pandel

Is there any chance for a 10.4 patch ?

107 posts in this topic

Let's accept that SI will produce a new Football Manager title every year, whether through choice or producer demands.

Now, they have a limited number of programmers, somewhere about 60 I think? Let's assume what they've tried to do since FM09 came out in late October...

They instantly need to respond to the millions of hours of new testing from new buyers, and must dedicate their time towards fixing any mistakes in FM09. Lets guess that everyone at SI will do this, combing through reams of code written by other programmers, or maybe even themselves, but months ago, trying to solve problems and small errors. By the end of November, a new patch is released fixing the major errors.

Now, they can look at making FM10, and all the team can gather round, and discuss what they can do in it; which programmers can make what, and how will they do it. Now, about half of the team can crack on with new features, while the other half go back to FM09 to work out the problems in the new patch, and add in the data updates. At the end of January, another patch comes out.

Now, the whole team gets on with FM10 for a bit, before a third of them go back to try and perfect a little bit more of FM09 for the third patch, before they can finally all get back to FM10 for about 3 and a half months, before having to turn it over to testing, which helps them sort out the biggest mistakes. All of the testing done pre-release will be equivalent to about 1% of the number of hours done by new purchasers in just the first week of release. They finally hand it over in September sometime.

Now though, imagine that they're supporting all of the past FM's, so two thirds of the team are busy combing through FM editions from 2005 rather than working on the new product. Do you really think that the new FM would have anywhere near the number of new features?

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It's simple. There's no commercially viable way to release a bug free football management game. We either have FM in the state it's normally released in, or we don't have it at all.

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[quote name='tom_15390']
They make few changes, but iron out almost every kink. Successive FIFA games are almost identical, you need to buy every other year to see the difference. With FM, sure it's a bit buggy, but it's all new. Surely you want as different a game as possible for $80 a pop?[/QUOTE]

I'm only paying $49. I pre-orded it on zavvy or whatever the website is called, a UK games site, that cost includes postage.

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You wanna tell that Aussie feller up there ^^ He's paying well over the odds.

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please also keep in mind every 4 releases, the game has a new look to it. Dunno what number they are up to now with the current look

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[quote name='tom_15390']You wanna tell that Aussie feller up there ^^ He's paying well over the odds.[/QUOTE]

well at ebgames here, its between $80-$100 but if you look hard enough you can get it near on half that from overseas. And the overseas release is generally earlier than the Australian release

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[quote name='tom_15390']An almost 3 guaranteed free fixes, with all the assoc. free data updates, and almost limitless data edits that the user can make? All for what can usually be picked up for £20-25 on release day?

I'd say SI do plenty for the user for a yearly release. I see what you're saying that they could do two-yearly releases, but surely that would limit them to tweaking the current game, rather than the more large-scale changes we're used to every year?[/QUOTE]

Wow! Free Fixes? You mean if they release something that does not work we don`t have pay to get it fixed?

You do realise that in any other industry thats a right, not a privilage?

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[quote name='Wiitastic']well at ebgames here, its between $80-$100 but if you look hard enough you can get it near on half that from overseas. And the overseas release is generally earlier than the Australian release[/QUOTE]

Come to Irelan, for FM10 I was able to buy it for €34.99 on day two, with a shiny DVD and spiffy manual just by wandering around Cork for all of 15 minutes.

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[quote name='Legion22']Wow! Free Fixes? You mean if they release something that does not work we don`t have pay to get it fixed?

You do realise that in any other industry thats a right, not a privilage?[/QUOTE]

What more do you want though? We're guaranteed that we'll get 3 of them over the course of a year based on user feedback. As for right, not a privilege, it depends on the business - almost every anti-virus programme will stop updating until you give them more money.

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[quote name='tom_15390']What more do you want though? We're guaranteed that we'll get 3 of them over the course of a year based on user feedback. As for right, not a privilege, it depends on the business - almost every anti-virus programme will stop updating until you give them more money.[/QUOTE]

I am simply pointing out that for some reason we accept lower standards from software companies than we do anyonw else. Every other industry is obliged to provide goods or services that work, are fit for purpose and safe. Its the law.


Updating your anti-virus is not the same thing.

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[quote name='Legion22']I am simply pointing out that for some reason we accept lower standards from software companies than we do anyonw else. Every other industry is obliged to provide goods or services that work, are fit for purpose and safe. Its the law.


