kipfizh

AI Experiment - what would happen if?

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Time for an AI experiment. It's something I've always been interested in - how does the AI respond under extreme circumstances?

Let me explain. I've created a scenario, which is obviously completely unrealistic, but designed to test the boundaries of the game's AI. It is as follows:

Fisher Athletic, the worst ranked side in the Conference South, have been replaced by 'The Bandits', who have been given a tidy bank balance of 25m, a stadium with a capacity of 80k which they regularly fill, and a chairman who as a sugar daddy would look to see the club rise up the divisions. They were also given a top notch youth academy.

They've also had their entire squad replaced by 22 perfect youth players. With 200 CA and PA, but only 1 reputation around the world, they are unheralded masters of the game. 20s in everything, except dirtiness (1) and injury proneness (1), and mentally ambition (1) and controversy (1). They all turn 17 on the day the game starts, with birthdates 1st July 1989. They also love the Bandits as a club, making them the most professional, loyal and talented players you could ever wish to manage. There are two for each position of a standard 4-4-2, and they are all masters of the free role (barring the keepers).

Note: All these players were adjusted by the game on startup - loads of attributes were dropped to around 15, and the CA was dropped to 172-174, although the PA remained at 200, so given that they are all only 17, they have plenty of time to reach their potential. And they're still way too good for Conference South.

So that's one side of the coin - what would happen to club and players?

Then, it was time to add a couple of spanners into the works. Two more players were created along the same lines - 200 CA (adjusted down as before), 200 PA, 20s across the board (adjusted down on startup to 15), 17 year olds.....

...with a few differences. Mentally they were the reverse. Adaptability, determination, loyalty, pressure, professionalism, sportmanship and temperament were all set to 1, with ambition and controversy 20. Dirtiness was raised to 20, and teamwork and work rate dropped to 1. Talented world-beaters these players might be, but they are also complete lazy egotistical wrecks.

In addition, they were given a few preferred moves. Winds up opponents, argues with officials, plays way out of trouble, tries tricks, gets crowd going, dives into tackles, and beats man repeatedly.

The final touch was to block their potential career. You'd expect such players to move around the top clubs with their amazing talent but lack of being able to settle, wouldn't you? Well, what if they hated the top clubs? Both players were set to hate Man Utd, Chelsea, Liverpool, Arsenal, Milan, Inter, Lazio, Roma, Juventus, Bayern, Real Madrid, Barcelona and valencia. The highest reputation clubs they don't hate are Lyon and Porto. Kinda cuts down their career options!

These two players were left unattached. So what would happen?

continued below.....

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So, what would happen?

The club

Would the club, in financial security, keep hold of the players for at least a couple of seasons, having unparalleled success?

Would these starlets give them a successful cup run or two?

Would the players all demand to leave, leaving the club rich but playerless and in deep trouble?

Would their money and profit coming from the ground be wisely invested in more players and a steady climb up the divisions?

Would the money be worthless as no player of talent would join the club?

Would the chairman get power hungry and go through a series of managers?

The good players

Would their loyalty see them stay with the Bandits for years, leading a rise through the divisions?

Would they leave in the first summer or January transfer window for a big club?

When would they become household names?

Just how much would they command in transfer fees?

Who would they go to?

The bad players

Would they overcome their fragile and arrogant mental states to become world beaters?

Would anyone sign such a pair of troublemakers?

Just how many clubs would they get through in their careers?

How many players would end up hating them?

Would they ever go to a big club, or would their hatred of all the clubs hold them back?

How much trouble would they get with officials?

Would they ever get international recognition for the right reasons?

England

All these players are English. How long before they get call ups?

Does the mental attitude affect the call-up - which players get in?

How well would England do with them?

Post playing career

Who would go on to be successful after their playing time was up?

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Playing conditions:

I have started the game, added a new manager who has all 24 players on his shortlist, and is about to start his season-long holiday.

In each summer, I'll post a seasonal update on club, country and players.

My predictions, for what they're worth:

Good Players.

A lot depends on if their reputation is adjusted like their skills are. If the players are instantly wanted by big clubs, I think they'll move within a season. If not, the Bandits might have a glorious couple of seasons first. I reckon the latter, but I expect none of them to be there still past their teens.

Beyond that, I reckon 3-4 clubs each across the three main European leagues, with stunning success and huge transfer fees.

