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The 3-4-1-2 - A Tactical Challenge!


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Update:

Thus far, I am very happy with the way the formation is working out. After four matches in the BSS Lewes (strongly tipped for relegation) lie in third place, unbeaten. The particularly pleasing thing is that we have scored 10 goals and the wide men are making a good contribution as a number of these have come from crosses. As I'm playing to LLM principles, it's not as a result of picking a load of better players off Player Search, either.

Of course, knowing my immense capacity for messing things up, things are certain to go pear-shaped later on! But these results suggest to me that the formation is fully playable.

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I've been trying to work this out. With micro-management in terms of man marking, I got it working decently well. However, I can't get my middle CB to push up into midfield often enough. I use Roma for this tactic, but I can't get Mexes to push up and join the midfield, even with FWR on often. Anyone got this working?

Me neither! I use Roma as well coz Mexes is a decent CB/Sweeper guy. I am trying exactly to reproduce such a behavior as an advance ball playing CBs. I have not enough materials to properly report back yet. As far as I can tell, the job is done decently as you said, sometimes he got in a "busquets" style just in front of the 2 other wide CBs and spreads some play down the wing.

What is your setting? I have changed a bit since my last post. Here is mine, now

I play balanced, control.

Ball playing defender / stopper against lone striker formation, not the same settings against 442 for example, as he has a more covering role, so compared to defend CB settings which are indicated in letters, it looks like this, more or less a sweeper role in CB spot actually, nothing really new.

Mentality: M+6 (attack duty “+6” compared to defense duty)

Creative freedom: CF+8 (default creative freedom for attack duty)

Passing: 10

Closing down: CD+4 which is supposed to be the “advanced stopper” effect against lone striker formation

RFD: Often (+PPM get forward)

RWB: Mixed

TBall: Often

Long shots: Rarely (he doesn’t have a great shot actually)

Cross: Rarely

Cross from: Deep

Marking: Individual non tight

Wideplay: Normal

HUB: No

Roam from position. Ahaaha, I am still afraid to try “yes” on this setting but I think it worths a shot as at last resort.

Roughly, without role mentality adjustement and so on... my mentality framework

CBRight: X (defend)

CBCenter: X+6 (attack)

CBLeft: X (defend)

CMRight: X (defend)

CMLeft: X+3 (support)

WMs: X+3 (support)

AMCenter: X+6 (attack)

STRight: X+1 (support)

STLeft: X+8 (attack) default striker partnership

Thus far, I am very happy with the way the formation is working out. After four matches in the BSS Lewes (strongly tipped for relegation) lie in third place, unbeaten. The particularly pleasing thing is that we have scored 10 goals and the wide men are making a good contribution as a number of these have come from crosses. As I'm playing to LLM principles, it's not as a result of picking a load of better players off Player Search, either.

Of course, knowing my immense capacity for messing things up, things are certain to go pear-shaped later on! But these results suggest to me that the formation is fully playable.

Good for you Rupal, great to see it is working decentlyt, good luck for your BSS save! So finally what is your settings regarding wide men, if I have well understood you have choseen defensive wingers, attack or support duty?

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I've chosen defensive wingers on support. Played another game or two and was doing ok (1 more win and a loss to a 35 yarder in the 95th minute aaaaagh!) but, unfortunately, found that something had gone wrong with the save, which wouldn't reload - very irritating, grrrr! so will start over with a different team using the same settings, as I am fed up with this bunch of useless apologies for footballers by now! Will probably try somebody inspirational like Weston-super-Mare.....Will let you know.

Edit: decided, after all, to go back with Lewes. Will try again!

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It's been interesting reading through this thread. :)

No matter how well I think I understand different tactical settings, or how good I think some of my ideas may be, I've never truly mastered, or indeed, had any success with three at the back. It is the bane of my tactical shenanigans over the years.

I can honestly say that it's something I've never felt really comfortable with. I would really love to get a system with three central defenders, with wing-backs ahead of them to work, in conjunction with some of the more attacking orientated ideas I have. As such, I think I'll be a constant lurker here in this thread ;)

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Do you guys have noticed that opponent is likely to change formation to a 541 with a diamond midfield when you play a 3412? How would you react to such a change?