Updating your anti-virus is not the same thing.[/QUOTE]

FM does work, it is fit for purpose and safe. It has minor defects, but the majority of players aren't affected by them. I've invested over 200 hours into FM (all post 10.3) and not had anything to complain about. Computer software is about the most complex thing man has ever created, something like FM will have hundreds of thousands, if not millions, of lines of code to make it work. There is absolutely zero chance of them [B]ever[/B] getting everything right, there's a reason every single computer game needs 1 or 2 patches post release. Even Valve, who are notorious for taking months and months to test their games to virtual destruction, have to patch games for things that users say are obvious and gamebreakers within days of release.

The fact of the matter is with only a limited number of employees, SI can only test so much of the game. They will target the most important areas of the game and any bugs will be graded by seriousness and how much they affect the gameplay. SI release the game [B]knowing [/B]there are bugs to be fixed, because if they don't release it they don't make money. We deal with it because we know the game will be patched and there will be support post release.

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first of all i complain a little because i am a fan. i want to have a perfect game because i play in fm world for more than 5 or 6 years.

there are solutions if they have limited employees. make simple guys like us beta testers. personally i dont have time but i m sure that many of you would be more than happy to help !

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[quote name='Legion22'] Every other industry is obliged to provide goods or services that work, are fit for purpose and safe.[/QUOTE]

This is the point I am trying to highlight. FM is a good, not a service. It is indeed fit for purpose as you can play it. You can point out the issue with the Greek leagues but it does not stop you from playing the game. You can claim that you cannot play the game [I]in the manner you want to[/I] but this is not a violation of any consumer right. Whether you like it or not, you are not [I]owed[/I] any support. Until FM becomes subscription-based, you should treat every patch as a bonus.

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[quote name='pandel']there are solutions if they have limited employees. make simple guys like us beta testers. personally i dont have time but i m sure that many of you would be more than happy to help ![/QUOTE]

That's a solution to nothing. Let's imagine that in the opening week, 1 million people acquire the game and play it for one hour, so a million hours of game time. Lets imagine 500 people immediately set off long-term holiday games running to 2100.

You're instead wanting to give 500,000 of these people a free copy of the game to check for errors, and hope that they'll still buy another copy after? Not a chance. If anything, they already do this with the user feedback / patches.

Just to add a bit more, I haven't found a football management game to frequently crash or have game-stopping errors since CM4 and FM05. Everything else has been trivial.

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[quote name='Legion22']I am simply pointing out that for some reason we accept lower standards from software companies than we do anyonw else. Every other industry is obliged to provide goods or services that work, are fit for purpose and safe. Its the law.


Updating your anti-virus is not the same thing.[/QUOTE]

Yes it's the law and SI follows the law as they give a game that you can stick into the drive (in the vast majority of cases) and install and play away to your hearts' content. What you're doing is the equivalent of buying a book from an author you don't like and finding the book contains all the thinks you don't like about the authors' style, and then going back to the seller and demanding a refund, or alternatively buying a car and finding the radio only goes up to 98 on the FM dial and demanding a new car gratis.
Also let me point out the law says that you go back to the vendor (whom you have the contract with) in the occasions that the product or service is not fit for purpose, not the manufacturer. So if you think the game is unplayable go to the place you purchased it off and try to complain and look for a refund. They'll ask "does the game not install, or otherwise render itself unplayable, due to no fault of your own?" and you'll say "oh yes, Brazil managers keep getting sacked this makes it unplayable ", and do you know what, the shop will have to be closed down for the day due to the staff not being able to stop laughing at you.

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Anyone suggesting that SI are breaking the law by releasing a game with minor faults or errors, think about this:

The game cannot be perfect. Fact. It can't. The analogy of the book is a very good one. Often, "bugs" are just aspects of the game people don't like. Press conferences are not "broken", they're just rubbish. The "corner bug" doesn't NEED to be implemented. The Brazil manager thing is annoying, but not a game breaker. But the game works as well as it can.

Back to the book analogy - someone may think that bending the laws of physics in science fiction book is cheating and therefore not the book they want. But it's still a book. On the sleeve it will have said what the book is about but won't have gone in THAT much detail; yet, when buying a sci-fi book, you KNOW you have to suspend your disbelief to some extent. Or some Creationist releases a book explaining why evolution never happened (they have and continue to do so), despite the fact that everything in those books can be refuted by GCSE science students, but they are released anyway. Is it "faulty" because the content is provably wrong? Of course not. But it's still a book. On the sleeve it will say, "This book contains proof that Adam and Eve were the first man and woman alive, that God created them, and they [somehow] spawned the entire human race without resorting to incest, (but this book won't say how)."

SI release the best game they can. It's a football game with near-infinite possibilities within the match engine alone.

