433: The Real Invincibles! (3 seasons unbeaten and counting...)

[michaelfrayne]

Is the Deep Lying Playmaker ticked as the primary playmaker and the ST ticked as target man? Cheers

[2vA]

yes they are.

[Kawee]

Looking at the poll, there's quite a few people (almost half) who think this tactic produces poor football. Those that think so, I would really appreciate it if you could clarify what is it about the football being produced that is not good? Is it too one dimensional? (highly doubt that.) Could it be that your favourite striker doesn't score often enough? If so, that is by design. I just want some clarification to figure out if the problem is the tactic, or if it's just personal preference.

[StoneColdA]

I think the football is great, lots og great moves around the field, the results are a bit more blury.. The main striker never seems to score much, and in general a lot of chances are missed.

[Kaiser5507]

the strike cann't score, Kawee,please improve it.

[Mike Dodgson]

My striker (Dzeko) has 28 goals in 28 games.

You must read the post and get the right players - Creativity, Anticipation & Teamwork for the central striker... then the goals will come!

I'm torturing teams with this, in my 2nd season with spurs - 5 points clear at the top, just into February!

[StoneColdA]

My striker (Dzeko) has 28 goals in 28 games.

You must read the post and get the right players - Creativity, Anticipation & Teamwork for the central striker... then the goals will come!

I'm torturing teams with this, in my 2nd season with spurs - 5 points clear at the top, just into February!

I have neymar, with Dribling 19, Finishing 18, First touch, 20, Anticipation 17, Creativity 18, Composure 18, Descisions 17, Flair 16, Off the ball 18, Teamwork and workrate 17. I think he should be able to just produce a bit more. 20 games, 6 goals.

[Flohrinho]

I have neymar, with Dribling 19, Finishing 18, First touch, 20, Anticipation 17, Creativity 18, Composure 18, Descisions 17, Flair 16, Off the ball 18, Teamwork and workrate 17. I think he should be able to just produce a bit more. 20 games, 6 goals.

If you play a lone striker it's better to have a player like Dzeko who is tall and strong and quite good at heading Neymar is not the player you want to play as a lone striker.

[StoneColdA]

If you play a lone striker it's better to have a player like Dzeko who is tall and strong and quite good at heading Neymar is not the player you want to play as a lone striker.

I knew that one would come, which is why I saved my other striker

Regen:

Acc: 18

Agil: 17

Bal: 15

Jump: 17

Pace: 18

Stam:13

Strength: 17

good techs and mentals as well. 19 games 4 goals. In my mind it is the wingers who get more goals - not the striker in this tactic.

[Flohrinho]

I don't know but I usually get the most goals out of my striker no matter what formation I play but I haven't used this tactic so far. But if you look at the Screen shots you'll see that Lukaku has 23 goals in 23 games so I reckon there are strikers who can score in this formation very well.

[Kevinmatt]

Great tactic working good for me so far, tweaked the striker. Though seems the wingers is the most effective in the tactic

[John_Cro]

Man, This tactic is the best one I have ever played. Why do you attack him so much? If you know anything about football then you should easily see why it doesn't work to put a striker with low balance and strength in FC role. Give guy a rest, he has done a wonderfull job. My Ibrahimović scored 10 goals in 7 league games. Also Bojan was the same, not to mention messi who has won every possible award in game.

Thanks man for the great tactic

[StoneColdA]

Man, This tactic is the best one I have ever played. Why do you attack him so much? If you know anything about football then you should easily see why it doesn't work to put a striker with low balance and strength in FC role. Give guy a rest, he has done a wonderfull job. My Ibrahimović scored 10 goals in 7 league games. Also Bojan was the same, not to mention messi who has won every possible award in game.

Thanks man for the great tactic

Take it easy bro.. He is asking for feedback and he is getting some. I think it is fair to say what you have achieved is no major one, as everyone should be able to do great with Barcelona!! The trick is to do great with weaker teams right?!

[Mike Dodgson]

Just won the Premiership with Spurs in the 2nd season.

Conceded the least, and scored jointly the most goals.

Dzeko got 33 goals in the premiership too!

Can't praise this tactic enough, solid, dependable & high scoring - literally all you need from a tactic!!

[442 is dead]

This is definitely one of the best tactics on here. I've been using it with Aston Villa and am currently top of the league after 17 games scoring 34 conceding 10. I did tweak it a little changing the Def Mid tackling from hard to normal as I was having to many men sent off regardless of who I've played there. Also have changed the CB roles from Limited Defender to Centre Back purely because I found I was losing possession too frequently while defending. The most satisfying thing however is that these results have also been achieved with minimal investment with only Annan a regular in the side. So well done mate. Will keep you posted as the season progresses.

[442 is dead]

Forgot to add my run of results has included wins over Man Utd, Chelsea and Arsenal, only one defeat to Man City away, and lost on penalties to Everton in the League Cup

[Jambo98]

I like the look of this shape and footy so giving it a go on my new liverepool game.

In season 1 I am having to use johnson and aurelio\konchesky as fullbacks and they are more attacking than solid. Carra is also massively to slow to play CB In this tactic so I have brought in Zapata and using carra as back up right back where he is far more solid than johnson.

Have merieles in the defensive midfield role, stevie G as the right mc and joe cole as the left mc. Have maxi on the right wing and brought in affellay for the left wing and both have started well. Maxi getting a boat load of chances where he gets played in one on one by a direct ball from gerrard or merieles. Just need to teach him to finish!

[Kawee]

Been busy with Uni, so sorry for all the late replied. A lot to go through today.

Man, This tactic is the best one I have ever played. Why do you attack him so much? If you know anything about football then you should easily see why it doesn't work to put a striker with low balance and strength in FC role. Give guy a rest, he has done a wonderfull job. My Ibrahimović scored 10 goals in 7 league games. Also Bojan was the same, not to mention messi who has won every possible award in game.

