England - The Road to 2012 (now featuring Wayne Rooney) but not his touch

[dfgrigg]

There is absolutely 0% chance Roy will play a 3-4-2-1

Odds are our players wouldn't even understand it, anyway!

[Powlay]

Rio Ferdinand dropped for footballing reasons only played once for England in the last year or so, Gerrard played 33 minutes in the last 19 months!

hahaha oliverkaytimes pointing that out, im all for Roy, i support him but yeah you just got owned Roy.

[cms186]

a few suprises ( i would have taken crouch over caroll, lennon over walcott, jagielka or richards over jones and probably tried to find room for carrick somewhere ) but it looks alright for whats available

[ddidiodion]

Barry has played alongside Yaya Toure mostly who has shared the burden. In all honesty, City haven't had to do much actual defending because keeping the ball has been their primary line of defence at which Barry is excellent (and has done really well this year, it has to be said). Unfortunately we don't have a David Silva for him to play the ball off to and we won't have 65% of the possession in any match in the Euros. His actual defensive game isn't strong enough and I don't think he has the incisive passing to make up for not having a genuine creative outlet in the team.

[Lancer]

The mentality in England is just wrong. They will never win anything as long as players like Carrick get overlooked.

Martin Jol: "Carrick, who yesterday signed a new four-year deal, is United’s master-mind because he often wins back possession with his interceptions and gets the ball upfield quickly, passing into areas where his attackers are moving. He makes the hardest pass in football - the forward ball - look easy. When I had him at Spurs, every attack started with him and he was the reason we should have got into the Champions League after holding fourth place for seven months in 2005-06. Since he went to United they have won the title twice. Ferguson shares my opinions about his quality, even if others in England underrate him. He sees, he passes, and hits the ball with the right speed into the right area for his teammate. It’s a sudden flash of inspiration in his brain. It’s genius. United can play in all styles, but their most effective is the fast counter. Moves often start with Michael Carrick making an interception and playing a quick ball forward. The quality of Carrick’s passing helps him exploit the movement of Wayne Rooney, Cristiano Ronaldo and Carlos Tevez."

Xabi Alonso: "s. In English football sometimes it seems hard for people to rate those who instead of shining themselves make the team work as a collective. For example, Michael Carrick is a player who makes those around him play, regardless of the fact that maybe he is not the player that shines the most individually. 'It is more important to find players who can build a team rather than simply finding two very good players and putting them in the team even if they don't play so well together."

Xavi Hernandez: ""Carrick gives United balance and can play defensively, too, He passes well, has a good shot and is a complete player."

[cms186]

Reason for not fielding Rio? 1 Eng game in 12 months.

Who's captain? Steven Gerrard: 33 mins for Eng in 19 months.

Con-****ing-sistency.

except everyone knows "footballing reasons" isnt the reason rio isnt in the squad

[ham_aka_stam]

Barry started 34 of 38 games (3 sub appearances)

De Jong started 21 games

Take your point on England, but this year Barry has been immense at club level.

Fair enough, and to be honest, I'd field him ahead of Gerrard in CM (Would play Gerrard further up if I had to play him, and then he'd have to compete with Rooney and Lampard), but I doubt his ability to really hold the gap between the two. You can pretty much guarantee Carrick will. His positioning is always immaculate and has mostly suffered domestically this year from being next to Scholes in the sense that Scholes runs about the same speed as my gran these days.

[cms186]

a few suprises ( i would have taken crouch over caroll, lennon over walcott, jagielka or richards over jones and probably tried to find room for carrick somewhere ) but it looks alright for whats available

actually, would probably have found room for Joe Cole too

[ham_aka_stam]

except everyone knows "footballing reasons" isnt the reason rio isnt in the squad

Then why include Terry?

And why lie?

[McMaster#28]

I thought one of the reasons Rio wasn't in is because SAF told the FA he wasn't fit enough?

If the FA had picked him SAF would have been angry at them?

[Bootador]

Fair enough, and to be honest, I'd field him ahead of Gerrard in CM (Would play Gerrard further up if I had to play him, and then he'd have to compete with Rooney and Lampard), but I doubt his ability to really hold the gap between the two. You can pretty much guarantee Carrick will. His positioning is always immaculate and has mostly suffered domestically this year from being next to Scholes in the sense that Scholes runs about the same speed as my gran these days.

I'd honestly play Barry with Carrick, and save ourselves the pretence that we have any decent offensive central midfielders (on form and not way past their peak). Rely on the wingers, with Rooney behind Welbeck.

[Leppard]

Oh he made a pass, what a guy!