But first, they release a FREE demo. That demo usually contains some faults, but SI will post on this site which ones they've fixed with the day-one patch and which ones they are are going to have fix slightly later. You then buy the game based on the knowledge that you have gleaned via that process.

No one can say they don't know what they are getting into with Football Manager. There will always be faults (and bits some people just don't like). And if the law ever states that the game has to be real-life perfect, SI would never release another game and you'd be stuck with FM10 forever.

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[quote name='backpackant']Anyone suggesting that SI are breaking the law by releasing a game with minor faults or errors, think about this:

The game cannot be perfect. Fact. It can't. The analogy of the book is a very good one. Often, "bugs" are just aspects of the game people don't like. Press conferences are not "broken", they're just rubbish. The "corner bug" doesn't NEED to be implemented. The Brazil manager thing is annoying, but not a game breaker. But the game works as well as it can.

Back to the book analogy - someone may think that bending the laws of physics in science fiction book is cheating and therefore not the book they want. But it's still a book. On the sleeve it will have said what the book is about but won't have gone in THAT much detail; yet, when buying a sci-fi book, you KNOW you have to suspend your disbelief to some extent. Or some Creationist releases a book explaining why evolution never happened (they have and continue to do so), despite the fact that everything in those books can be refuted by GCSE science students, but they are released anyway. Is it "faulty" because the content is provably wrong? Of course not. But it's still a book. On the sleeve it will say, "This book contains proof that Adam and Eve were the first man and woman alive, that God created them, and they [somehow] spawned the entire human race without resorting to incest, (but this book won't say how)."

SI release the best game they can. It's a football game with near-infinite possibilities within the match engine alone.

But first, they release a FREE demo. That demo usually contains some faults, but SI will post on this site which ones they've fixed with the day-one patch and which ones they are are going to have fix slightly later. You then buy the game based on the knowledge that you have gleaned via that process.

No one can say they don't know what they are getting into with Football Manager. There will always be faults (and bits some people just don't like). And if the law ever states that the game has to be real-life perfect, SI would never release another game and you'd be stuck with FM10 forever.[/QUOTE]

I think my car analogy is actually better, because he is trying to make out that a minor fault in a peripheral area is making the game "unfit for purpose". And I didn't mention this last night but does anyone know how far down their long list Menezes was when the CBF appointed him a few weeks back. He was behind at least Scolari, Leonardo and Ramalho and probably a few more, those above him didn't want the job because of the famous CBF trigger finger, which makes Jesus Gil look as patient as Job.

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Um...........no I am not making any such point. Nor am I suggesting SI are breaking the law. Your book analogy totaly fails. Nobody is saying that they don`t like the game, they are saying that there are bugs in the game that spoil the game play. If you bought a book and several pages were missing, or blurred to the point that they were illegible, would you accept that on the basis that the rest of the book was ok?

As for preknowledge? How many people are registered here? Now how many bought the game?

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Why has anyone taken this thread seriously? If someone truly thinks this Brazil problem (which may or may not even exist) is a game breaker then they are seriously deluded. Reason number 2 for not taking it seriously is that the OP believes there was a world cup in 2004. Don't know how I missed that one!

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You missed it, how could you?

It was one by the mighty Scotland [IMG]http://www.babynames.com/boards/images/smilies/headbang.gif[/IMG]

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I'm pretty sure Blizzard were still patching Diablo2 5 years after it's initial release, and Blizzard have many software projects under development or already published, yet they can somehow manage to continue offering support.

Why as consumers do we have to accept a product that is faulty, purely because it is software. ?
If it was a toaster that didnt work, I'd complain and get it repaired, replaced or refunded.

If your playing a "Brazillian Save" then the issue with job security is actually pretty game breaking if you're frequently being sacked due to a programming error,
as it makes that particular save largely unplayable. And no the solution is not "Well don't play in Brazil then!!", the solution is for SI to fix it.

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[quote name='TheRealMagpies']I'm pretty sure Blizzard were still patching Diablo2 5 years after it's initial release, and Blizzard have many software projects under development or already published, yet they can somehow manage to continue offering support.[/quote]

Technically 10 years but the main point is there is no Diablo III yet and I'm sure its partly due to renewed interest in II after the announcement of III. Once III is released I doubt you'll see another patch for II.



[quote]Why as consumers do we have to accept a product that is faulty, purely because it is software. ?
If it was a toaster that didnt work, I'd complain and get it repaired, replaced or refunded.[/quote]

Whilst I understand where you are coming from and agree that in a perfect world a piece of software would be perfect the fact is it doesn't happen in the real world. Software such as FM is incredibly complicated and lots of so-called bugs are simply down to a difference in opinion.