Thanks man for the great tactic

To be fair, I do appreciate the input, even when it's negative. Thank you for standing up for my tactic John_Cro, but at least these guys are being somewhat civilised. You look around the forum and things can get ugly sometimes, and I want to make sure that at least in my thread, things remain at a certain standard.

I'm not surprised your Ibra is doing well. No other striker fits the bill better than him probably, although Dzeko remains my personal favourite (until ofcourse my current regen came along and is ripping apart Dzeko's record.)

the strike cann't score, Kawee,please improve it.

Although I appreciate input these kind of comments are almost useless to me. Thank you for letting me know the striker isn't scoring, but can you please explain the problem a bit more? Is he getting chances but not finishing well? Is he not receiving good services from the midfield? Is he not getting himself into scoring positions?

We have people whose striker is doing just fine, and then we have people whose striker is not doing so well. Unless you provide me more information about your striker, and the nature of the problem, I can't really look into it now can I?

Take it easy bro.. He is asking for feedback and he is getting some. I think it is fair to say what you have achieved is no major one, as everyone should be able to do great with Barcelona!! The trick is to do great with weaker teams right?!

I understand exactly what you mean, and I discussed this earlier with TacticalGenius. This tactic was not meant to be used by weaker teams. It's so demanding, weaker players will mess it up. I can, and have design tactics that allow the likes of Everton and Fiorentina to win the league in the first season, but that's not what I was trying to create.

I was trying to create a tactic, where I had no player limitation, and see if I can bring out the best in them. Yes, I could win with Everton, but that tactic did not create as good a football, and even if I used it with Barcelona, I doubt I would have gone 3 seasons unbeaten (lost the final game of the 4th season to Aston Villa by the way )

I think the football is great, lots og great moves around the field, the results are a bit more blury.. The main striker never seems to score much, and in general a lot of chances are missed.

Sorry to hear that the results aren't going your well.

To be honest, the problem you quoted is not uncommon even for me. Again, you're not really giving me much to work with in terms of the problem. However, I can sympathise a bit since there have been times when my striker can't score at all. RvP once went through almost 700 minutes with no goal. I had to play him against a UCL minnow to break the curse. In the long run, however, the striker goal per game ratio is just fine, IMHO. Please provide more information so I can help figure out what's wrong.

Truth is, this tactic does not depend on any position to score the majority of the goals. Yes, the front three score the most, but the two CMs also score 20+ goals among them. This is a strength I'm particularly fond of. When I created this tactic, I wanted one that would have 5 scoring threats, therefore a lot of players can enjoy scoring the goals, and also, if used against other human players, it won't be so easy to counter.

As for the missed chances, unfortunately, it's a problem I have as well, and I have no idea how to fix. I'm very happy with the tactic. It creates so many good chances, against pretty much any and every sort of opposition, consistently. When players miss chances, especially CCC, I really don't know what to do with my tactic to improve on that. There might be a way, but I'm no genius when it come to fixing these problems. Sometimes, however, you're just unlucky or the opposition was simply defiant. All in all though, my players score enough goals from the chances they create, that I can't really complain.

Great tactic working good for me so far, tweaked the striker. Though seems the wingers is the most effective in the tactic.

To be fair, it was designed to be as such. If you really think about it, this tactic work similarly to a 4-3-1-2 or a 4-1-2-1-2. The striker drops deep to pick up the ball, and play in to the wingers, which is really quite similar to an AMC picking up the ball and playing in two strikers. But my idea was, full-backs are not as good a marker as CBs so they won't track runs as well. The striker dropping deep also creates problem for the CB pairing since a lot of time there's no one left for them to mark, so one of them follow the striker leaving an awful lot of space in the middle for someone to exploit.

My striker (Dzeko) has 28 goals in 28 games.

You must read the post and get the right players - Creativity, Anticipation & Teamwork for the central striker... then the goals will come!

I'm torturing teams with this, in my 2nd season with spurs - 5 points clear at the top, just into February!

Good to see you're enjoying the tactic. Dzeko seems like a cheatcode sometimes doesn't he?

Let me explain the striker role here.First of all, I said in my post he's the main guy in attack. He's the guy the attack revolves around. So he needs to be all-rounded. Does that mean he needs 15+ in everything? Of course not! But there are a few things to look for. In order to understand what he needs for him to succeed, it is vital you understand what exactly he does.

###Note###

The * sign indicates an important attribute, which if possible, should look to have at least 15.

1. Receiving the ball, with his feet, with his back to goal, and under pressure from at least one CB. He's up there, all by himself, under constant pressure, so he need to be able to handle himself since he's being asked to "Hold up Ball."

What he'll need are:

- *First Touch: Can't afford a sloppy first touch or he'll lose the ball too often

- *Strength & Balance: Need to be able to hold off defenders, especially considering CBs are usually big and strong, and probably been given order to tackle him "hard."

- Determination: Of all the players, he's probably most prone to be to being frustrated. He's being asked to do a difficult job, which especially when up against great defenders, he'll struggle quite a bit. But the team needs him, so we need him to keep on plugging away, even when things aren't going so well for him, or the attack will lose it's central focus.

2. Creating chances for other. He receive the ball quite often, being the target man and all. With so many runners (4 to be exact) all around him, he need to be able to pick them out:

- *Creativity: He needs to be able to spot a pass

- *Anticipation: He needs to know when and where the runner is going to

- *Teamwork: No point knowing the good run and spotting the pass, if he will (selfishly) decide he'd rather make a solo run past 3 defenders to score a wonder goal (unless that's what you want. )

- Passing: Not that important, surprisingly (or not, if you really think about it.) The passes the striker makes aren't particularly difficult. They're usually somewhere between 5-10 yards, and into plenty of space for a very good player (therefore not needing inch-perfect passes.) A decent rating of 12 will do in my experience. It's all about spotting the pass anyway.

