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PaulC

Official FM2011 Match Engine Feedback Thread

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Someone else mentioned about the centre-backs moving away from the man with the ball...

I've just had that happen to me in a game, it was like the parting of the Red-Sea!

My defenders were all lined up on the edge of the area with no apparent danger; then the ball is passed into one of the strikers and the full-back went to the PASSER and the centre-back went to the OTHER striker who was already marked by the other CB!

result: a nice big open space for the guy who had received the ball to stroll into and fire one in the top-corner unchallenged...

...it really annoyed me as it was the only shot on target of the 3 they had... (the other two were from some way out and never going to trouble the keeper).

I'm not having the problems with one-on-ones that others are having though, in the same game we had 6 CCC's and scored 3 or 4 of them in a 5-1 demolition including my striker getting a hat-trick of which 2 were 1-on-1's (he also squandered a couple of 1-on-1's :( )

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Oh no SI :((( What have you done!?!? :( The ME is totally bad. It's a step back regarding the previous patch... I played around 10 games from my last post and the Defenders are just headless chickens. Totally agree with the Lazaru5 post. It happens almost every match.

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The ME is full of errors which was presented in FM 2010 10.1 and 10.2 with all those poor defending, lot of long shots from every position, one on one chances... I still can't believe SI made this kind of mess... The ME is the most important part of the game. You should do everything to anticipate this. This kind of ME should never see the light of the day :)

Sorry, but I'm very disappointed. And yes, I'm waiting reply from you to see what happened.

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The ME is full of errors which was presented in FM 2010 10.1 and 10.2 with all those poor defending, lot of long shots from every position, one on one chances... I still can't believe SI made this kind of mess... The ME is the most important part of the game. You should do everything to anticipate this. This kind of ME should never see the light of the day :)

Sorry, but I'm very disappointed. And yes, I'm waiting reply from you to see what happened.

You are seeing a completely different ME than I am. I'd agree that the defenders occasionally part down the middle, but nowhere near as much as in the 11.1 ME. Shots from distance are massively down. I don't quite understand how you are seeing all the above on a regular basis.

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well...

this sort of marking wouldn't even happen at under 8 level yet we have it in FM11... FA Cup 3rd round, and the first goal we concede is because of this wonderful marking... and we aren't to expect a fix until february/march?

1 = LCM

2 = STCR

3 = AML

4 = DL

5 = DCL

6 = STCL

Doesn't take a rocket scientist to see where the problems are, does it?

Eastleigh%20v%20Brighton%20%28TV%20View%29edit.png

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There not going to release a patch for every little problem found

the amount of over exaggeration there's been on forums this week is beyond belief

i know now why the games pegi is 3+

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You are seeing a completely different ME than I am. I'd agree that the defenders occasionally part down the middle, but nowhere near as much as in the 11.1 ME. Shots from distance are massively down. I don't quite understand how you are seeing all the above on a regular basis.

You are kidding me, yes?

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You are kidding me, yes?

Yes wwfan renowned for his gags

you be surprised what a few tweaks to tactics can do :rolleyes:

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There not going to release a patch for every little problem found

the amount of over exaggeration there's been on forums this week is beyond belief

i know now why the games pegi is 3+

wally, I know you are probably one SI's developers in disguise but that isn't a "little" problem... it's an effin great big one!!

We have NO WAY of setting PI's for defensive throw-in's ourselves - NONE! So we rely on SI to 'get it right' as far as marking up is concerned... and you need to be blind to not see that that ^^^ ISN'T right... not even close!

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wally, I know you are probably one SI's developers in disguise but that isn't a "little" problem... it's an effin great big one!!

We have NO WAY of setting KPIs for defensive throw-In's ourselves - NONE! So we rely on SI to 'get it right' as far as marking up is concerned... and you need to be blind to not see that that ^^^ ISN'T right... not even close!

Yeah that screenshot dose show your defence been a bit dodgy but dose this happen every game ?? if so ok but i bet it dose't

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a bit dodgy?!?!