As far as the law states as long as FM loads and you can play the game thats enough.



[quote]If your playing a "Brazillian Save" then the issue with job security is actually pretty game breaking if you're frequently being sacked due to a programming error,
as it makes that particular save largely unplayable. And no the solution is not "Well don't play in Brazil then!!", the solution is for SI to fix it.[/QUOTE]

Again I sympathise and personally I do think this is a bug that should have been fixed the fact remains that SI are limited due to money/time/people.

As a company they are very open with their approach to the releases and inform customers in advance of the strategy - three patches after release (day of release(ish), Nov/Dec & Feb/March). As a consumer this gives the opportunity to make an informed choice as to whether & when to purchase FM. There is also a demo made available and the opportunity to read the forums if you are in any doubt before giving over your money.

For your own sanity I think you need to accept that FM will never be perfect and free from bugs. You either accept this will be the case or stop buying/playing the game. Personally as I've got older I've learned to accept the minor errors and enjoy each version for what it is (which for FM10 means not playing as Brazil).

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[quote name='pandel']hello guys is there any chance for a 10.4 patch that improves the brazil problem etc ?[/QUOTE]

[quote name='Legion22']Wow! Free Fixes? You mean if they release something that does not work we don`t have pay to get it fixed?

You do realise that in any other industry thats a right, not a privilage?[/QUOTE]

[quote name='Legion22']I am simply pointing out that for some reason we accept lower standards from software companies than we do anyonw else. Every other industry is obliged to provide goods or services that work, are fit for purpose and safe. Its the law.


Updating your anti-virus is not the same thing.[/QUOTE]

[quote name='Legion22']Um...........no I am not making any such point. Nor am I suggesting SI are breaking the law. Your book analogy totaly fails. Nobody is saying that they don`t like the game, they are saying that there are bugs in the game that spoil the game play. If you bought a book and several pages were missing, or blurred to the point that they were illegible, would you accept that on the basis that the rest of the book was ok?

As for preknowledge? How many people are registered here? Now how many bought the game?[/QUOTE]

As I have said in a previous thread to a different user frankly this selection of posts has you hoist by your own petard (google the phrase). The OP was saying why chant we have a patch for all the problems, and only mentioning one very minor (and arguably no) problem. Then your two posts are insinuating that SI (and other developers) are not complying with the Sale of Goods and Supply of Services act (1980 in Irl not sure UK, but essentialy the same act), because they are not willing to patch out some minor problems. I'm assuming you're referring to the "fit for its normal purpose, and reasonably durable" clause as it's the only one remotely applicable. My two posts have debunked that line of arguement completely.
As to your analogy it's more equivalent of buying a book and finding a "there" instead of a "their" on line 4, column 2, of paragraph 3 on page 287 of a 643 page book than having a few pages missing.

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No, because at no point did I say that FM was subject to the Sale of Goods act. Nor did I directly mention Sports Interactive. I said OTHER industries are and are consequently forced to offer a higher standard of service than software manufacturers.

SI is pretty good with their aftercare, certainly far better than some companies, but that is no reason for us to think ourselves lucky that they offer to fix issues that are game breaking.

[quote]As to your analogy it's more equivalent of buying a book and finding a "there" instead of a "their" on line 4, column 2, of paragraph 3 on page 287 of a 643 page book than having a few pages missing. [/quote]

No, it really isn`t. That example is irrelevant as the meaning is still conveyed. Completely different issue form a software bug preventing a feature working properly.

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[quote name='Legion22']No, because at no point did I say that FM was subject to the Sale of Goods act. Nor did I directly mention Sports Interactive. I said OTHER industries are and are consequently forced to offer a higher standard of service than software manufacturers.[/QUOTE]

So when you say "Its [I][sic][/I] the law" you're not referring to the only law that could possibly be applied to the situation? Somehow I don't think so.

[QUOTE]No, it really isn`t. That example is irrelevant as the meaning is still conveyed. Completely different issue form a software bug preventing a feature working properly.[/QUOTE]

I think my analogy is a lot better than yours. The only problem mentioned in this thread is the Brazil manager "problem", and yes I'm putting quote marks there as it's not a problem. If you google the national team you'll see 33 managers in the last 64 years, a less than 2 year average. So is managers gettign sacked after a few friendly losses in anyway comparable to the example to the one of a book with a significant portion (a number of pages) missing? No it is not, one typo in my hundreds of thousands of words is far more accurate.

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Why is everybody still arguing about this? At the moment SI are busy with FM11 so dont expect anything. In the future who knows. When FM10 was released they released another patch for FM09 removing the activation. If the Brazil problem is a quick fix, they may release a small patch to fix it around the time FM11 is released. If not then who cares, FM11 will be out by then. A far better game by the sound of it and im sure Brazil will be fixed in that.

