Rosenthal

Regens system

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Anyone else noticed that the regens are _much_ better than in previous games?

two examples:
[url]http://img528.imageshack.us/img528/6436/regen1.jpg[/url]
[url]http://img190.imageshack.us/img190/4572/regen2.jpg[/url]

can't say the left back doesn't fit almost any team in the world, at his first season :O

and it's not just those two. the regens all over are at the same level and better than the real mature players.

It looks like in a few seasons it will almost be like playing without "Use Real Players" choosen...

Anyone else thinking like me or It's just me?

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Well, so far I havent found any Albanian and Kuwaiti regen world class players (unlike in FM10, where I had a game where 3 of the best players in the world were Albanian), so I'm liking it better.

I think regens should be better at a young age. Messi doesnt need to turn 27 year old before he hits, in FM terms, CA = 190. The best kids in the world are already quality players at a very young age, FM should reflect this.

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They seem well rounded from all the screenshots I've seen so far - no obvious (and silly) weaknesses like centre backs who can't jump or defensive midfielders that can't mark or position themselves. One thing though - I've yet to see a screenshot of a regen with 15+ for flair. Most seem to have less than 10. Not a big issue of course but worth taking a look at.

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I'm noticing a lot of great left backs and I'm hoping it isn't a similar trend to FM10's DC/DM/CM position that it seemed to love so much for decent regens.

Anybody else noticing a lot of great left backs or left sided players?

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I've seen a lot of great left backs, quite a few of the premier league clubs have real world beaters in that position in 2018 on my game. Left wingers on the other hand seems to be a dying breed, with both Arsenal, Man U and Liverpool employing wide left players that would have slim to no chance of getting into the team at game start.

( ps, the sentence "with [B]both[/B] Arsenal, Man U and Liverpool..." seems wrong, which word would you native English-speakers use in that situation? Replace the word or scrap it? )

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[quote name='hassebasse80']

( ps, the sentence "with [B]both[/B] Arsenal, Man U and Liverpool..." seems wrong, which word would you native English-speakers use in that situation? Replace the word or scrap it? )[/QUOTE]

Scrap it.

10

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I'm also noticing a large amount of regens have outspoken/volatile/confrontational personalities. Volatile always seems to be in there.

Anybody else noticing this?

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[quote name='dking']I'm also noticing a large amount of regens have outspoken/volatile/confrontational personalities. Volatile always seems to be in there.

Anybody else noticing this?[/QUOTE]

Yeah, I am having a lot of fights within my squad...

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Regarding personalities, this has been a trend in previous Fms as well, regens employ the full range of hidden attributes (1-20), while most well known or semi known real players have 10+ for most of their personality attributes.

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[quote name='Äktsjon Männ']They seem well rounded from all the screenshots I've seen so far - no obvious (and silly) weaknesses like centre backs who can't jump or defensive midfielders that can't mark or position themselves. One thing though - I've yet to see a screenshot of a regen with 15+ for flair. Most seem to have less than 10. Not a big issue of course but worth taking a look at.[/QUOTE]

They do exist! I have a regen in my squad at the moment who has 16 for flair. I'm also pretty sure that I've seen some others with 18 or 19, but the rest of their attributes were pretty poor so I didn't shortlist them.

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[quote name='hassebasse80']( ps, the sentence "with [B]both[/B] Arsenal, Man U and Liverpool..." seems wrong, which word would you native English-speakers use in that situation? Replace the word or scrap it? )[/QUOTE]

Technically you should use "each of". "Both" should only be used for a list of two things ("Both Ronaldo and Rooney have had their problems with Alex Ferguson"), whereas "each of" can apply to a list of any number ("Each of Stam, Ince and Beckham was sold by United after their own falling-out with the manager").

Some people would use "all of", but that's not strictly right - it implies that all of the items in your list are doing something collectively (i.e. Arsenal, Man U and Liverpool are all using the SAME wide left players), whereas "each of" gives the (correct) sense that they're independently doing the same thing (i.e. using different wide left players, each of which is below par). No-one would pick you up on it though, and similarly no-one would have a problem if you scrapped it (although, again, technically that's not correct).

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Check out the Next Messi regen in my save:

[IMG]http://img263.imageshack.us/img263/1778/29289054.png[/IMG]

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[quote name='dfgrigg']They do exist! I have a regen in my squad at the moment who has 16 for flair. I'm also pretty sure that I've seen some others with 18 or 19, but the rest of their attributes were pretty poor so I didn't shortlist them.[/QUOTE]

They might exist but seem too rare to me. As with the 'new Messi' above. Brilliant technical attributes, pace and everything but flair 6. Sticks out a bit.

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[QUOTE=Äktsjon Männ;6180312]They might exist but seem too rare to me. As with the 'new Messi' above. Brilliant technical attributes, pace and everything but flair 6. Sticks out a bit.[/QUOTE]

but that guys is only a def mid, you wouldnt expect a high level of flair.

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[quote name='milnerpoint']but that guys is only a def mid, you wouldnt expect a high level of flair.[/QUOTE]

Yeah perhaps. I'm just saying I haven't seen any screenshots of good players with flair. Most seem have less than 10. Might be a coincidence of course since it's not too big of a sample size.

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[QUOTE='[c];6180229']Technically you should use "each of". "Both" should only be used for a list of two things ("Both Ronaldo and Rooney have had their problems with Alex Ferguson"), whereas "each of" can apply to a list of any number ("Each of Stam, Ince and Beckham was sold by United after their own falling-out with the manager").

Some people would use "all of", but that's not strictly right - it implies that all of the items in your list are doing something collectively (i.e. Arsenal, Man U and Liverpool are all using the SAME wide left players), whereas "each of" gives the (correct) sense that they're independently doing the same thing (i.e. using different wide left players, each of which is below par). No-one would pick you up on it though, and similarly no-one would have a problem if you scrapped it (although, again, technically that's not correct).[/QUOTE]


Thanks :) A great answer!