I have made a quick diagram to help you figure out what is going on.

137877Capturedecran20101120a15754AMpng.png

541 diamand is red, 3412 is blue.

That's pretty clever actually, put one CB on each one of my Strikers, a Defensive Midfielder close to my trequartista, my 2 CMs are marked as well by 2CMs and there is an spare player at the midfield in the AMC spot, while there is 1 striker against 3 CBs. Have to say, they have a very advance spare player right in front of my defence, whereas mine 2 spare players are at CBs spots

I am very likely to try a specific individual marking on opponent AMC with my central CB to make him really step up in the midfield and reduce his space ASAP, while my 2 remaining CBs take care of the lone striker.

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Have to say, they have a very advance spare player right in front of my defence, whereas mine 2 spare players are at CBs spots

I am very likely to try a specific individual marking on opponent AMC with my central CB to make him really step up in the midfield and reduce his space ASAP, while my 2 remaining CBs take care of the lone striker.

That is the fulcrum of playing with a back 3 NakS. When in possession he needs to step up to support the attack and create numbers in the middle, and same time usually he is the first player to initiate the attack. Remember Lothar Matthaus and Matthias Sammer...

That's the formation my team uses in the County League. Because the majority of teams play 4-4-2, it's just hilarious the opposition comments trying to understand and mark the 4 players in the middle when attacking, and even the wing-backs sometimes come inside as well and the strikers go wide and the AMC goes forward as a central striker, changing it to a 3-2-2-3 WM . Most of the games we setup camp in the opposition half for 45 minutes, but with a joker of a GK it just take one shot on target to score.

Another thing we cannot reproduce with this ME, and is part of the back 3 setup as well, is one of the side CB's going forward as a full-back Ajax style.

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NakS: When opponent change to a whatever formation with only one forward upfront, I immediately react with changing my defence to four at the back. IMO it´s important to teach your team to be able to change smoothly between three and four at the back (eg. Bielsa, or Brazilian teams often doing this). This gives you more tactical possibilities. Playing with three at the back vs. one forward is waste of bodies. ALWAYS!

Zico10: Haven´t experienced much with this but in the demo I had one DC with PPM go fwd whenever possible and he was joining my midfield occasionally. Maybe it could help a bit.

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I agree throughly with Los_Culacs.

It would be nice to switch between formations on a reactive/automatic basis. Bielsa's Chile could switch between 4 and 3 at the back without (I assume) being specifically told to do so. Although I also assume this would require intelligent players and specific training....

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Good thing is that in FM11 we can teach our team different formations (in match preparation screen) and then change between them quickly in the match. :cool: You have to only assure, that your players will be comfortable in different positions without need for substitutions (eg. I always train my most central DC to be able to play DMC role too etc.).

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I'm sure that Los_Culacs must know what he's talking about, but I've just started my resave with Lewes and had a good pre-season with four straight wins. The best was 6-1 away, admittedly to not very distinguished opposition. The point of this is that they were playing a 4-5-1! I suppose you could argue that we'd have got 8 or 9 against them if we'd not been playing three at the back. All the same......

Hmmm - need to think about it!

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I´m not saying at all that three at the back don´t work against one forward. But it´s too defensive IMO. Especially if your opponent don´t have dangerous fullbacks and is playing 4-5-1. Than your three defenders should erase opponent´s forward easily, your wide mids/wingback man marking their wide midfielders and they are in big trouble how to score. But eg. if you are chasing the game, you need more bodies upfront. They will keep posession easily because their fullbacks don´t have direct rival on the pitch and if you put pressure on them, they will always find an easy pass because in midfiled you will be outnumbered. It´s always about finding right soulution for every match, every match situation.

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Thanks guys for the input.

I definitely agree with you here Los_Culés, for example I need only 2CBs, 4 in the midfield in a diamond, 2 Wide Mids, and 2 forwards, kind of 2512 actually. The thing is I want if possible to stuck with the 3412 as it is the 3412 Challenge :). Especially make Mexes playing further on the pitch, closely watch opponent AMC and efficiently spread the play, just in front of the CBs to help keeping possession. Of course put a DMC solve the issue, simple! I like your idea of training your DC into DMC to have options during a game, clever call here.