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EDIT

Never mind. Multi-quote didn't work for me, and i can't be asked to write it again :p

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[quote]So when you say "Its [sic] the law" you're not referring to the only law that could possibly be applied to the situation? Somehow I don't think so.
[/quote]

No......................I said it was the law for OTHER INDUSTRIES. HEre is what I said again.

"Every [b]other industry[/b] is obliged to provide goods or services that work, are fit for purpose and safe. Its the law.

[quote]I think my analogy is a lot better than yours.[/quote]

Think that all you want, but it won`t make it anymore true. Your example is purely cosmetic and has no bearing on the actual work. English is based on context far more than spelling. Teh prof of thes is taht yuo can undrstad thes santence, evan tho its speld wrong.

If you are a fan of Brazil, or are Brazillian its gamebreaking. How would you feel if the same problem applied to Ireland?

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I am arguing as a general point. We accept too little quality control over software. Whilst I accept that games will never be bug free and acknowlegde that SI are very good compared to other companies, we need to stop defending software that does not work properly. You would not accept it from any other industry.

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This is why i don't come to these parts very often. I fear for the mental capacity of some of the people here.

'SI should only release the game every 2 years etc' I guess none of you realise then that they are in a legally binding contract with their publishers to release a new game every single year. Want to blame anybody? Blame SEGA.

Please, go ahead, find me another company who on or as soon after release date possible, will listen to the consumers and release a patch straight away, and then a further two down the line for other problems which are found.

I have bought this game on release date every single year since CM00/01, never have i found a bug which makes the game 'unplayable' and to be honest, if i ever see any 'bugs' it tends to be small things like news items etc...which tbf, i am not small minded enough to get worked up over.

I'm not a 'fanboy' before somebody pipes up with that one. I am a realist. The game isn't perfect (but its damn near to in my eyes) it never will be, as no game is. Every single game has problems, do you know why? Because they are COMPUTER games. If you want real life football management, round up some lads, go to a nearby park and start a sunday league football team, other than that, this game is the closest you're going to get.

I honestly do not know what some people expect. They pay £25 (which in todays market is not very much at all given that FIFA/PES etc retail at £40+) for a game which is worked on all year until the next is released and then has a whole community there who will provide additional add ons, updates to enhance the games experience.

Rant over.

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[quote name='Legion22']No......................I said it was the law for OTHER INDUSTRIES. HEre is what I said again.

"Every [b]other industry[/b] is obliged to provide goods or services that work, are fit for purpose and safe. Its the law.



Think that all you want, but it won`t make it anymore true. Your example is purely cosmetic and has no bearing on the actual work. English is based on context far more than spelling. Teh prof of thes is taht yuo can undrstad thes santence, evan tho its speld wrong.

If you are a fan of Brazil, or are Brazillian its gamebreaking. How would you feel if the same problem applied to Ireland?[/QUOTE]

A) It's not gamebreaking, the CBF sack their managers on the drop of a hat in real life you know. And I've never seen a complaint about a palyer being sacked after 3 games, and everybody who has noticed it have only seen it after a few years and a trawl through the list of managers. If it doesn't affecy YOU directly no matter how much YOU love the team its not gamebreaking. Gamebreaking is when your goalkeeper walks out of the box with the ball at his feet and then plays a backpass thus scoring an own-goal, which actually was quite common in a recent release of a "rival" management sim.

B) I'm going to paraphrase a famous (non)poster from another message board I frequent, Attacko, in order to once again demolish your whole arguement.

FACT- Nobody is above the law.
FACT- The Sale of Goods and Supply of Services Act applies to all vendors/manufacturers/sevice providers, i.e. it's not every other industry it's[B][/B]
FACT- SI are not above the law.
FACT- You complained that everbody else is obliged by law to provide a working good or service, implying that both SI are not providing their good in working order, or adhering to the law. Your whole post above was trying to to weasel out of this point after I pointed out the sheer idiocy of this arguement.
FACT- every single post I've read from you is the equivalent of a 5 year old saying "You're not allowed to score goals against me, I'm going home and I'm taking my ball. Mammy the other boys are unfair, they keep scoring goals. Waah, waah, WAAH.
FACT- Attacko is the superior!

Frankly don't even bother replying to this post unless you can construct an arguement that takes even a nano-seconds worth of thought to demolish. I destroyed your argument fully and comprehensively, and all you could come up with was "that's not my arguement, the thing I said which could have only one meaning, actually means the opposite".

