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Major Raver

Raver training + sets

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HOW TO DO THE TRAINING & GET THE BEST FROM THE RAVER SETS

I’ve always used other peoples training in the past, never in truth been something that I wanted to get into. With FM2011 I have seen plenty of chatter about training, but very few schedules, especially ones that look like they are working, so I decided to address both situations. One thing that became obvious straight away is that you are not going to find a super set of training regimes that leave you with world class players within a season. The training module is just part of the equation. The rest is maybe more about you thinking things through, managing if you like.

One of the games I started at was with Ajax (although this has also been tried with Barcelona, Torquay and Portsmouth, they are a team with decent training facilities, but the coaching stuff lacked (and I will explain why in a moment). Next up you need to find the players that you can work on, no point in picking a 17 year old centre back with Tackling, Heading and Marking at 5. He will never do a job for you. Then being in preseason it’s about your players learning your tactics but also getting fit enough to do so, not get injured and hit the ground running for improving.

To achieve all this you need the following things.

1. Know your facilities and adjust your expectations accordingly. If you have poor training facilities, don’t expect big jumps. If you have fantastic facilities then make sure you hit your potential.

2. Get the right coaches in, no point in having a fantastic set up and then have rubbish coaches, or coaches coaching the wrong things.

3. Don’t have to many or two few coaches. If you have too few you are spreading them out and one Goalkeeping coach with 10 goalies slows things down. If you are at a big club and are allowed a lot of coaching staff then don’t have them all as Coach’s, but have First Team coaches and Youth Coaches for each segment.

4. Players need to play, they learn so much more on the field of play.

5. Players need tutoring, but the right type of tutor, not someone to teach them bad habits.

6. Keep them happy; people learn more when they are happy.

All makes common sense you say and I have seen it all before. Well what I have learnt that I have seen regularly but doesn’t work, is training schedules over training the players, leaving them tired and slowing down their progress. My schedules are not over intensive, but they do contain “Lite” versions for those players who like a little moan or two.

COACHES

These are so important, especially the right ones. For coaches training goalkeepers you need someone with a high Goalkeeper rating, but that isn’t all. Motivating your players, teach them some discipline and also see how Determined they are. So you are looking for a Goalkeeper coach that is great on Goalkeeping ratings but also in Motivating, Discipline and Determination.

Example, who is better?

Alan Knight

Goalkeeping – 20

Motivating -2

Determination – 4

Discipline – 5

OR

Billy the Fish

Goalkeeping – 16

Motivating – 14

Determination – 12

Discipline – 16

I would rather have Mr Fish, because he is pushing his players, but also is very knowledgeable as a Goalkeeper. If you’re lucky to find a GK Coach with 18+ as a Goalkeeper, with 16+ in Motivating, Determination and Discipline, with a player with High Work Rate and Determination, then you are on to a winner.

So what do those coaches do? Well in my reading of the game they do the following for each training category. (Written in order of what is most important for each one). You will also see that Fitness and aerobics are listed with the same bits. To get the most out of these two you need 2 coaches, one for each. So have a coach concentrating on Fitness, and another on Aerobics.

Gk = Goalkeeping, Motivating, Determination, Discipline.

Def = Defend, Tactical, Motivating, Determination and Discipline.

Att = Attacking, Tactical, Motivating, Determination and Discipline.

Shooting = Technical (most important here), Attack, Motivating, Determination and Discipline.

Strength = Fitness, Motivating, Determination and Discipline.

Aerobics = Fitness, Motivating, Determination and Discipline.

Tactics = Tactics, Motivating, Determination and Discipline.

Ball Control = Technical, Motivating, Determination and Discipline.

Set Pieces = Attack, Mentality, Technical, Motivating, Determination and Discipline.

If you have a lot of coaching staff allowed you should need only one coach for each category, but two for Set Pieces as it is very hard to get the stats high enough for all those.

Remember if you can, then have separate coaches for the first team and youth team. If your lower league, then you want a coach who can do Fitness and Aerobics together, one to do Goalkeeping and then those that cover what is left. At Torquay I was only allowed 3 coach’s, so I had on focused on the Fitness/Aerobics, one good at Goalkeeping, and then made sure the final coach and Asst Manager covered the stats left as best as possible.

