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StormenDK

Tutoring FM11, new tests

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As most of us have found, the tutoring functionality have changed in FM11 .. and even between the various patches. So I have been messing around with a few tests to see if I could figure out how the new system works (thanks again to SI for absolutely NO documentation on this feature).

link to my FM10 tutoring thread (includes info on Personalities and Media Handling Types): http://community.sigames.com/showthread.php/213536-Tutoring-results-test

Things we know:

Tutoring prerequisites:

- Youngster's age has to be below 22 now, to be tutored. This seems to be the case for both outfield players and goalies.

- Tutors have to be at least 24 years old. Though in some instances 22 is enough, as reported by others.

- CA have no impact (in 11.2) on who can tutor who. A Tutor with CA 20 can tutor a Youngster with CA 100, if other requirements are met.

- Tutor has to have higher reputation values than Youngster. The editor uses three values: Current, Home and World. If even one of these for the Youngster is equal to or higher than the Tutor, tutoring is not possible.

- Tutor has to have same or higher squad status than the Youngster.

Tutoring:

- Tutoring still takes 180 days to complete.

- The first selected option in the private chat with the Tutor have NO effect on the tutor's attitude. He always accepts with the same phrase. This might be related to personality. My Light-hearted tutors seem to accept every time.

- The response of the Youngster seems to be pretty random. Sometimes he accepts right away, other times (under the exact same conditions) he refuses.

- The persuasion options if the youngster refuses at first are also a bit random. Sometimes they work, sometimes not. More tests needed.

- The result news item after tutoring is ended is also different now. Benefited and Appreciate, no longer means that PPMs are transferred

- "Look up to' option (3rd.) seems to not transfer PPMs. More testing needed.

- Appreciate and Benefited results make Tutor one of the Youngster favored personnel.

- Some PPMs seem to transfer more often than others. In my tests Move in Channels and Argues

were much more commonly transferred than Plays One-Twos.

NB: Some of this might not be totally accurate, and might be updated in the future as I discover more

Things we don't know (yet):

- Are there different outcomes for the 4 different tutoring options??

- What are the different effects of the persuasion options??

- If Appreciated and Benefited end results are no guarantee that PPMs are transferred, then what is the difference??

My tests:

Now so far I have done a few tests on the various tutoring options. What I did was, I created 4 Tutors with 15s in all tutoring related stats, same age, same squad status, same CA/PA, same reputation and same 3 PPMs (Move in Channels, Argues with Officials and Plays One-Twos). I also created 4 identical Youngsters. 9s in tutoring stats, same age, CA/PA and reputation, and no PPMs.

I then ran 5 test runs with each pairing.

Tutor A/Youngster A: used 1st. tutoring option I feel he could benefit from your experience

Tutor B/Youngster B: used 2nd. option I think he can learn a lot from you

Tutor C/Youngster C: used 3rd. option he looks up to you as a person and a player

Tutor D/Youngster D: used 4th. option I feel you could really help him kick-start his career

Next I will try figure out if there is a pattern to the persuasion options.

The results are here: http://dl.dropbox.com/u/2690754/FM/FM11_Tutoring.xls

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- Tutors have to be at least 22 years old.

Seems to be 24 in my save as well, as someone already pointed out. However, my 22 year old club captain was able to tutor. Not quite sure if it's the captaincy and/or key status and/or something else that effects this.

Good work:thup:

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Seems to be 24 in my save as well, as someone already pointed out. However, my 22 year old club captain was able to tutor. Not quite sure if it's the captaincy and/or key status and/or something else that effects this.

Good work:thup:

Thanks guys ...I wasn't sure, and too lazy to start up a game to check ;) ... I'll update the original post

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It's rare I get the opportunity to tutor lads. I made it with Ballack/Bender, but that was after suggestion from backroom.

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Very nice to see you're back into the tutoring research stormen! I found your previous thread about tutoring for fm10 (or was it fm09?) yesterday and thought it was brilliant.

