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OlaGunna

Considering Citizenship Confusion

75 posts in this topic

Right I have used the search to find related questions on this and have so far not been able to find an answer.

[B]Here's my situation[/B]

Im Charlton in my 2nd season and I was top of the league going into the January transfer window with no need of signing any new players.

But that changed on the 31st of January because my team did not win a single game in that month and has been playing poorly and to add to that 3 of my main starting defence are now injured.
So...
I did a search for a new CB, and found a player who was better than expected.
He is an uncapped player from Brazil so I thought ok no chance of him playing but I checked to see if he had a 2nd nationality which he didnt.
But...
What I did notice was that he was considering taking citizenship of Poland. He played for a Polish club before moving back to Brazil.
So I put in an offer (5mil), got accepted, he also agreed terms.
But...
A work permit was not granted and no chance of appeal because it was only a couple of hours before the end of the transfer window.
But...
I was given the option of signing him to loan out as I have a feeder club in Belgium.

I accepted thinking he'll agree to become Polish and thus be able to play for me.

When the deal went through my fans were overjoyed with his signing.

He however did not take the Polish nationality upon signing.

[B]Now Here's My Questions[/B]

When will he take the 2nd nationality to allow him to play for me?

Is there anything I can do to encourage him to take it?

Would he of taken it straight away to be able to sign for me IF I did not have the Belgium Feeder club?

Do I wait hoping he'll take it because he is currently unable to play?
OR
Do I send him to Belgium on loan until the end of the season hoping that will encourage him to take it?
OR
Do I sell him on and cut my losses on him?

P.S If someone from SI could give us all a clear up on this issue it would be most helpful to all.

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Right I have used the search to find related questions on this and have so far not been able to find an answer.

[B]Here's my situation[/B]

Im Charlton in my 2nd season and I was top of the league going into the January transfer window with no need of signing any new players.

But that changed on the 31st of January because my team did not win a single game in that month and has been playing poorly and to add to that 3 of my main starting defence are now injured.
So...
I did a search for a new CB, and found a player who was better than expected.
He is an uncapped player from Brazil so I thought ok no chance of him playing but I checked to see if he had a 2nd nationality which he didnt.
But...
What I did notice was that he was considering taking citizenship of Poland. He played for a Polish club before moving back to Brazil.
So I put in an offer (5mil), got accepted, he also agreed terms.
But...
A work permit was not granted and no chance of appeal because it was only a couple of hours before the end of the transfer window.
But...
I was given the option of signing him to loan out as I have a feeder club in Belgium.

I accepted thinking he'll agree to become Polish and thus be able to play for me.

When the deal went through my fans were overjoyed with his signing.

He however did not take the Polish nationality upon signing.

[B]Now Here's My Questions[/B]

When will he take the 2nd nationality to allow him to play for me?

Is there anything I can do to encourage him to take it?

Would he of taken it straight away to be able to sign for me IF I did not have the Belgium Feeder club?

Do I wait hoping he'll take it because he is currently unable to play?
OR
Do I send him to Belgium on loan until the end of the season hoping that will encourage him to take it?
OR
Do I sell him on and cut my losses on him?

P.S If someone from SI could give us all a clear up on this issue it would be most helpful to all.

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It's unlikely that he'd want to take Polish nationality. He'd probably have done it by now, if so. And there's no way you can force or encourage him.
A couple of scout reports might have given you a different view.
Scout him once, they'll tell you he's great.
Scout him twice, they'll tell you not to bother because he wouldn't gain a work permit.

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he is considering. doesn't mean he'll take it and i dont think we can persuade either all though that would be nice.

offer a contract and see if that persuades him to take

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Best chance is by sending him on loan.
This takes up a few years (3 i think) and even after that he still might not take the Belgian nationality.
I hope he is young enough otherwise you will have nothing on him.

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I do not know how long he has been considering taking the Polish nationality.

At SWaRFeGA

Scout reports were not done as time was an issue and I believe in taking risks. Also I asked questions for answers and your input did not cover them.

At postal postie

Thank you for your input. I will try the new contract and see what happens.

AT RSCA4Ever

He is currently 24 and too good & old really to have him out on loan for 3 years to get the Belgium nationality and I do have some very talented youngsters out there who will be available before he would be.