CHALLENGE RULES

The other rules for this challenge are that you must play a 3-4-1-2 formation (i.e. 3CDs, MR, ML, MC, MC, AMC, ST, ST), however the instructions, player roles, advanced choices etc. are totally up to you. The 3-4-1-2 will be your formation and your baseline but you can use any options to change the shape you see on the pitch.

.

So what I want to do is, as you said, switch between "Mexes behind 2 CBs" and "Mexes in front of 2Cbs" styles of play while keeping 3CBs in the lineups to make my 3412 reactive, change shape and adapt quickly to both lone and two strikers formation.

I have tweaked a bit my central CB settings, looks like this know when facing lone striker formation. (Do you think put him in the sweeper spot can change something here?)

Mentality: M+6 (attack duty “+6” compared to defense duty)

Creative freedom: CF+8 (default creative freedom for attack duty)

Passing: 10

Closing down: CD+8 which is supposed to be the “advanced stopper” effect against lone striker formation

RFD: Often (+PPM get forward)

RWB: Mixed

TBall: Often

Long shots: Rarely (he doesn’t have a great shot actually)

Cross: Rarely

Cross from: Deep (do you think it can impact positionning as I don't ask him to heavily cross the ball, I don't think so but just in case)

Marking: Individual non tight

Wideplay: Normal

HUB: No

Roam from position: yes

Usually against this 541, I crank up D-Line to make him "locked" on opponent AMC, increase closing down of the whole team as well via touchline shouts to put them under pressure. Put one of my CM as free role as well.

Well, occasionnaly, the shape is a kind of triangle with Mexes helping in the middle, but he rarely has more than 15 passes (one assist in open play though, through the center of the pitch), CBs see a bit more of the ball as they play regularly down the wing to the wide midfielders. Put Mexes in the playmaker box???

Actually, I am pretty happy with the behavior of my wide men when they have direct opponent 442, 451,...with some tweaking I have achieve what I wanted form them, but have to say I am definitely not achieving the "libero" role well. The job is done defensively but I do think it lack aggresivity, I will put mentality to the maximum and see hos it is going.

Thanks again for feedback.

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just finished a season with athletico madrid, and won the league.

using a 3-4-1-2 system. it has really got my interest back into fm2011 1.1.

makes a nice change fron all the usual formations.

i can see my screen shots in my screenshot folder.

if someone can tell me how to put them here i will post in more detail.

thanks in advance

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Well, my attempts to see how effective the system might be at a lower league level have been rather sabotaged by the game deciding to give me SIX long term injuries out of a squad of 22! While part of this is probably just FM's usual bloody mindedness, I wonder if there is some connection with the system.

From the bits and pieces I've done, I think that it probably is quite playable but that there is something of an issue with player stamina. I feel that the system demands that players cover an awful lot of ground and this takes a toll, which is maybe too much for part-timers whose fitness/stamina levels aren't as good as full-timers. Budget constraints in the BSS/BSN or equivalent mean that you often have to sign young players or those who are past their physical peak and they are less likely to be able to maintain fitness and so on. They get tired in matches more rapidly and hence become more injury prone. It suggests to me that it may possibly not be ideally suited to lower league clubs.

I'll continue to follow the thread with interest but will start a new save with another 'old fashioned' system - using a sweeper. Given that I like lower league management and try to play to LLM standards, that rather limits my choice of clubs as there aren't very many sweepers about at lower league level - definitely an endangered species!!

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just finished a season with athletico madrid, and won the league.

using a 3-4-1-2 system. it has really got my interest back into fm2011 1.1.

makes a nice change fron all the usual formations.

i can see my screen shots in my screenshot folder.

if someone can tell me how to put them here i will post in more detail.

thanks in advance

You need to upload them to a hosting site such as photobucket or imageshack.