3. Creating chances for himself. To be honest, the striker will have to create at least half of his own chances. He's sometimes too deep to be in an immediate scoring position, or often he's being marked so tightly that it's hard for others to create chances for him. Doesn't help either that our wingers (at least mine) concentrate more on scoring goals than creating chances. So he'll need the right tools to, first survive the the initial pressure (read: point 1,) and then, for lack of better term, "battle" his way through.

- *Strength&Balance: Same as point one. You won't get the chance to run at the defenders, you'll only get the chance to turn away from them

- *Acceleration: There's not enough space left for full speed running, so duels are decided by the first few steps, this is why Acceleration is important. It gives the striker that half a yard to do his thing

- Dribbling: Surprisingly, or not, not that important. I think it's a bit like passing. The runs the striker make aren't particularly fancy ones, like the ones wingers do. They need enough of it so that they know how to keep the ball, and not lose it along the way (like Walcott sometimes does,) but they'll depend mostly on their physical attributes to battle through.

- Determination: Same as point one. Battling his way through is a difficult job, and we don't want him giving up half way through the game.

- Flair: I haven't tested this attribute out for long enough, but I think it can be very useful when a striker is trying to fight his way through one or two defenders.

4. Movement to pick up the ball and creating spaces for others. He has quite a lot of freedom when you think about it. Low mentality, making forward runs, and free role lend to him being one of the most active player on the field.

- *Off the Ball: Obviously.

So those are the four main roles of the striker. Scoring goals is a given. This is true with every striker, so why bother discussing it. What's more important is how the striker score his goals. Some score with good finishing (eg. Eduardo and his finishing and composure) some with pace (Agbonlahor) and some with headers (Klose.) And in this case, it's neither of the three. At least not fully. Our striker does not need great finishing ability I find. Something good like 14 will do. He does not need pace because there's not enough space for him to use it. He's not going to get lots of through balls and space to run into anyway. As for headers, although I find my striker, Lukaku, scoring the odd header here and there, the tactic was designed specifically to limit crossings, so it's not that needed. All in all, the striker should concentrate more on his overall game, rather than the finishing.

Other attributes that are important for the striker overall game:

- *Technique: I feel like this attribute works like a multiplier effect. It allows the striker to, put simply, do everything better. Considering the striker has quite a large skill set, having high technique really does help elevate his overall game.

- *Decision: The striker is always given lots of options. There are at least 5 players surrounding him (three CMs and two wingers) and he also has the option of making a solo run. Making the right decision must then become very important.

- *Composure: Well known for it's importance in the finishing department, but for our striker it's general use is just as important. Our striker suffers more pressure than anyone else, so he will need to stay calm.

- *Weak Foot: Remember that this guy is surrounded by runners (4 to be exact.) Two from each side (Winger & CM.) Two from deep (the two CM,) and two from higher up the pitch (the two wingers.) So he need to be able to play them in. If he's only good with one foot, he can only feed one side, and that neglects two good options he might have. Also, it'll mean when he turn against a defender to score a goal, he can only turn to one side. Way too predictable. Look for striker who is at least "reasonable" on the weaker foot. Exceptions can be made, for example for those super regens with poor weaker foot rating, or from my Brazil example, Hulk.

- Heading & Jumping: Like I said, the striker does get the odd heading goal. It's always good to have another scoring option in the arsenal. It's also useful because the striker challenge high balls, especially from goalkicks all game long. But it's not vital I would have to say.

- Long Shot: Also not that important, but can be good to have as another scoring option. The striker dropping deep often, will find himself with a lot of long-shot possibilities.

Attributes that aren't that useful:

- Pace: He doesn't get to use him pace. There's not enough space for him, and the service he receives (ball to feet, rather than ball into space) also render the attribute almost useless. Gaming wise, this is helpful since lower pace frees up abilities points for other attributes.

- Agility: Also not very useful. He won't get to run at a defender very often. He won't be changing direction very often, and he won't be defending against very agile players either.

I have neymar, with Dribling 19, Finishing 18, First touch, 20, Anticipation 17, Creativity 18, Composure 18, Descisions 17, Flair 16, Off the ball 18, Teamwork and workrate 17. I think he should be able to just produce a bit more. 20 games, 6 goals.

I had Neymar when I was managing Brazil in this very save, and he didn't perform too well for me either (although still better than you, just about a goal every two games.) However, this is where improvisation should take over. What I did was I changed to playing him as a Forward-left, as an inside-forward, with the exact same setting as if I was using the AML. So in my Brazil team, I had an AMR, ST, and FL. Neymar performed just like the AML in my Arsenal team, and he was phenomenal, as you might imagine. Problem was, I had other great FLs to choose from as well, including Robinho. Good problem to have though.

This is definitely one of the best tactics on here. I've been using it with Aston Villa and am currently top of the league after 17 games scoring 34 conceding 10. I did tweak it a little changing the Def Mid tackling from hard to normal as I was having to many men sent off regardless of who I've played there. Also have changed the CB roles from Limited Defender to Centre Back purely because I found I was losing possession too frequently while defending. The most satisfying thing however is that these results have also been achieved with minimal investment with only Annan a regular in the side. So well done mate. Will keep you posted as the season progresses.

I know exactly what you mean. I get plenty of bookings as well. But you see, I grew up idolising Vieira, so it doesn't really bother me. In fact, it's good for role-playing purpose.

I like the look of this shape and footy so giving it a go on my new liverepool game.

In season 1 I am having to use johnson and aurelio\konchesky as fullbacks and they are more attacking than solid. Carra is also massively to slow to play CB In this tactic so I have brought in Zapata and using carra as back up right back where he is far more solid than johnson.

Have merieles in the defensive midfield role, stevie G as the right mc and joe cole as the left mc. Have maxi on the right wing and brought in affellay for the left wing and both have started well. Maxi getting a boat load of chances where he gets played in one on one by a direct ball from gerrard or merieles. Just need to teach him to finish!

