bigdanio Posted February 21, 2011 Share Posted February 21, 2011 Wilshere has to be improved. I moaned about his lack of potential earlier in the thread. After uninspiring careers in previous saves at the likes of Stoke and Fenerbache, he is on my current save an Espanyol player. He never plays in the CL and is not even a key player for them. It is 2015. Jordan Henderson and Jack Rodwell never seem to make it big either, whereas I think they will both be at top 4 clubs in a few years. On FM they seem to stay at Everton and Sunderland. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
x42bn6 Posted February 21, 2011 Share Posted February 21, 2011 Wilshere has to be improved.I moaned about his lack of potential earlier in the thread. After uninspiring careers in previous saves at the likes of Stoke and Fenerbache, he is on my current save an Espanyol player. He never plays in the CL and is not even a key player for them. It is 2015. Jordan Henderson and Jack Rodwell never seem to make it big either, whereas I think they will both be at top 4 clubs in a few years. On FM they seem to stay at Everton and Sunderland. I would not be surprised if Henderson and Rodwell remain at mid-table clubs for the rest of their career. They're promising, but this does not mean they will make the step up to top clubs. Shaun Wright-Phillips and David Bentley are examples of players in this category in the past. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
milnerpoint Posted February 21, 2011 Share Posted February 21, 2011 people really need to calm down, the kid has had a good 6 months at Arsenal, lets not forget he was minutes away from joining bolton on loan again this season, there is no way he should be ranked amonst the likes of Xavi, Iniesta or any of the top midfielders yet, if he carries on like this for the next season or so then fair enough, but right now i would say he is ranked about right, look after him properly and he will become a very very good player, if you dont he will disappear into the likes of Stoke, i would say thats more than fair at the moment. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJJOEYT Posted February 21, 2011 Share Posted February 21, 2011 David Vaughn & Charlie Adam should be improved! And Gary Taylor-Fletcher and Brett Ormerod decreased.. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SiN8 Posted February 21, 2011 Share Posted February 21, 2011 It's still not an excuse to give players -10s to "balance" things out. Hardly an excuse to make sure every generation has a couple of top potential players. The 20 to 23 group have 6 midfielders that have the 180+ PA. Yet, you don't think any of the current 16 to 19 year olds have that potential? I don't have the game, but then if so, Parker is still single-handedly trying to claw West Ham away from relegation, and that sort of range is still very accomplished company for Wilshere. Let's not forget that he is nowhere near the finished article yet and he has many years to develop. Wilshere's potential is Scott Parker? C'mon, you're just being silly now. What did Zidane and Xavi do when they were 19 that was so different from Wilshere's current path? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
x42bn6 Posted February 21, 2011 Share Posted February 21, 2011 Hardly an excuse to make sure every generation has a couple of top potential players. The 20 to 23 group have 6 midfielders that have the 180+ PA. Yet, you don't think any of the current 16 to 19 year olds have that potential? Not really. I can't really think of any new Zidanes. Wilshere's potential is Scott Parker? C'mon, you're just being silly now. What did Zidane and Xavi do when they were 19 that was so different from Wilshere's current path? Both were relative late-bloomers. Agüero's career path is possibly more relevant - a brilliant player at 18-19 in La Liga, miles beyond what Wilshere has achieved right now. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SiN8 Posted February 21, 2011 Share Posted February 21, 2011 Not really. I can't really think of any new Zidanes. Doesn't have to be Zidane. Lampard and Essien are also in this exclusive 180 CA club. You don't think anyone could come to their level? Both were relative late-bloomers. So if you were the researcher, Xavi and Zidane would both be rated poorly when they were 19? Doesn't that argue for more liberal use of -10 PA? Otherwise, it's stunting the entire 16 to 19 year group. Agüero's career path is possibly more relevant - a brilliant player at 18-19 in La Liga, miles beyond what Wilshere has achieved right now. In Aguero's season in which he started when he was 18, he played 40 games for Athletico with 6 goals and 3 assists. How is that miles beyond Wilshere's current season which also began when he was 18? Wilshere's played 35 games with 2 goals and 8 assists. Considering that Wilshere plays as a holding midfielder, I'd say he's having the same type of season when Aguero was 18. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gdawg69 Posted February 21, 2011 Share Posted February 21, 2011 if you can't reduce player's stats on behalf of their last season's form, then there should be a form button to reduce. if a player has not played good the last 6 moths, it is stupid that in game he is performing world class then. if he then were to recover his world class form in real life, then improve him on fm. fm gets updated twice a year, which is a good reason to take action on recent form. the whole point of fm is to reflect the players performance in real life, and when rooney hardly scores for man utd but keep scoring like a monster in fm, then to me it is not realistic and it is easy to do something about it when fm is being updated so often. What a ridiculous post, especially the bold writing. No, the whole point of the game is to strike a balance of realism/fun into a football management game. If FM were to mirror every players form exactly as in real life - then what would be the point in even playing the game?? everyone would play the same. The reason FM differs from real life is because no two real life managers play the same, its like a butterfly effect, every change we make, can alter something else in the game. It is incredibly naive to think that the players in game should play exactly as the players in real life - there are a million differing varients that will not - and should not - allow this to happen. I mean, rooney for example had some personaly problem with his GF before and probably after the world cup, players have lives aswell, it is incredibly hard, and unrealistic, to mirror this in game because it could happen at any time, and there is no feature in the game for incredible details like that. The researchers do the best to mirror abilities - the rest is up to us or the AI in game. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Suggy33 Posted February 21, 2011 Share Posted February 21, 2011 I can't beleive what I'm reading here. OK, everyone is allowed to have their own opinions etc, but this is just absurd. Jack Wilshere is a key player for one of the Premier Leagues/Europes top teams. He has barged past players like Denilson and Diaby, the latter whose PA is extremely high, and become a solid figure of the team. He plays week in, week out, and at only 19 is only going to get better, anyone can see that. Without him in the team, in recent games, Arsenals midfield seem a bit lost. He's the creative flair we need, but does so much more than that, winning the ball in defence and carrying it forward. You're saying he won't reach the same level as Xavi, but I think it's clear to see that he will get very close, if not surpass that level. A regular starting player for a mid-table player is what, 135-145 CA? For a top team, it's around 150-160 yes? So whats to say, at only 19 years old, if theoretically he is rated at 150 CA, he won't reach a level of 180 CA? As I said though, everyone to their own, I'm not looking for an argument or a heated discussion, just throwing my opinion in the hat. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
milnerpoint Posted February 21, 2011 Share Posted February 21, 2011 You're saying he won't reach the same level as Xavi, but I think it's clear to see that he will get very close, if not surpass that level. A regular starting player for a mid-table player is what, 135-145 CA? For a top team, it's around 150-160 yes? So whats to say, at only 19 years old, if theoretically he is rated at 150 CA, he won't reach a level of 180 CA? As I said though, everyone to their own, I'm not looking for an argument or a heated discussion, just throwing my opinion in the hat. nothing is clear in the future, and i would say your being very generous to say he will even come close to being as good as Xavi, very very few players will ever reach that level in their careers. He is a very good young player but at the moment nothing more, he hasnt achieved anything yet compared to the likes of Xavi, Scholes, Iniesta he is not even close to being the influencial players they are. Lets not forget, 3 years ago everyone knew Walcott was going to be the next big thing in football, before that Bently, there was also SWP who everyone knew would be the best right winger in the world, the list goes on and on of players who we "knew" would be amazing yet they never reached that level. To say he is even close to deserving the same rating as Xavi, Messi, CR7 is just crazy and typical of the english media hype that surrounds your young players. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jmohan Posted February 21, 2011 Share Posted February 21, 2011 Upgrade: Szczesny (Seriously looks the real deal for Arsenal, but will never be a first team keeper on FM) Charlie Adam (Stuck at Blackpool in the Championship on my current save, when a top 4 teams in Tottenham made bids in January IRL) Jack Wilshere (Best midfield prospect in the world in my opinion, and move to CM rather than ACM) Martin Kelly (Really like the look of him, even under Hodgson!) Downgrade: Vela (Bangs them in for me on FM, when he doesn't ever look like making it at Arsenal IRL) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
x42bn6 Posted February 21, 2011 Share Posted February 21, 2011 Doesn't have to be Zidane. Lampard and Essien are also in this exclusive 180 CA club. You don't think anyone could come to their level? You're only talking about the world's most physical midfielder in the world and a midfielder capable of getting you 20 goals per season. Very, very few midfielders would come close to them. England performances aside, Lampard is one of the world's best attacking midfielders and unlike most other midfielders his physical attributes are meaningless besides his stamina. Wilshere falling short of this level is not going to be terribly surprising. So if you were the researcher, Xavi and Zidane would both be rated poorly when they were 19? Doesn't that argue for more liberal use of -10 PA? Otherwise, it's stunting the entire 16 to 19 year group. Both were late-bloomers, so yes, they would have been rated poorly. Hence my discussion about dynamic PA. Does it argue for more liberal use of -10 PA? No it doesn't. Alexandre Pato FC - Ac Milan - Brazilian Anderson AMC - Manchester United - Brazilian Bojan ST - Barcelona - Spanish Carlos Vela AM/FC - Arsenal - Mexican Ever Banega DM - Boca Juniors - Argentinian Giovani Dos Santos AMLC - Barcelona - Mexican Henri Saivet AMRL/FC - Bordeaux - French Mamadou Sakho DLC - Paris Saint Germain - French Martin Galvan AMC - Cruz Azul - Mexican Sebastian Giovinco AMLC - Juventus - Italian Toni Kroos AMC - Bayern Munich - German The above players were -10 in 8.0.2. Suffice to say, probably only one of them made it to this level. More liberal use is meaningless - on average, a -9 would have been good for all the above players, revised to a -10 afterwards. In Aguero's season in which he started when he was 18, he played 40 games for Athletico with 6 goals and 3 assists. How is that miles beyond Wilshere's current season which also began when he was 18? Wilshere's played 35 games with 2 goals and 8 assists. Considering that Wilshere plays as a holding midfielder, I'd say he's having the same type of season when Aguero was 18. And what did he do at 17? 