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as i said in another post had some joy with this tactic,

this is how i finished.

http://i1185.photobucket.com/albums/z344/scaffscazz/LIGABBVAInformation_LeagueTable.png

very exciying season down to the wire.

this is my starting 11 when fit.

http://i1185.photobucket.com/albums/z344/scaffscazz/CAtlticoMadridSADAtMadrid_Tactics.png

i found my wide midfielders joined in my attacks nicely with these settings,

although far better down the left then right.(same settings both sides)

http://i1185.photobucket.com/albums/z344/scaffscazz/CAtlticoMadridSADAtMadrid_Tactics-6.png

they key to the above setting is the cross to far post, and crossing set to sometimes and from byline.

made the players drive further up the pitch and create alot more chances, then any other setting i tried.

here are the team tactics, i didnt change a thing once i settled on these, no oi or sideline shouts.

http://i1185.photobucket.com/albums/z344/scaffscazz/CAtlticoMadridSADAtMadrid_Tactics-3.png

despite making this formation work, i think forlan is the reason i won the league.

http://i1185.photobucket.com/albums/z344/scaffscazz/DiegoForlnHistory_CareerStats.png

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was gonna sell simao. but glad i didnt he performed well in the hole.

http://i1185.photobucket.com/albums/z344/scaffscazz/SimoHistory_CareerStats.png

if i was to tweak any thing it would be my 3 man defence,

they tend to sit back and let teams play in front of them alot.

long range shots dont seem a prob on this version.

and i set them up, so they werent easy to turn.

more pressure on the ball could be the way forward,

but without leaving holes.

one more thig you need players with very high stamina

to play the wide midfielders role.

mine were spent after the hour mark,

and usually had to sub both then.

i will now see how i get on in the champ league and report back.

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I was getting bored after 3 seasons of 4-2-3-1/4-2-1-3 (depending on how you regard the inside forwards) so decided to give this formation a go. Having previously been frustrated by the wide players' position in a flat midfield 4, I am going with them in the attacking wide midfielder slots - they take up the correct position without the ball and in any event I just don't have the players to play MR and ML as I have had AMR and AML historically.

Tactic is working better than expected. The vulnerability is pretty obvious - crosses sometimes come in too often for my liking and if the DCs are drawn towards the ball then bad things can happen at the back post. But the potency of the attacking five is remarkable - much better than the foursome in my previous tactic and yet I'm not actually conceding many more goals. For some reason it's easier to feel concerned by teams rampaging down the wings but the less noticeable corollary is that no-one can play through the middle and prosper.

My setup is:

Sweeper Keeper (support)

Stopper - Cover - Stopper

Central Midfielder (defend) - Deep-lying Playmaker (support)

Defensive Winger (support) - Trequartista - Defensive Winger (support)

Advanced Forward - Target Man (support)

Team instructions are fluid - control with the other settings default save for more expressive - press more - more roaming.

My goals have been scored by players in the following positions:

AMR - 8

AMC - 2

Advanced Forward - 7

Target Man - 7

DC - 10 (from set pieces)

That's 3.4 per game and I have conceded only 0.2. With 4-2-1-3 I scored 2.9 and conceded 0.5 which is materially worse IMO!

Assists are more evenly spread with each MC getting a couple (not as many as I expected), plenty from AML and also the target man position playing through balls to the advanced forward.

Notably, possession is really high with this tactic, stemming from pass completion being higher - I think because the formation is quite compact and the back five (i.e. including the MCs) able to knock the ball about pending an opportunity arising. That's probably the key to the low number of goals conceded.

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as i said in another post had some joy with this tactic,

this is how i finished.

http://i1185.photobucket.com/albums/z344/scaffscazz/LIGABBVAInformation_LeagueTable.png

very exciying season down to the wire.

this is my starting 11 when fit.

http://i1185.photobucket.com/albums/z344/scaffscazz/CAtlticoMadridSADAtMadrid_Tactics.png

i found my wide midfielders joined in my attacks nicely with these settings,

although far better down the left then right.(same settings both sides)

http://i1185.photobucket.com/albums/z344/scaffscazz/CAtlticoMadridSADAtMadrid_Tactics-6.png

they key to the above setting is the cross to far post, and crossing set to sometimes and from byline.