I covered his divvy kid doing a nice drawing passes already. I'd want this super duper passing further up the field, thanks not an every now and then pass, we have enough players knocking long balls around. He's hardly putting pass after pass on a six pence, I want more of it

He doesn't play further up the pitch because he's told not to. He's pretty much the only defensive cover United have in central midfield, so telling him to go and support Rooney and whoever would be suicide. (I'm sure someone's already said this...)

[CaptainPlanet]

Does every other country whinge and moan about their squad like this?

We're really so painfully negative it's hilarious, we're like a parody of ourselves in this thread.

[cms186]

Then why include Terry?

And why lie?

because he had to choose between the two and he chose terry

probably because the FA dont want to publicly acknowledge the fact two players dont get on and one of them could be found guilty of a criminal offence committed against the others brother, its pretty obvious what the reason is, and noone wants to talk about it, its all a bit silly, but perfectly understandable

[ham_aka_stam]

I'd honestly play Barry with Carrick, and save ourselves the pretence that we have any decent offensive central midfielders. Rely on the wingers, with Rooney behind Welbeck.

Exact reason I'd play Parker with Carrick. But I'd agree, Barry would work. If I see Barry alongside Lampard/Gerrard though I will cry.

My only tough decisions would be the wingers, and that'd be based on the opposition fullback choice more than anything else.

[Kopite]

That Pirlo and Ambrosini comment pretty much sums up Roy for me. Don't say we never warned you!

[ddidiodion]

He doesn't play further up the pitch because he's told not to. He's pretty much the only defensive cover United have in central midfield, so telling him to go and support Rooney and whoever would be suicide. (I'm sure someone's already said this...)

Yeah, let's get him to go and support Rooney who is in turn supporting Welbeck and leave Evans and Ferdinand 4v2 at the back. Honestly Razzler, do you moan Robin Van Persie doesn't do his fair share of goal line clearances? It's not his job ffs.

[davehanson]

I don't think Barry is mobile or quick enough to play the holding role at international level. He was dreadfully exposed against Germany at the last world cup, twice. He is okay at premiership level against teams that play 4-4-2's, but against international opposition who play between the lines he ain't good enough. Mind you, could say that about 80% of our team.

For my mind, our starting 11, at least in the first two games:

Hart

Johnson

Cole

Cahill

Terry

Gerrard

Parker

Oxlade-Chamerlain

Milner

Carroll

Walcott

Would have that back 4 due to three of them playing their club football for the same team. Don't think there is much to choose between Terry, Cahill & Lescott anyway, so just for continuity those three already know each others game. Johnson is the only sensible decision at right back.

Roy will almost certainly play a 4-4-2. Midfield, if we are going to play Carroll up top, need to supply crosses. Gerrard and Milner can deliver some decent balls so they would play in the wide positions for me. Ox breaking from central midfield, ala Scholes, is a better option than Lampard. Lampard could have a role to play later on in games, but don't feel you can play Gerrard and Lampard in the same team anymore. Parker doing the ball winning/holding role - best we have for that position.

Up top Carroll and Walcott. Walcott can drop into the midfield when we lose it to play a 5 there, which is why I would have him there instead of Defoe or Wellbeck. His pace centrally could get at centre-backs as well. Carroll is our only option up front I believe.

[ham_aka_stam]

because he had to choose between the two and he chose terry

probably because the FA dont want to publicly acknowledge the fact two players dont get on and one of them could be found guilty of a criminal offence committed against the others brother, its pretty obvious what the reason is, and noone wants to talk about it, its all a bit silly, but perfectly understandable

If that's the reason then why not pick the innocent one? We have plenty of CBs who can play the Terry role, and few who can play the Rio role to the same extent.

Include the increased likelihood of a Terry distraction, the fact that he's had to be stripped of the captaincy, and that he's generally not a very nice person and I would've thought the decision speaks for itself.

The fact that he dismissed Rio's fitness as a concern, (which I'd completely understand) means he simply had to pick Rio of the two. I have doubts that Rio can play every game in a senior international tournament now, and would be tempted to choose neither Rio nor Terry.

[ham_aka_stam]

Johnson is the only sensible decision at right back.

Really ?

[Razzler]

He doesn't play further up the pitch because he's told not to. He's pretty much the only defensive cover United have in central midfield, so telling him to go and support Rooney and whoever would be suicide. (I'm sure someone's already said this...)

I know what he does and I said what I would want him to do where his passing can be effective otherwise no, thanks.

When everyone is playing well Carrick is great and United tend to have good runs through the season but chips are down ... do I want Carrick in my team? Nah, it's alright

[davehanson]

Really ?

Who else in that squad is going to play right-back? Should have taken Richards, but he hasn't, so can only work with what is there.

