AI Experiment - what would happen if?

[djhdjh]

Yes it's on full detail - I have managed in all 3 major leagues.

I do suspect the English not winning the Champions League for 20 years was a bit of a one off (and especially odd since England are all but invincible except when I manage a national team) but in most saves I have found that the English league is generally more volatile and my explanation for that is smaller reputation gaps.

The game also does a good job of accurately simulating the TV deals so that the very big clubs in Italy and Spain get massive details (because they negotiate individually) and the smaller clubs get very small ones while England is more equal because it is collective negotiation. It may be that because of this the money pot is split more equally and therefore bridging the gap becomes easier.

Maybe I am wrong on this but that is what my experience tells me will happen.

[JRHaggs]

Interesting. It seems that the parity that is supposed be encouraged by the EPL's collective negotiation in reality has translated well to FM, huh? I'll be on the look out to see if my experiences match yours. I play very slowly (so much micro-managing!), so I may never get far enough into the game to witness any meaningful long-term results, though.

[Chilliconcarnie]

My suggestions for the next experiment:

Kip, you say how you are going to have multiple teams for the experiment - how about say three teams, one in the top three countries (Which I would put at England, Italy and Spain). Instead of all 22 players (assuming you stick to 22) just having the nationality of the country they play in, how about make the second 11 have a second nationality. Maybe the same 2nd nationailty in all three teams?

I think maybe you need to have a "dummy run" or two of the final set up.

I think we woudl all like the Bandits to hold onto their stars for a few seasons, so maybe it would be worth having a few holiday games running for 5 years, based on differing stats (loyalty, ambition etc) to see how that goes?

Still loving this thread kip. No matter how you decide to run the next experiment, I am sure it will still be an amazing read!

[Veg]

Originally posted by kipfizh:

FM09 changes – Their ambition may be raised from one to five, to give them more drive without making them disloyal.

It's possibl you might not need to up the ambition, it's a way around this. When you add the players go to the Person Data window and give them 20 for all the jobs under Job Preferences. I've done this in a database I made and everyone became a non-player. Even the unambitious and the ones that was succesfull during their careers.

[Marky Mark!]

Great experiment so far Kip, whilst I'll obviously keep on following this one, I think we have learnt all we can from it, and now look forward to the FM09 experiment, especially with the introduction of an anti-bandits.

Obviously you already have plans for them, but I would imagine they would be a club with a terrible squad of players, terrible board, minimal finances, but a reputation through the roof (with one starting in BSN and one in BSS)?

Can't wait for FM09 to be released just so I can follow the new experiment. I would think the experiment should start as soon as possible after release and not after the first patch, but there is merit in either argument.

KUTGW!

[turn it upto 11]

when not on full detail matches are pretty much determined by reputation, rather than tactics playars etc. obviously doesnt always end up bigger rep wins every time. but theres not much randomness.

[kipfizh]

Right, I'm back from holiday, and the season report will be coming a little later, but first I wanted to say thanks for all the feedback on the FM09 experiment ideas.

I'll answer some pertinent points in a sec.

[kipfizh]

Originally posted by valencia:

wow, great work Kip. I must say that I am especially looking forward to the FM09 experiment after your teasers above. I should imagine you will need a monstrous PC to cope with all those leagues on full detail (considering the experiment will hopefully last 50 years of gametime itself. I would suggest you keep the names of the players as GK1, GK2 etc. It makes it much easier to track.

Yes, this is what I'll do, otherwise it'll be a case of 'where does he play again?' for each of them. It needs the structure.

now, perhaps a contentious point, will you start the experiment as soon as FM09 is out, or will you wait for any patches to be released (i'm just being realistic here). Some patches have historically, despit being 'save game compatible', only really taken full effect on new save games.

I was wondering when this would come up. The honest answer is that I haven't decided yet, and will wait for the release to see what happens. If there are clear issues that would be solved quickly, then I'll wait for the patch, but we'll have to wait and see on that one - all depends on the quality of the original release!

[kipfizh]

Originally posted by Wegason:

Wow, thanks Kip. I actually edited the data for my experiment with the beta patch, which then wouldn't work with 8.01 or 8.02, so I had to then recreate the database from scratch for 8.02 for my New Dawn in a New Land Challenge. So in effect, I've created the database twice.

Ouch! Your commitment certainly can't be doubted!

In my database/experiment/challenge I found that when I was setting my 'starlets' reputations as deliberately low, and running in full detail, those players with fantastic ability left within a season, often before the start of the season. This was with high loyalty set, their favourite club being the one they're at, and this is at clubs with reputations around 5000.

They were leaving for small amounts when they had low reputations personally, so I decided to experiment with giving them maximum reputation. This had a different effect for me, some of the starlets stayed, for two seasons, and then left for bigger money. One of them stayed for a season before leaving for £1.2 million plus clauses, as opposed to the players before moving around for £20-50k.

I think the price is certainly dependent on reputation, but hopefully the Bandits will be set financially anyway so that this isn't an issue.

The real issue, as you say, is getting them to stay, and I'll be interested to see what I can change in the DB to make this more likely this time around. I'd like them to stay longer than a year.

[kipfizh]

Originally posted by AB-forever:

AaB knocked The Bandits out of the UEFA Cup

Yep - no offence to AaB, but that wasn't the Bandits' finest hour...