18 goals in 35 games for Independiente. And then after that? 27 goals. There is every chance Wilshere could turn out to be one of those overhyped youngsters who didn't deserve a -10. Since he is not guaranteed to be one of the world's best midfielders yet, he should have a -9. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SiN8 Posted February 21, 2011 Share Posted February 21, 2011 The above players were -10 in 8.0.2. Suffice to say, probably only one of them made it to this level. More liberal use is meaningless - on average, a -9 would have been good for all the above players, revised to a -10 afterwards. Being accurate here is not the point. Of course judging youth players will be very difficult. However, if you don't at least give it a shot, then the whole age group will have no superstars. Since FM2008, players like Bale, Pastore, Ozil and Di Maria have emerged as possible world class players. You'd be just as inaccurate by not giving out any -10 PAs. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
x42bn6 Posted February 21, 2011 Share Posted February 21, 2011 Being accurate here is not the point. Of course judging youth players will be very difficult. However, if you don't at least give it a shot, then the whole age group will have no superstars. Since FM2008, players like Bale, Pastore, Ozil and Di Maria have emerged as possible world class players. You'd be just as inaccurate by not giving out any -10 PAs. So two wrongs make a right, then? Given the past history with -10s, I don't blame them for not being assigned out like toffee. Given he is likely to reach his PA, he needs a really good reason to be a -10, because it guarantees he'll be as good as Xavi on average. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Koppol Posted February 27, 2011 Share Posted February 27, 2011 I think the major problem with the current potential system SI has in place is the wide range of PA value's that come out of a'negative' PA. Using Wilshere as an example, I would agree that he has not, as yet, done enough to be given a -10 (170-200) as the median value of 185 matches him to the same standard as Xavi in his prime. However, I would also argue that Wilshere is not deserving of a -9 as, whilst a 165 median PA value ( from 150-180) is slightly more reasonable, it is unfair to the lad who is demonstrating such exceptional talent at such a young age. A fixed PA is also ruled out, due to the players age. I think a new dynamic PA system would be better suited in FM to overcome the problems of young players like Wilshere, who could quite possibly turn out to be world beaters, but could just as easily become good team players for their clubs. I am highly dubious of any player under the age of 21 receiving a PA of -10, or fixed above 180 because so much can still go wrong --> injuries, competition with newly purchased and more experienced players, new managers not favoring the player. Personally, I'd like to see the future of PA go in one of two directions: 1) Fixed PA's but with a variable range. For instance, Wilshere is given a PA of 170 +/- 10. 2) Negative PA's brought into closer ranges --> -10 is 180-200, -9 is 160-180 I feel like Wilshere will as a footballer achieve a CA above 160 at some stage in his career, how far above that he goes is completely up to him. However, it is unfair to deny him the ability to become a player with the ability to play at the same level of Xavi, Sneijder and co. because he does inherently have that kind of potential given his age. I guess what I'm trying to say is that we seem to have forgotten what the word potential means. There may be many players who have the potential to be as good as say Xavi or Sneijder technically, but few will achieve it because their work effort and discipline is simply not good enough to ever attain those heights. Victor Vazquez was heralded as the player of his generation at La Masia, in the same age group as a certain Lionel Messi. Look at the difference between the two know. I think that sums up how erratic potential is and how difficult it is to simulate in a game. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
themoffster Posted February 27, 2011 Share Posted February 27, 2011 Nikica Jelavic - head and shoulders the best forward in the SPL. Adam Rooney at ICT as well - he's banging them in this season. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ReggaeBwoy Posted February 27, 2011 Share Posted February 27, 2011 Watford got some good youngsters who should be looked at. Thompson, Massey, and Assambalonga. Doubt people know them but two of them have already broken in the first team and Assambolonga is highly regarded by Watford irl but in the game he is absolute rubbish Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ReggaeBwoy Posted February 27, 2011 Share Posted February 27, 2011 Nikica Jelavic - head and shoulders the best forward in the SPL.Adam Rooney at ICT as well - he's banging them in this season. Are you Rangers supporter because surely Goodwillie is the best forward in the SPL Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
priest Posted February 27, 2011 Share Posted February 27, 2011 Jamie Ness and Nikica Jelavic. Especially Jelavic finishing. Craig Bryson of Kilmarnock too. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
davidb001 Posted February 27, 2011 Share Posted February 27, 2011 i hope they downgrade paul konchesky he has been cr@p at Liverpool ,not sure how he has been doing at Forest but id be quite happy for them to keep him full time Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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