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[QUOTE=Äktsjon Männ;6180351]Yeah perhaps. I'm just saying I haven't seen any screenshots of good players with flair. Most seem have less than 10. Might be a coincidence of course since it's not too big of a sample size.[/QUOTE]

i hope you just havent come across one yet!!
it really annoyed me in FM10 that world beating defenders couldnt jump, therefor always made mistakes, or amazing goal keepers couldnt rush off their line, hopefully this has been addressed in this game.

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I'm pretty sure this has been pointed out before, but I'll say it again: Flair is a tendency in the game, so it is not as closely tied to the overall ability of the player as some other more technical attributes are.

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Yeah definatly, i've currently got 4 defenders RB,CB,CB,LB and all are gonna be worldclass players. I also have a Welsh Striker who at 17 is already 2 star, potential 4 and a half.

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[quote name='clonerohin1']Check out the Next Messi regen in my save:

[IMG]http://img263.imageshack.us/img263/1778/29289054.png[/IMG][/QUOTE]

Retrain as a winger imo

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in my 3 seasons to date in FM 2011 I have not seen 1 near perfect newgen, am slightly dissapointed. Have seen a few ok to good 1's but nothing that stands out to be near perfection.

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[quote name='UweFuchs']Retrain as a winger imo[/QUOTE]

yep thats what i'm thinking... anyways he's joining in 6 months, so...

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but his Natural Fitness is only an 8 which could mean he might be getting injured a bit too much for your liking once he joins your club. Also get the lad to take corners

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[quote name='hassebasse80']
"with Arsenal, Man U and Liverpool..."[/QUOTE]

There you go Hassebasse. :)

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Still a lot of problems with regens.

In short- regens are still a long way away from the players already in the database. The templates help a bit, but the algorithms for deciding attributes has a WHOLE lot of room for improvement.
Too many regens "weak" with their wrong foot for instance, and too many have silly variances and spreads in their attributes when viewed in context.

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It's considerably better than on FM10 in my opinion, i'm not seeing any more central defenders with 3 on jumping or wingers and forwards with 3 on off the ball.

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Hidden atributes, like adaptability, professionalism, ambition, temperament, sportmanship or loyalty are essential for developing young regens. I hope this area of the game has improved since FM10.

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[quote name='big_bob']Hidden atributes, like adaptability, professionalism, ambition, temperament, sportmanship or loyalty are essential for developing young regens. I hope this area of the game has improved since FM10.[/QUOTE]

Due to legal reasons, some of the mental attributes can sometimes be limited to a safe middle ground value for real players, or at least above the very low values. With newgens, we can naturally use the full scale but we do still track the correlation between the mental attributes and ability, so high potential newgens have similar chances of having high mental attributes as the real players in the DB. The more average newgens naturally can have a bit more varied mental attributes.

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Newgen players are not a problem in this version, they are quite good and i think SI hit the spot this time, however i am hoping for an improvement for the newgen managers in patch 11.2 because they are very bad.Perhaps the same templates that were used for players can be used for managers and coaches too?

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[quote name='Riz Remes']Due to legal reasons, some of the mental attributes can sometimes be limited to a safe middle ground value for real players, or at least above the very low values. With newgens, we can naturally use the full scale but we do still track the correlation between the mental attributes and ability, so high potential newgens have similar chances of having high mental attributes as the real players in the DB. The more average newgens naturally can have a bit more varied mental attributes.[/QUOTE]

This of course causes the whole game to change after a few years, when regens become a more prominent part of the game, which in turns makes it feel like the game is getting more and more unrealistic.

Consistency is important in simulation-games like this, and when you get the player to buy into the supposed realism of the game at startup, it's not a good idea to change the whole game world after a few years just because "that's how it's supposed to be".

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[quote name='Wiitastic']but his Natural Fitness is only an 8 which could mean he might be getting injured a bit too much for your liking once he joins your club. Also get the lad to take corners[/QUOTE]

Yeah, I noticed the low NatFitness and he also has 12 on Injury Proneness. He will get injured a lot if playing at his natural position of Def Midfield. Thankfully, his Versatility rating is an 18, so I can train him even as a striker... ;)

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[quote name='andu1']Newgen players are not a problem in this version, they are quite good and i think SI hit the spot this time, however i am hoping for an improvement for the newgen managers in patch 11.2 because they are very bad.Perhaps the same templates that were used for players can be used for managers and coaches too?[/QUOTE]

That's a great idea for FM12.

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[quote name='Saevel']This of course causes the whole game to change after a few years, when regens become a more prominent part of the game, which in turns makes it feel like the game is getting more and more unrealistic.

Consistency is important in simulation-games like this, and when you get the player to buy into the supposed realism of the game at startup, it's not a good idea to change the whole game world after a few years just because "that's how it's supposed to be".[/QUOTE]

I don't think there are differences big enough to cause the whole game world to change. The differences are usually quite subtle and where as newgens can be more varied with some of their characteristics, on average they are still not too different from your average real players. There are always extreme cases one way or the other with both newgens or real players (if they have been rated so in the DB) but in general we still try to maintain the average balance of the starting database with the newgens in the long term.

On the subject of non-players, we have done some work on tweaking them for the next patch and we will be looking at some new ways of improving the modelling in the future (we just logged a feature suggestion or two about this today for our feature meetings). Modelling the non-player progression is a bit harder than modelling the player progression, as it is much harder to quantify and judge the success and progress of a manager/coach/scout/physio in real life to generate accurate models to use as guidelines. But we are always looking to improve and we'll be looking into this area as well in the future.

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