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Genuine_quality

Last minute goals

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really starting to do my head in now, only ever scored when im defending a lead, tried everything from attacking to defending deep, its almost as if some idiot has encoded the probability of conceding to be greater in the last minute than at any other time in the game, it happens far to often to be anything else

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icon_rolleyes.gif

really starting to do my head in now, only ever scored when im defending a lead, tried everything from attacking to defending deep, its almost as if some idiot has encoded the probability of conceding to be greater in the last minute than at any other time in the game, it happens far to often to be anything else

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<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Genuine_quality:

icon_rolleyes.gif

really starting to do my head in now, only ever scored when im defending a lead, tried everything from attacking to defending deep, its almost as if some idiot has encoded the probability of conceding to be greater in the last minute than at any other time in the game, it happens far to often to be anything else </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

If you believe that then I'm afraid you're the idiot.

It's natural that a team chasing a game will go more and more attacking as the game wears on. If you, as manager don't take the right steps to counter this then the other team is likely to score. There are plenty of people that don't have this problem, which kind of goes against your argument that it's coded into the game.

Try reading some threads in the tactics forum for more ideas on how to avoid this.

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yes, but the probability of me scoring would be greater than of the opposition, i never score because the counter attacking on the game is useless

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<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Genuine_quality:

yes, but the probability of me scoring would be greater than of the opposition, i never score because the counter attacking on the game is useless </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I disagree. I use a fairly balanced tactic, and have a counter attacking version which I use in away games and I find it deadly when the opposition starts to go more attacking.

It can be done and the fact that you can't do it has nothing to do with the game. It just means that you don't know how to do it yet. Stick with and you'll get there.

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why would you need to suddenly alter tactics that work perfectly for 85 minutes, is a fallicy that you have to drasticly alter the style of play in the last 5 minutes or you will almost certainly concede, its utter bollox, like in rl everyteam who is winning suddenly alters there tactics for the last 5 minutes

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<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Genuine_quality:

why would you need to suddenly alter tactics that work perfectly for 85 minutes, is a fallicy that you have to drasticly alter the style of play in the last 5 minutes or you will almost certainly concede, its utter bollox, like in rl everyteam who is winning suddenly alters there tactics for the last 5 minutes </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

That's my point, I rarely alter my tactics in the last 5 minutes of the game, and never alter them drastically. I (and many others) have set up tactics that don't require any drastic changes. I just use a slightly more defensive and counter attacking version of my normal tactic in away games and in the last stages of games where I feel the opposition is really putting me under pressure.

But if you believe that players and managers will never play any differently to hold onto a lead then you clearly know nothing about football. Their formation may not change, but there tactics will.

Just face it, it's nowt to do with the game, you're just not good enough at it. If you want help getting better at it then fine, but don't just start ranting on and blaming your failings on the game.

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you should go for ultra defensive time wasting tactic in such situations icon_rolleyes.gif that's so stupid. I mean does SAF has to tell his players to do smth like that? of course not, players know exactly what to do. now you have to have 23 different tactics for every situation....the game just lacks inteigence!!

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thats the point, if i do play counter, all i seem to do is miss countless easy one-on-ones and still concede last minute goals

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The next issue of The Bootroom fanzine has an in depth article of how to close the game out in the final 10 mins.

Its out next week, if you can wait that long?

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<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Mitja:

you should go for ultra defensive time wasting tactic in such situations icon_rolleyes.gif that's so stupid. I mean does SAF has to tell his players to do smth like that? of course not, players know exactly what to do. now you have to have 23 different tactics for every situation....the game just lacks inteigence!! </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

No you shouldn't. By going ultra defensive you're inviting pressure onto your team. You should look to get more players behind the ball, slow the game down, keep possession and time-waste while attempting counter attacks.

You say the players should no how to do this themselves but then what would be the point of a football manager game. Remember, this is a game. If you didn't have to actually do any managing then there wouldn't be a lot of point to it.

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<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by chopper99:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Mitja:

you should go for ultra defensive time wasting tactic in such situations icon_rolleyes.gif that's so stupid. I mean does SAF has to tell his players to do smth like that? of course not, players know exactly what to do. now you have to have 23 different tactics for every situation....the game just lacks inteigence!! </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

No you shouldn't. By going ultra defensive you're inviting pressure onto your team. You should look to get more players behind the ball, slow the game down, keep possession and time-waste while attempting counter attacks.

You say the players should no how to do this themselves but then what would be the point of a football manager game. Remember, this is a game. If you didn't have to actually do any managing then there wouldn't be a lot of point to it. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

bla bla bla

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<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Mitja:

the game just lacks inteigence!! </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Am I the only one that laughed at that?

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<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Genuine_quality:

ahem chopper, you cant play counter attack by slowing the game down now can you, its paradoxical </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yep, it works pretty well actually. The fact that you're using the 'Counter Attack' option means that when the players have a chance they'll look to get the ball forward and attack quickly. That doesn't mean you constantly have to play defensive, direct, fast football. If that was the case what would be the point of having a counter attack option that you could tick?

