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MiNiMaL_FuSS 07 V4 || The home of the 4-4-2 || Updated Regularly!


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Fuss,

I tested your tactic (V2) on the pre-patch game and it worked well and now it seems to work with the patch also.

I thought I read somewhere in this thread that you used to use a diamond 4-4-2 in FM06. I used a 4-4-2 diamond wide in FM06 as well as FM05 and it doesn't seem to be effective in FM07 for two reasons:

1. I typically played my backline higher up with the diamond and in FM07 it is complete disaster as you get murdered on through balls.

2. The AMC in the diamond in FM07 seems to get lost and is completely ineffective, at least with the teams I used it with (Chicago Fire and Auxerre).

I just wanted to thank you for doing the work on this tactic. I am in my 30's and frankly do not have tons of hours to spend on trial and error with tactics. I am a "make the players fit the system" manager as I find it fits me.

One quick question.......has anybody ever had GOOD success employing a 3-back system in FM06 or FM 07? I never seem to pull it off myself and don't see many tactics or here that do.

Thank you again!

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I've been using this tactic with Man Utd with a new game after patching

Early on it was pretty shockingly bad - drew 3-3 with Newcastle away, beat Tottenham 5-4 at home (!), then lost 2-0 to Reading at home. Also got some really nasty injuries in that time - van der Sar slipped disc (3months), Rooney broken collarbone (on top of two sendings off in the tottenham match - scored winning goal with 8 players) and also lost Scholes, Giggs, and Kuszczak over shorter periods (I had to sign Niemi as GK cover)

However, after those really bad 3 games, it's turned around and the tactic is really working properly - just shows you have to give it time.

At first, Rooney was just amazing being fed off Saha (target man), got 7 goals in first two friendlies, but after his injury I was lucky enough to get Smith back from his broken leg, and he's been doing very well. Also bought Nani, who has been very good.

4th match was a 3-0 win against Red Star Belgrade - Smith with all the goals and Saha with the assists, then the 5th match was at home against Liverpool - I won 5-1. Saha got 4, and Smith got one. I've tweaked it a little bit because Carrick isn't much of a tackler, and a bit of encouragement has made Saha lethal on the counter - he'll get a high ball in from Ronaldo or Nani, then he's clear for a run onto goal.

Just goes to show - give this tactic time, and it will work wonders. Nice one FUSS icon_smile.gif

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hey Fuss...when are u going to post your latest tatic for the patched version..you said you will post it...your tactics are too good man..with newcastle...i kept antoine sibierski as the target man...27 goals forst season..17 MoM..11 assists..won the league and the euro cup with v3..thanks a lot..you are a GOD..keep rocking..

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As always no promises on a release date guys.

I'm pretty snowed under with Uni work right now, and havnt really had time to play with the patch yet. I head back home for the christmas break in a couple of weeks, so i imagine i'll release it then.

Until then theres a couple of small changes you can make to V3 (not tested by me though! recommened by one of my testers):

-Removed backwads arrows on DR/DL = these are apprently TOO effective with the patch n play people onide now.

-Reduce striker mentality a little = getting caught offside seems a more common occurence since the patch.

-Dependant on your team and who your playing try playing with the tempo and mentality.

Till later.

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currently using westham and testing out your tactic, here are the results;

lost 3-1 arsenal @ away

lost 1-0 portsmouth @ home

drew 1-1 everton @ home

lost 2-0 wigan @ away

won 1-0 plymouth @ away on extra time. (plymouth 12shots, WH 14shots)

won 2-1 man utd @ home

drew 3-3 celta @ away

lost 1-0 fulham @ away

not too impressed... the tactic didnt do much for me.. icon_frown.gif also, on sidenote, it gave me plenty of red cards icon_frown.gif

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<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by FuSS:

well if ud read the thread u would have seen how to stop so many cards and how to mold the tacic t your own team...btw thanks for the frightningly useful comment. icon13.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

lol, sorry about that; i did tweak it to mould around my team... i tried games with my tweaked version and it got slightly better, instead of 4L 2D 2W, i had 2L 5D 1W... hmm, not much better, but at least i lose less games...

might be due to the patch, but i didn't intend any ill thoughts icon_smile.gif sorry if i created any misunderstanding

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Let me know what team, in what league, you're playing, and your startin XI. And we'll try to help you out icon_smile.gif

But i havnt done any testingwiht the patch yet, so its early days yet really...