TRAINING CATEGORIES

In Football Manager 2011 they have changed the way these are, so the successful training routines of the past are no longer working. I also have no proof but I am left wondering after playing around a bit (and shall research further) that the physio’s maybe having a helping hand on the Strength category, which looks after Stamina, Strength and Natural Fitness.

With my schedules I had to break down positions of the players and then work on the categories that matter. So what’s the point on Goalkeeper have lots of shooting training? It is obvious I know, but then why not give him a tiny bit of training on Shooting? Why you ask? Well you don’t want him to be your new star forward but as shooting covers Composure you don’t want him to have those stats dropping like a stone, so making sure non important stats don’t plummet away, it’s important to cover that as well.

Training now isn’t about a player plays in a position so let’s stick him in that training category. For example a “winger” is seen as someone who plays left or right of midfield in many people’s books. Players who play on the right side of the pitch aren’t bracketed the same though. For me Aaron Lennon is a winger, a guy who gallops forward attacking, but not blessed with too many defensive duties. He is a player who fits the winger description to a tee. Then you have David Beckham who in his day marshaled the right flank for England and Man Utd with Gary Neville, both overlapping and working together. Is he a winger? In my book not at all.

This is where people need to look at schedules, using that as an example I would put Lennon on a Wingers schedules, but Beckham is more box to box type, so I would put him on that schedule even though he is playing wide. So do you leave Lennon on Wingers for the rest of career? No is the answer to that. In time you may see his role changing a bit, you may want him tracking back and want him to improve some of his defending stats. Well you then need to put him on the schedule for fullbacks for a few months. You see the schedules are for the areas of the pitch, they are not for the players, so you need to move your players around them to do what you want the player to do.

Also its the same for Shearer and Sheringham in their England days. Shearer would be better on striker training, whilst Sheringham would suit the forw/mid setting, for a forward player although not an out and out striker, who drops back in to midfield occasionally.

WHAT I HAVE DONE

I decided to join Ajax; firstly I mutually terminated all the deadwood of staff and went hunting for new guys and gals that followed as closely as I can the stats detailed above. I didn’t care if he was unproven or world class in rep; it was what his stats were that mattered to me.

Next up I set up Pre-season Training, these for Goalkeeping, Defenders, Midfields and Attackers, and then the same again for youth players. I put all the players in these. These concentrated heavily on Aerobics and Strength, as I wanted to get their physical stats up together. I wanted to work them to a strong level, but I didn’t want them running the risk of being knackered for friendlies and also not picking up those all important injuries. They were to stay on these until they were in Superb Condition. I also planned to use these pre-season programmes when they are injured so they go straight in to them when they start training again and to help them recover. I also plan to use them for a week if we have a midseason break.

I then set up my training programmes ready for them to move over to when match fit. I did one for Goalkeeping, Centre Backs, Full Backs, Defensive Midfielders, Attacking Midfielders, Wingers or wide attackers, and Strikers. I also did the same for youth players.

The Pre-season routines concentrate on getting people fit, and the results were fantastic. After just a week many of the players were in superb condition and had moved out of pre-season training and in to full training. Within this week they had played a friendly and a half, and were 10 days after the start game ready for the next friendly at 95% plus and in superb condition.

An example of the preseason schedule I put together for my Goalies was:

High for Strength and Aerobics

Medium for Shot Stopping

Light but in different degrees for Handling, Tactics and Ball Control. Work Load was one notch in to Heavy in total.

In the actual main schedules themselves I concentrated on what I felt was important for my players. A Goalie needs to be good in shot stopping and handling, so they were knocked up to the highest setting, same for my Strikers needed shooting at the same level. Below is a list of what I did and why for each category.

Goalkeepers – Intensive Shot Stopping and Handling, Medium Tactics for the likes of anticipation and Positioning, decent Ball Control for First Touch, and light defending for concentration.

Full Backs – High Tactics and Ball control, Intensive defending, and medium attacking as I want them to be able to cross and pass a ball. Light shooting for composure.