made the players drive further up the pitch and create alot more chances, then any other setting i tried.

here are the team tactics, i didnt change a thing once i settled on these, no oi or sideline shouts.

http://i1185.photobucket.com/albums/z344/scaffscazz/CAtlticoMadridSADAtMadrid_Tactics-3.png

despite making this formation work, i think forlan is the reason i won the league.

http://i1185.photobucket.com/albums/z344/scaffscazz/DiegoForlnHistory_CareerStats.png

Can you upload your tactic somewhere ? Thanks in advance :)

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I've done quite a bit with the similar 3-5-2 now. Whilst the wide men play quite ok now and you get some decent games, I can confirm that the settings do put a pretty heavy demand on their stamina. Mine are utterly creased after about 70 minutes. As I said in an earlier post, these systems with 3 at the back may well not be suited to part-timers in the lower leagues because of this. It's a bit of a catch 22 - you have to set them very attacking and running from deep all the time, with whole pitch closing down and so on in order for them to make a useful contribution and this takes its toll. Of course, if SI would sort out the ME in this regard, you wouldn't need to do this!

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Here is my 3-4-1-2 for people to try, test it for a week now and played half season seating in top of the league with a very poor Wigan side, until the save crashed. Just started 2 new saves with West Brom and Wigan beating Chelsea 3-1, B'mingham 2-1, Derby 1-0 and Bolton 5-2.

So far this is the best manageable back 3 with this ME, because sometimes this game it's just unplayable with wayyy too many bugs.

Tips: Keep an eye on the RM/LM stamina as usually around the 60/65th minute they will turn red.

The Central Midfield right is the holding Midfield and if you have 2 pacy strikers and 1 decent AMC you're on the money.

Donwload Link

http://www.filefront.com/17610878/3-4-1-2 by Zico10.tac

http://www.mediafire.com/file/bqeix5i0dkhj5kc/3-4-1-2%20by%20Zico10.tac

capture0612201001501106.jpg

Team Settings - For you to keep an eye because there's a bug, sometimes when importing the Tactic the corner and free kick's settings change to default.

capture0612201001501106.jpg

Another bug is the AMC Settings too, sometimes it changes to default if players are moved around in-game.

capture0612201001501106.jpg

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Zico's recipe from last year also works this year. Wide players with maximum attacking mentality and RFD often are doing defensive work as well as offensive. In few games I've tried his tactic they don't always fall back but instead they press relatively high and retreat according to situation. However that might be due to mental attributes of players at higher levels.

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  • 1 month later...

I really wish I would've discovered this thread earlier...in November I made a 3-4-1-2 tactic with Sporting in FM 10. I wanted to re-create the tactic used often by Independiente in the Copa Sudamericana and Apertura 2010 (and looks like they'll use the same formation this season too). I put the middle CB on 'stopper' and the other two CB's on cover, and made the keeper a sweeper keeper. I put one CM on ball-winner defend with an extra defensive mentality, the other CM was a center mid on support. AMC was on attacking midfielder attack and was ticked as the playmaker. Tempo, width, line, depended on opponents (usually based on pre-match meeting).

I had the same problem though with the wingers. If I made them too offensive, they wouldn't track back. So I put the philosophy on fluid, creative freedom on more expressive, and told the wingers to run forward often and put their creative freedom towards the maximum. I also put their roaming on 'yes.' I put them on support and their mentality defensive though. Although they didn't get forward as much as I'd like, they seemed to do OK, although this may have had to do with the fact that they're attacking players to begin with. Here are some screens: we were in first place for the entire season until the very end, when Porto beat us (I had a problem against teams with a 4-3-3 like they do) and we finished 2nd on goal differential. We beat Real Madrid in the first leg but couldn't quite hang on in the second and the scored a goal right at the end when I put everyone forward. My team really wasn't that great though, I always bought cheap young players and sold them when they got good, and have a lot of young regens in that squad that aren't world-beaters by any means. My transfer budget is huge right now from all of the sales, tens of millions. Anyways, here are the screens and the tactic:

