England - The Road to 2012 (now featuring Wayne Rooney) but not his touch

[skybluedave]

Wilshere hasn't done enough yet to be in the first team squad imo. Good to see him for the Hungary game but you'd think the likes of Carrick, Huddlestone, and maybe Joe Cole will get called up now at his expense.

[Razzler]

Gibbs isn't in the U21 squad and he hasn't done anything to move ahead of the likes of Stephen Warnock (i.e. back up who won't play) and at least Wilshire has been playing for Arsenal. I said this last month, "Oh children are the future" put a few in the squad and they'll drop down to the U21s again as tbf U21s also have a couple of important games, they just wanted people to turn up at Wembley feeling all warm and fuzzy about 'the future'.

With that in mind, the U21s had a friendliy with Uzbekistan so why not put Rodwell and even others in the squad too? I know it's the only chance for Capello to get the squad together before these Qualifiers but seeing as we all knew they'd drop back down he may as well have picked another couple.

Not sure about Joe Cole as made his debut and then got sent off and has been suspended since, including today and then the squad will be announced (when is that btw?). Wouldn't be surprised if Cole missed out, maybe if it was friendlies but as these are Quals he may get in. Hopefully no more SWP. Walcott has to start for me, whatever we have to say about him he's looked very lively, one of the few players that doesn't look lethargic and he's also in decent form.

[tcoleman1]

I think the problem with England is that the media and the majority of the fans want to see young players put in the team and be like Rooney. They can't accept you can't just have another Rooney. He came into the England team, did pretty awesome and established himself as one of the best players in the team and in the premier league. None of the youngsters at the moment look like they are anything close to that.

[Razzler]

I think the media and fans want another superstar 'kid' for sure, that's why Walcott gets it in the neck so much, everyone wants him to be 'the one' but he's only 21 and all players mature at different ages and the fans and media have to understand this, we write off players when they aren't as good as Rooney or Shearer in their first few months, the problem is such players need to be that good as chances are few and far between at the top of the Premier League.

I don't wholey subscribe to the 'if they're good enough, they'll play' line as is simply isn't as easy as that. A 20 year old can play great for 10 games, he has 2 or 3 so-so games and he'll be out, a 29 or 30 year old with all his years experience will probably get more bites of the cherry then 2 or 3 poor games simply cause he has those years of experience and if he's an expensive import then you don't often leave 15, 20, 25 million on the bench.

A player that remains at a club like Liverpool or United may well end up making the grade but not always before 18 or 19 and not when he's limited to 6 starts and 10 appearances off the bench every season.

I am not confusing players that really aren't good enough for England that have had chances like SWP, don't have a problem with him not being picked.

[Razzler]

Stockdale of Fulham to get England call up?

[aggressive minor]

I agree with Razzler really. 15 years ago they were given the chance to establish themselves, doesn't happen anymore.

I may have mentioned in the thread already but In Carragher's autobiography he doesn't think he could have made in at Liverpool if he came up now. Back in the late 90's he was give sufficient time to develop, as it is he became an excellent defender. I completely agree, players like him (when he was younger) just don't get the game time.

As it is though, the lack of finances for clubs is good in that they have to turn to youth. Seeing players like Albrighton and Jones starting games now is promising. That happened in Scotland didn't it, no money and they had to turn to youth.

[aggressive minor]

Stockdale of Fulham to get England call up?

Pleased for him. But a sad sign of times, previously you'd have to produce for at least a season to think about getting a look in.

[BJG123]

That's the inherent problem with the English game now. We don't produce coaches of sufficient quality. What are those stats that show how we have like 8000 coaches with the UEFA pro licence compared to 40,000ish in Germany/Spain? We really need to be pumping more money into making funding available for Coaches to do the courses to make themselves better.

Maybe make it so managers of teams up to U12 have to have level 1 FA, from U13 to U18 they must have level 2, any adult team operating outside of the league pyramid has to have level 3 and any manager of a team in the league pyramid must have the UEFA Pro licence. Use some of the billions of pounds from the TV money to drive costs down so that people can afford to do the courses.