Rubio came 2nd in World Footballer Of The Year

But how much longer will he stay at a troubled team?

[kipfizh]

Originally posted by Meitheisman:

If I may, I have an additional suggestion for your FM09 Experiment, how about giving another nationality to half of the original players to see which nation picks them up first? Try some average to low nation and also the big names of football to see if an 18 year old starlet is willing to wait an extra year to play for Brazil/France instead of England and if some of them chose to play for Bulgaria/Nigeria. Being non-English myself (French) I’d like to see some of the stars pick other nations plus it would give us an opportunity to see if one superstar can bring a nation to success.

I can’t wait for FM09 already, the new detail level should make an interesting difference.

I like it, and I think this one has legs. Examining the international scene didn't hold much interest with a dominant England side, and this just might spark it up.

So, all 22 players will have English as one nationality, and another nation (mostly European) as their other. All 22 players will have a different second nation, and none will be declared for any nation.

Cheers!

[kipfizh]

Originally posted by VonBlade:

Idiots. Be very careful trying to make them too idiotic. I've done lots of experiments with nerfing players and sometimes if they're too idiotic they'll never ever get a game. Which surely isn't the point?

Slack players (low determination, bravery etc) end up just being too lazy to impress and thus rot on the bench.

Absolutely. They'll be massively selfish and idiotic, but be extremely driven in that aim

Rival Club.

This club has to, and as one of the original fans of the Bandits my opinion is law (lmfao), be called the Sheriffs. Just has to.

Set. In. Stone. I like it The Sheriffs they are, which quite nicely first in with their theme....

[kipfizh]

Originally posted by VonBlade:

Thank Kip for that. Way has gone a-way (see what I did there ).

*groan*

I do like the idea of second nationalities though. Nothing stupid like San Marino because they'll obviously end up there and never feature in the major competitions, but some middling nations as second nationalities could prove interesting in a "one player makes a team" way and also let more of them enjoy international football when their Bandits teammates fill up all the starting slots.

Exactly why I like the idea so much. Just a though - wouldn't it be good if I was running 23 countries on full detail, England and 22 others, and those other 22 have one original starlet with them as a second nationality?

Off the top of my head: Scotland, France, Italy, Spain, Portugal, Germany, Belgium, Brazil, Argentina, Holland, Turkey, Greece, USA, Croatia, Sweden....

Hmm, that's 15. 22 might be tricky, but you get the idea.

[kipfizh]

Originally posted by JRHaggs:

The degree to which this is truly intended to be an experiment is totally up to Kip. I am very analytical, so it is my nature to point out what I see as experimental stumbling blocks and opportunities.

I feel like what we have learned from the '07 experiment is not at all what we had set out to learn.

I agree completely, and like you, I'm extremely analytical.

What I am aiming to do is expand the experiment to investigate new angles without losing anything we already have. So, for example, the Bandits as a club are well set up, so that may stay largely the same, but international football is mostly unaffected by the database changes, so there is scope for alteration there.

[kipfizh]

Originally posted by Meitheisman:

I'm sure some twists here and there could make this much better so suggest away, also this could be a major difference, since there will be 2 teams (Bandits & Sheriffs) will you create 22 or 44 starlets Kipfizh?

22, without a doubt. I think 44 would be too many to track and we'd lose the feel for who is who. 22 was doable, and we could distinguish between the players and get some feel for personality. The more there are, the more difficult that becomes.

The main thing that's troubling me at the moment is how the Bandits are going to be unbelievably good for 1-2 seasons while the starlets are there, since on full detail they'll destroy their league.

That will make their records nigh on impossible to beat after they've left, so perhaps I need to ignore the official records and record my own for those that come after.

[kipfizh]

Originally posted by Mravac Kid:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Meitheisman:

The English League/non-League is definitely the best one to use since you can see the club rise from further down. Is there any other country that has 6 playable divisions?

Unfortunately, no. Scotland, France, Germany, Italy and, strangely enough, Sweden have 4 leagues, others have 3 or fewer. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

And that's why the experiment will continue to focus on the English leagues, as they have the most depth. But everywhere with three or more leagues will be played on full detail, certainly.

[kipfizh]

Originally posted by Chilliconcarnie:

Kip, you say how you are going to have multiple teams for the experiment - how about say three teams, one in the top three countries (Which I would put at England, Italy and Spain). Instead of all 22 players (assuming you stick to 22) just having the nationality of the country they play in, how about make the second 11 have a second nationality. Maybe the same 2nd nationailty in all three teams?

I want the Bandits and the Sheriffs to play each other, so they'll be in the same league, but I am also keen to try out various boards, without destroying the English leagues, so they may be a few lower league sides in Spain or Italy that find themselves altered at board level.

[AB-forever]

Originally posted by kipfizh:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by AB-forever:

AaB knocked The Bandits out of the UEFA Cup

Yep - no offence to AaB, but that wasn't the Bandits' finest hour... </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Actually AaB won the Danish Premier League this season

Originally posted by kipfizh:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by AB-forever:

Rubio came 2nd in World Footballer Of The Year

But how much longer will he stay at a troubled team? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

That's the question that I hope to get an answer to in the next 12 hours

[chopper99]

Read the 50 year review a while ago but forgot to congratulate you on another fine update

The '09 experiment is shaping up to be excellent and a big step forward from this one. I still, however, want to see the '07 Bandits win something major before '09 comes out. So come on The Bandits!!!