Wally, did you read my other post? Where I mentioned the throw-ins and how the players don't seem to know who to mark?

Of course it happens every game, in some way, shape or form there are big problems with the marking at throw-ins

Number 2 on the screenshot is supposed to be my furthest forward player, and he is supposed to be ON THE OTHER SIDE OF THE PITCH!!! not marking the opposition's FB or whatever position he was...

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a bit dodgy?!?!

Wally, did you read my other post? Where I mentioned the throw-ins and how the players don't seem to know who to mark?

Of course it happens every game, in some way, shape or form there are big problems with the marking at throw-ins

I agree marking from throws need looking at been a problem for a while but marking in general for me is way better then its been and im playing in blue square prem

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Don't look bad!?! Can you see the number of long shots?

Yes 15 whats wrong with that you had 27 shot overall so im not sure what your getting at

try stopping players with a bad longshot attribute shooting from long range who did you play in midfield and up top ?

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I think long shots ( over 22 yards ) account for around 40-50% of shots IRL. Your figures are a bit higher but its probably down to PPMs and/or tactics.

The throw in issue raised above. Is it happening regularly to your team? If so make sure you send me .pkm examples and I will look at it for 11.3 :)

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What are you talking about? In 80% of my matches, more then half shots are from long range, and there are dozens of cc chances. I'm not talking neither about occasional phenomena, nor something I can prevent by tweakingplayer instructions. Although, I didn't start a new game, but I don't think it would help. There are too many proof that ME is broken... The physics and graphics is improved, yes, and player movement and ball control looks better, but defending, marking, closing down, long shots are making the game unplayable for me...

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What are you talking about? In 80% of my matches, more then half shots are from long range, and there are dozens of cc chances. I'm not talking neither about occasional phenomena, nor something I can prevent by tweakingplayer instructions. Although, I didn't start a new game, but I don't think it would help. There are too many proof that ME is broken... The physics and graphics is improved, yes, and player movement and ball control looks better, but defending, marking, closing down, long shots are making the game unplayable for me...

Oh no not another unplayable thread :rolleyes:

well lol your entitled to your opinion but for me the defending closing down is way better than it was and im playing in lower league

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OK, it doesn't happen in 80% of matches but will start a new premier league career in few days and will report my findings...

Paul, as far as I'm aware, you are one of the creators. What do you think, what should be improved regarding ME and which areas are the weakest?

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I think long shots ( over 22 yards ) account for around 40-50% of shots IRL. Your figures are a bit higher but its probably down to PPMs and/or tactics.

The throw in issue raised above. Is it happening regularly to your team? If so make sure you send me .pkm examples and I will look at it for 11.3 :)

That's by far the worst example I've seen since the 11.2 update, but I've only played 5 matches since then and there have been very similar instances in them all - especially in the defensive third. The other problem I've seen is that players don't seem to know who to mark at throw-ins and constantly change their minds leaving the player that they are marking to mark someone else (who is already marked) - I commented that it's like watching a barn-dance because sometimes that is exactly what it reminds me of!

I can have had match preparation on 'defending set-pieces' or 'defensive positioning' (as in this case) and it still happens, so I don't see that it is something that I myself can have any effect on.

I can try to upload the pkm's of those 5 games if you want?

Edit: I'll just add that we won 3 and drew 1 of the previous 4 games and I was always expecting to get hammered by Brighton (which we were :p) it's the manner of the first goal that galls me because I have no control over it.

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I'm having a few issues with my wingers since the new patch. I'm still winning but all my goals are now coming through the middle and my wingers ratings have dropped to between 6 and 6.5!

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What are you talking about? In 80% of my matches, more then half shots are from long range, and there are dozens of cc chances. I'm not talking neither about occasional phenomena, nor something I can prevent by tweakingplayer instructions. Although, I didn't start a new game, but I don't think it would help. There are too many proof that ME is broken... The physics and graphics is improved, yes, and player movement and ball control looks better, but defending, marking, closing down, long shots are making the game unplayable for me...