I disagree with you saying we don't have managers of sufficient quality, it's just they're not given the chance. It's only West Brom, Wigan and West Ham outside of the top clubs with foreign managers. The problem is teams like Chelsea and City not giving a British manager a go when they have a vacancy (or not giving them long enough in Hughes' case). I think we're overstating the problem here. There are plenty of talented British managers about, it's just difficult for them to go to a title winning side when 2 of the top 4 have permanent managers.

[josh_b]

What you reckon that when a vacancy comes up, they just go, nah I fancy someone with a bit of a foreign accent? If they were good enough, they would be given a chance. They're not, so they don't. Also see this in effect with the young English players, they're just not good enough any more (a few exceptions aside), so it's easier for the clubs to pick up cheap imports of higher quality

just read wilshere's been dropped back to the u21's? pretty stark change of mind there then

smh

[Razzler]

I think Carragher is a prime example, he was always so-so but a decent player, nowadays he'd probably be shipped out. I really don't have a problem with the Zolas, Bergkamps et la, when someone mentions foreign players the media immediately go on about "OMG but Zola was brilliant" yeah but how good was Andrea Silenzi? Maybe we need to raise the bar in terms of what we accept into the league (not even sure that is legal) and of course part of the problem is any English player costing a fortune but bloody hell there are some ordinary, also-ran type players in a lot of squads, really no English player could have come through over time?

Warnock is released from Liverpool and who is their left back now? About to be Konchesky and before that a series of 'meh' tbf, even if you argue the merits of Fabrio Aurelio or Insua is it a massive difference? Warnock could have 5 seasons of top flight football under his belt under different circumstances, he could have developed into a better player, playing against a varied type of opponent.

I don't know what we should do and what is even legal in the EU anymore but it's the ordinary foreign players in squads that annoy me, we could have an ordinary English player in there I mean, a player that could gain experience and become better.

The Dutch have it right, best of the best are off in England, Spain and Italy playing with the best of the best and their own league allows their younger players to develop without a massive media glare. Imagine if Walcott could play week in, week out for a few seasons before moving to someone like Arsenal or United with all those games domestically and in Europe under his belt?

It'll never happen. Football clubs are run as businesses now and people get annoyed when they're treated like a business. Handing over power to Premier Clubs was always gonna be a massive mistake, the Premier League was supposed to 'aid' the National Side as well. Wenger has said we have to decide it 'we want the best product or for the national side' but it's a little dramatic, firstly, don't care about the product, football in the 80s was still great, who cares and also it doesn't need to be either/or, I am sure we can find a middle ground.

Things will only change, as with everything in football if they kill the goose that is laying the golden egg, cash, crowds, etc. They want to stop diving cause people don't go to games anymore ... watch diving by cut out almost instantly but it won't happen. Platini's 'non-tackling' plans have basically come about as players are scared to make challenges due to divers but as soon it it ruins things as a spectacle it will change but I think we're a long way from that.

Just hope the owners can agree on a happy medium regarding national talent as I am sure they don't all want to keep spending, spending, spending as well

[Leppard]

The thing with Rooney was that before moving to United, he was already a first-team player for us at the age of 16-17 which obviously gave him a lot of experience.

Hopefully, Rodwell and Wilshere will get a lot of playing time this year. Rodwell can definitely break into our team as we're bound to get an injury soon/loss of form.

[Rob1981]

In answer to the previous question, squad is named tomorrow.

A change to the usual MO where players are named on Saturday night, play for their clubs on Sunday and then have to withdraw.

Common sense prevails

[Rob1981]

Oh, and unsurprisingly, tickets are still available for next Friday:

www.thefa.com/ticketing

Think they've stuck October's Montenegro game on general sale as well.

[hilly_boro]

Not sure if its being mentioned but after all the controversy over the pitch why on earth would they play the Challenge Cup Final at Wembley today with England there in 6 days :confused:

[Razzler]

Cause they are greedy feckers that totally messed up building Wembley and will be whoring it out from here to eternity to pay for it

[jmr]

Oh, and unsurprisingly, tickets are still available for next Friday:

www.thefa.com/ticketing

Think they've stuck October's Montenegro game on general sale as well.