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<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Mitja:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by chopper99:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Mitja:

you should go for ultra defensive time wasting tactic in such situations icon_rolleyes.gif that's so stupid. I mean does SAF has to tell his players to do smth like that? of course not, players know exactly what to do. now you have to have 23 different tactics for every situation....the game just lacks inteigence!! </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

No you shouldn't. By going ultra defensive you're inviting pressure onto your team. You should look to get more players behind the ball, slow the game down, keep possession and time-waste while attempting counter attacks.

You say the players should no how to do this themselves but then what would be the point of a football manager game. Remember, this is a game. If you didn't have to actually do any managing then there wouldn't be a lot of point to it. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

bla bla bla </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

What a brilliant comeback. You win icon_rolleyes.gif

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<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Haestad:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Mitja:

the game just lacks inteigence!! </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Am I the only one that laughed at that? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I don't think so. I think anyone who has some football experience should. I know this is only agame, but it was a good one, now I have feelig that only kids could play it. sa many so anoying things..

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<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by chopper99:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Mitja:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by chopper99:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Mitja:

you should go for ultra defensive time wasting tactic in such situations icon_rolleyes.gif that's so stupid. I mean does SAF has to tell his players to do smth like that? of course not, players know exactly what to do. now you have to have 23 different tactics for every situation....the game just lacks inteigence!! </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

No you shouldn't. By going ultra defensive you're inviting pressure onto your team. You should look to get more players behind the ball, slow the game down, keep possession and time-waste while attempting counter attacks.

You say the players should no how to do this themselves but then what would be the point of a football manager game. Remember, this is a game. If you didn't have to actually do any managing then there wouldn't be a lot of point to it. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

bla bla bla </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

What a brilliant comeback. You win icon_rolleyes.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

no chopper I don't win and I don't want to. but just tell me smth, are getting paid for your defending of this game. do you think game is of good quality?

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I feel your pain. There seems to be nothing you can do. If the computer wants you to conceed then you will.

Even if you change your tactics to ultra defensive, players behind the ball, time wasting set to often and have counter attacking you've got more chance of winning the lottery in a plane crash than holding onto your lead. The chances of counter attacking and scoring yourself are even less!

Then the match will go to extra time, then penalties and despite having players with 20 composure and 20 penalty taking you will lose the shootout. It is FM law!

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Genuine_quality:

icon_rolleyes.gif

really starting to do my head in now, only ever scored when im defending a lead, tried everything from attacking to defending deep, its almost as if some idiot has encoded the probability of conceding to be greater in the last minute than at any other time in the game, it happens far to often to be anything else </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

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<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Mitja:

no chopper I don't win and I don't want to. but just tell me smth, are getting paid for your defending of this game. do you think game is of good quality? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I make plenty of post criticising problem areas of the game and offering constructive ideas on how they can be improved (as you do yourself I might add). I know there are problems with the game but teams going more attacking at the end of a game is nothing other than what happens in real life.

I'll happily highlight genuine problems with the game but what's happening here is that the opening poster can't get his tactics right so is automatically blaming the game rather than himself.

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<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by olrion:

I feel your pain. There seems to be nothing you can do. If the computer wants you to conceed then you will.

Even if you change your tactics to ultra defensive, players behind the ball, time wasting set to often and have counter attacking you've got more chance of winning the lottery in a plane crash than holding onto your lead. The chances of counter attacking and scoring yourself are even less!

Then the match will go to extra time, then penalties and despite having players with 20 composure and 20 penalty taking you will lose the shootout. It is FM law!

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Genuine_quality:

icon_rolleyes.gif

really starting to do my head in now, only ever scored when im defending a lead, tried everything from attacking to defending deep, its almost as if some idiot has encoded the probability of conceding to be greater in the last minute than at any other time in the game, it happens far to often to be anything else </div></BLOCKQUOTE> </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

not to metion you will probably get goal from corner in 94th minute (by someone who's that goal is 1st in his career for the club) of what should be 3 min extra time. and you won't be able to score from corner whole season icon_wink.gif

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<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by chopper99:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Mitja:

no chopper I don't win and I don't want to. but just tell me smth, are getting paid for your defending of this game. do you think game is of good quality? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I make plenty of post criticising problem areas of the game and offering constructive ideas on how they can be improved (as you do yourself I might add). I know there are problems with the game but teams going more attacking at the end of a game is nothing other than what happens in real life.

I'll happily highlight genuine problems with the game but what's happening here is that the opening poster can't get his tactics right so is automatically blaming the game rather than himself. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

of course he is, the game is a joke

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Yeah that is so frustrating, another of the FM laws when you do conceed a goal in the last minute (which is fairly often for me) it is always a 90 year old player who has scored his first goal for the club!

I think I could count the goals I have scored in the injury time from Champ 2 right up to FM2008 on one hand! It is just not meant to be!

Just kidding, I am just bitter because I am not as good at the latest versions of the game as I have been throughout the series! It is frustrating as you can imagine!

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Mitja:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by olrion:

I feel your pain. There seems to be nothing you can do. If the computer wants you to conceed then you will.