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[quote name='Legion22']No......................I said it was the law for OTHER INDUSTRIES. HEre is what I said again.

"Every [b]other industry[/b] is obliged to provide goods or services that work, are fit for purpose and safe. Its the law.[/QUOTE]

Do you find FM unsafe? I think you need some professional help :P . Can I ask in what way you find that FM does not work, and is unfit for purpose? I mean, this Brazil problem can't be it? I'm looking for serious game-stopping problems that would stop hundreds of people from playing it.

[quote name='Legion22']If you are a fan of Brazil, or are Brazillian its gamebreaking. How would you feel if the same problem applied to Ireland?[/QUOTE]

In my opinion, they've got it spot on. Much like Real Madrid, it's difficult to please your employers, and managers are frequently sacked. Technically, any non-Braziliian being appointed Brazil manager is "gamebreaking", because Brazil do not believe in appointing foreigners. The same goes for your club being happy to accept you being a club and international manager. Unrealistic, and as gamebreaking as the Brazil "problem".

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[quote name='tom_15390']Do you find FM unsafe? I think you need some professional help :P . Can I ask in what way you find that FM does not work, and is unfit for purpose? I mean, this Brazil problem can't be it? I'm looking for serious game-stopping problems that would stop hundreds of people from playing it.



In my opinion, they've got it spot on. Much like Real Madrid, it's difficult to please your employers, and managers are frequently sacked. Technically, any non-Braziliian being appointed Brazil manager is "gamebreaking", because Brazil do not believe in appointing foreigners. The same goes for your club being happy to accept you being a club and international manager. Unrealistic, and as gamebreaking as the Brazil "problem".[/QUOTE]
why cant you understand that for me who i am greek having panathinaikos taking 60m euros each year for tv revenues makes the game unplayable because in two years pan. will have aguerro and olympiakos will have gerrard. its not realistic. maybe you dont care because you dont play that league
but for me is vital!
and i had to wait 2 bloody months. i am sure that if the problem was for a british league SI would have patched the game immediatly!

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It's a data issue, surely you could just edit the problem in the editor?

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[quote name='pandel']why cant you understand that for me who i am greek having panathinaikos taking 60m euros each year for tv revenues makes the game unplayable because in two years pan. [B]will have aguerro and olympiakos will have gerrard[/B]. its not realistic. maybe you dont care because you dont play that league
but for me is vital!
and i had to wait 2 bloody months. i am sure that if the problem was for a british league SI would have patched the game immediatly![/QUOTE]

No. They wouldn't. Reputation is too low for those 2 to go there. SI can't magically make a patch so your argument about a British league is nonsense.

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[quote name='edgar555']No. They wouldn't. Reputation is too low for those 2 to go there. SI can't magically make a patch so your argument about a British league is nonsense.[/QUOTE]

I understand where he's coming from regarding British leagues though. Didnt they release a patch on game release day just to add Stephen Carr (I think) to the Birmingham squad? And that isnt even that important but a big problem with the Greek league takes 2 months to fix. I think there is more of a bias on SI's part towards the bigger leagues and England especially.

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[quote name='StevoRobbo']I understand where he's coming from regarding British leagues though. Didnt they release a patch on game release day just to add Stephen Carr (I think) to the Birmingham squad? And that isnt even that important but a big problem with the Greek league takes 2 months to fix. I think there is more of a bias on SI's part towards the bigger leagues and England especially.[/QUOTE]

That patch wasn't specifically for Stephen Carr. It was fixing other far more relevant and important issues.

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[quote name='Brian Shanahan']A) It's not gamebreaking, the CBF sack their managers on the drop of a hat in real life you know. And I've never seen a complaint about a palyer being sacked after 3 games, and everybody who has noticed it have only seen it after a few years and a trawl through the list of managers. If it doesn't affecy YOU directly no matter how much YOU love the team its not gamebreaking. Gamebreaking is when your goalkeeper walks out of the box with the ball at his feet and then plays a backpass thus scoring an own-goal, which actually was quite common in a recent release of a "rival" management sim.

B) I'm going to paraphrase a famous (non)poster from another message board I frequent, Attacko, in order to once again demolish your whole arguement.

FACT- Nobody is above the law.
FACT- The Sale of Goods and Supply of Services Act applies to all vendors/manufacturers/sevice providers, i.e. it's not every other industry it's[B][/B]
FACT- SI are not above the law.
FACT- You complained that everbody else is obliged by law to provide a working good or service, implying that both SI are not providing their good in working order, or adhering to the law. Your whole post above was trying to to weasel out of this point after I pointed out the sheer idiocy of this arguement.
FACT- every single post I've read from you is the equivalent of a 5 year old saying "You're not allowed to score goals against me, I'm going home and I'm taking my ball. Mammy the other boys are unfair, they keep scoring goals. Waah, waah, WAAH.
FACT- Attacko is the superior!