By the way Kip, I'm off to Kenya on Monday so a season update before then would be much appreciated

[turn it upto 11]

the bandits need a home. what city are they on in the original exp.

[bermybhoy]

I haven't contributed before, but have followed for some time and it's fantastic work Kipfizh, really is. The detail in the reports is something else, clearly very time consuming, so well done. Hats off for even thinking of doing this again on a bigger scale.

Small theory: not many fo the players went into non-playing careers - would setting non-playing stats for them at the outset just result in them being appointed into such roles at a stupidly young age? I suspect it would, unfortunately, but it would be nice if they could all wait til they retired and then all had happy coaching careers as well...

[Meitheisman]

to the double nationality.

Will you set all of them as English 1st Nationality and foreign as second or will you also do foreign first and english second nationality? I'd like half and half personally (odd vs even numbers of players, ie: GK 1 English as first nationality , GK 2 English as 2nd) That way we could see if a Foreigner playing in England is more likely to play for the English national team than his own as well as seeing if primarily English player decide to play for another country.

Fair enough on the 44 players idea, it would be too many to track.

On a side note, I hope you will make the Sheriffs really rich too, or at least find a way to make sure they eventually climb up the divisions else they'll only face the All Mighty Bandits their first season and then struggle in lower divisions.

[kipfizh]

Bandits report – Season report (part two)

January-May

January began with a 2-0 win over Hull, followed by a 2-0 FA Cup win over eventual Conference North winners Rotherham, new signing Luigi Terranova scoring an getting sent off in an eventful debut. Defeat to Villa was followed by three 1-1 draws in the awkward run of games against West Ham, Arsenal and Chelsea. Meanwhile, they were crashing out of the FA Cup, losing 1-0 at Man City.

They got some measure of revenge in the league with a 3-0 win over City, but once again the form was shortlived, a loss to West Brom keeping them down in 14th.

And the up and down form continued for the rest of the season, with the last ten games bringing five wins, three of them against Spurs, Liverpool and Burnley, all top five teams, but also five defeats holding them back in 14th after the poorest season in years.

So although the Bandits were never in relegation trouble, they also never threatened to move up to mid table or beyond, largely thanks to the ineptitude of Robbie Way leaving the club relying on just a few players. When those individuals were injured or not performing, the team never stood a chance.

Alan McDermott now has a major rebuilding job on his hands, but the reputation hit the club will have taken this season will not help, and may force him to buy young players for a future rather than those who can slot straight into the side.

It is an important summer. Another bad season next year, and many of the stars will probably leave.

Honours: League Cup (2044, 2047, 2052)

[kipfizh]

Bandits report – Season summary

2006-07, English Conference South - 1st, FA Trophy - Winners

2007-08, English National Conference - 7th, FA Trophy - Final

2008-09, English National Conference – 7th

2009-10, English National Conference – 9th

2010-11, English National Conference – 6th

2011-12, English National Conference – 18th

2012-13, English National Conference – 5th

2013-14, English National Conference – 1st

2014-15, English League Two – 21st

2015-16, English League Two – 21st

2016-17, English League Two – 6th

2017-18, English League Two – 6th

2018-19, English League Two – 7th

2019-20, English League Two – 6th, Johnstone’s Paint Trophy – South Semi Final

2020-21, English League Two – 10th

2021-22, English League Two – 1st, Johnstone’s Paint Trophy - Final

2022-23, English League One – 13th, Johnstone’s Paint Trophy – South Semi Final

2023-24, English League One – 11th, League Cup – Final

2024-25, English League One – 11th, League Cup – Semi-Final

2025-26, English League One – 18th

2026-27, English League One – 17th

2027-28, English League One – 14th

2028-29, English League One – 20th

2029-30, English League One – 1st

2030-31, English Championship – 14th

2031-32, English Championship – 10th, League Cup – Final

2032-33, English Championship – 12th

2033-34, English Championship – 8th

2034-35, English Championship – 21st

2035-36, English Championship – 2nd

2036-37, English Premiership – 17th

2037-38, English Premiership – 12th

2038-39, English Premiership – 15th, FA Cup – Semi-Final

2039-40, English Premiership – 11th

2040-41, English Premiership – 14th

2041-42, English Premiership – 13th

2042-43, English Premiership – 11th

2043-44, English Premiership – 6th, League Cup – Winners

2044-45, English Premiership – 9th

2045-46, English Premiership – 3rd

2046-47, English Premiership – 2nd, League Cup – Winners

2047-48, English Premiership – 5th, League Cup – Final

2048-49, English Premiership – 5th, UEFA Cup – Semi-Final

2049-50, English Premiership – 11th, League Cup – Final

2050-51, English Premiership – 6th

2051-52, English Premiership – 9th, League Cup – Winners

2052-53

English Premiership: (Pos 3), P 38, W 21, D 6, L 11, F 67, A 46, GD +21, Pts 69

(Media Prediction: 8th)

UEFA Cup: 1st Knockout Round

FA Cup: 4th Round

League Cup: 3rd Round

2053-54

English Premiership: (Pos 5), P 38, W 15, D 15, L 8, F 55, A 46, GD +9, Pts 60

(Media Prediction: 5th)

UEFA Cup: Semi-Final

FA Cup: Semi-Final

League Cup: Quarter-Final

2054-55

English Premiership: (Pos 6), P 38, W 18, D 7, L 13, F 64, A 57, GD +7, Pts 61

(Media Prediction: 5th)