I'm still wondering about certain aspects. For instance, do the pupil and tutor have to speak a same language for the tutoring to work well (would be logical IRL, so theres a good chance it matters in the game aswell). Also, I had Drogba tutor Lukaku. Lukaku imroved by an INCREDIBLE amount in 180 days due to Drogba's tutoring. Now I noticed Lukaku had me as favoured personnel after the tutoring, so I suppose that's because he is gratefull I let Drogba tutor him? Also Lukaku already had Drogba as favoured personnel before the tutoring, so maybe this increases the chance that the pupil benefits a lot from the tutor? And does the position of tutor and pupil make any difference, ie. will a natural MC tutor improve a young natural MC better then for instance a ML or AMR or DMC tutor that is accomplished or at least decent as a MC?

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Good to see you are experimenting StormenDK, your thread was last year was great. I will follow this one closely.

I am likely to have some free time in the following month, so if can do something to help a little bit, feel free to ask :thup:

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I'm very glad to see this. I will be following any developments very closely regarding tutoring discoveries. I'm very upset with SI for not explaining how certain thing like tutoring work in FM11.

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And does the position of tutor and pupil make any difference, ie. will a natural MC tutor improve a young natural MC better then for instance a ML or AMR or DMC tutor that is accomplished or at least decent as a MC?

Amongst the many flaws in the tutoring system , this is another anomaly. Apart from possibly picking up a position-affected PPM, tutoring affect the tutee's personality attributes only. So why does it matter that the tutor has the same position? For example, Beckham might tutor a young winger (e.g. Lennon) to improve his crossing, but not in FM. I guess Harry's hoping Beckham's presence will improve the determination, professionalism, ambition, temperament and sportsmanship of many young players, regardless of their position.

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Thank you for this research.

It seems like 2nd. option I think he can learn a lot from you can produce good results without much variance.

Has it been determined that these 9 mental attributes are the only ones impacted by tutoring?

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Useful, thanks for this.

And also, you can put the .xml file on Google Docs (docs.google.com) and it will be online, no need for downloading (perhaps someone doesn't have Office). ;)

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when i've downloaded it were do i put it. are open it with?

With Microsoft Excel probably ..

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Thought I read in another thread that the 4 options don't vary from each other. Would be really interesting to see if there is any difference though.

Atm what I do is choose options based on the tutors stature as players. So obv, the bigger players I will choose look up to, and the not so established players, learn from them.

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Hi has anyone encountered personality clashes that lead to the tutoring ending like in previous versions? I haven't in all my tutoring attempts, wondering if this feature if removed so we don't have to try to look for matching personalities.

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Yes, it still happens randomly. Matching personalities is all ******** as if you have matching personalities, you wouldn't even need tutoring to mold them into a better person.

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But what if I have a Great Youngster who has the status "1st team" or "keyplayer".

Do I have to "upgrade" the tutors status to make him tutor the youngster?

F.eks. I brought in the older Lampard.

He is still good but due to age his speed isnt good enough to hold a 1st team place.

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What benefits does "I feel you could really help him kick-start his career" have that the other options don't give?

Would be interesting to know if anyone has different opinions on this, or is everyone just randomly choosing between the options cause it makes no difference anyway?

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As im 5 seasons in im thinking about signing great players who are getting on abit throwing them in my reserves and just using them to tutor, would this work?

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As im 5 seasons in im thinking about signing great players who are getting on abit throwing them in my reserves and just using them to tutor, would this work?

I do that all the time and it works a treat!!! 32-35 yr old players with the high stats in determination, work-rate, professional and ambition.

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Can a newly signed veteran be assigned to tutor straight away or does he have to be at your club for a certain amount of time before you can set him to tutor?

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Can a newly signed veteran be assigned to tutor straight away or does he have to be at your club for a certain amount of time before you can set him to tutor?

Yes he can, just needs to have higher reputation and squad status than the trainee.

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I really like the input from SI on this topic. I spent the night looking in every dark corner of the Internet for an explanation on the 4 options and I didn't find anything. So if anyone has any idea it will be appreciated.

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I do that all the time and it works a treat!!! 32-35 yr old players with the high stats in determination, work-rate, professional and ambition.

those attributes all sould be like 15? or more like 17+

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I would agree about finding oldies with determination, but work rate doesn't really transfer over to the tutees. It makes sense though that the higher the work rate, the more likely the player is to have a better personality

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I really like the input from SI on this topic. I spent the night looking in every dark corner of the Internet for an explanation on the 4 options and I didn't find anything. So if anyone has any idea it will be appreciated.

I think many of us would love some input from SI on this (and a´many other things). But I doubt it will happen. We just have to reverse-engineer this until someone figures out how it works.