Your fullbacks will do just fine against most sides to be honest. It's when you come up against the better teams with good wingers that they might struggle. At least they're fast so that'll help them fix the mistakes they make. I'm sure you're aware of this though.

As for Maxi, looking at him, I quite like his attributes. They only complaint I might have is his low first touch and technique. The first touch is quite often, the most important one. If he doesn't control it well first time, his finishing becomes a whole lot harder. This doesn't go well with this low technique. He might be a "good" finisher, but his low technique means he can only do the simpler finishes (although he does do them very well with his combination of finishing and composure.) So his poor first touch force him to make more difficult finishes, but his low technique means he's incapable of them. That could be a reason why. I'm just thinking off the top of my head right now.

Alternative Download link for anyone having problems cheers

click here

Thank you for setting it up.

Cheers.

P.S. I made a lot of comments in this post, that I think I should update on my OPs (especially re: the striker.) No time to do it now, but I will definitely do so soon.

[StoneColdA]

Kawee:

Thanks for you explanations. I have a top class team consisting of only Brazilians, but one important difference between me and the rest, is that I am playing primarily FML and not FM. So I am playing a lot of games vs teams playing Mr. Houghs 4123 system. I think that is the major difference, that I am playing against a human factor and also a proven winning tactic. With these conditions your tactic is not working for ME, but it is most likely wonderfull in FM

My brazilian team:

Diego Alves (GK)

Guilherme (DL)

Rafael (DR)

Alex (DC)

David Luiz (DC)

Fernando (DMC/MC)

Regen 1 (MC)

Carlos Eduardo (AMLC)

Oscar (AMRC)

Neymar (AM/FC)

Regen 2 (AM/FC)

I will give your tactic a shot in FM if the times allows it.

[John_Cro]

Can You please explain other positions in such a detailed form? I would appriciate it very much as this is the best tactic out there. You can make a pdf file in case it's too big to fit in the forum frames.

Thanks, indeed

[442 is dead]

Right at the beginning of January and second behind Man U but only on goal difference, This formation is really bringing out the best in Agbonlahor 19 goals in 24 games 8 assists and 8 MOM awards. He was also named among the subs in the World Team of the Year. Only addition to squad is Obasi, have also changed rw role to winger seems to have a difference to Albrighton's performance, Ashley Young performing well as an inside forward scoring 10 with 6 assists.

[DaLima9]

Very interesting tactic.

I'm playing with Arsenal, halfway through my 3rd season. I've switched from a narrow 4-1-2-1-2 because I dislike the clogged up central park, which doesn't get the best out of my squad.

I switched to a 4-3-3 similar to yours (but with a DMC and 2 MC) and am getting okay results. I will try incorporating your ideas to an extent and then let you know how it goes.

[Mr Hough]

Love this tactic, I had hoped to create something like this but with 2 strikers and 2 CM's but unfortinalty the defence isn't as good because of the 2nd striker.

Brilliant work on the tactic and also on the explantion of how the tactic works in the thread

[Ice-cream]

Can anyone upload to the other link?I believe the Mr hough'comment.

[vando]

I can not download the link please put another

[Kawee]

Can You please explain other positions in such a detailed form? I would appriciate it very much as this is the best tactic out there. You can make a pdf file in case it's too big to fit in the forum frames.

Thanks, indeed

Maybe. I don't have a lot of time on my hand right now, and these things take a lot of time, unfortunately. I got uni, and to be honest, there's this girl who's my priority right now

But I'll look into it. It really only take one afternoon to do it for the whole team to be honest, since I know this tactic inside out. I'm sure that the OPs are detailed enough for now though.

Right at the beginning of January and second behind Man U but only on goal difference, This formation is really bringing out the best in Agbonlahor 19 goals in 24 games 8 assists and 8 MOM awards. He was also named among the subs in the World Team of the Year. Only addition to squad is Obasi, have also changed rw role to winger seems to have a difference to Albrighton's performance, Ashley Young performing well as an inside forward scoring 10 with 6 assists.

Good to hear you doing well! I have to say, I'm surprised Agbonlahor does well. He wouldn't be my ideal choice of striker. Just show that even the tactic creator can be wrong sometime.

It's important that people sometimes make changes to the tactic, especially when they don't yet have the players to fit the role, as you have done. Who know, maybe you'll come up with something that'll help me improve this tactic further!

Very interesting tactic.

I'm playing with Arsenal, halfway through my 3rd season. I've switched from a narrow 4-1-2-1-2 because I dislike the clogged up central park, which doesn't get the best out of my squad.

I switched to a 4-3-3 similar to yours (but with a DMC and 2 MC) and am getting okay results. I will try incorporating your ideas to an extent and then let you know how it goes.

I never liked narrow formation like 4-1-2-1 either. I could make it work but the football bored me. Do let us know how things go. Perhaps I could use some of your ideas, if you stumble upon something good.

Love this tactic, I had hoped to create something like this but with 2 strikers and 2 CM's but unfortinalty the defence isn't as good because of the 2nd striker.

Brilliant work on the tactic and also on the explantion of how the tactic works in the thread

Wow! Mr. Hough himself! Such an honour. :o

This tactic could so easily turn into a 4-4-2 though. Usually it act like a 4-4-2 quite often during a game anyway because the CM takes turn pushing forward into a poacher-esque position. But you can also tweak it into a 4-4-2. I talked about it a little in my "Tweaks" section. I wouldn't use it on a regular basis because like you said, the defense is not as solid then, and since my CM consistently push forward anyway, I'm not losing anything on the attacking front. However, when I'm in need of a goal, or I'm sure that I have the game under control (I've had plenty of games where the opponent has 0 shot of target) I sub one of the CM for a striker, and use him as a poacher. It has saved me some games down the year, and also boost my GD. An extra +15 GD/season on average, I would guess.