Frankly don't even bother replying to this post unless you can construct an arguement that takes even a nano-seconds worth of thought to demolish. I destroyed your argument fully and comprehensively, and all you could come up with was "that's not my arguement, the thing I said which could have only one meaning, actually means the opposite".[/QUOTE]

You must think you're pretty cool, "paraphrasing" some ridiculous and untrue syllogism from some stupidly-named internet charlatan who you seem to revere quite so much that he may even be yourself. Mr. Philosophy, maybe when (if?) you pass Intro to Ethics, you may understand what a jerk you are, moral relativism aside.

My question is why SI can't take the time to fix the minor bugs in the 10.3 patch. If customers are upset about it, it would make sense for SI to do the day of leg work in order to make them happy. Instead, they take this defensive "oh no, we work way too hard on FM11 that we can't devote ANY TIME WHATSOEVER to fixing FM10" attitude, which really makes no sense for me. I'm sure SI could find someone on this forum (maybe Brian Shanahan- I'm sure he has the time) who would be perfectly willing take a day to fix the Brazil "bug" and the Greece finance thing and would do it for free. SI releases 10.4 patch, the 10 people who were upset are now happy, and I'm not being glib. In my opinion, every customer should matter. I don't care if it's literally only the Greek guy who would be made happier, SI has a responsibility as a business to go out of their way to make sure ALL of their customers are treated well... Especially since this is such an easy issue to fix, which is what I find kind of ludicrous.

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[quote name='Scott1990'] I'm sure SI could find someone on this forum (maybe Brian Shanahan- I'm sure he has the time) who would be perfectly willing take a day to fix the Brazil "bug" and the Greece finance thing and would do it for free.[/QUOTE]
One day, I'll write a short skit based on that statement.

The average forum user, probably including Brian, wouldn't have a clue how to fix the Brazil "bug". It isn't a case of "untick the box where it says "Brazil sack their manager after every draw or defeat"", it would need a good knowledge of coding language, and the nuances of the FM code. In other words, they'd need to be a professional (who would want paying), they'd need to spent quite some time, and they'd probably need to already work for SI.

(How on Earth is this thread still open?)

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[quote name='SCIAG']One day, I'll write a short skit based on that statement.

The average forum user, probably including Brian, wouldn't have a clue how to fix the Brazil "bug". It isn't a case of "untick the box where it says "Brazil sack their manager after every draw or defeat"", it would need a good knowledge of coding language, and the nuances of the FM code. In other words, they'd need to be a professional (who would want paying), they'd need to spent quite some time, and they'd probably need to already work for SI.

(How on Earth is this thread still open?)[/QUOTE]

This is 100% true, my knowledge of coding only extends as far as knowing how incredibly hard doing something like this can turn out, and thats from living with some comp sci students back at university.

@Scott: if you stopped blathering for just one secon and actually read what went on between me and the other poster you wouldn't have posted the ad hominem attack on me. Also please note for future reference that using big concepts that you don't understand to try and win arguements only makes you look stupid. Please note the following reference form Solomon "Better to remain silent and thought a fool, than to speak and remove all doubt."

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[quote name='Brian Shanahan']This is 100% true, my knowledge of coding only extends as far as knowing how incredibly hard doing something like this can turn out, and thats from living with some comp sci students back at university.

@Scott: if you stopped blathering for just one secon and actually read what went on between me and the other poster you wouldn't have posted the ad hominem attack on me. Also please note for future reference that using big concepts that you don't understand to try and win arguements only makes you look stupid. Please note the following reference form Solomon "Better to remain silent and thought a fool, than to speak and remove all doubt."[/QUOTE]

To use a lazily-constructed syllogism spawned from another forum user, whose name you HAD to reference (for some reason), in order to prove some asinine point on a forum about a soccer computer game struck me as bad form. As did your subsequent pretentious and condescending reply. I just don't understand why people have to be jerks, especially when it's so easy using the anonymity of a computer.

Solomon also said this: “Your own soul is nourished when you are kind; it is destroyed when you are cruel.”

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[quote name='Scott1990']To use a lazily-constructed syllogism spawned from another forum user, whose name you HAD to reference (for some reason), in order to prove some asinine point on a forum about a soccer computer game struck me as bad form. As did your subsequent pretentious and condescending reply. I just don't understand why people have to be jerks, especially when it's so easy using the anonymity of a computer.