Centre Backs – Intensive Defending, High Tactics for team work and positioning, good ball control for First touch and heading, light attacking and shooting for the likes of passing and composure, as I explained earlier on I don’t want some stats to go down.

Defensive Mid – Intensive defending, but lower than a defender, Higher than defenders on the other sections though.

Attack Mid – Tactics, Ball Control, all at high, shooting at Medium. Defending low as I don’t want to forget about his concentrating, and attacking at intensive as I want him to unlock those defences.

Wingers – Ball Control intensive for dribbling, first touch and technique. Same for attacking, whilst medium for shooting and tactics, and very light for defending.

Strikers – Intensive shooting, very high attacking, medium Tactics and ball control but no defensive training.

All of these are on the highest notch for medium overall, so for example you improve anything by one click you will be heading into heavy. I don’t want to be heavy, I think this causes injuries, unhappiness and is too intensive. If the player isn’t improving enough to your standards, then call him up for a private chat, and tell him to train harder. Seems to work as he doesn’t feel you’re asking the impossible.

Some players though refuse to train harder, this is down to the fact they are lazy. If you have 10 players happily working on a schedule, but 1 one moaning its to much, it isn’t the schedule that’s at fault but the player. I have made a Lite version, put him in that for a while, before returning him at a later date to the full schedule. If he still moans then get rid of the player, he is lazy and not a team member. Would you work in a company and do 8 hours a day, but one person moans it’s too much and is allowed to do 6 hours, two less than the rest of you? No you wouldn’t, and it affects the team morale that one gets special treatment.

OTHER BITS

Match Preparation will help your team gel and give you emphasis on getting your team together. Team Blending is always your starting point here and once that has been achieved I tend to be moving on to Defensive Positioning for teams stronger than me, especially away from home and Attacking Movement for teams that I’m miles better at, as I want to try and unlock their defences and avoid any super goalkeepers. Problem with match preparation is it eats in to your player improving. I have found that once all those blue bars in the preparation screen are at full you only need to spend 10 – 20% of the week working on Preparation. Drop that bar down, your team remains fully prepared for the match but now you working on improving your players.

You can get your players to concentrate on individual bits, like improving their speed and the like. Don’t waste your time trying to turn Peter Crouch into Defoe, isn’t going to happen. But if your Defender is brilliant at Tackling, Marking and heading, but slightly lacking in positioning by a couple of points, then give it a whirl as it will help just tweak that up. I believe this is very important in eking out the most from each category. Youth players are a must on this and it works brilliantly. Nicolai Boilson at Ajax started off with Acceleration of 8 and speed of 8. After two seasons of training, most part being 10% match prep, 10% working on quickness and 80% Centre Back Training, his quickness was 11, Acceleration 10, and his other stats left him as in and around the first team. One of the first things to do when taking over is look at your players and work out what individual training they are in need of first. Set them on that and leave them to your happy, you may not be happy for 3 seasons, but so be it, polishing a rough diamond isn’t a short term thing.

Training in the past had you seeing a great schedule meaning your players improved massively. As you see above micro-management is now needed, and also patience. I have other 3 seasons seen fantastic improvements on my players using the above. Also for one season, stick your young players out on loan, the youngsters benefit from this, but make sure the team you are sending them to have half decent coaches, facilities and are doing well. No point in sending your star youth player to a team rooted bottom of the conference with poor facilities and one coach, and then expect him to improve. In fact he will come back worse! Also some rubbish is likely to improve a little, but don’t expect to train every player of yours in to a star, most just aren’t good enough. Remove the deadwood and work on those worth it.

Young players need to play first team games, but star players also need to be looked after. I have seen a number of people moan about schedules leaving their players knackered. Right if you do not play a game for 7 days, your player is not knackered. It isn’t the schedule tiring them out, it’s the tactic. Telling a player to run up and down a week for 90 minutes will knacker them, it isn’t the training it’s your tactics. It’s simple. These schedules do not knacker my players. Most injuries I have had are match related, not happening in training, in fact the only training injuries I saw at Ajax were 3, and all caused by the same player injuring others. That isn’t the training that’s the said player with a problem of being over the top. Your tactics and leaving players on too long or with knocks will cause most the injuries on these schedules. No matter what player and tactics you have, players will get tired and need days off, squad rotation is now a way of football.