Can you post some jpegs of your tactical settings and formation? That might help us understand why you are seeing these issues.

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The whole match seems to have gone totally stupid now to me! The release of this new patch coincided with the end of my first season, I just won the league and got promotion from Northern Premier Div. 1 up to NP Premier League and I also won The Presidents Cup (what ever the hell that is....lol). A great season as far as game play is concerned even taking in to account the known problems we had in FM11. So I then install the new patch and sat here thinking, fantastic, I went through all the preseason and loads of things were going on that were not happening before the patch, things like, at last I'm getting clubs making bids on my players, at last all the contract talks are much more realistic, etc, etc. In fact I almost enjoyed my preseason as much as I did winning my league....lol...... BUT!!

As soon as I started playing my friendlies I realized the joy was going to be short lived, the whole 3D match seems to have gone from a bit silly to totally stupid. I'm kidding you not, during 5'friendlies' my team have been kicked to death to the point where I've stated the new season with 6 players out with long term injuries, I have had 3 sent off who are now serving bans and pretty much every goal I conceded was because of idiotic defending similar, if not even worse than mentioned in the posts above. I refuse to believe this is always down to our tactics, it's the ME that decides ultimately who does what and when no matter what tactics/instructions we use, for instance, I'm using very similar defensive tactics and instructions as I did for most of the last season but a defence which had the best goals against record for the whole year is now just standing around marking empty spaces while strikers just walk on by and take it in turns raining shots in at my keeper. In one match (still only a friendly) I counted 27 fouls in the first half alone, my team were getting kicked to death again to the point where I'd had to use 3 subs before half time, not a single card was shown! Despite the attempts of Predator United to mutilate my team we were 2-0 up at one point, then all of a sudden everyone took pity on them and started giving them the ball back every time they lost it, midfielders suddenly forgot what was going on and just stood around watching helplessly, defenders were even more obliging, they even kept getting out of the way so the poor sods had a chance to get back in to this vital friendly tie. We didn't really need to help them in this way because with only 5 minutes to go I got two straight red cards for my first two bad tackles in the whole match, they scored directly from both (naturally), then with only seconds to go everyone went on strike and stood around watching while a striker took 3 or 4 touches to get himself nicely positioned ready to fire in the winner. So I ended up with a 2-3 loss, 4 injured players (3 long term) and two red cards. Despite tweaking tactics and instructions this pattern has continued for the rest of my friendlies and I'm now starting the new season with most of my squad missing in action. I'm also wondering if the guys who don't see these problems actually play the match in 'full' mode? I watch every single match in full and I'm thinking maybe these kind of things do go on in most matches but you just don't see them because they don't come up as one of the highlights. I'm not sure what to do now, do I carry on with my save and hope things get better? Or do I uninstall the new patch and go back to my 11.1.1 version? ( despite all this rubbish, this game is still very addictive)!

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Same request as I made to olfud. Please provide some screenshots of your tactical settings. Better yet, please upload your .tac file and pkms of some of these matches so they can be analysed.

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Always playing 442, depends on opponent if play attacking, defensive or normal, narrower, wider, and slightly higher or deeper d line. Tempo is almost always in the middle, but playing quicker when chasing a result. OK, here it is. Every player is instructed to shoot "sometimes". Two forwards with creative freedom slider just in "much", two wide midfielders also just in "much", one cm attacking oriented, is high in normal (almost "much") creative freedom, forward runs "sometimes" the other cm is defensive, no forward runs and low creativity.

http://img258.imageshack.us/i/67119798.jpg/

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Always playing 442, depends on opponent if play attacking, defensive or normal, narrower, wider, and slightly higher or deeper d line. Tempo is almost always in the middle, but playing quicker when chasing a result. OK, here it is. Every player is instructed to shoot "sometimes". Two forwards with creative freedom slider just in "much", two wide midfielders also just in "much", one cm attacking oriented, is high in normal (almost "much") creative freedom, forward runs "sometimes" the other cm is defensive, no forward runs and low creativity.