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Hi Fuss,

I still keep getting dragged back to V3 when my own tactic goes boobs up.

V3 is still working great for me with tweeks listed above, I still leek goals, but a win is a win is a win.

Got a night of FM while the missus watches X-factor. So I'll let you know if it changes.

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I've been using a mixture of V3 and an adapted version of V3 as a 4-1-4-1 and I'm having some success post patch. Came second in the premiership with Ipswich and won the FA cup & champions League, conceded the least goals and scored the second most. Although I can't catch Chelsea who have won 3 x in a row I'm able to consistently put together good runs of results. Here's some things that have helped me!

1. keeping the back arrows on the full backs against quick strikers has worked for me, especially when I tweak the defensive line a couple down from the middle

2. Starting games with a different formation, usually 5-4-1 or 4-1-4-1 and switching at the start lulls some teams into playing a little mor adventurously allowing me to score

3. Against towering strikers I play a very high defensive line with the full backs back arrows off and the offised box ticked, this has proved effective in stopping Drogba and Carew who'd always scored against me

4. Playing two big men up front has also proved effective against teams who defend deep and allows lots of knock downs for the midfielders to feed off of.

5. Setting my goalie distribution to my target man has really helped when playing one up front.

Hope these are helpful icon_smile.gif

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V3 is the latest and best version (or so i believe) although some argue that they still prefer V2.

All the tactics are on fmdownloads in FM07 tactics section.

--------------------

ipswichjon - if find playign only a single man upfront extremly effective, and if you were in the game just to win its probably a good way to go. However im a sucker for the old 442 and just cant seem to abandon it.

Im glad ur doing so well with Ipswich (*cough* I won the prem with Norwich *cough*)

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Im glad ur doing so well with Ipswich (*cough* I won the prem with Norwich *cough*)

Seething icon_wink.gif

I only play one up away from home against big teams like Barcelona, Man Utd etc after we've gone in front, I don't like to play one up as I think 2 up will always give you more of a chance of winning.

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Your download file says "unknown file". I don't know how to extract it to install it. I can only use the winrar system. Please can someone tell me how to open the downloaded file. Bearing in mind that I am not pc literate. The instructions need to be easily understood. Kindest regards.

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<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by oescus:

Your download file says "unknown file". I don't know how to extract it to install it. I can only use the winrar system. Please can someone tell me how to open the downloaded file. Bearing in mind that I am not pc literate. The instructions need to be easily understood. Kindest regards. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

The files you download are not compressed (thats what winrar or winzip do). When you click on the link the file that downloads should have the extension ".tac"

That means it is a tactic file.

Make sure you downlad it into your tactics folder which is found under:

\My Documents\Sports Interactive\Football Manager 2007\tactics

You can find the my documents link when you click the green start button at the bottom right of your desktop.

If you save the file there, you will be able to access the tactic in game by going to your teams tactics and clicking the tactics button, then choose the archived tactics option (which should be the bottom choice of the drop down menu.

Click on the MiNiMaL_FuSS 07 tactic and you'll be in business, do not forget to drag your target man into the target man box.

Hope that is basic enough for you.

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Grafton,

I have your guide as an open text file in note pad, just to remind my goldfish memory to do the prematch tweeks.

Have you ever tried "swap position" commands for your AML and AMR? If they can play in each others position its a great tweek.

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Does anybody think its possible to shift the 2 wide midfielders up a notch, and convert the non target man striker to a defensive midfielder? This would basically be a 4-3-3.

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It doesn't seem to work quite as good after the patch I'm afraid. icon_frown.gif

I've had some good but also some abysmal results after I installed the patch, like 0-5 against ManU (I was 1st at the table, they were 4th) and now in my latest game, Preston (14th at the table) totally dominated me for the whole match and ended up winning 2-0..

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hello guys..

i've been reading this thread since november and ive decided i mite give a go with this tactic.. only as a platform.

Fuss's usage of target man really fits to my playing ideas. I just got fm 07 yesterday, i decide to use it with Celtic (aim : achieve what we won once decades ago.. the holy grail.. 'european cup'.)