UEFA Cup: Quarter-Final

FA Cup: 4th Round

League Cup: 3rd Round

2055-56

English Premiership: (Pos 6), P 38, W 16, D 9, L 13, F 61, A 54, GD +7, Pts 57

(Media Prediction: 4th)

FA Cup: 3rd Round

League Cup: 4th Round

2056-57

English Premiership: (Pos 14), P 38, W 13, D 9, L 16, F 61, A 60, GD +1, Pts 48

(Media Prediction: 4th)

League

UEFA Cup: 1st Round

FA Cup: 3rd Round

League Cup: 4th Round

[kipfizh]

Bandits report - Best and Worst

General

Stats

Finance Overview

Cashflow is still on the rise, so the new manager has plenty to spend if he wants to use it.

New records:

None

This season:

Best player – Rubio, 7.58

Top scorer – Rubio, 21

Worst player – Williamson, 6.36

The Bandits are once again the richest club in the world, but it is close now with Barcelona only 4m behind them.

Rich Clubs

[kipfizh]

Bandits report - First XI Summary

GK: McParland (27, 172/173) – 7.44

LB: Sadar (27, 174/174) – 6.79

CB: Dompig (31, 163/170) – 7.00

CB: Christie (28, 173/179) – 7.14

RB: Fernandez (21, 157/174) – 6.47

LM: Mora (30, 151/151) – 6.60

CM: Williamson (30, 171/189) – 6.36

CM: Birchall (29, 179/188) – 7.47

RM: Cox (26, 168/177) – 6.97

ST: Rubio (28, 184/184) – 7.58

ST: Messner (28, 175/175) – 7.46

Average age – 27.7 (up from last year’s 27.1)

Average CA – 169.7 (down from last year’s 169.8)

Average rating – 7.03 (down from last year’s 7.04)

So much of this Bandits team is spot on. There are seven players down the spine (McParland, Dompig, Christie, Williamson, Birchall, Rubio and Messner), and of those seven only Williamson needs replacing – the other six are superb. Dompig is coming to the end of his time, but he can still offer the defence security for two years.

But elsewhere, it is a disaster. None of the wide players average seven, and the club doesn’t even have a left winger, playing an on loan thirty year old instead.

But the real problem lies behind these eleven, where all of a sudden you realise there is nothing. Whenever any of the impressive spine get injured, they are replaced by far inferior players, and that is why they struggled this season.

And it won’t be an easy problem to fix – it is exceptionally hard to build a squad of depth when your first team contain plenty of members approaching their decline. They will need replacing in the next couple of years, so the new manager needs to make full use of the transfer kitty available to him.

[kipfizh]

Bandits report – Outside the first XI

Dropped:

Boateng (LB): The fill in man found himself out of favour as soon as Borut Sadar was signed in his position.

Sold:

Matthews (RB): Disappointingly sold to Arsenal in January for 12.75m, although he was really poor for them. Well replaced by 21 year old Fernandez.

Baptiste (LM): After an abysmal first season, was sold and replaced by the on loan Mora.

Parker (CM): At 33, was considered to old to continue and was sold.

Prospects

Depressingly, once again there are no prospects.

[kipfizh]

Competitions - Other stats

England reached the semi finals of the European Championships before losing on penalties to Scotland, who went on to be defeated in the final by Portugal. Turkey extended their record winless run in the tournament proper to eleven before beating Poland in the group stage, while Scotland went a record six games without conceding, only to let in the only goal of the final. Arsenal’s Portuguese goalkeeper, Jose, also became the oldest player in the tournament, appearing at 39 in the group stage match against Sweden. Now 40, he is still Arsenal’s first choice stopper.

England have since won four out of four qualifying games for the World Cup.

Sheff Wed won their third straight Premiership title comfortably ahead of second placed Man Utd, with Chelsea again failing to qualify for Europe and the Bandits plummeting down the league. Man City joined Hull and Aldershot in relegation. There was a new record number of assists, Leeds’ Brazilian midfielder Santos managing seventeen.

Meanwhile, down in League Two, Welling confirmed that their rise was no blip, as they bounced straight back from relegation to go back up to League One.

Man Utd completed a very decent season by winning the FA Cup, beating Aston Villa in the final, while West Brom triumphed over Spurs in the League Cup. In the latter, Watford again lost in the first round, extending their own winless run to seventeen matches over fourteen years.

Milan retained the Champions League, denying Sheff Wed a fantastic double, while Armenia’s Ararat Yerevan again lost both legs of their qualifying round, stretching their dismal losing streak to thirteen.

Lyon claimed the UEFA Cup, beating Porto in the final of a dismal tournament for English sides, none of them even reaching the quarter finals. Jose Agatao of Boavista set a new record by scoring all five of his team’s goals against Cypriots APOEL, a remarkable achievement considering he is an attacking midfielder, not a striker.

