Jump to content
Sports Interactive Community

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

Martyr1777

Still the biggest flaw in the game...

Recommended Posts

60% possession, 18 shots, 9 on target, 16 fouls, 8 long shots (all misses). Opponents had 8 shots all but a couple were long shots.

Game finished 1-1. Oh and it was an away game for me.

So the flaw is I can't come out of that match and tell my team I'm disappointed by the fouls and lack of quality finishing because they'll all get upset that I don't give them enough credit. The team totally dominated control and flow of the game, it should have been an easy win with that control but there was not actual quality to the play, just quantity.

There is no way to effectively communicate to player AI that while their ratings weren't bad they still played poorly. A number of the highlights showed my strikers trying to be one man teams more then once, makes me just want to scream at them PASS! when there is a player standing right in front of the net unmarked because all the players are chasing him, then he takes a really poor angle shot or a shot with his off foot instead of passing. I saw both those situations in the match.

Sure you can make tactical changes to some things but not everything, there is no way to control your teams discipline. Like I literally have every player set to rarely take long shots, they still took 8 and VERY poor shots at that. You can set all the tactics in the world but if they don't follow them, and you can't tell them to get with the program without them whining then what is the point of having interaction with players, especially the negative 'pep talks'?

Another example... not 20 minutes into a match I had a player get stripped of the ball, he turns around and comes in with a vicious studs up, both feet, tackle from behind. I mean even in the ME it was one of the most blatant and vicious fouls I've ever seen including irl. Obvious red card, after the match I give him a 'disappointing' pep talk, everyone else got a good talk because we actually won the game. As I'm doing the post match cleanup he tells me he's upset by my pep talks, lol! REALLY?! He gets upset because I was disappointed? Hell He was suspended for 3 games due to that tackle and I gave him a warning for violent behavior and he accepted the warning.

So how about we get a way to tell the players to follow the game plan or tell them, 'we got lucky getting that result'. I know there is a talk that's 'it was a good result but poor performance' but it doesn't always show, there is the 'don't get complacent' talk, and it doesn't always show. The most useful talks are the most rare, usually it's just generic angry, bad, good, great. That's bad enough but then most players don't have any reaction due to talks.

This is easily the biggest flaw, you can't discipline players... you can try forcing some things down their throats but then they just get in a bad mood and play like crap.

Another example that wasn't in a match... Have a striker with 18 pace, he's not really that good in general but he's fast. Obviously you want to take advantage of that speed so I tell him to try and learn to beat the off side trap, he says he thinks it wouldn't help his game (lol, wonderfully moronic AI there for starters), ask nicely to at least try and he gets really defensive (because the new interaction AI is very clumsy, generic, and limited). The player is actually very stubborn, try to get him to do finishing PM's he says it wouldn't help his game either. So what can you do in a situation like this? I mean I know as soon as I have a replacement he's getting his ass dropped, but there is nothing I can do as a manager to get this player to play the way he needs to.

SI adds more interaction but it's all unfinished and limited. Not to mention very negative, unless you are complimenting your players on good play you can't use the interaction or you'll upset them. It's just too annoying.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Did not england have massive possession over moldovia but only got a draw?

I am not saying that it is not frustrating I tend to have less possession than the opposition and get reasonable results. As has been said many times possession is not the be all and end all of the game!

I think that was the point zeuSOr was making, that possession should win; not quite sure as he did not elborate on the screenshots.

K

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Those screenshots just told me he wasn't getting enough of his vast number of shots actually on target. Most of them were long shots as well.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think the player interaction module needs to be a bit more forgiving. You try experimenting with where the boundaries are for a player - finding out when to intervene and dish out some negative interaction - and when you get it wrong finding the line it can take months of positive interaction where you can to repair the situation. I've not really found the player personalities to help on this either especially as you have to go to a different screen to double check it anyway.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Agree about player AI, but if we're talking possession then no. Tottenham dominated Sunderland on tuesday night, did we win? No.

I'm not talking about possession at all really, that was only included to be taken with the rest of the stats.

My team totally controlled the game, but due to selfish play (strikers not passing), undisciplined play (16 fouls), and not following instructions (long shots when everyone is set to rare) it was a draw, and a lucky draw in fact as they barely scored late... and not surprising they scored when my strikers passed between each other.

So that sets the stage of the flaw... the team didn't do ANYTHING I wanted them to do, but there is nothing I could do about during or after the match. After I could have said I was displeased but knew that would just upset some players since it was a draw on the road. The best option (not that it would have had any real effect) would be 'good result poor play' but it's not always an option.