I'll report back whats happening.

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<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by The Lambs:

Does need a bit of tweeking with the patch, I am still experimenting, but I think it the main change is to the mentality slider.

I'll let you know when I get a break through. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Ignore all that rubbsh, works fine as is and fantastic if you use Grafton83's thread as a tweeking guide.

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FuSS,

V3 of your tactic was not working too well for me in 7.00.

BUT after the patch to 7.01 my team are playing excellent, riding high at the top of the Championship with Leeds at the start of the game with no bought players.

Best to let you know, will test with other teams!

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It seems to be working 4 me after patch.

After a horrid start (brough in 11 players, took ages to gel and no win in first 10 games) I finsihed a solid 8th with Middlesbrough in my first season and FA cup finalists.

So far in second season I only have one defeat in 13 games including away wins at Chelsea and Tottenham and looking good for champs league.

I have got a lot of players for the future and my chairman has sold Downing and Guardado behind my back so the squad isn't too strong so it's a good achievment.

I've found half time changes vital tho. AI often swaps their centre backs and strikers around at halt time so I adjust mine accordingly to match up quick/tall players to best affect.

Changing formation also seems important. If AI is chasing the game they often go 4 up front. I then make sure my full backs have forward runs set to rarely so they don't get caught out of position and bring in a DMF to sit in front. Seems to work well.

I also go in to games with formation set to 541 and then change it pre match. As others have suggested this seems to reduce the amount of teams setting up so defensively against you.

Having a good target man is key to this formation. He's got to be big, strong and good in the air and the second striker seems to need pace above all else to get on to the flick on's. (I have Alan Smith and Theo Walcott at the moment, looking good together.)

I have also found increasing the width helpful. As this formation depends upon getting crosses in, it makes sense. Since I have done this I have even started to concede less goals, i seem to have more of the ball now giving the opposition less chances.

After originally conceeding too many goals, I made a few changes to the back line. All 4 defenders are on direct passing and away from home I always take forward runs off my full backs. This seems to erradicate errors at the back that lead to goals and with a deep defensive line makes me hard to penetrate (no jokes please).

Anyway, just thought I'd share what my findings have been. As I said, I think the key element is keeping a close eye on the AI formation and changing it accordinly each time so you don't leave any gaps or are over run anywhere and change your individual marking settings too.

Hope this is helpful.

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Lol for those struggeling the tweakign thread is helping out alot of people.

And if it was school work i wouldnt care guys, unfortunately its my dissertation for my degree. So it actually matters :p

I'm off for crimbo in about a week and a half, so your wating till then chaps.

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Its all gone horribly Wrong !!!

I started using V.3 in my third season with Ipswich. I managed to get them in the prem at the first time of asking but struggled the following season just about escaping relegation, used V.3 the following season and finished 9th ( very pleased ), however...just started season 4 with V.3 and at the moment ive plaued 13 and one 1 !!!!! im bottom of the Prem and 5 points adrift, doesnt seem to matter what I do to the tatic I just cant win...Any ideas people ??? other than jump ship icon_confused.gif

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FusS whats your dissertation on, you know you can buy them on ebay for a fiver these days.

Alternativly i have one that could count as a media, soiology or crimininolgy dissertation or a business information management disseration.

The best soloution would be to do your diss on fm07 and developing a V4 tactic, can't you wing that one, pleaseeee!

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Hi Fuss I'm a great fan of your tactics. I used from susie and congratulations, you're on to a winner. Could I please have permission to post this up in my new site, FM-Offside?

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Ah ha, I seem to have turned the corner using some little tweaks ( cheers Grafton83 ).

I note that a few people are having a problem with red cards.. Snap... I have a look back through the thread but cant see any advice on it, if its there what page is it on and if its not... anyone got any ideas. Cheers folks.

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H! - As long as I'm given full credit and the names kept then sure.

Grafton83 - Psychology....yup kids ur tactic maker is a shrink.

Darbs - Reduce the tackling in the positions that seem to be gettign the most cards.

joebailey - I have more than one mate :p

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<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">After originally conceeding too many goals, I made a few changes to the back line. All 4 defenders are on direct passing </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Joe, they are set to direct as standard, do you mean all the way to the right (postion 20) on the passing slider, its currently set about 3/4 of the way (position 14)

I find that my pass completion rate is horrid for my full backs away from hom, I have to switch to short passing to get any improvement in completion.