[kipfizh]

Premiership Analysis - Reputation

(league position in bold)

1 (1). Sheff Wed (1) – 9700 (-119)

2 (10=). Man Utd (2) – 8439 (+1306)

3 (2). Burnley (5) – 8302 (+195)

4 (5). Tottenham (3) – 7815 (+207)

5 (4). Bandits (14) – 7786 (-10)

6 (8). West Ham (9) – 7737 (+332)

7 (3). Liverpool (4) – 7674 (-411)

8 (6). Aston Villa (7) – 7626 (+58)

9 (12). QPR (8) – 7589 (+571)

10 (7). Chelsea (6) – 7434 (-113)

11 (10=). West Brom (16) – 7420 (+287)

12 (9). Leeds (12) – 7119 (-279)

13 (-). Arsenal (13) – 7083 (+32)

14 (-). Port Vale (10) – 7044 (+14)

15 (15). Sunderland (11) – 6930 (+273)

16 (14). Chesterfield (17) – 6617 (-166)

17 (17). Crystal Palace (15) – 6529 (+66)

18 (13). Man City (19) – 6068 (-817)

19 (-). Aldershot (20) – 5760 (+124)

20 (18). Hull (18) – 5631 (-756)

Promoted sides

Brentford – 5461

Newcastle – 7363 (+796)

Wigan – 5383

Sheff Wed retain their spot at the top of the list despite a small drop, and they are still miles clear of anyone else. Man Utd surge back into second place after a fine season sees their reputation rise a great deal.

Burnley slip to third despite another improvement, while the Bandits drop back to fifth. Liverpool take hit, while Chelsea are now only tenth.

Newcastle look set to stay up with a reputation that will help them make the signings they need, although they are in debt. Brentford and Wigan are as good as down before they even start.

[kipfizh]

Premiership Analysis – Team Ability

(league position in bold)

1 (1). Sheff Wed (1) – 74.77 (+0.42)

2 (2). Liverpool (4) – 74.42 (+0.70)

3 (5). Aston Villa (7) – 73.64 (+1.39)

4 (4). Chelsea (6) – 72.71 (+0.46)

5 (8). Tottenham (3) – 72.59 (+1.63)

6 (6). West Ham (9) – 72.22 (+0.36)

7 (3). Bandits (14) – 72.12 (-0.25)

8 (9). Man Utd (2) – 71.51 (+0.62)

9 (7). Sunderland (11) – 71.48 (+0.21)

10 (-). Arsenal (13) – 71.40 (+1.90)

11 (10). Leeds (12) – 70.92 (+0.32)

12 (11). West Brom (16) – 70.62 (+0.13)

13 (15). Chesterfield (17) – 70.25 (+1.31)

14 (14). Man City (19) – 68.94 (-0.40)

15 (13). QPR (8) – 68.87 (-0.74)

16 (17). Burnley (5) – 68.21 (+0.20)

17 (16). Hull (18) – 67.78 (-0.55)

18 (20). Crystal Palace (15) – 67.66 (+1.58)

19 (-). Port Vale (10) – 66.52 (+0.83)

20 (-). Aldershot (20) – 66.46 (+2.34)

Promoted sides

Brentford – 61.55

Newcastle – 70.81 (+0.48)

Wigan – 64.99

Sheff Wed are once again the best side in the land, but it isn’t clear cut – Liverpool are now pushing them very hard for top spot. Aston Villa improve considerably to sit third, while the Bandits suffer a small ability loss that drops them four places to seventh.

Port Vale and Aldershot never really stood a chance, but again Burnley impress, making the most of their meager resources and ability.

Coming up, Newcastle are set to impress, while Wigan and especially Brentford have a mountain to climb.

Overachievers : Burneley and QPR, again

Underachievers : Bandits

Title Prediction : Liverpool to take over at the top

Relegation Prediction : Wigan and Brentford to be dreadful, Crystal Palace to join them.

[kipfizh]

Summary

A turbulent year for the Bandits has seen them slip out of the top half of the Premiership for the first time in many years. The cup runs weren’t much to speak of either, and a first round exit in the UEFA Cup just rubbed salt into the wounds.

Robbie Way’s tenure was a disaster, but he has finally gone, and the new man has a big job on his hands this summer if he is to rebuild the squad. Fortunately, the reputation hasn’t taken a huge hit, but it is low enough that they can’t sign the top stars right now. They need a squad though, and some young players. Will the right signings be made?

The one shining light was again Aitor Rubio, who came second in the World Footballer of the Year awards, recognition for his star talent amidst a struggling team. Will he stay?

It’ll take a lot to dethrone Sheff Wed at the moment, they are looking as dominant as ever, and has the reputation to keep adding stars to their squad. They already hold a decent number of the world stars of tomorrow.

This should be a summer of signings. Let’s hope they are the right ones.

Bandit’s former manager watch

Justin Edinburgh has retired.

Steve Brackstone has retired.

Gary Perry has retired.

Dean Glover has retired.

Martin Lawton has retired.

Danny Gamble has retired.

Phil Edwards has retired.

Ben Clayton remains manager of Milan, and had the perfect season, retaining the Champions League and winning both the Super Cup and World Club Championships, all with a CA of 68. Yet he is under pressure and can’t see a future for himself at the club. Go figure.

Stuart Davies has retired.

Left Back 1 has retired.

Neil Angus has retired.

Terry Arthur has retired.

Mark Nicholson continues as Bayern Munich manager, but having failed to qualify for the Champions League they only reach the quarter finals of the UEFA Cup before losing to Inter (managed by fellow former Bandit manager Reynolds, who replaced him there). He keeps his job but the fans don’t like him.

James Reynolds is still Inter Milan manager, but got knocked out of the UEFA Cup in the semi finals, by Lyon. He is under pressure.

