Will There Ever Be A Football Manager NFL American Football?

[TheGulls]

Sorry, the wink was missed, and I ought not have wrote what I wrote anyway. My apologies back at you.

To the history of the sport, it started as a blend of Rugby and Association football in the mid 1800s. The balls originally were mostly round, so kicking was much more easily done. In the late 1800s, some of the more modern rules were adopted including changing the shape of the ball to make carrying it easier, but that of course made the kicking less useful.

SCIAG- the strategy is different of course, but my god it can be detailed like you wouldn't believe. In comparison, I believe a footie manager or head coach does far less actual "managing" over the course of the game. For example, playing high school football, we had a play book about as thick as War and Peace. Every player's role and instructions are dictated at a micro level, and most often, the coach reads the other team and sends in his plays based on the formations he sees, player positions, and other cues. The strategy is different in that because the plays have definite starts and stops you don't get the flow and shape like in footie. But there is a lot of the same things going on: "that cornerback looks weak, lets run at him," that sort of deal. The tempo in each play is pretty much the same, so it's style that gets managed- running up the middle vs. short passing game vs. wide runs vs. long passes etc.

At least that is my poor attempt at trying to make a comparison. I don't watch or play anymore, so this is old school 1980s stuff I am talking about, but I don't think it's changed at the core much in 25 years.

Seeing as History is my chosen career path (although not sport) it is nice to learn something new sometimes, so for that I thank you.

[Dr. Hook]

I think you mean NFL head coach?

I definitely would like to see an FM-style baseball management sim and am thirsty for one- I loved Baseball Mogul but after playing FM you can see how lacking it truly is, and I played MLB Front Office Manager which was a waste of money. I also would love to see EHM come back, as it was a decent game that had huge potential. I wouldn't play a basketball management game, either, but that is something that I don't think has been tried at all and could be very good.

Try Out of the Park baseball (OOTP)- they were with SI for a bit and are still going- I looked at a demo once and it was good stuff, very FM-like.

[Dr. Hook]

Seeing as History is my chosen career path (although not sport) it is nice to learn something new sometimes, so for that I thank you.

Awesome! I am a History professor in my spare time (I manage Bromley in League 2 as my full-time gig )

[alex.s]

I think you'll find most American football fans would disagree 100%. The sport is far more tactical than football, I'd say player ability is more important in football than it is in American Football, where coaching/play calls dictate the winner.

I would tend to agree with this. Certainly a major aspect of the game is the tactical battle going on between opposition coaches, I just cant understand why a really good american football management game hasnt been made before. The sport itself just seems ideal for one. Certainly the level of detail and depth you could go into could be just as good/ if not better then what is possible for football.

[Dr. Hook]

I would tend to agree with this. Certainly a major aspect of the game is the tactical battle going on between opposition coaches, I just cant understand why a really good american football management game hasnt been made before. The sport itself just seems ideal for one. Certainly the level of detail and depth you could go into could be just as good/ if not better then what is possible for football.

You make a good point- imagine the tactics options- designing your own plays, formations etc. then sending them in every down. It really does have tons of potential, and I think people would like something like that here in the U.S.

[Wiitastic]

no. as Miles already stated when i asked him, SI will never make an NFL management/coaching game. to buy the licenses, it would cost far too much

[Dr. Hook]

no. as Miles already stated when i asked him, SI will never make an NFL management/coaching game. to buy the licenses, it would cost far too much

I remember reading that thread not too long ago. It could be done without licenses. I had a game once, Tom Landry Strategy Football, no license, but you knew what all the teams/players were. Would be easy enough to get around for the NFL, but for the NCAA . . .y

[mteeters]

Sports games don't really sell without a license anymore, except the NCAA games where no one has a player license.

[tommyh_16]

Was just going to mention RL Manager too...surprised it doesn't get more of a mention here given its similarity in style to FM. Premiership Coach 2010 is a reasonable attempt at an Australian Rules sim despite its very fiddly interface.

I have prem coach

[fuzzrab]

no. as Miles already stated when i asked him, SI will never make an NFL management/coaching game. to buy the licenses, it would cost far too much

I don't reckon they would lose too much money, if any, as there seems to be such a big demand for it on here alone. They might make a slight loss on the first edition but the versions after that would generate more and more publicity and fans as the detail got better.