[ham_aka_stam]

He doesn't play further up the pitch because he's told not to. He's pretty much the only defensive cover United have in central midfield, so telling him to go and support Rooney and whoever would be suicide. (I'm sure someone's already said this...)

Yeah, let's get him to go and support Rooney who is in turn supporting Welbeck and leave Evans and Ferdinand 4v2 at the back. Honestly Razzler, do you moan Robin Van Persie doesn't do his fair share of goal line clearances? It's not his job ffs.

Razzler's team going include Jones and Milner at CB so that they can get forward and make passes around the opposition's area? Stick Rooney in goal too, I've never seen Hart as many passes in the opposition's half as Rooney.

[Guv'nor]

There is absolutely 0% chance Roy will play a 3-4-2-1

Odds are our players wouldn't even understand it, anyway!

Indeed, having invented the game, we remain stuck in our archaic preachings, disciples of a prehistoric curriculum. The game is evolving and leaving England so far behind its embarrassing. Even the 4-2-3-1, look at how rigid ours is when compared with that of Spain or Germany. The same players we claim to be world-class are so one dimensional its disgraceful. The thought of a centre-half moving out wide to cover the channels causes apoplexy in all, yet the likes of Figueroa and Alcaraz can do it with no effing problem for a fraction of the salary and for a sh*tter club under the kosh! God forbid we dare to play Rooney in a position that would give him more freedom to effect the game, as opposed to unfront chasing shadows till the red mist descends. We are an embarrassment to ourselves. In as much as one wanted an Englishman at the helm, it wont make the blindest bit of difference, we're too stuck in our ways. Our managers think within the box and players can only move in straight lines about a vertical axis.

All that remains is for Zlatan to drop into the hole and chaos to reign between defence and midfield, as no one knows who should venture 5 yards outside of their comfort zone to pick him up.

[cms186]

If that's the reason then why not pick the innocent one? We have plenty of CBs who can play the Terry role, and few who can play the Rio role to the same extent.

Include the increased likelihood of a Terry distraction, the fact that he's had to be stripped of the captaincy, and that he's generally not a very nice person and I would've thought the decision speaks for itself.

The fact that he dismissed Rio's fitness as a concern, (which I'd completely understand) means he simply had to pick Rio of the two. I have doubts that Rio can play every game in a senior international tournament now, and would be tempted to choose neither Rio nor Terry.

well atm, they are both innocent, you know that pesky innocent till proven guilty thing? and i assume he tried to make the decision based purely on on the field aspects, if he doesnt think rio can play all the games, then i can see why he picked terry

[ham_aka_stam]

Who else in that squad is going to play right-back? Should have taken Richards, but he hasn't, so can only work with what is there.

Ahh, didn't realise you were picking from the squad RH chose. Fair enough.

[Razzler]

If that's the reason then why not pick the innocent one? We have plenty of CBs who can play the Terry role, and few who can play the Rio role to the same extent.

Terry is not guilty (yet). The youtube footage I have seen of the Anton incident hardly proves anything either so unless there is something more conclusive I can't see him guilty based on that (whether he did it or not)

If he leaves Terry out and picks Rio I doubt Rio will be in the next World Cup squad whereas Terry may well be (can't remember his age) so I can't see him dropping Terry for this and then bringing him back for the World Cup 'ok, I want you back now'.

Rio playing 3 or 4 games in a short period? What if his back causes problems again? We have been through this with players at tournaments before

[CaptainPlanet]

Am I the only one who doesn't mind us playing 4-4-2?

[Ricky Button]

So, squad numbers anyone? Are they out yet? where can we find them? I want to waste money on a replica shirt.

[Razzler]

Indeed' date=' having invented the game, we remain stuck in our archaic preachings, disciples of a prehistoric curriculum. The game is evolving and leaving England so far behind its embarrassing. Even the 4-2-3-1, look at how rigid ours is when compared with that of Spain or Germany. The same players we claim to be world-class are so one dimensional its disgraceful. The thought of a centre-half moving out wide to cover the channels causes apoplexy in all, yet the likes of Figueroa and Alcaraz can do it with no effing problem for a fraction of the salary and for a sh*tter club under the kosh! God forbid we dare to play Rooney in a position that would give him more freedom to effect the game, as opposed to unfront chasing shadows till the red mist descends. We are an embarrassment to ourselves. In as much as one wanted an Englishman at the helm, it wont make the blindest bit of difference, we're too stuck in our ways. Our managers think within the box and players can only move in straight lines about a vertical axis.[/quote']

I am not sure the Wigan defence should be used in any argument tbh

I am sure the Managers do have plenty of ideas but whenever we change things it's the players that wander around clueless with what to do. To have intelligent players you need an intelligent young lad and take a look at some of these people, ffs!