Liga Sagres final standings:

http://img843.imageshack.us/img843/301/ligasagres.png

Champions League:

http://img406.imageshack.us/img406/8694/europeanchampionscuph.png

Formation and players:

http://img402.imageshack.us/img402/5100/sportingclubedeportugalc.png

Team instructions:

http://img96.imageshack.us/img96/5100/sportingclubedeportugalc.png

Wide midfielder instructions:

http://img203.imageshack.us/img203/9601/sportingclubedeportugalf.png

Center mid:

http://img806.imageshack.us/img806/5965/sportingclubedeportugalk.png

Tactic: http://uploading.com/files/274m49c4/3-4-1-2%2B%2528Sporting%2BCP%252C%2BDec%2B2014%2529.tac/

In retrospect, the mentality of my wingers is too defensive, and maybe I could have put them on attack, but feel free to try it out.

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  • 2 weeks later...

One thing I've noticed when playing narrow formations with four at the back is that Fullbacks with Wingback role are more offensive than wide players in 3-5-2. In both 4-3-1-2 and 4-2-2-2 they bomb forward and position themselves like wingers do.

I haven't tried playing wide players from Wingback position cos it would be harder to have offensive/defensive combo on wide positions. Croatia had wingback Jarni on the left and strikers Jurčević/Stanić playing on the right side.

It would make formation 5-3-2 in match engine but I don't thing it is very much different cos the idea is to have players floating from defense to offense.

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Flat back 5 bug is the antithesis to all three at the back formations utilising midfielders in FM. Its born out of laziness by the creators more than anything else. The AI doesnt know how to assimilate these players with their individual instructions in this motif and thus plays them as fullbacks. Frustrating as it is, there is no remedy that leaves you ailment free here. Its a fault of the games design. That said, using a 3-4-3 with Stoke one has managed to achieve some remission. By setting yhte team to push up and press all over the pitch, your defensive phase commences whenever possession is lost. The wide-midfielders, closing down always on a very attacking mentality, equated to them being stationed further up the pitch. Hugh touchline helps too, though, of late i've had my midfielders moving in-field to overrun the central areas.

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Here is my 3-4-1-2 for people to try, test it for a week now and played half season seating in top of the league with a very poor Wigan side, until the save crashed. Just started 2 new saves with West Brom and Wigan beating Chelsea 3-1, B'mingham 2-1, Derby 1-0 and Bolton 5-2.

So far this is the best manageable back 3 with this ME, because sometimes this game it's just unplayable with wayyy too many bugs.

Tips: Keep an eye on the RM/LM stamina as usually around the 60/65th minute they will turn red.

The Central Midfield right is the holding Midfield and if you have 2 pacy strikers and 1 decent AMC you're on the money.

(...)

Tx for the great Tactic Zico, been following you from last year...

One question mate, what do you mean by "holding midfielder"? Is he a more defensive or attacking MID?

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  • 4 weeks later...
Nigerio - did it say that it was looked at in the change list for 11.3 then?

Would be great if things had been improved but I fear that there would need to be a major overhaul and I therefore doubt that we will see much change for 11.3.

- Improved AI use of full backs and wing backs

- Small tweak to make defenders cover their team mates a bit more willingly (maybe useful)

- Stopped midfield dropping back too close to defence too quickly when defending

- Make full backs generally get forward a little more willingly

- Made defenders more likely to close down advanced opponent running at their d-line regardless of how high up pitch

I'm absolutely not a expert tactic manager, but I think these fixes could be helpful to solve the issue.

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  • 2 months later...

Ressurecting a dead thread, I've turned my recent season around using the 3-4-1-2... playing in the Mexican Promotion League (2nd-tier), I've managed to turn a bottom-table start into a place in the playoffs (in 17 games or less). I had a pair of players (WBL/ML and WBR/MR) that were stuck out of the lineup between the 4-3-1-2 and the 4-2-3-1 that I had been trying to make work. Here's my setup:

DC (Defend)

DC (Cover)

DC (Defend)

WBL (Support)

WBR (Support)

MC-Central Midfielder (Defend)

MC-Deep-lying Playmaker (Support)

AMC-Inside Forward (Support)

FC (Attack)

FC (Attack)

The forwards were both well-rounded strikers with above-average pace; the specific roles set to their particular strengths (Complete Fwd/Poacher/Advanced Fwd/Deep-lying Fwd) but always on Attack.