It is not just the American market that would buy it either, there would be plenty of peopel oversees who would buy it. I originally come from Scotland but now live in Australia. in Scotland/Europe about 10 yrs ago iirc there was an American football comp going on between European teams, dont know if still goes on now, that was reasonably popular. Also in Australia there seems to be a lot of people who follow the American teams over here. In my office there is a least 3-4 people who follow it and not just during superbowl. So i would imagine there would be plenty of people from these countries who would give it a go.

Another potential market would be people like myself who dont actually follow the sport, tried once but couldn't get the hang of it, but love management sims who would buy it.

[B. Stinson]

There's never been a management sim in the USA that's even approached european levels of sales of CM / FM

That's because there's never been a management sim in the USA that's even approached the quality of CM / FM.

Front Office Football is basically a one-man basement project, and EA's NFL Head Coach was just another pile of crap that EA cranked out to make another quick buck or two.

If done right, an NFL sim could be the American FM. But the key is: "if done right"... which, to be honest, I don't think SI could pull-off. We would need an American version of SI; people who could make it from first-hand knowledge, rather than research.

[William Hall]

I personally believe that a Rugby League management game could be a hit.

Rugby League is a sport with a professional competition in Australia and NZ (NRL), England, France and Wales (Super League).

Rugby League is the second sport in the world with a World Cup (after football).

The aforementioned Rugby League Manager is terrible, oddly enough in a sport where Australia's NRL is by a fair distance the best Rugby League competition in the world, England's Super League is ridiculously overrated, to the point where I simply cannot play a game where some of my team's best players are average, and some of my teams reserve graders are quite good.

One potential issue is that if Rugby League Manager is made I'd play FM less .

I'd also certainly volunteer to research.

I'd pay quite a bit for a Rugby League Manager and there are at least a few million in Australia who would do the same.

[Juventus]

I'd buy a copy of an American football game.

On side note, I hope S.I. can make a footballer's career mode where play as the player.

[Larsson#1]

EA has the exclusive rights to NFL, but out of all the worlds big sports it does seem to be the most tactical. But until the license issues have been sorted its EA and EA alone that would have to make the game.

[ArranoBeltza]

A bit of a side note:

I find it funny that Americans are so against European "socialism" whereas, if you look at American sports leagues, they are way more "socialized" than sports in Europe.

[Johnjo]

Front Office Football is a good game, Just very outdated graphics wise and a little confusing if you don't know the way the game works. You have to edit in the team names but it has all the real players and is updated regularly. It has a good community and a lot of people playing multiplayer leagues online. Everyone is waiting for a new version that should come along soon. Football mogul seems like a good game as well. Wolverine Studios is in the process of developing an NFL management game as they have recently released their NBA sim.

A game that includes the college scene would be immense and have a very large target audience both in America and around the world. The reason i originally got into football(soccer) was through playing management sims, I also loved EHM to death and i don't have any interest in ice hockey.

Contrary to popular belief there is a lot of strategy involved in NFL. The game itself is like a game of chess, you have to guess what the other guy is going to do and figure out a way to counter it as well as focus on the strengths and weaknesses of different teams. There is a Salary cap so you can't just sign all the best players and roam around the nation mauling other teams. Then there is the draft where you have to try and guess what kind of player a young guy will develop into and if his personality will fit in with your current group of players, and that's really just scratching the surface.

It's a shame that EA has neglected the management part of the Madden series in recent years as it was quite good around the turn of the century and i spent many an hour playing it. I think SI could do a good job of releasing an NFL game and would make a lot of $$$ too, Perhaps the best approach would be to do what they have done in the past and take over an already developed game and make it better.

[alex.s]

Front Office Football is a good game, Just very outdated graphics wise and a little confusing if you don't know the way the game works. You have to edit in the team names but it has all the real players and is updated regularly. It has a good community and a lot of people playing multiplayer leagues online. Everyone is waiting for a new version that should come along soon. Football mogul seems like a good game as well. Wolverine Studios is in the process of developing an NFL management game as they have recently released their NBA sim.

A game that includes the college scene would be immense and have a very large target audience both in America and around the world. The reason i originally got into football(soccer) was through playing management sims, I also loved EHM to death and i don't have any interest in ice hockey.

I must admit i havnt tried front office football. I am not sure how much I could enjoy it tbh. Not with the tantalizing prospect of how good and american football game would be if made by SI and sega. The lack of college football teams is definitely throws me off as well.

Contrary to popular belief there is a lot of strategy involved in NFL.