http://img258.imageshack.us/i/67119798.jpg/

Looks to me as if you aren't getting enough players forward, as both your FBs are on Support duties. This will result in your attacks being very one dimensional and passing opportunities drying up. With your classic 4-4-2 set up, there also won't be much movement between the lines from your front five, which will also be very easy to defend against. This will result in a higher number of long shots at higher levels as opposing defences will easily counter the formation. Bit like they do in real life.

Seems to me you are mixing classic sliders with the tactics creator, which could have possibly made things a little unbalanced, further restricting passing opportunities. I'd need to see the pkm to be sure (NB you have uploaded it to an internal SI ftp. I don't have permissions to download it from there. You'll have to upload it to a public download site if you want any kind of more in depth analysis).

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No, there are here, you can log on to download them ftp://ftp.sigames.com/fm/game-pkm/

yes, I just make a tactic with creator, but then tweak every player. My FBs are just called support, but they are attacking ones actually. One runs forward always, playing with attacking mentality, one somethimes, playing not so attacking.

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No, there are here, you can log on to download them ftp://ftp.sigames.com/fm/game-pkm/

yes, I just make a tactic with creator, but then tweak every player. My FBs are just called support, but they are attacking ones actually. One runs forward always, playing with attacking mentality, one somethimes, playing not so attacking.

How much are you changing mentalities around? It's important to have some kind of logic in mentality structure or team cohesion will suffer.

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Depends on momentum. If need to run for result, I change the mentalities to more atacking. If need to keep the result, I change them to normal or even defensive. I always did that way and every real menagers do :)

Like sometimes to instruct wide players to cut inside, if my full back play a "wing" role, with lots of fw runs and atacking mentality.

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Nearly all the long shots are from Rooney and Gerrard, both of whom have the Shoot from Distance PPM. Two ways to stop this. Either manually reduce their long shots slider to rarely or use the Work Ball into Box shout if you have left them to TC settings.

There's definitely not enough running between lines going on, with your front four playing very flat. Only Crouch seems to drop into space. You also seem to be quite narrow as the team moves forward, which will hinder passing options.

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Nearly all the long shots are from Rooney and Gerrard, both of whom have the Shoot from Distance PPM. Two ways to stop this. Either manually reduce their long shots slider to rarely or use the Work Ball into Box shout if you have left them to TC settings.

There's definitely not enough running between lines going on, with your front four playing very flat. Only Crouch seems to drop into space. You also seem to be quite narrow as the team moves forward, which will hinder passing options.

It makes sense. Perhaps PPM shouldn't have that much impact or so? Will test that for long shots. But what about silly defending, closing down and free runs by forwards?

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The Shoots from Distance PPM just increases the slider settings by one notch. If you want to rein them in, you ensure it is at rarely. I haven't looked closely at the defending yet.

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Huh? Is this how all PPM's work? Increase 'normal' slider settings by one notch? Then what about 'arrives late' for instance? Sorry for going slightly off topic :-S

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I'm about to upload an example of the "on rails" wide play, in my example the red STCL Morgan dribbles out towards the corner flag even though there is plenty of space further infield for him to move into. The defending might also want to be looked at, I think the yellow DCR should run tight on Morgan and actively try to push him wide. However, it makes no sense for him to go so wide if no-one is forcing him there.

Pelicanstuff_wideplay30min.pkm, the relevant time is 30:10-30:20

By the way, the first goal in this match - shouldn't the men on the post react to the loose ball? I know they have no chance of reaching it but think they would still try.

Same match, 43:52, red DL fails to pick up a misplaced pass to the DCL, even though it passes right next to him he runs away from it.