Can anyone upload to the other link?I believe the Mr hough'comment.

Is neither one of the link working? I got mine uploaded on filefront, and somedevil also kindly made an alternative upload.

[Kawee]

Kawee:

Thanks for you explanations. I have a top class team consisting of only Brazilians, but one important difference between me and the rest, is that I am playing primarily FML and not FM. So I am playing a lot of games vs teams playing Mr. Houghs 4123 system. I think that is the major difference, that I am playing against a human factor and also a proven winning tactic. With these conditions your tactic is not working for ME, but it is most likely wonderfull in FM

My brazilian team:

Diego Alves (GK)

Guilherme (DL)

Rafael (DR)

Alex (DC)

David Luiz (DC)

Fernando (DMC/MC)

Regen 1 (MC)

Carlos Eduardo (AMLC)

Oscar (AMRC)

Neymar (AM/FC)

Regen 2 (AM/FC)

I will give your tactic a shot in FM if the times allows it.

Ahh, I see. I was living in Thailand, so I couldn't play FML. But now that I'm in Vancouver, I'm looking at the possibility.

I have used this tactic in a couple multilayer games, and (I don't want to brag) but I won both games (against 8 other people in total.) Admittedly, the match-engine does play a huge part! This tactic was created with the FM10.3 ME, so if there are changes to the calculations, then of course this tactic may not work as well.

Hopefully I will get to play FML, and test this thing out against other human players. Although, if I understand correctly, when starting a new club, you have very average players, so this tactic would not be a good idea anyway. I'll have to use one of my relegation or mid-table tactic to start with. But once I get to the level I can have good players, I will definitely try it out. One advantage I have over you though (sounds wrong I know, so don't take it the wrong way) is that I've been working with this tactic all summer, so I know it much better than you do, and I can make changes and tweaks, both pre and during games, to give me a better chance of winning in each game.

[mister_C]

I think this and Knap 4-4-2 are the best wingers tactics in these forum.

Just a question which team talks did you used ?

[vando]

Kawe me his opinion this is the team that put together Internazionale. Thanks

Julio Cesar (GK)

Chivu (DL)

Maicon (DR)

Samuel (DC)

Lucio (DC)

De Rossi (MC)

Cambiasso (MCR)

Sneijder (MCL)

Eto'o (AMR)

Modric (AML)

Dzeko (ST)

[StoneColdA]

Ahh, I see. I was living in Thailand, so I couldn't play FML. But now that I'm in Vancouver, I'm looking at the possibility.

I have used this tactic in a couple multilayer games, and (I don't want to brag) but I won both games (against 8 other people in total.) Admittedly, the match-engine does play a huge part! This tactic was created with the FM10.3 ME, so if there are changes to the calculations, then of course this tactic may not work as well.

Hopefully I will get to play FML, and test this thing out against other human players. Although, if I understand correctly, when starting a new club, you have very average players, so this tactic would not be a good idea anyway. I'll have to use one of my relegation or mid-table tactic to start with. But once I get to the level I can have good players, I will definitely try it out. One advantage I have over you though (sounds wrong I know, so don't take it the wrong way) is that I've been working with this tactic all summer, so I know it much better than you do, and I can make changes and tweaks, both pre and during games, to give me a better chance of winning in each game.

I dont want to argue with that

In FML we have around 20-25 GE updates since the 10.3 release of FM, so a lot of minor changes have been made. That said, the 4123 of Mr. Hough is the most used tactic, so the basics of the GE is still there.

In general as I said in the beginning, I really like the football, but the results are lacking - at least for me. I do like it so much that I want to continue to make it work. I need to cut down the errors my defenders make, and to score on more chances. A two footed striker may be the solution, even though there are not that many brazilian around.

[DaLima9]

Been trying a tactic very similar to yours for 15 games now. I moved my DMC to the MC position, and I use the same roles for my players as you do, but I have not done individual tweaks to them yet.

Results? 12 wins, 2 draws and 1 loss (Chelsea 1-2 away, in the 2nd match using the tactic). I've scored 5 goals in 4 different games, and 3 goals in 3 other games, that's an insane average.

I'm using Arsenal, and my setup still needs some work after I've moved over from the narrow tactic. I need at least one more good inside forward, and my defence could be better though my goalies make up for it.

My Team (7th feb, 2012):

GK: Akinfeev/Adler (Insane duo)

DR: Sanga/Diego Renan

DL: Clichy/Renan

DCs: Thiago Silva/Senderos/Vermaelen

MC(d): Miguel Veloso/Alex Song

MC(s): Jack Rodwell

MC(a): Fabregas/Aaron Ramsey

AMR: van Persie/Yoann Gourcuff

AML: Samir Nasri/Arshavin

ST: Pazzini/Tomas Necid/Bendtner

I mainly think I need one more fullback. Diego Renan is very talented and provides good cover for the starters, and I hope I can bring up talent from my U18/reserves in a season or two. I definately need a new central defender because I feel Senderos and Vermaelen ar kinda shaky in their performances, perhaps because they're a little on the slow side when you got the d-line pushing up.

I got a good eye for Lukaku as a replacement for Necid (Who hasn't performed despite his attributes and size) and my future starter after Pazzini ages.

Tactic works great, the defence is solid, and the offence is lethal.

[edwinteo]

interesting tactic. i'm going to give this a try with my Werder Bremen save. I won the Bundesliga in my 1st season using Mr Hough's tactic. Pizarro was deadly as the center striker. i think he will be excellent as the Target man in this tactic.

i think my best 11 to start with this tactic would be:

GK Tim Wiese

DR Boesnich

DL Danny Wilson

DC Mertezeker

DC Naldo

MCs Sami Khedira

MCd Adrien Silva

MCa Mezut Ozil

AML Hulk

AMR Mattias Fernandaez

ST Pizarro

Rotation players

DC Mat Hummels

DR Sergio Aurier

MCa Simon Vukcevic

MCs Lars Bender

AMR Marko Marin

AML Cristian Rodriguez

AML German Pacheo (youngsters stolen from At. Madrid, amazing stats)

For next season, i'm targeting to pick up Jozy Altidore as ST for the future. I rate him very highly as a strong, creative, hardworking target man type.