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at 24 your best bet is to send him on loan to spain or italy who dont have such stringent WP rules.
if he's truly that good he'll be a rgular in the top divisions there and will get enough rep to be able to get a WP with you.
may only take 6months to a year.

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<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by OlaGunna:

AT RSCA4Ever

He is currently 24 and too good & old really to have him out on loan for 3 years to get the Belgium nationality and I do have some very talented youngsters out there who will be available before he would be. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Considering you paid 5 mil for him, it's your only option imho.
You basically gave the answer yourself in your OP. (look below)
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by OlaGunna:
I was given the option of signing him to loan out as I have a feeder club in Belgium. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

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At postal postie

Thanks for that may consider that in the summer as I only have about 2 hours left in the transfer window and so might not have enough time!

Does anyone else have any suggestions or an explanation on how this part of the game works.

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At RSCA4Ever

I see what your saying but I dont want him for that. I dont want to send him on loan for three years as in my opinion he would get worse out there as he is such a good player.

What I would really like to know is if a player is considering. How long does it take or will he make a decision either way.

Remember he has no 2nd nationality and so a polish passport is a EU passport and im sure in real life a player would take it to play over here.

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Surely this problem totally defeats the object of having work permit feeder clubs?

The only reason you send players there is to gain dual nationality.

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At Filbert Fox

Have you even read what the problem is!!!!

The player in question has been at a European club and has the option to take a EU passport - for Poland.

It does not defeat the object of a work permit feeder club as you sign players to go there who do not have any chance or any option of playing in England. Which in this case is not the case.

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I think the option of the player taking up a 2nd nationality is entirely random. I have seen some take it up almost straight away and some never take it up at all. It would be good if you could encourage players to take the 2nd nationality though some players may not realise that although they're not in your first team plans it would help their cause if they had a european passport.

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At stumostro

Thanks for your input. Will just have to see what happens and see whether he takes it up. But I agree with the should be able to tell them would make things alot more effective and realistic as well

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Right Im off to go play that game now to see what he decides and I'll let you all know what happens.

But if any1 has an opinion or even a answer to the questions asked or an explanation to this ongoing problem then post it on here as we all would like your input

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<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by OlaGunna:
At Filbert Fox

Have you even read what the problem is!!!!

The player in question has been at a European club and has the option to take a EU passport - for Poland.

It does not defeat the object of a work permit feeder club as you sign players to go there who do not have any chance or any option of playing in England. Which in this case is not the case. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yep you're right there.

I only had a quick scan as I'm at work and just got a little alarmed that my 4 prospects on loan in Poland would be a waste of time.

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Hi Guys!

im also having this kind of problem im currently in my second season with f.c Barcelona and your only allowed a maximum of 3 non eu players in your squad, heres the problem i have rafinha marcelo breno matias fernandez and aguero who are all classed as foreign
aguero could get citizneship but hasnt
marcelo could get citizenship but hasnt
if these two would just accept citizenship then everything would be great but they havent and i really need all 5 of them in my squad (not so much breno)

can anyone help or tell me when they are likely to accept citizenship?

thanks

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I think this could be considered a bug at worst, unrealistic at best.

If the player is considering taking Polish second nationality yet agrees a contract with you knowing full well he won't be able to get a work permit until he accepts the second nationality then surely if he wanted to play for you he would do so. No player would sign for a new club just sit on the bench when they simply need to accept the second nationality available to them in order to play.

At the same time I firmly believe that in this instance you as a manager should have a say in it. I.e you should agree to give them the contract they want on the condition that they accept their Polish 2nd nationality so that they can actually play for you. It's rediculous when paying someone thousands of pounds per week that you have no influence over whether they take the second nationality.

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This is the one part of the game that is severely flawed. Players should be pressured to take up a second nationality or in fact to play for another nation. It happens IRL all the time so why is this not in the game??
The ideal scenario would be where a player will be told "Take up citizenship or you have no future at the club", he will then take up that citizenship (if eligible) or not (being left to transfer). IRL, Roberto Carlos did this (freeing up a foreign player space at Madrid), Gonsalez(liverpool) did the same in order to complete his move. On the opposite side, Kanoute did this with Mali (French/Mali) and I remember some English player choosing Jamaica in 98 in order to play at the World Cup.
This should really be in the game. Cmon SI, sort it out!