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fabregas tutors he is not yet 24 but he is captain

It seems that the captain can always tutor, no matter his age.

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I would agree about finding oldies with determination, but work rate doesn't really transfer over to the tutees. It makes sense though that the higher the work rate, the more likely the player is to have a better personality
I think many of us would love some input from SI on this (and a´many other things). But I doubt it will happen. We just have to reverse-engineer this until someone figures out how it works.

I can't find the link as I don't remember which SI bod posted it but I'm fairly certain I remember an SI employee responding with respect to this. I am working from a hazy memory but the gist of it was that the options relate to how the players perceive themselves, how the players perceive each other and the general personality of the two.

*Just found the thread/links

http://community.sigames.com/showthread.php/34212-Official-Forum-FAQ-The-Answers-to-all-of-Your-Questions!?p=4412108&viewfull=1#post4412108

http://community.sigames.com/showthread.php/34212-Official-Forum-FAQ-The-Answers-to-all-of-Your-Questions!?p=4412948&viewfull=1#post4412948

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I can't find the link as I don't remember which SI bod posted it but I'm fairly certain I remember an SI employee responding with respect to this. I am working from a hazy memory but the gist of it was that the options relate to how the players perceive themselves, how the players perceive each other and the general personality of the two.

*Just found the thread/links

http://community.sigames.com/showthread.php/34212-Official-Forum-FAQ-The-Answers-to-all-of-Your-Questions!?p=4412108&viewfull=1#post4412108

http://community.sigames.com/showthread.php/34212-Official-Forum-FAQ-The-Answers-to-all-of-Your-Questions!?p=4412948&viewfull=1#post4412948

Thanks for the links ... but at least the first one only relates to FM10, not FM11, where there are now 4 options (and again) no documentation on what they do or how to use them :)

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Thanks for the links ... but at least the first one only relates to FM10, not FM11, where there are now 4 options (and again) no documentation on what they do or how to use them :)

Sorry mate, never checked the date. For some reason I had it in my head that I'd read that recently. One would assume that the core design principle is probably still the same but you never know with SI ;) Never had a need for the manual but just out of curiosity checked the online one and it doesn't even mention tutoring, which is downright unprofessional.

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so what is the list of attributes that are affected when tutoring.

I know they can learn the tutors PPM's but can they also increase their crossing finishing etc.

Id appreciate it if you could list the attributes that can go up when tutoring thanks.

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so what is the list of attributes that are affected when tutoring.

I know they can learn the tutors PPM's but can they also increase their crossing finishing etc.

Id appreciate it if you could list the attributes that can go up when tutoring thanks.

No the only thing tutoring affects is the transfer of PPMs (which doesn't occur all the time) and personality attributes like Professionalism, Ambition, Temperament, Pressure etc. Most of those attributes are hidden (actually all of them except Determination). The only way you can get an idea about them is looking at the player personality and his media handling type.

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@ StormenDK - Is there going to be an FM12 thread similar to this?

Thanks.

I don't think much has changed in this department since FM11. The abilities that can improve by tutoring are still the same (personality traits which includes determination as the only visible attribute and PPM's). Maybe they changed the requirements for tutoring a little but the gist should be the same.

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I don't think much has changed in this department since FM11. The abilities that can improve by tutoring are still the same (personality traits which includes determination as the only visible attribute and PPM's). Maybe they changed the requirements for tutoring a little but the gist should be the same.

Ok, Thanks :thup:

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Means the options available are purely cosmetic then? Any option is alright and has no significant difference?

It could be that the "Mentor off the pitch" option doesn't transfer PPM's while the other one does but this is purely speculation on my part. I just think it would make sense that if someone gets mentored off the pitch he wouldn't pick up any preferred moves from the tutor.

It could also have some influence on how easy the tutoring player or the tutored player accepts the tutoring but this is again speculation on my part. I just like to chose the one that makes sense. If I have an old player that rarely gets any game time and isn't that much better than the player he is going to tutor I will likely chose the "mentor off the pitch" option. If I have a young lad that will likely replace my star striker when he gets old and will fill the same role I will chose the other option as I wan't him to take in every aspect of his game and learn as much as possible. I also take a look at any undesired PPM's that I want to avoid. Again just chose the option that makes most sense in the situation and the game will probably reward you for your good thinking.

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