As for during the match, I already have everyone set to rarely shoot from distance, and this is standard for every match as my guys just suck from range so i don't want them wasting possessions. One of my midfielders has 15 pass and like <10 long shot, I use 'retain possession' shout, his long shot is set to rare, and he himself took 3 completely TERRIBLE long shots. But over all in the game he had a fair performance, so you can't attempt to correct the behavior or mold a player because the only option you have are 'good boy' 'BAD!' type of interactions.

I realize what I might be saying would be really complicated to implement, but it is still the biggest flaw of the game. The only time you can get on a players case without them crying like a child is if they really played poorly. But as a manager you need to have control to correct play that doesn't fit the team concept even though it might not have been 'poor' play in general, but you can't.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Why not say to the players that you're disappointed? Seriously, that's what I would have done. Especially if we were favorite to win. Doesn't matter if it's home or away. Yes, some may be unhappy, tough luck to them. Now they'll know what's expected of them. However, one way to keep the players that did play well happy is to actually tell them they did well, and tell the rest of the group that you're disappointed. You can do things like this. It's not that hard.

In my own game I've done talks where I told the entire team I was disappointed after draws, home or away. Some were unhappy, but you know what, those same players ended up improving the following several matches. Them being unhappy (according to the assistant's feedback) is not necessarily a bad thing.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Why not say to the players that you're disappointed? Seriously, that's what I would have done. Especially if we were favorite to win. Doesn't matter if it's home or away. Yes, some may be unhappy, tough luck to them. Now they'll know what's expected of them. However, one way to keep the players that did play well happy is to actually tell them they did well, and tell the rest of the group that you're disappointed. You can do things like this. It's not that hard.

In my own game I've done talks where I told the entire team I was disappointed after draws, home or away. Some were unhappy, but you know what, those same players ended up improving the following several matches. Them being unhappy (according to the assistant's feedback) is not necessarily a bad thing.

I've done such things, single players out for good or bad, told the whole team I was disappointed etc... never really seen anything come of it other then players being unhappy which can lead to them to not respecting/listening in the future.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Well you have two options. One is that some of your players may be special cases and need to be handled differently, this happens. However, it takes some experimenting to figure out what they respond to best. The other option is to look to replace these players with ones who are more determined or professional. Ones that don't become cranky at the first sign of criticism and instead will look to prove themselves to you.

I usually try to go for option number two as soon as possible. Have a certain uniformity of personalities in the squad. Much easier to manage and they respond to criticisms as they would to a challenge.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

All fine and good too keep people happy, but I'm saying I've never seen a players behavior on the field change after that criticism. Then as I said before there are instances where you try and mold a player like adding or removing PM's but they may be stubborn.

Like the example I gave, a strike with 18 pace and nothing else special, common sense says he's an obvious advanced forward or poacher and that exploiting that good speed means good timing on runs which obviously leads to the 'beat the off side trap' PM. They give a player a stubborn personality, fine, but when that stubbornness completely defies common sense it becomes stupid.

As a manager there is a very limit amount we can do to mold a team and sadly the easiest way to do it is just get rid of the players that don't play your way. I don't mind dropping players but it's not always realistic or even sensible to completely replace players over simple things that you should be able offer simple direction to change.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I understand what you meant, and if a player is not showing any improvement on the field, then perhaps he's one of those "special cases" that I mentioned earlier. He might need to be handled differently or sold and replaced with one of a different personality. Some players just don't like criticism and become upset easily, or think you're out to get them if you tell them something negative. You basically have to adapt yourself. Either figure out how to handle this player or get rid of him.

A player's pace is only a fraction of what needs to be considered in order to determined whether he'd make a good advanced forward or poacher, or whatever else. Being able to time his runs well takes anticipation, decisions, off the ball. I don't really see any reason for why a player with only high pace should be anything special to be honest. If he doesn't have any other attributes to compliment his pace, then he's not a good player. There are plenty of players in real life who are fast, but other than that they are simply mediocre or worse. Example: Micah Richards. Fast, very athletic, not much else, mainly because he lacks intelligence.

Not all players will be receptive learning new PPMs either. That's also part of their personality.

As I said, if you are able to adapt as a manager and figure out how to handle certain players, then you don't have to sell them. If they start performing well due to your management, then all the better.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You'll almost certainly (not 100%) lose or draw (a bit rare) if you have controversial decision(s) against your way. Ofc, if you have decisions favored to you you'll almost certainly gets undeserved (if your team play like sh..) win or draw... This controversial moments are always the decision factor in a match, just like IRL, quite frustrating though

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Agree about player AI, but if we're talking possession then no. Tottenham dominated Sunderland on tuesday night, did we win? No.