I actually disagree with you here. At least in my country (Australia) the general belief seems to be that the game if anything is a bit too tactical rather than not tactical enough. However the game seems to be getting more and more popular over here, and I reckon a management sim for gridiron would definitely sell outside of the states as well as in.

[Johnjo]

I am an Aussie too mate, we seem to be taking over the SI forums of late. Basicly got into American Football by playing madden a lot. Don't particularly like either of the rugby codes and reserve a special hatred of AFL. As for our disagreement I was trying to have a subtle dig at SCIAG's post.

I genuinely don't know the answer, but how much can a coach actually dictate in American Football? I'd always been given the impression that the game revolved around the qualities of the runners, and most importantly, the brain and arm of the quarterback. Is there the same level of strategy that there can be in football? Likewise for rugby, really- you may be able to say "use the forwards" or "use the backs", but you can't really say "use a slow tempo" or "play lots of mispasses".

I definatly think there is enough about american football to make a very good managment sim

[B. Stinson]

why keep this useless thread alive and decide to post after a 3 month period of no posts for this thread ? please let it die, thankyou

Wow, what's up your butt?

This thread is perfect for what he wanted to post.

[Guest]

Greydog software make a college American football sim called Bowl Bound but there is no option to carry on into the NFL.

The now defunct 400 software studios made a decent American football sim called Total Pro Football which was clearly based on the NFL although the teams had names like Cincinnati Tigers, etc. Sadly I have never been able to get it to work in anything other than XP.

[PLeaseDontSackME]

Their would be a lot of interest if SI decided to release an 'NFLM' IMO.

The only problem is time and money, SI have always said their match engine and database is their biggest asset in terms of what puts them ahead of their 'rivals. Re-vamping the match engines for an NFL game would take a lot of time and money. We know this just by the patch by patch release from SI to tweak match engine problems every year so to change the mechanics completely would be a BIG job.

As to the database, this would take time as well as many volunteers which FM currently has.

Its just a matter of SI and Sega digging into their pockets to make this new venture. In the long term i think it would be of great benefit to them. After all America is the size of Europe with a population of around 700 million right? Of which American football is a big franchise and a big money spinner with millions upon millions of fans.

Never say never as they say but its not something that would be on the shelves in the near future unfortunately IMO.

[Neil Brock]

That's because there's never been a management sim in the USA that's even approached the quality of CM / FM.

Front Office Football is basically a one-man basement project, and EA's NFL Head Coach was just another pile of crap that EA cranked out to make another quick buck or two.

If done right, an NFL sim could be the American FM. But the key is: "if done right"... which, to be honest, I don't think SI could pull-off. We would need an American version of SI; people who could make it from first-hand knowledge, rather than research.

EHM was

[megafan2005]

]After all America is the size of Europe with a population of around 700 million right?

Europe has well over double the amount of people America has.

I know this topic should have perhaps died months ago but my two cents is that this is a risk not worth taking for SI. They sit very comfortable with decent sales figures year after year for FM why rock the boat and put the whole company at risk on the off-chance that either an American Football or Rugby Management game would sell well.

[PLeaseDontSackME]

Europe has well over double the amount of people America has.

I know this topic should have perhaps died months ago but my two cents is that this is a risk not worth taking for SI. They sit very comfortable with decent sales figures year after year for FM why rock the boat and put the whole company at risk on the off-chance that either an American Football or Rugby Management game would sell well.

Because I'm sure SI and SEGA are still looking for growth in brand name and sales. Although they do well i don't believe they are on a par with EA and other games developer companies.

[megafan2005]

Because I'm sure SI and SEGA are still looking for growth in brand name and sales. Although they do well i don't believe they are on a par with EA and other games developer companies.

I think they would be fairly satisfied with FM considering it has a slight growth in sales year on year. Also it is a huge financial risk they don't need to expand if they are comfortable keeping it as close to the company's roots as possible.

[tdpatriots12]

Honestly I think basketball would be better. That way you could - at least ideally - include all the leagues from across the world, college basketball, even high school and AAU. The NBA would just be the top league. It also has the bonus of international competitions, as well.

Also the reason NFL Head Coach didn't sell well is it was terrible. Madden's Franchise mode had almost everything it did, and had the bonus of being Madden.