Club

Couple of seasons of quick rise, maybe into the league itself, followed by a slow down once the starlets leave. They'll have money, but money is easily wasted. Maybe a slow rise up the leagues. Maybe they'll be Premiership in 20 years. Maybe they never will. I think league football calls, but lower leagues.

Bad Players

I'm really looking forward to seeing this one. I wonder if they'll ever join a club they hate. I think not, although I'd love to see what'd happen if they did, but I think they'll have good careers at lower clubs, but maybe having 15 clubs in their careers purely by being extreme Anelkas.

England

Surely they'll have glory years when the players are in their mid-20s?

What do you think? Predictions please icon_smile.gif

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icon_redface.gif You have realy thought about this and have far too much time on your hands...

Interesting to say te least, good luck icon_smile.gif

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Originally posted by Jim306:

icon_redface.gif You have realy thought about this and have far too much time on your hands...

Interesting to say te least, good luck icon_smile.gif

What can I say, AI intrigues me. I studied it for a good long time, and it's the part of any game I write that I put the most focus on.

Just a massively complicated area, even the simplest 'intelligence' is frighteningly hard to implement. Makes me impressed every time SI make something that looks realistic.

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if the manager of one of the clubs they hate praises them in the press they the hate will deterioate over time so by the time you get to the big time they will want to join them any way i know cause ive done it in part you will have 30000 offers per season for them wether they love the club or not once the game starts nothings fixed one way to avoid it woud be to give the club its self a high rating

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Very interesting indeed!

My guess is that the the team will be torn apart in about two seasons, this based on my own experiences managing a high rep team in a low division + the AI's tendency to sell talented youth unless they're rather famous from start. Even with ambitions set to 1, my guess is a lot will be snapped up by EPL and champ. league clubs when the good results start coming in. On the other hand, who knows? (You do actually icon_smile.gif)

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Originally posted by Kenntex:

On the other hand, who knows? (You do actually icon_smile.gif)

Not yet I don't, I'll start the test when I get out of work icon_smile.gif

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Funny - that's where I'm sitting too, just waiting for the bell to ring, so I can get home to FM!

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You haven't mentioned adjusting the reputation of "The Bandits". If the club still starts with a poor reputation, the good players will still leave before the clubs reputation can rise to meet the player expectations.

Phrophecies.

1. Many good players to leave in 1st year.

2. Many good players to leave in following year.

3. Absolutely no original players left at "The Bandits" within 5 years.

4. Bad Players to be signed by 2nd teir English clubs but not Elite eg. Spurs.

5. England to do well as normal.

6. Spurs to finish in top 4 positions in Premiership in 3 of first 6 years of game.

7. Man Utd to finish below half way in 2 sesons in first 5 years.

8. Chlesea to not finish in top 4 in Premiership at least 1 season of first 3.

9. England to still get knocked out of competition on penalties.

10. "The Bandits" don't win the 06/07 Conference South title.

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Originally posted by Kenntex:

Funny - that's where I'm sitting too, just waiting for the bell to ring, so I can get home to FM!

Roll on 4pm, I love early finish Fridays icon_smile.gif

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Originally posted by Jimbokav1971:

You haven't mentioned adjusting the reputation of "The Bandits". If the club still starts with a poor reputation, the good players will still leave before the clubs reputation can rise to meet the player expectations.

True - they're still predicted to come 22nd.

9. England to still get knocked out of competition on penalties.

icon_biggrin.gif Love it - nice touch.

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Originally posted by Jimbokav1971:

You haven't mentioned adjusting the reputation of "The Bandits". If the club still starts with a poor reputation, the good players will still leave before the clubs reputation can rise to meet the player expectations.

Phrophecies.

1. Many good players to leave in 1st year.

2. Many good players to leave in following year.

3. Absolutely no original players left at "The Bandits" within 5 years.

4. Bad Players to be signed by 2nd teir English clubs but not Elite eg. Spurs.

5. England to do well as normal.

6. Spurs to finish in top 4 positions in Premiership in 3 of first 6 years of game.

7. Man Utd to finish below half way in 2 sesons in first 5 years.

8. Chlesea to not finish in top 4 in Premiership at least 1 season of first 3.

9. England to still get knocked out of competition on penalties.

10. "The Bandits" don't win the 06/07 Conference South title.

11. "The Bandits" to still not be be playing in the Football League come the start of the 10/11 season icon_eek.gif.