We dominate alot of our games fella n dnt win lol.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I understand what you meant, and if a player is not showing any improvement on the field, then perhaps he's one of those "special cases" that I mentioned earlier. He might need to be handled differently or sold and replaced with one of a different personality. Some players just don't like criticism and become upset easily, or think you're out to get them if you tell them something negative. You basically have to adapt yourself. Either figure out how to handle this player or get rid of him.

A player's pace is only a fraction of what needs to be considered in order to determined whether he'd make a good advanced forward or poacher, or whatever else. Being able to time his runs well takes anticipation, decisions, off the ball. I don't really see any reason for why a player with only high pace should be anything special to be honest. If he doesn't have any other attributes to compliment his pace, then he's not a good player. There are plenty of players in real life who are fast, but other than that they are simply mediocre or worse. Example: Micah Richards. Fast, very athletic, not much else, mainly because he lacks intelligence.

Not all players will be receptive learning new PPMs either. That's also part of their personality.

As I said, if you are able to adapt as a manager and figure out how to handle certain players, then you don't have to sell them. If they start performing well due to your management, then all the better.

I know you are knowledgeable Ace, but you aren't really getting what I'm saying... that's ok though since I'm not always totally clear.

The point I was making about the player with the pace wasn't what it takes for a given role... my point was it's ALL he has, look up Omar Cummings (MLS Colorado in 2011, to lazy to post screenshots lol), aside from his pace he's barely a good backup striker even in the MLS. But since his pace is all he's got going for him then anything to prevent off sides on his runs, like the ppm, you'd think he's be asking to learn it, not telling me it wouldn't help and then getting upset when you ask nicely to at least try it out.

But as if there isn't enough instances how the interaction system is fubar I just got more...

I told you about the game my players controlled the run of play but barely squeaked out a draw, perfect candidate for the 'good result, poor performance' talk after the match, but nope not there.

I just finished a Cup match, Colorado vs Seattle (so not a minor league team in the cup). Was a complete route for my guys, 6-0, most of the team has ratings over 8, the only ones below 7 were subs at the half (was up 5-0 after the first half) they still had 6.8 all the same. Guess what talk shows up at the end of the match... 'good result, bad performance'

REALLY?!

The system is broken, on the surface it looks detailed. But I think that's part of the problem, they tried to make it very detailed but left massive whole by trying to do too much. We, as managers, don't have enough control over the player AI, the AI is flawed, and the options that aren't always available don't know when they should be there.

The same thing can be seen in the transfer market, AI managers drop top players all the time in my experience for instance. But instead of fixing such a thing they add more complexity by adding a third AI, agents. Now instead of fixing player and management AI bugs that have a third level of AI bugs.

Edit: In fact it's a perfect case to use the 'don't get complacent int he next match' talk, guess what's not there. Hell the fact we play each other again in 5 days for a league match would think you'd want to say that all the more, lol.

@ the guys posting match results... learn to read, the match was only one of various examples of how the interaction system is broken, has nothing to do with actual results.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

dont agree with more possession and shots = a should win, as any team can be vulnerable to a counter attack.

do agree however with the faults of the player interaction, still got a long way to go in terms of features and improving whats already there.

players refusing to learn new moves, especially when it makes common sense is the biggest fault for me. Wonder how many times this happens in real life when they are getting paid to do a job

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
dont agree with more possession and shots = a should win, as any team can be vulnerable to a counter attack.

Ok to be 100% clear... I never said it should equal a win... I just was annoyed that the limited system doesn't allow for correctly poor play when it's fair result.

The example I gave I said my team totally controlled the match, except there was no quality within that quantity and there is almost nothing available in the system to try and correct that.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I see what you mean (it seems a lot of people didn't get it though, the point is not to come in this thread and post a screenshot of your 8x0 victory lol)

sometimes they'll ask in the conferences when a player miss his chances and you can complain about it or say it doesn't matter as long as he's helping the team, but there doesn't appear to be more options other than setting individual training or using the sideline instructions. what's worse, asking for a player to change his playstyle can even cause him to get mad and you have no dialogue options to apologize or say "fine then, forget this talk"

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

19 shots and only 3 clear chances? lol

what is a clear chance , be alone on post line with the ball on your feet and goalkeeper standing at the corner flag?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×
×
  • Create New...