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Is there any chance for a 10.4 patch ?

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hello guys is there any chance for a 10.4 patch that improves the brazil problem etc ?

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No there isn't. What is the 'Brazil problem' btw?

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No there isn't. What is the 'Brazil problem' btw?

I thinks its the to do with managers getting sacked after 1 game or something could be wrong.

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the brazil problem is that you get fired easily. remember in 2004 when they won the world cup at germany they kept the same manager even if they had a terrible run in the qualifications

anyway thank you

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there has never been a 4th patch

I seem to remember one for CM4.

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The patch is coming out 29 October and is called Football Manager 2011 ;)

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Yeah FM11 is the next patch, and if you don't like the new features or tweaked match engine, among other things on FM11.

Then it's just.. .. well tough!

SI won't go back and fix the bugs on FM10 [i.e. the corner routine], when they want people to spend their money on FM11. ;)

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If you want an updated version of the game go to the Editors Hideaway mate. Where you will find edited databases which are up to date in there. The 2 main ones are chris's and forbsie's. However they will probably not fix the Brazil problem.

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well its not my only problem . for example players get unregistered for the asian champions league and the asian confederation cup for no reason and national teams prefer managers with lower reputation than u

anyway i think its a pity that sports interactive doesnt care about the clients that use former editions of the game and they leave bugs behind but we cant do nothing about it

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anyway i think its a pity that sports interactive doesnt care about the clients that use former editions of the game and they leave bugs behind but we cant do nothing about it

I find that comment totally unfair.

FM is an incredibly complex game which will never be bug free but SI do much more than most developers to find & fix as much as they can within the available time frame.

At the end of the day they are a business and need to make a profit.

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Not really, if they spent all their time patching every minor issue that isn't even close to game breaking each new edition wouldn't be anything like the step up we get every year.

There are never any game breaking issues left after the 3rd patch, the corner routine problem isn't a problem if you choose not to use it and I for one would rather they focus on FM11

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I find that comment totally unfair.

FM is an incredibly complex game which will never be bug free but SI do much more than most developers to find & fix as much as they can within the available time frame.

At the end of the day they are a business and need to make a profit.

I wouldn't say it is a totally unfair comment, because there is no one forcing them to release a new game every year. A car is a complex thing also, but I don't think anyone would have accepted to live with the "bugs" in their 08-model, just because the manufacturer had to use their time on the brand new 09. I think most people, like me, have accepted that when you play FM you pay for a game that never will be flawless, and that neither of the versions ever will reach their potential. However that doesn't mean that SI/Sega should use a year every now and then to make sure that the game's major "modules" are working as intended, instead of coming up with new features to be able to release another game. In that case, sell it at half price with the major feature being that all critical elements actually are working properly. Player/board interaction is an example of a feature that has been around for quite a while now, but still isn't nearly working like it should. In many instances it's atctually rather ruining the good game feeling. Instead of making it "live" like in FM11, they should make sure that it's working in the first place..

So.. They're a business and they need to make a profit, but in the world we're living in were customer orientation is even more important than ever, they shouldn't forget that their customers doesn't necessarily forget to easy either.. This isn't a "sort it out SI thread" is I overall think they're doing a good job, but I'm getting a bit annoyed now and then when I see comments around "no more patches, we're working on FM11", like it's for our best.. We've already bought the car they won't fix..

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Their publisher, SEGA, is forcing them to release a new version every year.

In my honest opinion the new yearly editions of FM can be comparable to expansion packs of other games in terms of added features.

They do not have enough time or the resources to release a new game every year with enough new content to justify the full price.

But since there is not much competition in this genre we really don't have much real choice.

I think at least SI should set up an open beta period before they release the game. It's unacceptable to release the game and then have a major patch on day 1. That just shows that they are rushing to finalise the product when it is clearly not ready.