[Mr Hough]

Competly love this tactic, This is easly the best tactic i have tried other than my own of course lol.

Made a few changes to it though, Like the D-Line and also have 2 strikers instead of 1 with 2 midfielders instead of 3, Not changed much else.

Brilliant Stuff.

[Bealesy]

Competly love this tactic, This is easly the best tactic i have tried other than my own of course lol.

Made a few changes to it though, Like the D-Line and also have 2 strikers instead of 1 with 2 midfielders instead of 3, Not changed much else.

Brilliant Stuff.

Mr Hough what differences did you make to the D Line and which midfielder did you move to the striker role??? And for you to say that you love this tactic it must be good

[Mr Hough]

Mr Hough what differences did you make to the D Line and which midfielder did you move to the striker role??? And for you to say that you love this tactic it must be good

Yeah it really is fantastic.

I changed the D-Line to the middle setting, Moved the left Midfielder into the Strikers Position. i have changed a few of his settings to so that he is in Sync with the other striker and wingers but other than that it's still the brilliant Original.

[homebasedgg]

so with the barcelona midfield would it be best to have xavi-mid def, iniesta-mid attack, busquets/toure-mid sup

[Mr Hough]

so with the barcelona midfield would it be best to have xavi-mid def, iniesta-mid attack, busquets/toure-mid sup

Yeah that would be perfect because the playmaker is is the defending midfielder so Xavi would be perfect for that role

[homebasedgg]

sweet.cheers

[StoneColdA]

Yeah it really is fantastic.

I changed the D-Line to the middle setting, Moved the left Midfielder into the Strikers Position. i have changed a few of his settings to so that he is in Sync with the other striker and wingers but other than that it's still the brilliant Original.

What changes have you made to the striker, what role and duty? or have you completely made the individual settings as they are on your own tactic?

[legacalcio]

Super Tactic :O)

[Mr Hough]

What changes have you made to the striker, what role and duty? or have you completely made the individual settings as they are on your own tactic?

I'm not gonna upload any screenshots unless, Kewee says it's ok for me too.

[NeJebi]

Yeah it really is fantastic.

I changed the D-Line to the middle setting, Moved the left Midfielder into the Strikers Position. i have changed a few of his settings to so that he is in Sync with the other striker and wingers but other than that it's still the brilliant Original.

So basically it's a 442 winger?

[Kawee]

I think this and Knap 4-4-2 are the best wingers tactics in these forum.

Just a question which team talks did you used ?

To be honest, I don't think it makes too much a difference. I just go with my intuition. Read up on some of the teamtalk guides around here. That would be a better place I think.

Kawe me his opinion this is the team that put together Internazionale. Thanks

Julio Cesar (GK)

Chivu (DL)

Maicon (DR)

Samuel (DC)

Lucio (DC)

De Rossi (MC)

Cambiasso (MCR)

Sneijder (MCL)

Eto'o (AMR)

Modric (AML)

Dzeko (ST)

That is an amazing line-up. Just one concern though: Eto'o. He's only "competent" as AMR and is "unconvincing" as AML. So here's what I would do. You cancel the swap position instruction. Modric will be just fine with 90min down the left flank. You then push Eto'o up into the Forward-Right position, but keep the same instruction. He'll behave almost exactly the same, but perform much better because he's now in his natural position.

Cheers.

P.S. How the hell did you get De Rossi to come to Inter Milan? LOL

I dont want to argue with that

In FML we have around 20-25 GE updates since the 10.3 release of FM, so a lot of minor changes have been made. That said, the 4123 of Mr. Hough is the most used tactic, so the basics of the GE is still there.

In general as I said in the beginning, I really like the football, but the results are lacking - at least for me. I do like it so much that I want to continue to make it work. I need to cut down the errors my defenders make, and to score on more chances. A two footed striker may be the solution, even though there are not that many brazilian around.

I really do appreciate the fact that you like my tactic enough to work on it. I really do. Do keep me posted since I'm most interested in the types of changes you make, and it's results. Especially in-game tweaks because I think those changes are as important as anything when it come to defeating a human player.

Been trying a tactic very similar to yours for 15 games now. I moved my DMC to the MC position, and I use the same roles for my players as you do, but I have not done individual tweaks to them yet.

Results? 12 wins, 2 draws and 1 loss (Chelsea 1-2 away, in the 2nd match using the tactic). I've scored 5 goals in 4 different games, and 3 goals in 3 other games, that's an insane average.

I'm using Arsenal, and my setup still needs some work after I've moved over from the narrow tactic. I need at least one more good inside forward, and my defence could be better though my goalies make up for it.

My Team (7th feb, 2012):

GK: Akinfeev/Adler (Insane duo)

DR: Sanga/Diego Renan

DL: Clichy/Renan

DCs: Thiago Silva/Senderos/Vermaelen

MC(d): Miguel Veloso/Alex Song

MC(s): Jack Rodwell

MC(a): Fabregas/Aaron Ramsey

AMR: van Persie/Yoann Gourcuff

AML: Samir Nasri/Arshavin

ST: Pazzini/Tomas Necid/Bendtner

I mainly think I need one more fullback. Diego Renan is very talented and provides good cover for the starters, and I hope I can bring up talent from my U18/reserves in a season or two. I definately need a new central defender because I feel Senderos and Vermaelen ar kinda shaky in their performances, perhaps because they're a little on the slow side when you got the d-line pushing up.