[Jops14]

Speaking as an englishman who plays american football at uni, and has played football most of my life, to the few people that have said they are unsure of the popularity of such a game in europe, you'd be very surprised. It was only until i started playing thta i realised how large the game is, withteams all over europe competing, and the teams themselves do feature a fair few ex NFL players (albeit those that were 3rd string etc). But many people playing at the top level in Britain believe its only a matter of years before it becomes a professional sport in the uk, and the capacity for success can be seen by the NFL games at wembley. Although, personally i find the game isnt always that enthralling to watch, it depends who you're with, if your watching it wiht a good group of freinds you barely notice the stop/start nature, however if you're watching it on your own... And the capacity for the spectacular is amazing.

In regards to managing, i agree with those saying American Football is much more in depth, due to the fluidity of football, players are only really working on a base structure, its up to the flair and differences of the individuals to create the space and so on, so the players in essence have more of an impact. Whereas in american football, in all of our games this year, our plays were completely altered to deal with an opponents strength and their usual plays, whilst in offense, your working more to a strict tempo, and people executing their set plays perfectly, its a far more tactical game than football, and as a result the coaches have more influence. So i think the merits of having this sort of game are there, i think its doable...

Anyway, thats what i had to say...

[bill93]

Agree completely with the above. The coaches have so much more control over the game. It's generally if sheer ignorance when it's described as boring. Although I wouldn't say there are enough fans in England to support a mainstream game with the rise of social and internet gaming I reckon one will appear given time. Albeit not quite as much depth as FM.

[senorcoo]

no. as Miles already stated when i asked him, SI will never make an NFL management/coaching game. to buy the licenses, it would cost far too much

Ok, so make one without the licenses. Front Page Sports Football Pro did it back in the day for Sierra. It can be done. It's a genre of game that is completely missing because of the exclusive license that EA has. Who loses? Us, of course. As long as the NFL can get their big paycheck and EA can basically have a monopoly so that stupid people buy a crappy game every year that essentially boils down to being a roster update.

[rancer890]

EHM was

It's time for EHM to come back. EHM12 please?

There's still an EHM community and there's the entire Canadian/US market as well as Scandinavia, Germany, Switzerland, Russia, and the UK. We love our hockey and if there was more of an EHM presence here it can work.

An NFL game won't sell very well without a license. I rather bring back EHM than a rugby manager or a NFL manager game.

[cockyhammer]

i personally would prefer a basketball game because i think that SI could do a brilliant nba management sim.

[AcidBurn]

An American football game similar to fm would work in my opinion but I would not buy it, I would buy a basketball one.

Only other sports simulater I play is text based wmma 3 which involves running a mixed martial arts company. It is easily one of the most addictive games ever.

[glennuk]

Firstly where do you get the wmma from?

Secondly i think that the main problem would be that the games would take far too long. I mean in my understanding, much of american football is about changing formation, calling individual plays, depending on the opposing team etc.

So you would constantly be pausng the game going into the tactics screen, choosing an appropriate tactic, until the next down, where you would go into the tactics screen etc etc etc.

It would take an AGE to get through a game, which for me would be a turn off, and im guessing most casual fans would say the same.

I think hardcore fans would buy it but that is about it.

Unless i am wrong about american football? I only watch it a bit.

[Jason24]

I would LOVE a really indepth NFL management game, would have to have college football in it too imo. There is a huge fanbase out there in my experience.

[AcidBurn]

wmma is from www.greydogsoftware.com I think they do a collage basketball game as well as several text based fighting and wrestling games.

[rancer890]

The podcast did say FML was shutting down and Miles had a new announcement to make that he refused to make on the last podcast. So who knows, maybe a new game is coming! Or it could be something else..

[Ego Scriptor]

It was a bit clumsily put, but it's a fair point. There's never been a management sim in the USA that's even approached european levels of sales of CM / FM. The reasons for that are varied, of course.

It's unlikely that SI will ever make an American Football game , I would suggest.

The Madden NFL games have management modes in them that are very popular. Also, web-based fantasy baseball is huge in the US.

[Ricky Riccardo]

How about a rugby league game? Or if they reckoned the target market was too small, how about tagging on a little bolt on with Union [spits] on it as well?

I have Russell Crowe on Messenger and he said he would do the advertising campaign for it free of charge if you let him wear a Bunnies hat.

lolsouffs

I personally believe that a Rugby League management game could be a hit.

Rugby League is a sport with a professional competition in Australia and NZ (NRL), England, France and Wales (Super League).

Rugby League is the second sport in the world with a World Cup (after football).