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i 'm just saying all these because i am a fan of the series and i have spent many hours on the game. but there are some users that the same time fm11 drops in the market they will continue playing fm10 because they might be in the year 2050 and they might dont want to start from the beginning

(it happend to me a couple of times ) . so there users are "doomed" to play a game that they know it will never be fixed. thank god right now i am at year 1015 so it wont be a problem for me to wait for the new game and start again

and another thing that irritates me a little bit is that the final tests on the game are made by customers. i cant remember when it was the last time that football manager could be played safely without patch 0.1 . i dont have a problem to wait until the first patches but its a big unfair if you pay full price for an uncompleted game if you know what i mean. maybe they should lower the prices just for the first month or something

anyway lets hope football manager 11 will be a new start without these problems :)

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Their publisher, SEGA, is forcing them to release a new version every year.

In my honest opinion the new yearly editions of FM can be comparable to expansion packs of other games in terms of added features.

They do not have enough time or the resources to release a new game every year with enough new content to justify the full price.

But since there is not much competition in this genre we really don't have much real choice.

I think at least SI should set up an open beta period before they release the game. It's unacceptable to release the game and then have a major patch on day 1. That just shows that they are rushing to finalise the product when it is clearly not ready.

yes you are right in football manager games there is a "monopoly" and there is no competition so they dont feel the pressure to make a perfect game. they just know that we are gonna buy the product no matter what. so sometimes they dont care about the quality.

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I don't think ANY game company with yearly franchise goes back to older versions and spends time and money to fix the problems.

They can't even bring out the new one in good condition let alone fixing things in older versions.

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I don't think ANY game company with yearly franchise goes back to older versions and spends time and money to fix the problems.

They can't even bring out the new one in good condition let alone fixing things in older versions.

if the game is so BAD don't buy it, it's still the best out there!

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yes you are right in football manager games there is a "monopoly" and there is no competition so they dont feel the pressure to make a perfect game.

There isn't a monopoly. Off the top of my head, Championship manager and FIFA Manager compete for the same market, and i'm sure there are many others.

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If you dont like it dont buy it. Most of the bugs dont really make the game unplayable, ive never not been able to play the game when ive bought it.

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There isn't a monopoly. Off the top of my head, Championship manager and FIFA Manager compete for the same market, and i'm sure there are many others.

but unfortunatelly these games are not serious competion yet. they are like 4/10 and fm is 8/10 . in fact i dont know anyone that plays championship manager :p

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but unfortunatelly these games are not serious competion yet. they are like 4/10 and fm is 8/10 . in fact i dont know anyone that plays championship manager :p

Maybe that just goes to show how hard it is to make a 'perfect game'?

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An almost 3 guaranteed free fixes, with all the assoc. free data updates, and almost limitless data edits that the user can make? All for what can usually be picked up for £20-25 on release day?

I'd say SI do plenty for the user for a yearly release. I see what you're saying that they could do two-yearly releases, but surely that would limit them to tweaking the current game, rather than the more large-scale changes we're used to every year?

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Why are people acting so defensive?

"If you don't like it then don't buy it" kind of mentality does not actually do any good for the improvement of the series.

I like the game. It's just a pity that every year they rush out an incomplete version to meet the deadline.

No one is demanding a perfect game. Is it too much to ask to release a finished game with no bug/ME patch required rather than using money paying customers as beta testers?

And "free fixes" isn't something bonus. It's what should have been included in the box.

I do appreciate the data updates in January. But even that can be done better. (Not bunching up all the Jan transfers into pre-season transfers)

And you locals may only have to pay something cheap like 20 pounds but in Aus we pay like $80

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I see what you're saying, but from a purely selfish viewpoint, I'd rather see the SI team try to cram in as many new features as possible that are largely workable, and then fix the issues over the course of a year ready for them being perfect in the next one rather than following what I'll call the "FIFA model".

They make few changes, but iron out almost every kink. Successive FIFA games are almost identical, you need to buy every other year to see the difference. With FM, sure it's a bit buggy, but it's all new. Surely you want as different a game as possible for $80 a pop?