I have tested and tested the above micro managed to the extreme at times, and I have found the above works a treat for me. Run it over a few seasons and see where you get.

Just remember they are mine and are working for me, if they don’t for you then hopefully they will form a base for you to improve and use. No hissy fits and spitting dummies out, if you don’t like then move on to someone else’s, or have a go yourselves.

Schedule 4 is what you want, hope you enjoy.

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These are Version 3 of the Schedules, these include a box to box midfielder, a Forw / Midf schedule which is for forwards that you like to drop back in to midfield occasionally, not advanced forwards or poacher, they stay on the striker training, and edited the defensive side for the attacking schedules.

http://www.mediafire.com/file/rs484bxl6zmcmbt/Raver%20Training%20Setups%20Ver%203.tsh

Version 4 of the schedules are here, full write up and instructions to follow.

http://www.mediafire.com/?q7dz3shrkv7dqib

Part Time Schedules

http://www.mediafire.com/?5culith9a810f5i

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These sound good! Really like the explanation behind them. Will definitely give them a try.

cerud

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These sound good! Really like the explanation behind them. Will definitely give them a try.

cerud

Thanks. I have slightly altered the physical training, but kept all the prinicipals listed above.

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Ball Control = Technical, Motivating, Determination and Discipline.

Doesn't ball control coaching require a decent mentality attribute? I'm not sure if that's just a mistake or if I've got it wrong.

These schedules look great by the way, I'll be giving them a go.

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Doesn't ball control coaching require a decent mentality attribute? I'm not sure if that's just a mistake or if I've got it wrong.

These schedules look great by the way, I'll be giving them a go.

Not from what I am finding, my ball control stats are going up. What I am finding is the players are improving, but also not getting injured or over knackered in the games. Let me know Jimmy how things are going for you.

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im going to give these a try, ive taken a screenshot of one of my most promising players and ill do another a year later and let you compare them

this is him now

lucas7-12-2013.png

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im going to give these a try, ive taken a screenshot of one of my most promising players and ill do another a year later and let you compare them

Ok Dave, I look forward to seeing them. Can you include details of how many games they played, any tutoring, conversations and your coach looking after him. I am waiting to finish my current season before posting up some screen shots.

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I think I'll go with Billy the Fish too...

billythefish-t.jpg

Alan Knight was a bigger legend, wasn't often found out of plaice or left floundering!

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Ok Dave, I look forward to seeing them. Can you include details of how many games they played, any tutoring, conversations and your coach looking after him. I am waiting to finish my current season before posting up some screen shots.

Well what ill do is do a mid way update at the end of this season before i post another pic after the 12 month mark then we can see the progress has it happens, I dont have anyone tutoring because theres nobody experienced enough at the club to take on the job, ill post a screenshot of my attacking coach next time i have fm on

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Do you not think it's good to have different schedules for younger players who are still developing physically, and schedules for players who have physically matured (switching at, say, age 24)?

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Do you not think it's good to have different schedules for younger players who are still developing physically, and schedules for players who have physically matured (switching at, say, age 24)?

Might be a possible thing to look into actually, I may experimnt a bit with that and post my findings and if I think work my schedules. At the moment it is important to get physical stats up, but for me need to get them up to scratch for the position they play in, as the stats shoot up with playing games and the right tutoring.

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Might be a possible thing to look into actually, I may experimnt a bit with that and post my findings and if I think work my schedules. At the moment it is important to get physical stats up, but for me need to get them up to scratch for the position they play in, as the stats shoot up with playing games and the right tutoring.

That's true for younger players, but they peak around age 24. For example, you're not going to train a 33 year old to run faster or increase his stamina.

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of course.

right now, there aren't that many good schedules around.