Scott Tait continues as Liverpool manager, taking them to an impressive fourth in the Premiership.

Robbie Way was hired by Man City when they were 18th in the Premiership. He didn’t help them, and they finished 19th, dropping down to the Championship.

[kipfizh]

World View - Ones to watch

Your annual guide to the stars of tomorrow:

Alberto Galan (Real Betis/Spain, 18, 122/197, Target Striker: 59.70%), is the next potential star of tomorrow, following a long line of Spanish legends. He already has a few goals to his name for the club, and is tipped to become a big star.

Previous tips (legends, or players still with promise)

Bjorn Strand (West Ham/Norway, 34, 145/193, Target Striker: 75.49%), loses another eleven points of CA, and is beginning to lose the magic, scoring only ten times for West Ham.

Umit Abdulkadir (Real Madrid/Turkey, 32, 164/199, Target Striker: 75.40%), drops six more points, but gets back in the Real Madrid side, scoring 17 goals at an average of 7.63.

Leonardo (Barcelona/Brazil, 30, 168/185, Target Striker: 74.95%), loses another four points, but has a scorching season, netting thirty times for Barcelona. 42 goals in 49 caps for Brazil isn’t bad either.

Peter Schulz (Bayern Munich/Germany, 32, 155/188, Target Striker: 74.50%), is really declining now, losing seventeen CA points, and he struggles to get a game for Bayern Munich, although he is still a menace when he does play.

Fabrizio Bucci (Inter/Italy, 31, 171/199, Target Striker: 71.53%), drops eight more points of CA, but still manages nineteen goals for Inter. He still has it, and is just two goals ahead from an international century in only 101 caps.

Guillaume Charton (Lyon/France, 30, 193/194, Goalkeeper: 78.05%), remains one point from the peak he was at two seasons ago, and concedes only 17 goals in 40 games for Lyon, averaging 7.78 and leading them to UEFA Cup glory.

Juan Perez (Real Madrid/Mexico, 27, 194/194, Winger: 80.28%), spends his fourth successive year at his CA peak, and also rises above the magical 80% scouted rating mark. He averages 7.33 for Real Madrid, playing well without perhaps being the inspiration he could be.

Aaron Lomas (Tottenham/England, 28, 186/198, Target Striker: 79.79%), climbs up one more point, but is never going to reach that potential. He scores another 22 goals in a very good season for Spurs.

Graham Thomas (Liverpool/England, 26, 190/198, Centre Back: 78.11%), moves into world beater territory with a rise of two points, and coincides this with a fantastic season, averaging 7.51 at the back for Liverpool. His improvement in performance may be due to him finally settling at the club where he had so continually considered his options.

Andre Luis (Valencia/Brazil, 26, 188/198, Attacking Midfielder: 70.10%), gains one more point, but once again struggles for Valencia as his temperamental attitude holds him back.

Raymond van Dijk (Chelsea/Holland, 25, 187/195, Full Back: 80.61%), gains another two points of CA, and moves above the coveted 80% scouted rating mark, having another fine season for Chelsea. His club’s demise has left him wanting to join a bigger club, however, and he is currently the subject of bids from clubs all across Europe.

Roberio (Marseille/Brazil, 23, 188/198, Winger: 78.80%), gains six more points as he marches towards his potential, and finally clicks for Marseille, scoring 14 goals from the wing and averaging an impressive 7.48.

Olivier Texier (Sheff Wed/France, 24, 184/199, Winger: 79.73%), rises another two points, but continues to be played out of position at Sheff Wed and is performing abysmally. He needs to move to a club that plays a different system.

Robert Wojcik (Sheff Wed/Poland, 19, 172/194, Target Striker: 77.52%), gains an impressive sixteen CA points, and is now a key player for Sheff Wed, scoring 23 goals.

Juan Carlos Gimenez (Porto/Argentina, 20, 179/199, Midfielder: 75.84%), gains thirteen points in a season where he moved from his home town club San Lorenzo to Porto for 8.75m. He hasn’t settled well at his new club yet.

Gregory Bertin (Bordeaux/France, 19, 150/199, Winger: 62.09%), gains seventeen points, and has now broken into the Bordeauz team, where he is playing reasonably. He will improve.

Bjorn Zimmerman (Bayern Munich/Germany, 17, 123/195, Centre Back: 58.64%), gains only seven CA points, not enough for a teenager, but has now played one game for Bayern Munich. He needs to improve at a better rate in the future.

[kipfizh]

World View - World beaters (by CA)

Juan Perez (Real Madrid/Mexico, 27, 194/194, Winger: 80.28%), continues at his peak in a season where he joins the world beater list for scouted rating too. Still the best player in the world by CA, he plays well for Real Madrid without really shining as they would hope he would. He has the ability, but his performances are very inconsistent. On his day he is a superstar, but those days don’t come often enough.

Juan Perez

Guillaume Charton (Lyon/France, 30, 193/194, Goalkeeper: 78.05%), continues to be a star goalkeeper, but his CA remains just one off his peak, and the world leader. His record is impeccable though, being almost impossible to beat, conceding less than a goal every other game and averaging 7.78. He is a true world star.

Gillaume Charton

Mathieu Adam (Real Madrid/France, 27, 192/192, Goalkeeper: 76.27%), remains third on the list, and continues to play second fiddle to Charton at international level. But domestically, he is peerless, bettering even Charton’s record by conceding only 11 goals in 42 games, and averaging an astonishing 8.05. How France aren’t winning trophies with such a solid pair of keepers is beyond me.