I think Miles or someone said elsewhere, they have a team of maybe 100 people who can test the game prior to its release for just a few weeks, and take it back to the designers to clean it up. At best, they can hope for 10,000 hours or so? When it's first released, millions of people are buying it, resulting in millions of hours of testing, of new probing, of finding out that the A-League still doesn't work, but no-one from London understands it anyway, or has taken it to 8 seasons where no other team signs marquee players making domination of the league dead easy....

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Why are people acting so defensive?

"If you don't like it then don't buy it" kind of mentality does not actually do any good for the improvement of the series.

I like the game. It's just a pity that every year they rush out an incomplete version to meet the deadline.

No one is demanding a perfect game. Is it too much to ask to release a finished game with no bug/ME patch required rather than using money paying customers as beta testers?

And "free fixes" isn't something bonus. It's what should have been included in the box.

I do appreciate the data updates in January. But even that can be done better. (Not bunching up all the Jan transfers into pre-season transfers)

And you locals may only have to pay something cheap like 20 pounds but in Aus we pay like $80

The $80 price hasn't got anything to do with SI or Sega though thats the stupid mark-ups our retailers throw on.

I disagree with the updates being what should be in the box already, they get the game as ready as it can be in the time they have and then continue to work on it after its release.

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I see what you're saying, but from a purely selfish viewpoint, I'd rather see the SI team try to cram in as many new features as possible that are largely workable, and then fix the issues over the course of a year ready for them being perfect in the next one rather than following what I'll call the "FIFA model".

They make few changes, but iron out almost every kink. Successive FIFA games are almost identical, you need to buy every other year to see the difference. With FM, sure it's a bit buggy, but it's all new. Surely you want as different a game as possible for $80 a pop?

I think Miles or someone said elsewhere, they have a team of maybe 100 people who can test the game prior to its release for just a few weeks, and take it back to the designers to clean it up. At best, they can hope for 10,000 hours or so? When it's first released, millions of people are buying it, resulting in millions of hours of testing, of new probing, of finding out that the A-League still doesn't work, but no-one from London understands it anyway, or has taken it to 8 seasons where no other team signs marquee players making domination of the league dead easy....

what ? you must be kidding right ? there are not that huge changes year after year for football manager .the last years it was almost the same game and they were adding new trasfers. tactic creator and a graphics from 1998 are cool and i am happy with them but i could call them massive changes.even lma manager has better graphics for god's shake.

fifa (even though i am a pro evolution soccer fan) has made huge steps though the last years

i think football manager can still improve massively as a game

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hello guys is there any chance for a 10.4 patch that improves the brazil problem etc ?
the brazil problem is that you get fired easily.

That's real life.. no problem there.

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Well I can see we are completely off-topic of OP, but that's ok.

I'm not trying to accuse SI of completely failing at what they do. I think they have been doing a good job with their limited resources.

But I'm strongly suggesting that in order for the FM series to grow further, it needs to improve its development strategy a bit.

First thing I guess is the development time for each version. If it was at all possible they should REALLY only release the game every 2 years and just have data updates in the odd years.

FM is a seriously complex game, and pretty much the only way to find and fix bugs is to test it a lot. Like I said before, they should really set up a broader open beta system where the obvious problems can be fixed before it is released. Year after year we pick up the game and play for 2 hours to only sit and wonder how they ever missed the obvious bugs.

At the moment it works OK to sell the incomplete game and have the patch out once everyone reports back the problems they are having.

But the world is bigger than that. And SI needs to aim higher and really increase their reputation as a reliable game company.

I heard that FM is starting to sell in the few hundred thousands, and that is quite impressive.

But if you want to aim for the tens of millions then things have to be changed; whether it be more money invested, more time spent, or whatever.

I understand that the football management sim isn't exactly the most popular genre in the world, but that's not a good enough reason to say this is as far as we can go.

Be happy but never be satisfied.