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I had a good play last night and I have tweaked the schedules. I shall post some screen prints tonight to show why. Basically the intensity of some of the training section within each Schedule maybe a little to much. For example, the Goalkeepers having Handling and Shot Stopping at the full. I have lowered these slightly and put up the other stats slightly, still not going over the overall medium setting. As I said I post some screen prints tonight to show this better and help explain why.

I am over the moon with the pre-season schedules, for Pre-season and for injuries, speed players are getting up to match fitness in superb.

I shall load Ver 2 schedules tonight, but what I am also looking for is a few guinea pigs to test a Ver 2.1 and Ver 2.2. Basically these formations are one notch up, and two notchs up on the overall training bar for each schedule and I want to see if they cause more injuries without improving player stats over the normal Ver 2.

I'm tinkering with all these as I believe I am on the right track, just want some extra data to confirm this.

Any takers?

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When you say the schedules are too heavy, what are the effects? If the affects are too many injuries, that of course is not good. If however, the effects are complaints from the players, i don't worry about that. So long as they are happy with other things - winning games, caring manager - they'll just whinge on occasions but stay happy.

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When you say the schedules are too heavy, what are the effects? If the affects are too many injuries, that of course is not good. If however, the effects are complaints from the players, i don't worry about that. So long as they are happy with other things - winning games, caring manager - they'll just whinge on occasions but stay happy.

No not injuries and that, just wasting the training time. I beleive you can do to much training on some categories that your wasting your time. When you go to a player and click on training and then training levels if one of the bars is well over the top line then I think your doing to much in that section, that you can lower it a bit without slowing his training progress. Really need to get some screen prints up to show you.

I've been tinkering about and I seem to have hit on something, judging by the the results i've had.

I post some stuff tonight and also post the the revised schedules as well.

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T'riffic, looking forward to it.

Out of interest, are you well versed in SFraser's analyses of training for FM10 and Mantralux for this edition?

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T'riffic, looking forward to it.

Out of interest, are you well versed in SFraser's analyses of training for FM10 and Mantralux for this edition?

Nope, I know of Fraser's in FM10, but I havrn't read up on others. In past I used Tugs, and to be honest would of used in Fm11 if he had built one, but I decided to do the research and work myself on this one, and not get side tracked with other peoples theories.

How did you find the pre-season stuff phnompenhandy?

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Yeah really happy, if they keep improving like that every month ill have world class players in no time

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How did you find the pre-season stuff phnompenhandy?

Work commitments have delayed my career. Might be the weekend before I can plough through pre-season (I believe that's White Christmas time in your language)

I'm downloading and will install your version 2 - what differences have you found with v2 compared with v1?

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Work commitments have delayed my career. Might be the weekend before I can plough through pre-season (I believe that's White Christmas time in your language)

I'm downloading and will install your version 2 - what differences have you found with v2 compared with v1?

The technical stats are going up nearly as much, but the the physical stats are matching them, without any injuries and massive fatigue problems in the matches as well. Revised youth set ups are working nicely as well. Didn't get a chance to do screen shots and the like last night, got stuck Christmas food shopping with the missus, only time to post up the revised schedules as promised. Should get some real testing done today. Don't like to do holiday stuff, as you don't have the control to fine tune things properly.

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Quite right. For your interest, SFraser has just posted on his thread. I'll c&p:

What I did for FM10 is what SI did for FM11, I balanced the training categories, so that the linear progression could be managed more accurately.

Half this thread is now irrelevant for FM11 because the training categories are now +/- one attribute relative to each other. Goalkeeping has been split into two groups and the rest have been reorganised so that the effect of X slider level is now equal across all attributes in all categories. It is X/4 for all, no balancing is required. The assumtpion that X level for all categories has the same overall quantitive effect on all attributes is now true.

That is the real major update to training in FM11. After 3-4 releases the basic assumption that everyone starts out with in regards to Training is now true ingame. There should no longer be such things as untrainable goalkeepers which marred every release and training theory over the past three years untill this thread came out.

Basically, he's saying that of the downloadable schedules made for FM10 (e.g. Tugs') only SFrasers are valid for FM11 because SI changed the way training operates in accordance with his ideas.