The aforementioned Rugby League Manager is terrible, oddly enough in a sport where Australia's NRL is by a fair distance the best Rugby League competition in the world, England's Super League is ridiculously overrated, to the point where I simply cannot play a game where some of my team's best players are average, and some of my teams reserve graders are quite good.

One potential issue is that if Rugby League Manager is made I'd play FM less .

I'd also certainly volunteer to research.

I'd pay quite a bit for a Rugby League Manager and there are at least a few million in Australia who would do the same.

Id love a RL sim! I'd happily do all the reasearch for SI, my Dragons would be all 20's though ^_^

[Adam Dunbar]

I would LOVE a really indepth NFL management game, would have to have college football in it too imo. There is a huge fanbase out there in my experience.

Defo, a great NFL game would be fab - I would say there is MUCH MORE scope for tactical depth than in football

Creating your own plays and playbook itself would have almost limitless tactics & strategy

Imagine the depth if you did have college football included

Ive always missed a quality NFL online management game bigtime - bring it on

[Jops14]

The games wouldnt take forever to sim though, you could invent the playbook, then set your team on which series of plays to run for deifferent scenarios. E.g 2nd and long going for a draw play, or could come up with many run offensives and set your team up as a running team, to change on 3rd and long to the passes etc, similiar with defence, only taking control when your either in the red zone or in the 35. It could definately work, but the amount of time that would need to be invested for such a project...

[afromanGT]

I think it would be fantastic to be able to call the shots for an NFL team like with FM. However, I think that the NFL rights would be astronomical to obtain and they're pretty tight with things like that and the time required to create it and functionality of the game could be very, very complicated.

[Age_master]

A NFL or college football management game towards the FM standard would be amazing. Yes the NFL rights would be expensive, but there are no rights for NCAA. There is certainly a big market for it in the US, if the game was good it would undoubtedly boots FM sales over there too.

[tom_numbers]

this is a risk not worth taking for SI. They sit very comfortable with decent sales figures year after year for FM why rock the boat and put the whole company at risk on the off-chance that either an American Football or Rugby Management game would sell well.

They could license out their base work to an American games company maybe? There must be one American developer with the money to take a gamble on getting some NFL rights and buying the framework from whoever it is that owns the rights to FM. I don't mean buy outright, but sort of, be allowed to use the ideas and coding of FM. My knowledge of this whole thing is extremely limited.

You'd definitely need a shedload of clauses in there to stop them from just running away and building their own game once they've learnt the FM secrets.

[Aussieliverpool]

Come one SI make the Aussie Rules version, Premership Coach is too annoying and rough.

[javier_83]

i hope some day can see a boxing managment game with the quality and realism of football manager

[Thrasher]

for years now, an american football manager game made with the engine of FM is my dream game.

there never was a proper NFL management game, Head Coach is a stupid, shallow, typical EA Sports crap, Football Mogul and co. are too amateurish.

I understand the marketability issues, the fact that many american football fans dont give a crap about the immense depth of the tactics of the sport, they just wanna see huge tackles, and all the other sad realities of the thing, but I cant stop dreaming, cause weve already seen OOTP branching out of FM, made by only a handful of guys.

I wouldnt even mind if there werent be a graphical engine, but srsly, a game with the tactical depth, and the 2D engine of FM would be absolutely the perfect game for me.

[davieold]

im a massive nfl fan and with there not being a decent management sim theres not even a decent f1 management sim thats up to date

[JalenTigh]

There is simply no market for it. Believe it or not, the number of people who enjoy this style of game is very small.. What makes FM such a success is the world wide popularity of the sport which enables them to tap into those small groups in each country, boosting their sales. American football however, while clearly the most popular sport in America, has hardly any significant fan base outside on the US, which would really limit the game to just a very small number of really diehard sport franchise game fans in the US (and you really have to be diehard to enjoy a game this in depth).

That said, if SI ever made one, I would buy it

[nick1408]

Come one SI make the Aussie Rules version, Premership Coach is too annoying and rough.

I second this - would probably give up FM if this happened though

[Dr. Hook]

An American football game similar to fm would work in my opinion but I would not buy it, I would buy a basketball one.

Only other sports simulater I play is text based wmma 3 which involves running a mixed martial arts company. It is easily one of the most addictive games ever.

You like the WMMA3 from Greydog? I was looking at the Boxing manager one, and it looked like something I would enjoy, but wasn't sure of the quality of their games.