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I predict promotion first season, a relatively good second season and then disaster. Almost all the players will have left and replaced by the normal level of players for that league at best.

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Interesting......good luck! Can you post some screenies for us to see?

Preferably imageshack cause i cant view other websites at work.

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Why an ambition of 1 instead of 20? Because of that the players won't be that good I think.

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Originally posted by Manolito:

Why an ambition of 1 instead of 20? Because of that the players won't be that good I think.

If they had ambition of 20, they would want to leave their lowly club as soon as possible as they want to play on the bigger stage, whereas if you put it at 1 they are more likely to settle playing where they are.

I wonder if this means, if they make it to the bigger teams and leagues if they are uncomfortable there?

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With the bags of money, big full stadium etc I think they're bound for the PL eventually even though their original players will be gone in no time. But I'd guess 15-20 years before it happens.

How they do after they peak as a club is another question. Depends on the AI and how it handles their club reputation among other things.

Meantime you also see biggish clubs sink mysteriously in this game too. Maybe their Abramovitch-esque owner will take the club into receivership after they make the PL then get relegated with a bloated payroll?

Anyhow looking forward to the results.

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Originally posted by gangooly:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Manolito:

Why an ambition of 1 instead of 20? Because of that the players won't be that good I think.

If they had ambition of 20, they would want to leave their lowly club as soon as possible as they want to play on the bigger stage, whereas if you put it at 1 they are more likely to settle playing where they are.

I wonder if this means, if they make it to the bigger teams and leagues if they are uncomfortable there? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Maybe if The Bandits become a really big club, then the players with 1 Ambition will leave to sign for Rushden and Diamonds...

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Originally posted by gangooly:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Manolito:

Why an ambition of 1 instead of 20? Because of that the players won't be that good I think.

If they had ambition of 20, they would want to leave their lowly club as soon as possible as they want to play on the bigger stage, whereas if you put it at 1 they are more likely to settle playing where they are.

I wonder if this means, if they make it to the bigger teams and leagues if they are uncomfortable there? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Interesting point this. I set it to 1 for exactly that reason, to make them more likely to stay where they are and not jump ship early. But there may be negative connotations.

The ambitious idiots might get to the top quicker due to their ambition, but what they do when they get there is another story.

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Interesting proposition there- I am not sure how the AI will cope with this type of scenario as it has failed in some cases where the editor has been used to extreme. Will watch for the results with interest.

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good post, this looks interesting. I wait impatiently for the findings

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There, this thread is now favourited icon_biggrin.gif

I eagerly await your findings, have always wanted to do this myself but could never really be bothered, best of luck to you icon_smile.gif

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Nice little idea you've come up with there

I'm going to predict success on a grand scale - an FA or League Cup final in the first season. Successive promotions for the first 3 seasons at least, retaining around half the squad.

I know it's crazy but if it happens like that then I'll be the only one who predicted it icon_smile.gif

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Originally posted by deadeyedunc:

Nice little idea you've come up with there

I'm going to predict success on a grand scale - an FA or League Cup final in the first season. Successive promotions for the first 3 seasons at least, retaining around half the squad.

I know it's crazy but if it happens like that then I'll be the only one who predicted it icon_smile.gif

^^whs^^

Just so he won't be the only one icon_biggrin.gif

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Originally posted by deadeyedunc:

Nice little idea you've come up with there

I'm going to predict success on a grand scale - an FA or League Cup final in the first season. Successive promotions for the first 3 seasons at least, retaining around half the squad.

I know it's crazy but if it happens like that then I'll be the only one who predicted it icon_smile.gif

Sure won't be the league cup, seeing as how that's only for league teams, not the conference teams, if I remember correctly (been a long while since I managed that far down in England)

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Originally posted by Icelander83:

Sure won't be the league cup, seeing as how that's only for league teams, not the conference teams, if I remember correctly (been a long while since I managed that far down in England)

But surely they're a lock for the FA Trophy - that's my prediction!

Also looking forward to this - if the quality of your subsequent update posts matches the quality of your original posts, this should be a stellar read icon_biggrin.gif

For those following along at home, don't draw the conclusion 'the game is broken' when we get some odd results here - the game isn't broken here, the data is. icon_wink.gif

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Your forgetting a few variables that need to be checked.