I got a good eye for Lukaku as a replacement for Necid (Who hasn't performed despite his attributes and size) and my future starter after Pazzini ages.

Tactic works great, the defence is solid, and the offence is lethal.

I'm not sure if you're actually using a tweaked version of my tactic, or you simply came up with your own tactic, which happen to be similar to mine, so I can't really make a confident comment. However, a few pointers. I personally think Rodwell is wasted as the MCs. HE's not good enough offensively. He's my MCd, and he's amazing. Personally, I would sell Song because he will not develop into a player who's better than Rodwell or Veloso. Sell Song, move Rodwell into MCd (another insane duo for your team) and get yourself a proper box-to-box MCs. I personally recommend Fellaini. The man was an absolute legend for my team.

Regarding the CBs, I got rid of Djourou, Vermaelen, and Senderos all by the 3rd season. It was before I fully developed this tactic, but even then, it was clear these three aren't really good enough.

And yes, grab yourself another fullback. How can you confidently go into a season with only three fullback!?!?! We're Arsenal FFS, injuries is our specialty.

interesting tactic. i'm going to give this a try with my Werder Bremen save. I won the Bundesliga in my 1st season using Mr Hough's tactic. Pizarro was deadly as the center striker. i think he will be excellent as the Target man in this tactic.

i think my best 11 to start with this tactic would be:

GK Tim Wiese

DR Boesnich

DL Danny Wilson

DC Mertezeker

DC Naldo

MCs Sami Khedira

MCd Adrien Silva

MCa Mezut Ozil

AML Hulk

AMR Mattias Fernandaez

ST Pizarro

Rotation players

DC Mat Hummels

DR Sergio Aurier

MCa Simon Vukcevic

MCs Lars Bender

AMR Marko Marin

AML Cristian Rodriguez

AML German Pacheo (youngsters stolen from At. Madrid, amazing stats)

For next season, i'm targeting to pick up Jozy Altidore as ST for the future. I rate him very highly as a strong, creative, hardworking target man type.

That is a very good looking line-up. Do keep us posted. And not just on the results, those can easily be described by a sentence or a thumbnail picture. I would really appreciate any comment on the type of football your team is producing, and if you like it or not.

Cheers.

[Kawee]

Yeah it really is fantastic.

I changed the D-Line to the middle setting, Moved the left Midfielder into the Strikers Position. i have changed a few of his settings to so that he is in Sync with the other striker and wingers but other than that it's still the brilliant Original.

Is this what you did?:

When needing a goal I throw in an extra striker. I've done this plenty of times, usually when I'm dominating but can't seem to find a way through, or when I'm behind and in need of a goal. The striker either replaces the MCa or the MCs, depending on who was performing worse, thus maintaining the balance of 5 attacking players.The striker goes up next to my target man on the side of the midfielder he just replaced, and I use him as a poacher. This way, the opposition if forced back as near to their own goal as possible, giving my target man more space to work with when he drops deep, and it also means that whoever has the ball, be it the target man, the midfielders, or the wingers, they'll always have a target to aim for in the box.

That's one of the tweak I do when needing a goal. It's probably not as refined as yours because I make these tweaks in the 60th minute but you're using it as your foundation tactic. Does your 2nd striker become the main goal-scorer now? Sort of a creator-poacher relationship.

I see you also moved back the D-line, understandable now that you've lost one of your midfielder. Is the defense still as good? I personally find in this tactic, offense is the best defense anyway, but against the better teams, it's still vital to have a strong back-5.

I'm not gonna upload any screenshots unless, Kewee says it's ok for me too.

I don't mind people posting thumbnails (just don't fail at it like kevinmatt ) I don't like big pictures in my thread, and I only use them for the OPs, because it's simply the easiest way for people when looking at the tactic first time.

This goes for everyone please. Use thumbnails. Or links to pictures. But please try to keep this thread neat.

Cheers.

[Mr Hough]

Is this what you did?:

When needing a goal I throw in an extra striker. I've done this plenty of times, usually when I'm dominating but can't seem to find a way through, or when I'm behind and in need of a goal. The striker either replaces the MCa or the MCs, depending on who was performing worse, thus maintaining the balance of 5 attacking players.The striker goes up next to my target man on the side of the midfielder he just replaced, and I use him as a poacher. This way, the opposition if forced back as near to their own goal as possible, giving my target man more space to work with when he drops deep, and it also means that whoever has the ball, be it the target man, the midfielders, or the wingers, they'll always have a target to aim for in the box.

That's one of the tweak I do when needing a goal. It's probably not as refined as yours because I make these tweaks in the 60th minute but you're using it as your foundation tactic. Does your 2nd striker become the main goal-scorer now? Sort of a creator-poacher relationship.

I see you also moved back the D-line, understandable now that you've lost one of your midfielder. Is the defense still as good? I personally find in this tactic, offense is the best defense anyway, but against the better teams, it's still vital to have a strong back-5.

I don't mind people posting thumbnails (just don't fail at it like kevinmatt ) I don't like big pictures in my thread, and I only use them for the OPs, because it's simply the easiest way for people when looking at the tactic first time.

This goes for everyone please. Use thumbnails. Or links to pictures. But please try to keep this thread neat.

Cheers.

Well when i first moved the midfielder to the strikers position he had settings that i didn't think would work as it was too attacking, So i have set the striker very similar to the other striker and they both are banging in the goals aswell as the wingers too.

I have to say though and i wish i had made this tactic because it's incredible, You have done a fantastic job here and i am really enjoying the football on the pitch.

Would it be ok if i provided a link to the tweaked tactic and screens on my thread, Obviusly i would give you major credit all i have done is make a few simple tweaks but as you say i don't wanna have people asking me loads of questions and stuff as this is your thread.

If you don't want me to then thats fine.