Mathieu Adam

Graham Thomas (Liverpool/England, 26, 190/198, Centre Back: 78.11%), joins the list in fourth place, and having finally decided that Liverpool is a good enough club for him, he is shining, averaging a superb 7.51. A terrific defender, he is a big reason for Liverpool’s recovery.

Graham Thomas

It is rare to see four players on the world beater list, and none of them be a striker. Defences are on top in the world at the moment.

[kipfizh]

World View - World beaters (by scouted rating)

Terry Hill (Bayern Munich/England, 29, 171/183, Sweeper: 80.76%), enters the scouted rating list at top spot after a distinguished career in which he is regularly on the best team in the world list at sweeper. Capped only eight times by England, he averaged 7.73 for Bayern Munich to ridicule that selection policy.

Terry Hill

Raymond van Dijk (Chelsea/Holland, 25, 187/195, Full Back: 80.61%), is a re-entry on the list in second place, and is likely to have a new club next season, with Sheff Wed, Inter, Milan and Lyon already putting in sizeable bids. A great player, but his unhappiness brought his performances down a little this season.

Raymond van Dijk

Juan Perez (Real Madrid/Mexico, 27, 194/194, Winger: 80.28%), returns to the list in third place, and the best player in the world by CA is still extremely highly rated. Ironic, then, that he actually didn’t have a great season this time around.

Juan Perez

Here are the best players in the world, in each position, by scouted rating:

Goalkeeper: Gillaume Charton (Lyon/France, 30, 193/194, 78.05%)

Sweeper: Terry Hill (Bayern Munich/England, 29, 171/183, 80.76%)

Centre Back: Terry Hill (Bayern Munich/England, 29, 171/183, 78.78%)

Left Back: Benoit Dupuy (Aston Villa/Reunion, 26, 177/191, 78.89%)

Right Back: Raymond van Dijk (Chelsea/Holland, 25, 187/195, 80.61%)

Left Wing Back: Rumen Borisov (Lazio/Bulgaria, 25, 182/187, 79.13%)

Right Wing Back: Terje Jensen (Liverpool/Norway, 29, 167/180, 78.07%)

Defensive Midfielder: Patrick Frey (Bayern Munich/France, 27, 188/188, 75.06%)

Central Midfielder: Juan Perez (Real Madrid/Mexico, 27, 194/194, 78.73%)

Attacking Midfielder: Ronald Diaz (Newcastle/Bolivia, 33, 154/177, 77.33%)

Left Winger: Olivier Texier (Sheff Wed/France, 24, 184/199, 79.73%)

Right Winger: Juan Perez (Real Madrid/Mexico, 27, 194/194, 80.28%)

Fast Striker: Tom Barton (Man Utd/England, 24, 173/185, 77.45%)

Target Striker: Aaron Lomas (Tottenham/England, 28, 186/198, 79.79%)

Losing their place:

Emanuele Amodio (GK), Jiri Dolezal (CB), Joe Galloway (LB), Sean Ross (RWB), Goncalves (FS)

It is again a massive disappointment to see two former Bandits lead the line for the world team, Barton and Lomas both being underused when they were there. It is also the one and only time that the Reunion nation are represented in the list.

[kipfizh]

World View - Distribution of 180+ CA players

The clubs

Milan – 6 (+3) (189, 186, 184, 182, 181, 181)

Real Madrid – 5 (+1) (194, 192, 183, 183, 181)

Sheff Wed – 4 (-) (185, 184, 184, 181)

Barcelona – 4 (-) (185, 181, 181, 180)

Chelsea – 3 (+1) (187, 181, 180)

Tottenham – 3 (-) (186, 180, 180)

Lyon – 2 (-1) (193, 181)

Liverpool – 2 (-1) (190, 188)

Valencia – 2 (+1) (188, 182)

Marseille – 1 (-) (188)

Bayern Munich – 1 (-1) (188)

Porto – 1 (+1) (185)

Bandits – 1 (-) (184)

Man City – 1 (-) (183)

Nantes – 1 (-) (183)

Lazio – 1 (+1) (182)

Inter – 0 (-2)

Benfica – 0 (-1)

Total – 38 (+2)

The number of stars rises again to a high of 38, and Milan lead the way, owning the rights to six of them. Real Madrid follow close behind with five, while Sheff Wed and Barcelona have four each.

Inter and Benfica drop off the list, but are replaced by Porto and Lazio.

The leagues

England – 14 (-)

Spain – 11 (+2)

Italy – 7 (+2)

France – 4 (-1)

Germany – 1 (-1)

Portugal – 1 (-)

Total – 38 (+2)

England remain top, but both Spain and Italy are making ground. Italy’s stars are mostly at Milan, who have six of them.

The nationalities

France – 6 (-1)

England – 5 (-1)

Spain – 3 (-1)

Brazil – 2 (-)

Italy – 2 (-2)

Scotland – 2 (-)

Serbia – 2 (+2)

Peru – 2 (+1)

Mexico – 1 (-)

Belgium – 1 (-)

Holland – 1 (-1)

Argentina – 1 (-)

Portugal – 1 (+1)

Uruguay – 1 (-)

Colombia – 1 (-)

Wales – 1 (+1)

Bulgaria – 1 (+1)

Turkey – 1 (-)

Russia – 1 (-)

Germany – 1 (-)

Iceland – 1 (+1)

Ireland – 1 (+1)

Total – 38 (+2)

The spread of players is greater than ever before, with 22 countries sharing the 38 stars, but France still find themselves on top.