[Razzler]

Am I the only one who doesn't mind us playing 4-4-2?

Depends how exactly we do it

[Kenco]

Gerrard coming in for a lot of stick here. The major reason behind his poor form is poor tactics at Liverpool, playing him in a deeper midfield position in the majority of games to make up for the lack of Lucas. Let him play the free role behind the striker in a 4-2-3-1 and we'll see the best of him.

[chopper99]

Am I the only one who doesn't mind us playing 4-4-2?

It hasn't exactly worked for us in the past.

[Philip Rolfe]

Gerrard coming in for a lot of stick here. The major reason behind his poor form is poor tactics at Liverpool, playing him in a deeper midfield position in the majority of games to make up for the lack of Lucas. Let him play the free role behind the striker in a 4-2-3-1 and we'll see the best of him.

Well it's the only way you're going to, given he's shown time and again that he's not suited to any other role and has been unable to adapt his game to his increased physical shortcomings.

[Icondacarver]

MARS Inc:

Congratulations to Stewart Downing on winning the Mars' competition to go to the Euro's with the England Team

...........

[ham_aka_stam]

well atm, they are both innocent, you know that pesky innocent till proven guilty thing? and i assume he tried to make the decision based purely on on the field aspects, if he doesnt think rio can play all the games, then i can see why he picked terry

I should have said "most likely to be innocent".

As for the fitness concerns see my response to the below:

Rio playing 3 or 4 games in a short period? What if his back causes problems again? We have been through this with players at tournaments before

Hodgson said Rio's fitness is not a concern. He said he's played 3 games in 7 days for United this season.

So, squad numbers anyone? Are they out yet? where can we find them? I want to waste money on a replica shirt.

Get Richards or Carrick on the back with a big fat 0.

[Guv'nor]

@Razzler, the point being made by referencing the Wigan defence was that ordinary, bog standards from abroad can slot into different defensive shapes with no problem, yet our world beaters struggle. Ask Terry to cover for Cole in the channel and he'll be winding up a big sliding tackle 40 yards from goal. Ask Parker to move between defence and midfield ala Sergio Busquets and he'll volunteer his head to be stamped on by Balotelli instead. Why are we so f*cking thick on the playing field?

[CaptainPlanet]

It hasn't exactly worked for us in the past.

With the squad we have, expectations should be pretty low anyway, I don't think a change in formation is going to drastically change how well we can perform.

[brett.spurs]

[Razzler]

Well it's the only way you're going to, given he's shown time and again that he's not suited to any other role and has been unable to adapt his game to his increased physical shortcomings.

Think I'd rather have Ashley Young in that role as well tbh (behind striker) if we're doing that.

When Gerrard has got forward this season it's hardly with the usual burst or with any ability to grab hold of a game

[Leppard]

Am I the only one who doesn't mind us playing 4-4-2?

Well, United technically play a 4-4-2 with Rooney dropping off. If England can play like that, then I don't mind.

[Razzler]

@Razzler' date=' the point being made by referencing the Wigan defence was that ordinary, bog standards from abroad can slot into different defensive shapes with no problem, yet our world beaters struggle. Ask Terry to cover for Cole in the channel and he'll be winding up a big sliding tackle 40 yards from goal. Ask Parker to move between defence and midfield ala Sergio Busquets and he'll volunteer his head to be stamped on by Balotelli instead. Why are we so f*cking thick on the playing field?[/quote']

I agree with your general point I just japing that Wigan defenders have conceded plenty of goals this season. Granted when the formation has changed later on they seem to have adapted well but they hardly adapted to well in the 30 games prior to those changes to formation! It's like reverse England. OK like this but can't change, they can change but were hopeless beforehand

[SeanNUFC]

I'm starting to feel sorry for Downing.

[Leppard]

I love how it says "Unbelievable!" - Zidane

[ham_aka_stam]

Would anyone have picked Sturridge? I sure as hell would've.

Well, United technically play a 4-4-2 with Rooney dropping off. If England can play like that, then I don't mind.

Only difference is United expect to dominate most games.

[hursty2]

There shouldn't be a Liverpool player anywhere near that squad.

[Select_screen_name:]

We supply the most players.

[SeanNUFC]

Would anyone have picked Sturridge? I sure as hell would've.

.

I would've taken him over Wellbeck and picked Crouch also.

[hursty2]

Well, apart from Johnson as he's our only right back.

[Pukey]

Downing in the squad and Henderson on stand by? How?