, that a certain player can exhibit.

Whether its the ability to dictate tempo, or place shots in the corner, these

traits play a role in making (or breaking) a player

Are they good or bad?

They are neither, PPMs are largely subjective, depending on what you want from

the player and what role he is playing, we will look at this more in detail

List of Player Preferred Moves

Dives into tackles: will look to go to ground more in the tackle, good for

aggressive sides, however poor decision making can leave you exposed, or result

in a booking or sending off.

Does not dive in to tackles: will look to stay on his feet when winning the

ball, may not always make a strong challenge when its needed.

Marks opponent tightly: Will look to stick tightly to his designated man,

particularly if playing a man marking game.

Stays back at all times: The player will always hold his defensive position, and

not seek to break into space

Gets forward whenever possible: Will look to get forward and break into

attacking space

Comes deep to get ball: will drop off to create that little bit of space for

himself and link with deeper players, particularly good for passing defensive

midfielders and central midfielders, as it gives extra space to find the pass,

and strikers as they drop away from their marker forcing him to hold position

and possibly allow a shooting opportunity, or follow him and be dragged out of

positions.

Plays no through balls: The player will not look to split side with passes

through the middle.

Tries killer balls often: Probably the second most important PPM for any

playmaker, requires good decision making, passing, flair and creativity, the

player will look to make defence splitting passes.

Dictates Tempo: The Playmaker's PPM. This player will look to be you Maestro and

control the game. A must for

any Xavi/Scholes wannabes

Plays One-Twos: Will look to incite pass and move plays

Looks for pass rather than attempting to score: very good for creative players

who have poor finishing/long shots (Anderson), as they’ll look to play in

teammates, will generate a lot of assists.

Dwells on ball: He will look slow the game down a little give himself extra time

to pick out the pass

Stops play: Good for very low tempo possession based football, will look to take

the sting out of the game, however, it can kill a flowing move. If you are

looking to play quick football, particularly counter-attacking football, make

sure your player unlearns this.

Plays short simple passes: Will make short passes to nearby team mates, but

generally less keen on long raking passes. Generates a high pass completion rate

Tries long range passes: The player will look to play long raking passes across

the pitch.

Switches ball to other flank: Like to change the direction of attack with long

lateral passes

Runs rarely with ball: The play will not look to bring the ball past players,

will look to pass more often.

Runs with ball often: looks to dribble at any opportunity.

Runs with ball down left: The player will favour dribbling and attacking players

down the left hand side

Runs with ball down right:The player will favour dribbling and attacking players

down the right hand side

Runs with ball through centre: will look to run at the heart of the opposition

defence. Great for quick skilful strikers and attacking midfielders and central

midfielders, giving them the ability to beat often beat two or three players

before shooting.

Hugs line: The player will stick to the byline will look to burst down the line

before looking for the cross

Cuts inside: Important for Inside Forwards and good for wingers with strong

opposite feet (i.e. strong right foot for left sided players and vice versa),

will look to drive in at goal from their flank.

Moves into channels: will look to move into lateral space as much as possible,

either between the centre backs, or between fullbacks and centre backs.

Shoots from distance: will shoot from all areas of the pitch

Shoots with power: Goes for power over precision. Once hit, the ball stays hit

and if it’s on target will more often than not beat the keeper

Places shots: top PPM for technical strikers with good composure, they will

convert a very high percentage of their chances.

Likes to lob keeper: Good PPM for quick technical strikers getting through on

one on ones.

Likes to round keeper: Another good PPM for strikers, requires less technique

and flair than Lob Keeper

Likes to try to beat offside trap: Plays right on the edge of defence. very good

for quick poachers and number 9s, with good off the ball and anticipation, not

useful if you don’t play many through balls

Plays with back to goal: Ideal for strong target men, but also useful strong

complete forwards, and strong lone strikers (players like Drogba, Dzeko, Zigic

etc.)

Tries first time shots: Takes the shot at first opportunity, and can often catch

out the option defence and keeper.

Possess long flat throw: Rory Delap. Nuff said

Hits free kicks with power: Will attempt to score a screamer of a free kick,

poorer players will often hit this into the wall, free kick wizards getting the

round the wall will see this end up in the back of the net, works better at

longer ranges

Tries long range free kicks: Looks score from almost any position. If you have a

set piece wizard (Van der Vaart) this player will make opposition think twice

about conceding free kicks, but poorer players will often take wasteful shot,

when a cross from the free kick is a better option.

Tries to play out of trouble: will look to dribble his way out being closely

marked, or closed down. Very good for quick dribblers, who’ll often leave their

markers standing, however poor decision making can mean they will dribble when

the pass is a better option, and potentially get caught in possession

Avoids weaker foot: will avoid trying to pass and control off his weaker side

The following PPMs cannot be taught:

Arrives late in opposition area: these players have a very good timing when

going forward, arriving at the last moment in attack, very good for players with

good long shots coming from deeper positions (think Frank Lampard)

.

Gets into opposition area: An even more offensive PPM than Gets forward

whenever possible.