1) Team performance is based on the managers ability as well as the players.

if you go on holiday and leave your ASS man in charge, he had better be of a good standard or you will lose too many games.

3) Your chairmans ambition is vitaly import, he will sell those players to the first bidder unless you give him buckets full of ambition.

looking forward to the results.

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Originally posted by The Lambs:

Your forgetting a few variables that need to be checked.

1) Team performance is based on the managers ability as well as the players.

if you go on holiday and leave your ASS man in charge, he had better be of a good standard or you will lose too many games.

3) Your chairmans ambition is vitaly import, he will sell those players to the first bidder unless you give him buckets full of ambition.

looking forward to the results.

The chairman's ambition is low (5), and I'm not in charge of the club, the original manager of Fisher Athletic is, who isn't very good.

I'm not around this evening so the full results will be a little delayed, but here's a taster:

We're in March, the Bandits have lost no players and are screaming away with Conference South. They caused an upset, knocking Wycombe out of the cup before losing to Walsall, and they're in the FA Trophy final as predicted above.

As for the idiots, one joined Newcastle and has twice asked to leave, the other joined Spurs and has so far behaved himself, other than getting sent off on his Premiership debut.

Teams are sniffing around the starlets now, so I guess word got around....the summer could be very interesting. Full report to follow when I get a moment (tomorrow probably) icon_smile.gif

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Originally posted by The Lambs:

Your forgetting a few variables that need to be checked.

1) Team performance is based on the managers ability as well as the players.

if you go on holiday and leave your ASS man in charge, he had better be of a good standard or you will lose too many games.

3) Your chairmans ambition is vitaly import, he will sell those players to the first bidder unless you give him buckets full of ambition.

looking forward to the results.

Where's 2? Or is this some new fangled type of counting?? icon_biggrin.gif

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As for the idiots, one joined Newcastle and has twice asked to leave, the other joined Spurs and has so far behaved himself, other than getting sent off on his Premiership debut.

So at least I got something right icon_rolleyes.gif.

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All the good players will end up at top european clubs with in 2. The most interesting thing will be the bad players. I think they will be transferring a lot. Would be suprised if they lasted more then a year at one team.

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Originally posted by mar©o:

well come on kipfizh.... it's tomorrow and we want updates icon_biggrin.gif

Yeah, hurry up!

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Stop pestering the guy for an update. I'm sure one will be posted when he's good and ready.

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any chance this could be made a sticky at the top of the page as i think it woudl be of interest to alot of people and save us constantly buming this thread all the time.

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No, it doesn't need to be a sticky. It's not any more important than any of the other topics.

You don't need to constantly bump it either as I'm sure kipfizh will post an update when he gets a chance then everyone can discuss the results.

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Originally posted by Ter:

No, it doesn't need to be a sticky. It's not any more important than any of the other topics.

You don't need to constantly bump it either as I'm sure kipfizh will post an update when he gets a chance then everyone can discuss the results.

He wasn't going to constantly bump it.

He was going to constantly bum it.

Which could in itself be a far greater problem. Family forum!

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great idea kipfizh, any chance of uploading the save at some point? just to clarify....you're not actually managing the bandits?

Gotta love those lazy, egotistical, dirty banditos.

maybe they'll sign for Walter Smith? Roll on the good ol' days!

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....constantly buming this thread all the time.

BWWWWAAAAAAHAHHA *GASPS FOR AIR* *COUGHS* bum the thread. that's good.

i predict the dirty Banditos will sign for Rangers under Walter Smith. Along with Gattuso who is clearly Kipfizh's creation come to life.....as is Craig Moore, Jorg Albertz, Fernando Ricksen, Barry Ferguson, Nacho Novo.....i think they must have one of those Universal Soldier cloning machines at Ibrox

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Great idea!

I'll be quite surprised if any of the good players are still at Bandits at the end of the first summer transfer window.

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Originally posted by 352_wingback:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">....constantly buming this thread all the time.

BWWWWAAAAAAHAHHA *GASPS FOR AIR* *COUGHS* bum the thread. that's good.

i predict the dirty Banditos will sign for Rangers under Walter Smith. Along with Gattuso who is clearly Kipfizh's creation come to life.....as is Craig Moore, Jorg Albertz, Fernando Ricksen, Barry Ferguson, Nacho Novo.....i think they must have one of those Universal Soldier cloning machines at Ibrox </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

What you talking about? Im lost

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