Even if you change your tactics to ultra defensive, players behind the ball, time wasting set to often and have counter attacking you've got more chance of winning the lottery in a plane crash than holding onto your lead. The chances of counter attacking and scoring yourself are even less!

Then the match will go to extra time, then penalties and despite having players with 20 composure and 20 penalty taking you will lose the shootout. It is FM law!

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Genuine_quality:

icon_rolleyes.gif

really starting to do my head in now, only ever scored when im defending a lead, tried everything from attacking to defending deep, its almost as if some idiot has encoded the probability of conceding to be greater in the last minute than at any other time in the game, it happens far to often to be anything else </div></BLOCKQUOTE> </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

not to metion you will probably get goal from corner in 94th minute (by someone who's that goal is 1st in his career for the club) of what should be 3 min extra time. and you won't be able to score from corner whole season icon_wink.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

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if i'm up by 1 goal in the 80th minute, i play a 4-4-0-1 (the second 4 are WBL, WBR, DMC, DMC.

also taking an attacking player off for a natural dmc. and setting his instructions to extremely defensive, means that i haven't conceded many late equalizers in fm08.

it also helps if the whole team does some sort of defensive training.

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I have my players train intensive on attacking, defence and shooting and I still manage to miss all my scoring opportunities and my defending is of the Titus Bramble variety!

Does training really count towards anything? Lets be serious here!

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I don't see this as being as much a problem as it was in FM07, when the worst thing you could do was take a two-goal lead in an away match. But it is still a problem.

Typically, the AI team ramps up the offensive pressure when trailing by a goal or two late in the match by going to a 4-2-4 or 2-3-5. IRL, this creates offensive pressure but also creates significant defensive risk. The match engine replicates the offensive pressure but not the defensive risk. As a result, the only successful tactic over time is to play ultra-defensively in these situations. But IRL, a counter-attacking tactic, particularly one that exploited the space on the wings in the midfield (vs. 4-2-4) or at the back (vs. 2-3-5), would often punish a team for its gamble (otherwise, these would be commonly used formations). Unfortunately, this is not reflected in the current match engine.

It's one of the things I'd really like to see SI address in FM09.

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I used to have that problem - started a thread about it in fact. Have resolved the issue now with a a tactic called "Close up Shop". Will post screenies when I get home (if I remember), but essentially it's a 4-1-4-1.

Ultra defensive.

Short passing.

Slow tempo.

Deep defensive line.

Striker runs with and holds up the ball (pref a strong, good dribbler).

99% effective for me, even against the bigger teams. Even scored a couple like this too, making a 1-0 a 2-0 as the other team throws everyone forward.

Worked for me as Leeds against Man U, Chelsea, Inter Milan, Shalke, and various smaller teams who've proven hard to break down.

Also works when you're a man down, but play without a striker - set an arrow from one of your central midfielders to the ST position.

I should probably put this in the Tactics forum too. See how that goes.

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ive got to agree with some of the posts, counter attacking in the last 10 in by in large totally hopeless as even if you do get through your strikers just simply miss there one on ones, all of the time, without exception

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When the AI goes all 4-2-4 near the end of the close game I used to go 5-4-1 to counter it and I had a little success but still let a fair few in. So I thought about it and it was down to the fact that going 5-4-1 and Ultra Defence invited them on and while I was winning the Midfield battle with my 4 V 2, i was still just aksing for bother.

Now the only thing I change is that when he goes 4 up front I go three and match the Midfield with like for like.

So AI is 4-2-4 and i'm 5-2-3 this means that the AI also has to worry about me going for it.

Have seen this still let the odd late goal in which is fair enough but it has also seen me see out games and even from time to time score a couple more to see out the game in style.

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doesn't happen any more than normal for me. and i get my share of late gaosl too.

2-1 down to manutd. 85 minutes, my super sub barbosa coming on 10 minutes prior, whips a superb corner in and its 2=2.

4 mins into extra time barbosa running down the left wing, another wicked cross and it's 3-2.

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I rarely concede late goals, and certainly no more then I score.

When I need to hold a lead, I rarely, if ever change my mentallity, as I usually play a more cautious style anyway so I don't feel the need to. What I do though is stop my players making so many forward runs. I also set my back four to tight man marking in order to make the job of the forwards a little bit harder. If I'm playing a 4-5-1, I will often put a barrow. on the DM to the DC position. I never put the defensive line deeper then the highest deep setting as I feel thats just asking for trouble.

When it comes to passing, I prefer to see how the opposition is playing rather then just instantly adopting a slow, short passing game. If they are struggling to get the ball of my team, then it's fine, but if they are successfully closing my players down and intercepting passes, then this is the last thing I want. In this situation, I will get my players to hoof the ball forward. It's better the opposition win the ball in their half then it is yours.

It's unrealistic to expect your players to defend if your instructions are to attack. It's human natue for players to try to do what they do best, so attacking players are naturally more likely to stay forward unless told otherwise. Thats the whole point of being managers. They're there to tell their players what to do.

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