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I believe if he wants to take up his Polish nationality he would have to be resident in Poland. Loan him to a Polish team and he should get it in a couple of months.

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<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by chopper99:
I think this could be considered a bug at worst, unrealistic at best.

If the player is considering taking Polish second nationality yet agrees a contract with you knowing full well he won't be able to get a work permit until he accepts the second nationality then surely if he wanted to play for you he would do so. No player would sign for a new club just sit on the bench when they simply need to accept the second nationality available to them in order to play.

At the same time I firmly believe that in this instance you as a manager should have a say in it. I.e you should agree to give them the contract they want on the condition that they accept their Polish 2nd nationality so that they can actually play for you. It's rediculous when paying someone thousands of pounds per week that you have no influence over whether they take the second nationality. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

That's the point I was trying to make.

Has this been raised on the bugs forum anybody know?

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I've had a player in the Spanish league that was considering Spanish citezenship for about two months, maybe just less than that. He was a Columbian regen, and I needed him to take it or be consigned to the B or C team as I didn't have enough foreign player slots to accomodate him otherwise.

I agree that it's strange that a manager can have no influence over a player choosing a nationality or whether to take citezenship. In real life a manager would be furious with a player if he refused citezenship which would allow him to play. Especially if about two weeks later he started to complain about lack of games.

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I would assume that while the Polish government would be willing to give him citizenship while he was living (and working) in the country, they would be unlikely to when he wasn't.
In addition, considering citizenship doesn't say he will take it.

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<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by OlaGunna:
At RSCA4Ever

I see what your saying but I dont want him for that. I dont want to send him on loan for three years as in my opinion he would get worse out there as he is such a good player.

What I would really like to know is if a player is considering. How long does it take or will he make a decision either way.

Remember he has no 2nd nationality and so a polish passport is a EU passport and im sure in real life a player would take it to play over here. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

You could try what postal postie recommended.
But do take in mind that when he doesn't get enough play time he will not gain enough in reputation to get that WP.

You really can forget about Poland, what grahamf and Nobby_McDonald said is true, he does have to live and work there on the moment he applies for one, which is legally like irl.
What you can try is loaning him out to a Polish team and hope he will apply then.

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The funny thing is, if you had a Polish feeder club, he probably would have become a Polish citizen on the first day of your loan there!

But now instead you have to wait for him to become Belgian. Lame.

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At Chas (Psyatika)

Yea I think you could be right, he would of got 1 straight away

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i have had players considering citizenship for years (eg. from start of game to 2011), these players are considering citizenship of the country that they are currently playing in but never do decide, I'm guessing the majority of them do not take it up due to caps (full or youth) with their original country, I could be wrong but thats what i've always put it down to [img]http://community.sigames.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_razz.gif[/img]

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[B]An Update[/B]

I decided to take the main advice given and that was to send him on loan to my Belgium feeder clu for the rest of the season.

[B]End of Season (July)[/B]

He didn't make a decision on taking the Polish passport and is still considering it.

But here's something interesting that I did find out. I sent him on loan to Belgium on the 31st of January and he returned on the 24th of June I think.
Now how many days do you think he earned towards getting this passport from Brussels. Was it just under 5 months of the year that he was there. Well the answer to that is NO.

He was given a full year towards it, thats right 365 days towards that new passport goal.

Now this just makes alot more new questions and still gives no answers.

Did SI do this on purpose?

Does this mean we dont have to send players on loan there from July but only have to send them there in January just to get this passport?

If thats the case then they would only of been there to earn this passport in theory for only 14.5 months and that is a lot less than a full 3 years even tho that is over the 3 season period but you could keep them at your club to train at better facilites (so when thet do become available they are of a higher standard) before going on loan there just to get the required in game passport qualifing period.

[B]Explanation Needed[/B]

What we need is a explanation on how the considering citizenship works and what factors increase the liklyhood of it being taken or infact decrease it.

Also we need to know the exact rules SI have programed in for this 2nd nationality to come into place and the rules regarding it as from what I have seen are not what is in the guidelines previously told or shown.

So if someone from SI could give an explanation it would help us all out.