Solomon also said this: “Your own soul is nourished when you are kind; it is destroyed when you are cruel.”[/QUOTE]

If he hadn't referenced the other forum user then we'd have had no idea what he was on about. Bad form my backside. Legion deserved it all and more.
More importantly though, I'll echo SCIAG's last comment (adding my own words also): how on earth is this train wreck thread still open?

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[quote name='edgar555']No. They wouldn't. Reputation is too low for those 2 to go there. SI can't magically make a patch so your argument about a British league is nonsense.[/QUOTE]

man i told you two random names. in a friend's game panathinaikos had ribery (which was sold from roma and he was transfer listed) and olympiakos had neymar .no fmrte or something. i am not lying. you know its silly complaining about a fake issue

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[quote name='pandel']man i told you two random names. in a friend's game panathinaikos had ribery (which was sold from roma and he was transfer listed) and olympiakos had neymar .no fmrte or something. i am not lying. you know its silly complaining about a fake issue[/QUOTE]

So Ribery went from Bayern to Roma and then to Panathinaikos. Was he about 35? No wonder he went there, probably for higher wages anybody else would pay him aswell. As for Olympiakos having Neymar, nothing really out of the ordinary there. If he really wants to play in Europe, he could be using Olympiakos as a stepping stone also pretty much guarenteed European football of some sort.

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[quote name='pandel']man i told you two random names. in a friend's game panathinaikos had ribery (which was sold from roma and he was transfer listed) and olympiakos had neymar .no fmrte or something. i am not lying. you know its silly complaining about a fake issue[/QUOTE]

No you told me 2 extremely high profile names who would never play in the Greek league. Neymar and Ribery are different. Neymar is young and talented and would see the Greek league as a stepping stone, whilst Ribery is a merc and would go there for the money. They are a completely different scenario to Aguero and Gerrard. If you're going to complain, then please at least use decent examples.
Anyway my earlier point about SI not being able to magically pull a patch out of the air remains.
Is that all clear enough?

EDIT : beaten by StevoRobbo :thup:

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ok guys you re probably blinded funboys. normally neither of them would come to greece. but anyways playing with a greek team and having each summer to spend 60-70m is gamebreaking. its simple

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[quote name='pandel']ok guys you re probably blinded funboys. normally neither of them would come to greece. but anyways playing with a greek team and having each summer to spend 60-70m is gamebreaking. its simple[/QUOTE]

I am a funboy!!!!!
Read very carefully what we wrote. In both cases it is likely that Ribery and Neymar would go to the Greek league for the reasons stated by both of us. It is never likely for Aguero or Gerrard. Give me a proper example and I will listen and sympathise, otherwise you just make yourself look stupid.

I think the word you were looking for was 'fanboys'. For the record there is no need to be so offensive. If you check my posts you will see that I criticise FM when needed and defend it when needed.

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yea sorry fanboys i meant :) anywayz the proper example is this: greek teams had crazy amounts of cash= its unrealistic= it makes the game unplayable for me.
its not only about ribery ;) teams that normally would have 1m for transfers now they had 30m.

ok obviously you dont find it that bad. BUT for me and for many people in the greek manager community made the game unplayable. the beginning of this convo was how the brazil problem makes the game unplayable for you. and the answer is the one i gave right now. i dont care that much about brazil as for the prize problem in greece and the fact that some players become unregistered for no reason .ok now ?

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[quote name='pandel']yea sorry fanboys i meant :) anywayz the proper example is this: greek teams had crazy amounts of cash= its unrealistic= it makes the game unplayable for me.
its not only about ribery ;) teams that normally would have 1m for transfers now they had 30m.

ok obviously you dont find it that bad. BUT for me and for many people in the greek manager community made the game unplayable. the beginning of this convo was how the brazil problem makes the game unplayable for you. and the answer is the one i gave right now. i dont care that much about brazil as for the prize problem in greece and the fact that some players become unregistered for no reason .ok now ?[/QUOTE]

In future try reading all of the posts. Especially when somebody actually agree's with you. I pointed out the Ribery and Neymar thing because it could actually happen even though you say it wont.

Regarding the TV money, I actually agreed with you a few posts back if you bothered to read. Here is what I said AGAIN for you:
[B]
I understand where he's coming from regarding British leagues though. Didnt they release a patch on game release day just to add Stephen Carr (I think) to the Birmingham squad? And that isnt even that important but a big problem with the Greek league takes 2 months to fix. I think there is more of a bias on SI's part towards the bigger leagues and England especially. [/B]

BTW im far from being a fanboy. I have plenty of gripes with FM when needed.

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