There, I feel a bit better. :)

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That's real life.. no problem there.

its not real life man look at felipe scolari. he sucked but he wasnt fired and then they won the world cup . anyway it doesnt matter that much just for the record

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I don't really have a problem with the yearly games, or indeed the fact that there are some bugs in them, but I really dislike the ""3 patches only" policy. While I wouldn't expect them to do a major release with database changes or anything like that after the Jan update, a small 4th patch to fix some issues found in 10.3 would be very welcome - I'm talking about things like the aforementionned Brazil problem, the issues with getting international jobs when not employed by a club and so on. I can't imagine it'd take that much work to release a small patch like this, and I suspect it'd generate a lot of goodwill among the playerbase.

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what ? you must be kidding right ? there are not that huge changes year after year for football manager .the last years it was almost the same game and they were adding new trasfers. tactic creator and a graphics from 1998 are cool and i am happy with them but i could call them massive changes.even lma manager has better graphics for god's shake.

fifa (even though i am a pro evolution soccer fan) has made huge steps though the last years

i think football manager can still improve massively as a game

Yeah but that's not what Football Manager is about, even since the CM days they never even had a match to watch, Fm's not about all these fancy cosmetic graphics etc.

It's the games realistic database that makes it so good, and it's simple & easy to use whilst still making it feel real, make the game so addictive.

That's why it's been the best Football Managment sim out there for years. [Although newer additions have started to get a little more complex]

Yeah Fifa may have better graphics, and you may have a Wayne Rooney running around the pitch who look's like Wayne Rooney but the rest of the game is poor. Fifa manager is too over done with graphics etc, that you know your just playing a game. Where as with FM it can feel real at times, too real sometimes. :D

If FM had Fifa's graphics and licenses, it would be a Super managment sim. ;) But it's the games code and database that still would be the spine of the game.

But i'd take FM over fifa anyday, you may buy a book that as a stunning cover and pictures through out the book.

But it's the story inside what counts, not the cover. :p

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Yeah but that's not what Football Manager is about, even since the CM days they never even had a match to watch, Fm's not about all these fancy cosmetic graphics etc.

It's the games realistic database that makes it so good, and it's simple & easy to use whilst still making it feel real, make the game so addictive.

That's why it's been the best Football Managment sim out there for years. [Although newer additions have started to get a little more complex]

Yeah Fifa may have better graphics, and you may have a Wayne Rooney running around the pitch who look's like Wayne Rooney but the rest of the game is poor. Fifa manager is too over done with graphics etc, that you know your just playing a game. Where as with FM it can feel real at times, too real sometimes. :D

If FM had Fifa's graphics and licenses, it would be a Super managment sim. ;) But it's the games code and database that still would be the spine of the game.

But i'd take FM over fifa anyday, you may buy a book that as a stunning cover and pictures through out the book.

But it's the story inside what counts, not the cover. :p

man i agree. but dont say about "fancy cosmetic graphics" we live in 2010 remember .of course and you can improve graphics and everything. because sports interactive has a great database doesnt mean that they must sit back and relax and do nothing more. after all we must be demanding with our favorite game. sometimes i get jealous when i play nba2k10 which has unlimited seasons too, a huge database with stats too BUT it also has amazing graphics and it doesnt take the 75% of my ram memory everytime i play it.

if customers are fine with ram issues data crashes pure graphics and stuff sports interactive will not care to fix them. cant you understand that ?

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Please try to see a little realism here, folks.

The out of the box game will NEVER be perfect.

Patch 1 will NEVER be perfect.

Patch 2 will NEVER be perfect.

Patch 3 will NEVER be perfect.

It's a computer game, trying to simulate a real sport with near infinite possibilities. All the developers can do is do the best they can before the deadline, release the imperfect game and issue imperfect patches. It's the MOST they can do.

No game is perfect, but there are not many that offer a day-1 patch to update the game with the improvements they've made in the fortnight since their manufacturer deadline passed, then hand out 2-3 more improvements over the next six months.