How much are those Bulgaria tickets? Cba signing up to see they are £50 each.

[Rob1981]

Cheapest ones are 30 I think

[Philip Rolfe]

Lampard is out, needs hernia surgery this week.

[SeanNUFC]

Lampard is out, needs hernia surgery this week.

Just heard that to, be good to see what Capello can do without him and see if we play any better.

[aggressive minor]

Lampard is a class act, but given his age I think it would be a good thing if we gave another younger player a run out in his position.

if we had a team full of youngster then no, but we need to phase some of the older lot out.

[David Ashworth]

This allows Gerrard to be the main man i midfield like he was in the second half of the last friendly when we actually played well.

I expect the following:

Hart

Johnson

Jagielka

Dawson

Cole

Walcott

Milner

Barry

Johnson

Gerrard

Rooney

[SCIAG]

Terr

Isn't he Scottish?

I'd rather have Lewis or Loach than Stockdale, but it doesn't really matter if they're going to be third choice.

[skybluedave]

Huddlestone in for Lampard please. The rest the same as Hungary.

[aggressive minor]

I wanted to say that, but I've been saying it way too much since the WC, don't want people to think I'm biased with my Spurs connection y'know!

[Rob1981]

I thought Huddlestone was our best player against Japan in the friendly just before the World Cup.

Would be happy to see him start.

[Philip Rolfe]

Terry's out as well, thigh injuries. Someone went in hard on him earlier and left a foot in.

[jmr]

Typical Stoke.

[aggressive minor]

Nothing against Terry/Lampard, who are still top class footballers (well Terry seems more erratic than he used to be, but still young enough), but it will be good that England will be forced to freshen up.

Theo looking very dangerous for Arsenal, interested to see how he goes and Rooney ending the drought!

[Razzler]

Hmmm, how long you generally out for with a Hernia, I know it can vary, how long is Lampard out for?

[Razzler]

Capello: Language is not a problem

Capello lacks stomach for revolution

[skybluedave]

Can't believe the press are having a pop at Capello for demoting Wilshere. It's probably better he actually gets 90 mins for the U21's then sitting on the bench for the main team.

He's not gonna get in ahead of Gerrard in the AMC role. Nor Huddlestone in the deeper midfield role alongside Barry

[Razzler]

So, no Lampard or Terry what's the team gonna be? Milner, Barry, Huddlestone and Gerrard, Rooney, Walcott up front, regular full backs and who the feck in central defence, Upson and Dawson, I guess? Probably missing someone obvious in midfield there

[pouncer]

Can't believe the press are having a pop at Capello for demoting Wilshere. It's probably better he actually gets 90 mins for the U21's then sitting on the bench for the main team.

He's not gonna get in ahead of Gerrard in the AMC role. Nor Huddlestone in the deeper midfield role alongside Barry

Absolutely, it just goes to show how easy it is to harm a younger player like Wilshere by calling him up to the full squad too early. Arsenal fans saw what going to the WC did to Theo, and while I was pleased for him I was slightly concerned that something similar could happen to Wilshere if he shone for England against Hungary. I think instead Capello handled him very well - gave him that debut for a few minutes which was nice and has now let him drop back down to the U21s with that experience but without the hype and madness.

[Rob1981]

Not to mention that the U21s actually have a pretty crucial game to play, really on the back foot a bit in terms of qualification for Denmark next year.

Too many lazy journos that don't bother to look down there at the fixtures/competitions.

[aggressive minor]

If Capello did this a year ago it would be hailed as a masterstroke in Wilshire's development.

I don't remember a manager ever having it as bad as Capello from the press- not Hoddle/Sven/Keegan/Venables- even McClaren. I was too young to remembe Taylor, but I'm guessing he would have ran Capello close.

media such pricks.

[bolton1987]

I don't remember a manager ever having it as bad as Capello from the press.

What? He was hardly getting criticism in the run-up to the World Cup before our flop.

[aggressive minor]

obviously I'm talking about after the WC. I'm not saying he didn't make mistakes at the WC, but before anything he did was hailed as a masterpiece, I now cringe at reading any article about him. Suddenly he's become the worst ever coach to exist.