Three players, the wingbacks and deep-lying playmaker, focused on supporting the strikers with throughballs. The support inside forward (had the perfect player for this), sitting in the hole, played a dual role: sometimes he would run at the defence and onto goal, sometimes add his own throughballs to the strikers. Playing the midfielders deeper and both forwards pushing forward gave him plenty of room to work, regardless of which approach he took.

I played very direct and usually attacking, so the wingback (support) role utilized the TTB=often/CROSS=sometimes instructions well. The ball was played forward fast enough that the wingbacks wouldn't be able to get to the byline for regular crosses, which was okay, because my forwards weren't tall targetmen anyway. In an attack, one of two things usually happened: (1) the wingbacks could send a quick counter-attacking throughball to the forwards, or (2) they could dribble up and given an extra second, find an open AMC or MC running upfield.

Three-at-the-back isn't en vogue these days, but it works for the personnel that I have and has been successful on the pitch so far. In the end, that's a good tactic, even if it's not the popular setup of the day.

Success playing direct/attacking, not sure how it would fare playing possession and slower...

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dank, thanks for posting that. I am looking at getting my napoli team to play 5-3-2 but with Wing backs, 2 cms, an AMC behind the front two. What would you say are the chances of this working are? I don't want my WB's acting like FB's, i need them getting forward and making crosses but to also be defensively aware. I also fear my cm's might get overrun.

I like playing a 4-3-1-2 usually, but i have two wide players in maggio and dossena who i wish to utilise.

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I just tested a 2-3-2-1-2 where I put the middle DC in a DMC role with two wingbacks on the flanks. The idea was that the DMC would still form a good defensive trio with the two DC's while also stepping up into the midfield as deep lying playmaker. The wingbacks have the flanks for themselves while there is a tight midfield diamond formed by my DMC two MC's and an AMC. I had some trouble setting up the MC's and AMC as they would get bunched up a lot but I still got a solid 3-0 against giving away 3 half chances while we got 3 full chances and 4 half chances.

The lineup was:

DC: Djourou

DMC: Song

DC: Vermaelen

WBR: Sagna

WBL: Clichy

MC: Denilson

MC: Diaby

AMC: Fabregas

ST: Bendtner

ST: Van Persie

I didn't put much time into the striker partnership and MC/AMC roles so I think it could become more deadly but I'm pleased with the DMC in the defense. He could drop a bit deeper from time to time but it looked solid.

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What would you say are the chances of this working are? I don't want my WB's acting like FB's, i need them getting forward and making crosses but to also be defensively aware. I also fear my cm's might get overrun.

I'm not familiar with the personnel on your team, but having a good pair of high stamina wingbacks is essential. Actually, find two pairs, as I find that when you really unleash wingbacks to push up, they get exhausted. I use the Wingback (Support) role because I have had the right attributes and have been successful with those wide players to providing counterattacking throughballs to the forward trio, but if you use the Wingback (Attack), they are instructed to push up even farther and send more crosses into the box. I just don't have the wingbacks and forwards to do that regularly and successfully, but your roster might!

The wingbacks will get caught too far up, yes, but I find that one of the DC's will push out and target the opponent's winger, usually enough to slow the counterattack and give your wingback a few moments to get back to help defensively. Sure the opponent's fullback is left open, but who's he going to cross to with 3 DC's (my +1 advantage) in the box? This has been my experience. I'm no tactical mastermind, so I'm interested to hear if this works out for others.

I had some trouble setting up the MC's and AMC as they would get bunched up a lot...

I had that problem at first, but found better results when I played with two Attack-role forwards pushing up and two Defend/Support players who stay back. My AMC is asked to play with a forward's expectations, but the support role lets him stay between those two FC/MC lines and be that third player into the box.

This formation has caught my attention in that, when working well, it should almost be like playing a "5-4-3". Those wingbacks are asked to play as really two players and when they can cover it, it does give advantages to both defending and attacking.

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