It can't be perfect. There will always be bugs. Always.

But what we get is way, WAY more than most games companies issue.

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This is kind of disappointment actually.

I expect a software company to support their product a bit longer.

"New version is up, so we won't fix anything in previous version. Buy the new one!" approach is a bit annoying.

I am not talking about adding new features. Just fixing known issues.

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what ? you must be kidding right ? there are not that huge changes year after year for football manager .the last years it was almost the same game and they were adding new trasfers. tactic creator and a graphics from 1998 are cool and i am happy with them but i could call them massive changes.even lma manager has better graphics for god's shake.

fifa (even though i am a pro evolution soccer fan) has made huge steps though the last years

i think football manager can still improve massively as a game

thats not true at all for fm 09 they introtuced the 3D match engine and introduced press conferences (which still need work), both were massive changes. Then for fm 10 there was the tactics creator which has been brilliant and then for fm11 we already know theres going to be dynamic league reputation and thats only the beginning of all the changes made with each version. FIFA 10 made big jumps but FIFA 11 in't looking any different.

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This is kind of disappointment actually.

I expect a software company to support their product a bit longer.

"New version is up, so we won't fix anything in previous version. Buy the new one!" approach is a bit annoying.

I am not talking about adding new features. Just fixing known issues.

You aren't buying any support with the product, so why expect it? There is no money to be made in supporting an out of date product, so why waste resources? The known issues pale in significance to the rest of the game.

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Just because an issue is not fixed for the last patch, or has been reported since does not mean that it is not being worked on.

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If this Brazil bug was instead England bug, then we would see, or actually would already have seen, a patch to fix it. It's a sad fact, but certain leagues are more important to SI/SEGA than some others. If I remember correctly, they released a new database with the first patch just to add ONE player that had been missing from a Premier League team, but didn't bother with the hundreds of missing players from other countries.

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I think it's more the fact that this is what Brazil do. They have a proven track record of being trigger-happy when it comes to manager's not doing as well as they'd hoped.

I mean, SI could fix this problem, and push realism to the point that Brazil only appoint their kind of managers - people you've barely ever heard of, and only Brazillians, so you never get the job in the first place.

Personally, I lost 3 games with Brazil before being sacked, and tbf, I think losing against Portugal and Italy in the confederations cup without scoring probably did deserve sacking.

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You aren't buying any support with the product, so why expect it? There is no money to be made in supporting an out of date product, so why waste resources? The known issues pale in significance to the rest of the game.

you cant be serious right ? you re saying that you are buying football manager knowing that there gonna be serious bugs and you dont care about it ??

let me tell you one thing. this year they had made a mistake in the greek league in tv revenues and prize money and greek teams took almost the same money as premier league teams. which mean that after a season you could buy players with 60million euros.

AND THE WORST ? we had to wait for ages until the second patch was out.

you re saying that this is proffesional ?

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you cant be serious right ? you re saying that you are buying football manager knowing that there gonna be serious bugs and you dont care about it ??

let me tell you one thing. this year they had made a mistake in the greek league in tv revenues and prize money and greek teams took almost the same money as premier league teams. which mean that after a season you could buy players with 60million euros.

AND THE WORST ? we had to wait for ages until the second patch was out.

you re saying that this is proffesional ?

Well, the sales figures for the FM-series seems to reflect that the support given by SI is more than proffesional.

If a majority of the customers would not be happy with the state of the game at release and the after-sales support, sales figures would suffer.

Quod non.

Should SI strive for perfection?

Off course

Should the customers report bugs and ask for solutions?

Off course

Should customers blow issues out of proportion and make a good product sound bad by giving the impression that they don't get good value for money?

Nope.

If you are disappointed with the series; don't buy FM11. That the best(strongest) signal a customer can give.

And yes, you can continue to criticise FM10; that's how FM11-12-13... wil have fewer problems.

But please get some perspective into your views.

And btw: SI said before release that they would do a 3-patch-strategy for FM10.

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