[Recoil]

Was looking for a tactic with a bit of difference and came upon this thread. I would have given it a go anyway, but if tactics God Dave (Mr Hough) says "I wish I had made this tactic" then that's good enough for me!!! Lets pop it up the FM flagpole and see how it flies.

[2vA]

i wish i had made this tactic

thread & tactic officially blessed

[edwinteo]

That is a very good looking line-up. Do keep us posted. And not just on the results, those can easily be described by a sentence or a thumbnail picture. I would really appreciate any comment on the type of football your team is producing, and if you like it or not.

Cheers.

Had a quick game yesterday, unfortunately due to playing a mid week Supercup match with Real Madrid (lost on penalties, so unlucky)

in place of my new signings Hulk and Matias Fernandez on the wings, i had to use my backups Marko Marin and Cristian Rodriguez. Unfortunately the lack of Inside Forward quality was the difference.

i was playing Wolfsburg away and although i was dominating possession i could not convert my chances. several times, both inside forwards were played through, but they were forced wide and couldnt get an angle to shoot at goal. when they were allowed to receive the pass goal side, there was not enough space to operate and the keeper covered the angle and smothered the ball at their feet.

also, playing Ozil at MCa didnt really help to bring the best out of him i feel. because he starts out at the MC position plus being left of the mid 3, he and the MCs leave the AMC position (ie. the hole) relatively vacant. somehow the Target man doesnt really come deep into the hole. the opposing DMC stays solid in the hole, and passes from the MCa and MCs get intercepted easily. good quality forward passes came from the FBs and MCd played over the top, but then as mentioned earlier, space was limited and attack smothered.

what i did like was the defensive part. Possession was over 60% for most of the game for me. Wolfsburg's forwards couldnt get going, and with Dzeko leading the line that is something! I took a gamble by playing Mertezeker (pace and acceleration about 11-12) because he was good in the air and it proved a master stroke. Naldo as much quicker so i positioned him as the Cover and Mertezeker as the Stopper.

Things i will try next. I will lower mentality across the team to have them position themselves lower on the pitch to start their attacks, ie. force the opposition to come out of their penalty box and more space for the inside forwards to run into behind them. I'll keep the RFD on often for the inside forwards as i need them to be constantly breaking the offside trap.

I think i will also reduce the width to last notch of wide. playing at max. width seems to reduce the angle at goal from the wings. ie. player cutting in from touchline often gets pushed to the near post and not diagonally towards goal for a shot, unless the player can really bend it like beckam, across the keeper and bending in at the far post. hopefully with inside forwards starting wide but not at the touchline, they have the option of turning their marker out or in.

lastly, i was thinking of dropping MCd into the DMCc position and therefore 'tightening' the MCs. MCa and MCs will play more centrally. the idea is that instead of playing on the left and right of the Hole position, hopefully 1 of them will drift in and force the DMC to commit.

any comments?

[Falahk]

i intend to give this a try, maybe i can even drag some insperation from it for my own 4-1-2-2-1 hyper wide winger tactic, I gotta say im very impressed by the amounts of goals your team have scored Kawee

[Kawee]

Well when i first moved the midfielder to the strikers position he had settings that i didn't think would work as it was too attacking, So i have set the striker very similar to the other striker and they both are banging in the goals aswell as the wingers too.

I have to say though and i wish i had made this tactic because it's incredible, You have done a fantastic job here and i am really enjoying the football on the pitch.

Would it be ok if i provided a link to the tweaked tactic and screens on my thread, Obviusly i would give you major credit all i have done is make a few simple tweaks but as you say i don't wanna have people asking me loads of questions and stuff as this is your thread.

If you don't want me to then thats fine.

I can see how that would work. Like the midfielder, they probably take turn dropping deep to pick up the ball, and the other would make the run in behind the defense. With a lethal striker, and the two wingers making the run, I would hate to be on the receiving end of that kind of attack!

I'm going to go on a mini-monologue here, so bare with me for a minute.

First of all, yes you may provide a link to your tweaked tactic and screens in your thread. You've made the changes, so after all, it is your tactic. There is no such thing as a 100% original tactic anyway. We either draw inspiration from other famous tactic creators (such as yourself) or from real-life (eg. Justified and his Project Mourinho.)

I think it's vital that there is a culture of sharing in this forum. I believe that when you post a tactic on this forum, you should be willing to let others work on it, in their own way. If they come up with their own version, then great! You shouldn't feel like someone is stealing your work. If they make the changes (not something stupid like one change of one players mentality one notch to the right) then it is their tactic. You should be proud that someone has created a tactic using yours as his foundation. Perhaps you will even learn something new. It's what make this forum so great!

It's like the world of scholars and research. Intellectuals all around the world, pick up each others' work, criticize it, and then they come up with their own research and publish it. The progress is unending as people try new things all the time. As people share ideas, new knowledge is created.

If we withhold our tactics, like it's some kind of copyright billion-dollar-making ideas, then that kills the flow of innovation. And that is not what we're after. This forum is there so that everyone can give their two cents, and hopefully everyone can find the "right" tactic for them, and if not, they can come up with their own, with the help of others, and share it to the rest.

Of course there have to be some rules. In research, you have to cite all your studies. You have to acknowledge the people that contribute to your work. So is the case with this forum. It should be a culture within this forum. For example, I clearly state (although perhaps not clearly enough) that I use the Nike Defense. It is the foundation of my defense, and people should know that. It is not my work. It is the work of others, that I have adopted, and incorporate it into my own tactic. There is no shame in using other people's work to inspire our own. You should be proud that you can take a good solid tactic, and improve or diversify it. Just acknowledge the contributions other people's work had on your work. In some cases, you may have to ask permission. Do ask them, since you'd want people to ask you for permission too!

So back to you Mr. Hough. Yes, you may. I'm sure you've made enough changes to the tactic to call it your own. For a start, it's not even a 4-3-3! Just make sure you give me credit for it, and that all the talk is in your thread.

Cheers.