Theres so many things. They loved him for being tough about not knowing about the starting line ups and him banning WAG's. Then after the WC- it's OMG Holland could have WAGs, they got the final, Capello gets blasted for not letting the players see the WAGs- yet it's the same thing that distracted us at the 2006 WC, apparantley. Players are to blame too, before not knowing who was in the team 'kept you on your toes etc', then a few pricks like James say a few saracastic comments and it all changes.

The Wilshire incident is just one example of how a perfectly logical thing, is turned into a Capello-****-fest

[tcoleman1]

I have to say if Andy Carroll keeps on scoring then he has to be considered for England, unfortunately. Although he's a good player, there is something about him as a person I really don't like. He's got awful hair, he's a dick of a person and he's pretty much like Joey Barton. His shouting assualt at the ref I saw on match of the day, he looked like he was going to kill him I know Ballack did it to the ref in the CL and he's 6ft whatever of solid muscle and even he didn't look that scary.

[Razzler]

It's almost as if the press feel duped in some way and let down so are lashing out at Capello.

Taylor got beyond the joke to the point where 'what the media would say' seemed to become something he would consider before doing anything, you could see that in that documentary and it's a slippery slope. Something would happen and he'd turn to McMenemy and say "what will they say about that" and things like that.

Capello seemed to make an effort to not celebrate or react in any way to goals in our friendly, I wondered if he's trying to reclaim his 'tough' image as the press aren't having it anymore, from last season of worshipping him he's become some bumbling idiot that can't speak English in their eyes!

He said in that link above 'nothing wrong with English, all come from one interview I did, I can't discuss politics in English but football it's no problem at all' so glad he's setting people straight

[skybluedave]

I read on the Sun website about how Capello is a donkey for dropping Wilshere. I don't read the sun but went on there to check the fantasy football scores Anyway, the user comments on the article hardly agreed with the article. So it shows how stupid it's got, when your average Sun reader doesn't even agree with the Capello hate.

[Rob1981]

Press will get bored with it pretty soon I reckon, Capello clearly isn't going to get the sack for at least 13 months whatever happens. If we get at least 4 points from the two games he'll be the best think since sliced bread again. Mind you, that's a big if... pretty tough group that we're in and only playing 8 games instead of 10 or 12 means very little margin for error.

[aggressive minor]

Sadly I think it's pretty bad damage (media wise). He would need a good Euro 2012 to redeem himself, you know a heroic semi final defeat.

I was too young but, for older users, maybe a bit like Robson's 88 shambles being redeemed by 90.

[skybluedave]

We need to just draw a line under the WC and look forward. Judge Capello by what happens from now on in this campaign.

NOTW was saying Capello might drop Rooney? Surely not. For who? Bobby Zamora? Carlton Cole? No chance.

I reckon we'll stick with the 4231. Dawson and Jagielka at centre back. Huddlestone alongside Barry, but it could be Milner. or maybe Milner in for Adam Johnson on the left.

I'm out next Friday, so it'll be the first England game I've missed since the Ukraine game which was on the internet (though I did listen on the radio), and before that was the 3-1 away win to Belarus. Oh, I did miss the last 20 mins of the Germany game. Just couldn't sit through it, sat outside drowning my sorrows.

[Razzler]

NOTW are just making that up and basing it on nothing though. Not a chance in hell of Rooney being dropped. I am sure there are readers of that right now ranting "how dare he" "have you heard what he's gonna do" based on absolutely nothing!

Ah, yeah, forgot Jagielka

[tcoleman1]

In fairness though a lot of people were moaning that Lampard, Gerrard etc should be dropped because they have had their chance etc but if we go by that then Rooney should be dropped because he had just as bad a world cup as anyone

[Sheer Class]

I am hearing whispers that Nugent has a recall

[Razzler]

Are they in your head?

[aggressive minor]

Well we do have a serious shortage of quality strikers.

I say go for the Celtic lad, Hooper!

[Sheer Class]

Are they in your head?

Maybe :D

[brett.spurs]

Thought Scott Sutter looked pretty decent against us, think he's just been called upto the Swiss nat'l side though.

I just really don't rate Glen Johnson basically.