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Cleon did a good thread on reading the after match stats and using them to modify tactics. It made all the difference for me between strong title contenders, with every chance of winning, and upping it a notch to domestic domination and one of the top teams on the continent.

If particular players are completing very few passes, I'd shorten their passing distances a little. worked for me. other reccomendations are on the thread, but I didn't really need very much else, as my heading and tackling rates were great. I just stopped my midfielders from shooting so much too, it meant we played the ball more, and in turn, scored more goals.

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what can i say started off with tranmere, twaeked the tactics very slightly and the results weren't good, they where fantastic :played 15 won 13 drew 1 lost 2 and ive ony conceded 5 goals !!! this tactic is phenomenal. The only thing i would like some advice on is how to change things around when my tactics get 'cracked' by the AI. is there a diamond version or a 4-5-1 version to use. Cheers

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Nah, I was worng... Its all gone pear shaped... ive just conceaded 6 in the first 38 minutes against Man City..dont know what has happened but im getting battered every time now. Getting close to throwing my tea cup at my Pc now !!. Not sure what im doing wrong, im using V3 with the tweaks that have been suggested. Fast running out of ideas..and Games before I get sacked !. Any ideas folks ? I would show you a screen shot of my team but dont know how to. icon_confused.gif

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thank you Fuss for the great tactic and the other members for contributing to the community. icon14.gif

I had a relative success with your tactic (as Charlton), but i have two questions.....

1- The wide players on your tactics are ML & MR, so does it make difference if i played my natrual AML & AMR players in these positions or moved them up to the AML & AMR spots with short farrows? icon_confused.gif

will my AML & AMR play at their best in ML & MR positions in this tactic?

2- Later icon_biggrin.gif

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Oh God, it just got worse. 27 mins gone...5-0 down agasint Arsenal !!!

Arrrgghhh....40 mins gone ... 7-0 down !!

Full time. Arsenal 9 - 0 Ipswich..errr...at least i only conceaded 2 goals in the second half icon_smile.gif

Fuss- I need your god given talents to fix this. Im using version 3.

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Hang on Hang on...whats going on here ?!?!?

Ive just drew 3-3 with manu U, beat everton 1-0 and Hammered West Brom 5-1

P.s Anyone looking for someone who can score from freekicks then get Chris Brunt from Sheff Wednesday ( about £600k ) scores one in every two freekicks !!!

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No..wait a sec...wait a sec

Nope its all gone to pot again.Getting hammered by Mn U 3-0 down after 25 mins despite drawing 3-3 and outplaying them 4 games ago. I just dont get it, why is my team so in consistant ?

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Darbs, The AI doesn't crack tactics, that is an urban myth (there is a quote from Cleon to this extent knocking around somewhere on this site)..

What happens, on 07, is that based on you teams success the AI starts giving you more respect. This usually relates to playing defensive and hitting you on the counter attack.

So the more games you win the harder it becomes to break teams down. It is known as re-ranking.

I think there is a big re-rank at the half season point. Thats when I notice that I can't score and the AI starts getting lots of goals, but I think it goes on all through the season.

Watch the odds in the media and you will see how at the start of a season you are predicted to lose more often, this will cause the AI to play more attacking football which is ideal for Fuss's counter attack. As the season goes on (if you keep winning) the odds for you side will improve and the counter attacking becomes more difficult to score chances from as the AI will play more (to very) defensive..

Now you need to tweek the tactic to cope with this, I tend to push my Defensive Line up to almost max and use lots of closing down, but that works for me because my defenders are so uber fast.

As stated above, you need to study the after match stats, or even study them in game. If you see a low pass completetion for a player then change his passing, its is usually the goal keeper and fall backs for me. (if the whole team has poor pass completion, try tweeking the tempo)

See lots of off sides? then reduce the attacking mentality for that player

Missing lots of shots? Reduce long shots to rarely.

If you can stop all of those from happening, then you will not give the ball to the opposition as much and reduce the likely hood of a counter attack.

I can almost string together a good run by doing this.

Good luck and has anyone else got any ideas how to cope with re-ranking?

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