Argues with officials: will tend to pick up more bookings than other players,

however these players also seem to high aggression and determination, and will

more often than not be fired up in big games and when behind

Curls ball: Great for long range shots, as they look to bend the ball round the

keeper.

Some Good Combinations for Roles:

Centreback:

Dives into tackles: will look to go to ground more in the tackle, good for

aggressive sides, however poor decision making can leave you exposed, or result

in a booking or sending off. (Stopper defender)

Does not dive in to tackles: will look to stay on his feet when winning the

ball, may not always make a strong challenge when its needed. (Cover Defender)

Marks opponent tightly: Will look to stick tightly to his designated man,

particularly if playing a man marking game.

Ball playing defender:

Gets forward whenever possible: Will look to get forward and break into

attacking space

Attacking fullback:

Hugs line: The player will stick to the byline will look to burst down the line

before looking for the cross

Runs with ball down left: The player will favour dribbling and attacking

players down the left hand side

Runs with ball down right:The player will favour dribbling and attacking

players down the right hand side

Ball winning player/Anchorman:

Marks opponent tightly: Will look to stick tightly to his designated man,

particularly if playing a man marking game.

Plays short simple passes: Will make short passes to nearby team mates, but

generally less keen on long raking passes. Generates a high pass completion rate

Deep lying playmaker:

Tries long range passes: The player will look to play long raking passes across

the pitch.

Switches ball to other flank: Like to change the direction of attack with long

lateral passes

Tries killer balls often: Probably the second most important PPM for any

playmaker, requires good decision making, passing, flair and creativity, the

player will look to make defence splitting passes.

Dictates Tempo: The Playmaker's PPM. This player will look to be you Maestro

and control the game. A must for

any Xavi/Scholes wannabes

Comes deep to get ball: will drop off to create that little bit of space for

himself and link with deeper players, particularly good for passing defensive

midfielders and central midfielders, as it gives extra space to find the pass,

and strikers as they drop away from their marker forcing him to hold position

and possibly allow a shooting opportunity, or follow him and be dragged out of

positions.

Advanced playmaker:

Tries killer balls often: Probably the second most important PPM for any

playmaker, requires good decision making, passing, flair and creativity, the

player will look to make defence splitting passes.

Dictates Tempo: The Playmaker's PPM. This player will look to be you Maestro

and control the game. A must for

any Xavi/Scholes wannabes

Plays One-Twos: Will look to incite pass and move plays

Runs with ball through centre: will look to run at the heart of the opposition

defence. Great for quick skilful strikers and attacking midfielders and central

midfielders, giving them the ability to beat often beat two or three players

before shooting.

Goal scoring Mid:

Gets forward whenever possible: Will look to get forward and break into

attacking space

Shoots with power: Goes for power over precision. Once hit, the ball stays hit

and if it’s on target will more often than not beat the keeper

Shoots from distance: will shoot from all areas of the pitch

Flying Winger:

Hugs line: The player will stick to the byline will look to burst down the line

before looking for the cross

Runs with ball often: looks to dribble at any opportunity.

Runs with ball down left: The player will favour dribbling and attacking players

down the left hand side

Runs with ball down right:The player will favour dribbling and attacking

players down the right hand side

Inside Forward:

Cuts inside: Important for Inside Forwards and good for wingers with strong

opposite feet (i.e. strong right foot for left sided players and vice versa),

will look to drive in at goal from their flank.

Moves into channels: will look to move into lateral space as much as possible,

either between the centre backs, or between fullbacks and centre backs.

Trequartista:

Cuts inside: Important for Inside Forwards and good for wingers with strong

opposite feet (i.e. strong right foot for left sided players and vice versa),

will look to drive in at goal from their flank.

Moves into channels: will look to move into lateral space as much as possible,

either between the centre backs, or between fullbacks and centre backs.

Tries killer balls often: Probably the second most important PPM for any

playmaker, requires good decision making, passing, flair and creativity, the

player will look to make defence splitting passes.

Comes deep to get ball: will drop off to create that little bit of space for

himself and link with deeper players, particularly good for passing defensive

midfielders and central midfielders, as it gives extra space to find the pass,

and strikers as they drop away from their marker forcing him to hold position

and possibly allow a shooting opportunity, or follow him and be dragged out of

positions.

Targetman:

Shoots with power: Goes for power over precision. Once hit, the ball stays hit

and if it’s on target will more often than not beat the keeper

Plays with back to goal: Ideal for strong target men, but also useful strong

complete forwards, and strong lone strikers (players like Drogba, Dzeko, Zigic

etc.)

Dwells on ball: He will look slow the game down a little give himself extra

time to pick out the pass

Poacher:

Likes to round keeper: Another good PPM for strikers, requires less technique

and flair than Lob Keeper

Likes to try to beat offside trap: Plays right on the edge of defence. very

good for quick poachers and number 9s, with good off the ball and anticipation,

not useful if you don’t play many through balls

(don't know how up to date this list is)

Sorry about the long post, I can't remember where I saw this so I couldn't link you.