I'm also still very unconvinced by crosses, they don't seem to have much variation in trajectory and are usually very flat and hard. I haven't yet seen a cross that ends up behind its target either (fairly common in real life), but hundreds end up in front of target. Indirect free kicks are a particularly bad offender, with too high a percentage aiming for the keeper's chest with uncanny accuracy.

Speaking of trajectories, the trajectory of attempted lobs seems very, very high.

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OK, I succeed with long shots and reduce them to some normal number with sliders for players ho shots often, but not my opponent :p They keep banging :)

And tell me, what about catastrophic defending? Too many CCC, to much gap in defense, and defenders just keep running, running, and not do anything to tackle the player with the ball...

Do you want pkms or you are aware of it yourself? :)

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One thing. You will not convince me it's in tactical setup. It's determined how will player react in given situations, how will they behave on pitch and it depends on momentum, on situation they find themselves which is given by their stats and ratings. And that is controlled by ME. World class defenders reacting, position themselves, and running and marking like street players is just a bug. Can you remember 2yrs ago when Torres went past Rio Ferdinand, he was running, and running toward a goal and scored? Now I have that kind of situations almost in every game (with or without scoring)

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One qustion. Is there a way to keep all changes included in patch, except match engine? Practicaly, I would like to revert match engine changes...

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OK, I succeed with long shots and reduce them to some normal number with sliders for players ho shots often, but not my opponent :p They keep banging :)

And tell me, what about catastrophic defending? Too many CCC, to much gap in defense, and defenders just keep running, running, and not do anything to tackle the player with the ball...

Do you want pkms or you are aware of it yourself? :)

I couldn't see anything weird happening on the time stamps you provided. I'm not sure what you are seeing that I'm not. I'll get Paul to have a look to see if I'm missing something.

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The ME looks considerably worse after playing some.

I see far more sloppy play, far too sloppy for the level I'm playing at. The most obvious part of it being passes and crosses just bouncing off friendly and opponent players who aren't paying attention or reacting to the ball at all. It's like they are pegs in the pitch deflecting the ball.

Beyond that I can't say for sure if it's just bad luck or changes, but injuries do seem to be up. Also I'm wondering if the 4-4-2 was just brokenly OP'ed in 11.1.1 and/or the match prep bonuses for attacking or defensing were much higher and toned down a lot. I say that because I play a very simple 4-4-2 with my team and they were the highest scoring fewest conceding team in the league (exclusively used defensive position in match prep), now aside from the sloppy look I mentioned earlier, my defense looks terrible in comparison.

Like I said, no proof or anything, but it seems significantly different.

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There are about 5-10 CCC's a game for my team. Strikers miss 1v1s 90% of the time. I score from pretty much every indirect FK I get. :rolleyes:

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So played a few more games and I'm sure now...

11.2's ME is no better, and worse imo, overall then 11.1 with 10.3 being better then both.

In general a lot of people complained that 11.1 was too easy, which to be honest I must agree with for the most part, but they over compensated with 11.2. As I said before the general run of play is much more sloppy, especially defensively. CB's look lost in front of their own goal. Balls bounce off players with their backs too it all the time, and I mean slow rollers and floaters not hard drilled balls. Defenders react really slowly. Sometimes players pause, run away from the ball, pause, then give proper chase.

11.2 was too easy so it seems the made the AI dumb to compensate. Things like finishing seem ok, most of the issues I've seen are more with the defense and midfield. Oh and there is certainly much more tackling going on, some complained there wasn't enough before, now I think there is too much at times.

SI, you need to start taking baby steps with your balancing, you are over compensating in trying to get it right. Make smaller changes, it's better to get closer to what you want and not quiet get there then it is to over due it and end up with the opposite problem.

Last note, to be honest... I'd say roll back to 10.3's ME and start and just trying to make small fixes to the fewer issue it had.

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If you really think 10.3 is better your best bet is to play it instead rather than repeatedly saying the same thing in multiple threads, because we wont be rolling back to it in any future release.

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