[kipfizh]

Originally posted by Meitheisman:

Will you set all of them as English 1st Nationality and foreign as second or will you also do foreign first and english second nationality? I'd like half and half personally (odd vs even numbers of players, ie: GK 1 English as first nationality , GK 2 English as 2nd) That way we could see if a Foreigner playing in England is more likely to play for the English national team than his own as well as seeing if primarily English player decide to play for another country.

In theory, it shouldn't matter which of the two nationalities is first, given that none of the players will be declared for a nation, so I like your approach to test that out - all odd numbered players will have English as their first nationality, and another as their second, and vice versa for the even numbers.

On a side note, I hope you will make the Sheriffs really rich too, or at least find a way to make sure they eventually climb up the divisions else they'll only face the All Mighty Bandits their first season and then struggle in lower divisions.

Absolutely. They will be behind the Bandits because they don't have the players initially, but they will be another sleeping giant, just set up differently, with the most impatient board possible. Rich they will certainly be, and an ambitious chairman might just see them fly.

[Meitheisman]

Welling back in League One

Lyon winning the UEFA Cup \o/

Glad to see the Bandits reputation didn't drop more than 10pts. Hopefully we can have a good season next year or more likely with the side we have a good Cup run if we stay clear of injuries and increase the reputation some more.

Also, the Bandits didn't witness such a reputation boost when they finished second in the league (or am I mistaken?) could Man Utd's boost be partially due to their past glory?

I was thinking about Sheff Wed's domination and steady success, is it possible for you to check what their chairman's stats are to see if this definitely is the key the Bandits miss please?

I don't think it's been asked before, so could you please also post a screen shot of the Managers Hall of Fame. Seeing Ben Clayton win yet another CL made me wonder if he made it, plus it would be interesting to see what it looks like over 50 years down the line. While I'm at it, could you please also post a screen shot of the best French Managers too?

Charlton played 24 League games and only conceded 6 goals, I don't think I've ever seen such an amazing record

Thanks for the responses regarding nationalities and the Sheriffs, sounds good

Yes, this post is long and messy but I was typing it while reading the update, sorry and congrats on the great work again Kipfizh.

[Scott1990]

Well, I don't think anyone can realistically deny super-keepers in 07 now

[Phil Macklam]

Kip great as always.

When you started the experiment what reputations did you give the club?

Also what did you give the players? Were they all the same?

[AB-forever]

What a **** season.

Guillaume Charton and Mathieu Adam are true legends

Combined they conceeded 10 goals in 54 league games!

[IvanTerrible]

Could we please have screenshots of all the current tables for the English leagues? Would be appreciated

[Maviarab]

2 great updates Kip, excellent stuff as always from you

Love the duel nationalities idea as well as the naming of the rival team...sounds good.

As for the Bandits, well, at least Way has gone, too little too late though, he stayed 'way' too long me thinks. The new fella? Well, seems like more of the same over the years but we could be suprised, but I'm certainly not going to hold my breath.

Look forward to the next installment Kip

[ross8]

Another disapointing season.

Looks like we are never going to take that final step.

We need major investment in the squad this summer.

Hope we can win the league or a european trophy, before the 09 experiment begins, which sounds fantastic by the way.

Finally I was just wondering do you know who is the most expensive player in premership history, who bought him and how much for please kip? just curious, thanks.

[Meitheisman]

Originally posted by ross8:

<STRIKE>Looks like we are never going to take that final step.</STRIKE>

Come on next year being our first EPL glory year! \o/

[The Lambs]

Originally posted by Meitheisman:

Come on next year being our first EPL glory year! \o/

Optimism, got to love it :-)

I am feeling, only slightly more confident than last season and I was correct about that being a big pile of dog do!

[Thgilyad]

Great story/experiment. Can't wait for the next update.

[JRHaggs]

Hello...?

I hope Kip is OK.

I'm starting to wonder if he's 'jaded and in need of a rest'.

[Jdontherocks]

Just wanted to say how much I've enjoyed reading through this thread. And as much as we've all become emotionally attached, even dependant on the progress of the Bandits, perhaps it's time to put it to bed? It could be another 50 years before they win anything, and as an England supporter, I get enough anguish already

[Kristian_NOR]

I have spent all night reading this thread, truly an amazing peice of art(icial intelligence).

I was hoping Goalkeeper 1 or 2 would return to the Bandits as a manager, and make the team win the Premiership title as early as in the 2040s. GK 1 should have been hired as manager after he had become an assistant manager. Quite surprising did the lousy board hire Left Back 1 instead. This could have cost the team the title in the late 2040s. Funny though with an original Bandit back as a manager, he did poor and got sacked. Sad indeed.

Question: Have any other teams from the Conference S/N got promoted into Premier League or Championship? It is interesting to know considering Bandits advantage from the start.

[t_hall]

I just spent two days reading back through this post from the time when one Ryan Morley was still in his mid-twenties. I can't believe I've come to the end of it. I would say that this was my first post, but I found one I'd forgotten about from November last year!

Keep it up.