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At Vinton

I see what you are saying but my player in quesion is uncapped at all levels but is still considering, so that does not fall under your explanation

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<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by OlaGunna:
At Vinton

I see what you are saying but my player in quesion is uncapped at all levels but is still considering, so that does not fall under your explanation </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I was referring to players who play in the country of the considered citizenship mind, I believe that your problem is, as posted earlier, that the player is playing outside the country of consideration

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At Vinton

Yes I see that. But People have said that they have seen players considering for years another nationality and then taking it, being another country from where they are playing.

I'd think we'd all like to know the explanation on how this part of the game works. So come on SI tell us

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<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Filbert Fox:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by chopper99:
I think this could be considered a bug at worst, unrealistic at best.

If the player is considering taking Polish second nationality yet agrees a contract with you knowing full well he won't be able to get a work permit until he accepts the second nationality then surely if he wanted to play for you he would do so. No player would sign for a new club just sit on the bench when they simply need to accept the second nationality available to them in order to play.

At the same time I firmly believe that in this instance you as a manager should have a say in it. I.e you should agree to give them the contract they want on the condition that they accept their Polish 2nd nationality so that they can actually play for you. It's rediculous when paying someone thousands of pounds per week that you have no influence over whether they take the second nationality. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

That's the point I was trying to make.

Has this been raised on the bugs forum anybody know? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I have raised it as I have seen players waiting over 3 years whilst "considering citizenship". I just haven't got round to loading a file.

I think it is seriously flawed - a nice addition that hasn't been tested properly.

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<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by OlaGunna:
...

He was given a full year towards it, thats right 365 days towards that new passport goal.
...
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

It could be argued that he worked in Belgium for the Belgian club even in the off season. Although the fact that he has returned to your club doesn't indicate this.

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sorry to change the conversation but
one of my player's (kun aguero) wont take spainish nationality even on the days it says that he is already eligible
i am confused any help please.

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At MIKEYL

We are all confused and as SI is not giving anyone an answer then no one will know how this works internally

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This topic is interesting me as I've had 4 youngsters at my belgian feeder club for 2 years now. They'll be eligible for dual nationality soon.

Fingers crossed this isn't yet another problem with the current game.

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I'm spain manager in 2015 watched a match between seville and real. couple of days later 2 brazilians and an argentinian for seville took spanish passport, may just be a coincidence?

I picked 2 of them for my squad and they were great.
Thiaggo got 2 goals

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it will probabley along time take him to consider the only problem is i am only allowed to have 3 forgeniers in my squad and i have bought alot of young south americans which i was hoping they would all take spainish citzensip so i could play them in my squad

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At Filbert Fox

I've found if your player needs a work permit and you have sent them on loan to a feeder club to get a 2nd nationality ive not seen it not taken straight away. So there shouldn't be a problem with that

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At Flanno7hi

That is a very interesting coincidence, I've not heard of that one before but it does add to the msytery of this whole thing.

Now all I have to hope for is for the Polish manager to watch a game when my player in question is playing, would help a huge ammount

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sorry to change the conversation
i have tried puting some of my players out on loan but no clubs will take them and most of them are wonderkids and are south american but there is one player that i bought who is ukrainen and its says that he is forgienin because the spainish first divison only allows 3 forgeners i had to pick more experinced players already who had not picked up spainish citzenship yet

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this ukrainen player who i have just signed and it takes 10 years to gain spainish citzenship

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At MIKEYL

Try sending them to a spanish feeder club say a division lower than yours, you must have 1?

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At MIKEYL

Yes it will take that long because he does not speak spanish as a 1st language and so dos not get the option of the shorter time frame.

Send him out to say Belgium if you have a feeder team there as that takes 3 years

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i dont have a feeder who is from belguim and i have asked lots of times but it only comes up with either french clubs or english clubs

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I'm having the same problem, but slightly different. I'm managing Hearts in the 2010-2011 season and I signed Shevchenko on a free from Chelsea. My only problem is he didnt get a work permit! I have a Bulgarian feeder club for nationality but it would take three years, and hes already 33! Hes considering Italian citezenship, but doesnt look like he'll take it any time soon.

Any ideas?

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unfortunely you just might have to wait or try this putting shevchenkco on loan to the bulgarian feeder club for 7 days then call him back it worked for me once

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I've just signed John Obi Mikel from Chelsea because he's considering a WP. Had him about a month now but still no decision made... anyone know on average how long it takes to make a decision either way?

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To Olagunna

Try arranging a tour of Poland against the top teams there. This might encourage the Poland boss to go to at least one of the games.

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