Here's a link to the page 12 of his thread:

http://community.sigames.com/showthread.php/185812-SFraser-s-Training-Schedules-for-FM10/page12

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Man i really enjoyed reading that to be honest with you i never knew about the blending bit of your players >.<. Im a noob at fm2011 but learning ^_^.

Thanks for the schedule!!

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Man i really enjoyed reading that to be honest with you i never knew about the blending bit of your players >.<. Im a noob at fm2011 but learning ^_^.

Thanks for the schedule!!

Thanks, hope it helps you.

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Great schedules as far as I can see, but I am quite disappointed about the fact there is no schedule for all-rounded midfielder (box-to-box type) which I use on my tactic and lots of my players are just midfielders (M C) with both defensive and attacking abilities.

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Great schedules as far as I can see, but I am quite disappointed about the fact there is no schedule for all-rounded midfielder (box-to-box type) which I use on my tactic and lots of my players are just midfielders (M C) with both defensive and attacking abilities.

You may have a point there, I have a look at that for you and get one added as my new tactics I am using has a box to box midfielder in it.

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I use a narrow 4-3-3 formation with 3 central MCs, 2 of whom generally have support roles, i.e. both defensive and offensive responsibilities. Therefore, I need a schedule for them too.

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This is the part of the game that I don't tend to enjoy. I don't mind scouting and appointing coaches, but the training element is something I'd prefer to take from these forums.

Looks good Raver. Will add in tonight. As my current set of training schedules are quite messy.

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From what I've noticed so far, the CB schedule seems to be working well, as I'm seeing good improvements there. However, a lot of my strikers' concentration attributes seem to be nosediving, so maybe a little more tweaking in that area.

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I have tried downloading the link,but i cant open the file as it says the file does not have a program associated with it for performing this action.Create an association in the set associations control panel.As i am virtualy clueless to what any of this means i would be grateful for any help.Thanks in advance.

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You don't open it. Download the file into your documents - Sports Interactive - Football Manager 2011 - schedules folder.

If you don't have one, you can just create it. Link seems to work now...at least it did for me.

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From what I've noticed so far, the CB schedule seems to be working well, as I'm seeing good improvements there. However, a lot of my strikers' concentration attributes seem to be nosediving, so maybe a little more tweaking in that area.

Which version are you using Jimmy?

I am working on a midfielder box to box schedule, and a striker poacher, and striker complete schedule, both in test at the moment.

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I am also working on a set of tactic's as well which are a bit different to the ones on here, started a new game to see how they go, but I am getting good results so far with an attacking one that has a GK, Flat back 4, DMC, 2xAMC, AMR, AML and a Striker. its like a 4-1-4-1 formation but the midfield up in the AM positions.

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Major raver

i don't want to be a pain in the ass, but are you also planning on making a schedule for a "normal" MC? one thats not really role focused?

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Which version are you using Jimmy?

I am working on a midfielder box to box schedule, and a striker poacher, and striker complete schedule, both in test at the moment.

It's version 1.

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Major raver

i don't want to be a pain in the ass, but are you also planning on making a schedule for a "normal" MC? one thats not really role focused?

I think he answered that in post #34. It's what I'm waiting for.

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I think he answered that in post #34. It's what I'm waiting for.

I got stuck Chrimbo wrapping last night with the missus, with two young kids and her family it took ages, lol. I am hoping to get some further testing done later and then get the new position schedules out to you all before my bed time.

Also planning to get the slightly harder schedule out if anyone wants to be a guinea pig?

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It's version 1.

Move to version 2 Jimmy and let me know if this helps. Also what is the coach like that is looking after that training?

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Move to version 2 Jimmy and let me know if this helps. Also what is the coach like that is looking after that training?

It was with Chelsea so I had two 4.5 star coaches dedicated to defensive training. (I think that's what trains concentration?)

With the tactic issues in the 11.2.1 patch, it looks like I wont be playing FM until February, so I wont be able to provide anymore feedback on that. Sorry I can't be of more help.

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With the tactic issues in the 11.2.1 patch, it looks like I wont be playing FM until February, so I wont be able to provide anymore feedback on that. Sorry I can't be of more help.

what's this issue in detail?

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