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England - The Road to 2012 (now featuring Wayne Rooney) but not his touch

jmr

By jmr,
in Euro 2012 Forum

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ham_aka_stam

ham_aka_stam

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Yes. A holding player. That's what I think of with Carrick. Carrick is never playing a holding role for England.

I am sure he's really happy about that as it means he can sink further and further back on the pitch so to face the least pressure possible. His tackling does nothing for me. I'd never play Carrick as a holding player, I am sure if Fergie had some money he may not either

That makes no sense. Why wouldn't you? You think of a holding player when you think of Carrick but you'd never play him there?

Parker and Carrick would be a fantastic twosome behind a player like Lampard or Gerrard. Stick Rooney up top and play two wingers who can come inside and provide or go outside and cross and you're absolutely laughing. It's what every other nation will do, but not England. No. We need all-action. 4-4-2 hoof-ball bollocks.

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ham_aka_stam

ham_aka_stam

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Downing and no Richards pretty much the only ones everyone would agree on being odd choices. if you averaged out what everyone wanted it wouldn't be far off what has been picked.

Except when you consider that ANYONE who wouldn't pick Carrick clearly is a Premier League centric-fooball-idiot.

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Posted
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That makes no sense. Why wouldn't you? You think of a holding player when you think of Carrick but you'd never play him there?

Parker and Carrick would be a fantastic twosome behind a player like Lampard or Gerrard. Stick Rooney up top and play two wingers who can come inside and provide or go outside and cross and you're absolutely laughing. It's what every other nation will do, but not England. No. We need all-action. 4-4-2 hoof-ball bollocks.

You was told by Liverpool fans about him.

Get his CV out, lads.

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Razzler

Razzler

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That bit was sarcastic :D

I am not sure what formation Uncle Woy will be playing and I have heard all the arguments for Carrick down the years, all the defences and the stats for how great he is and how no one understands how great he is.

He doesn't do it for me. I'd have him playing further forward or not at all but then he can't get as much time on the ball as he wants

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Razzler

Razzler

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Razzler has not seen Carrick once this season has he?

Carrick made the pass of the season and it wasn't exactly a one off either.

[video=youtube;kOePbJgnjQo]

Oh he made a pass, what a guy!

I covered his divvy kid doing a nice drawing passes already. I'd want this super duper passing further up the field, thanks not an every now and then pass, we have enough players knocking long balls around. He's hardly putting pass after pass on a six pence, I want more of it

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ham_aka_stam

ham_aka_stam

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Shocking, more than anything else it means Gerrard is going to be a starter :(

Which I honestly can only understand if you plan on playing who holding players behind him. Carrick and Parker. Maybe Carrick and Barry. Bet we'll see Gerrard and Barry at CM with Downing on the left and Young on the right followed by bitching and moaning about how badly Young plays for England.

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CaptainPlanet

CaptainPlanet

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Except when you consider that ANYONE who wouldn't pick Carrick clearly is a Premier League centric-fooball-idiot.

If we're playing a 4-4-2 (which we will be) who would you put Carrick with in the middle of the park?

Put him with Lampard/Gerrard and we're exposed at the back. Put him with Barry/Parker and we don't have enough going forward.

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noikeee

noikeee

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Parker and Carrick would be a fantastic twosome behind a player like Lampard or Gerrard. Stick Rooney up top and play two wingers who can come inside and provide or go outside and cross and you're absolutely laughing. It's what every other nation will do, but not England. No. We need all-action. 4-4-2 hoof-ball bollocks.

Exactly!

That doesn't mean a 2-banks-of-four tactic can't be effective at holding off superior teams to England, and you guys will face superior teams, but that would be far more efficient against Ukraine and Sweden where the burden of attack will be on England.

Either way I don't like England so not too bothered about them shooting themselves in the feet, but as a neutral it's going to make for dull games.

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ddidiodion

ddidiodion

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If we're playing a 4-4-2 (which we will be) who would you put Carrick with in the middle of the park?

Put him with Lampard/Gerrard and we're exposed at the back. Put him with Barry/Parker and we don't have enough going forward.

It's a question of do we have another midfielder other than Carrick who is suited to playing in a midfield 2.

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ham_aka_stam

ham_aka_stam

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If we're playing a 4-4-2 (which we will be) who would you put Carrick with in the middle of the park?

I wouldn't. Because I wouldn't play 4-4-2. But assuming Rooney is one of the two, and thus more of a 4-2-3-1, I'd play Parker and Carrick. Both very efficient with the ball, allowing those further forwards more of the ball, and will also help involve FBs (Richards and Cole in my team) because you've got two men covering.

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ham_aka_stam

ham_aka_stam

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I would happily have Lampard in any starting XI over Gerrard right now. It's alarming how little is being made of Gerrard's awful form lately
Steven Gerrard: Liverpool won 27% of their Premier League matches this season that Gerrard featured in, compared to 45% without him

For once I agree with you Razz.

But I still wouldn't play Lampard, I'd have him on the bench.

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Razzler

Razzler

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For once I agree with you Razz.

But I still wouldn't play Lampard, I'd have him on the bench.

I probably would too but in the eternal Lampard vs Gerrard battle ... not Carrick ahead of him though ;)

I saw some frightening stats a month or so back about the difference in not only Gerrard's stats but the other players in terms of tackles and interceptions and passes for when Gerrard is on/out of the Liverpool team

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ham_aka_stam

ham_aka_stam

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I'd imagine we'd go Barry/Parker or even Lampard/Parker in that 4-2-3-1. Haven't we done that already before? Can't remember

Barry isn't a holding player. He'll bomb forward trying to be Gerrard MK II just like he did against Germany. Parker is a terrier, closes people down, thus leaving a whole while trying to cover for Barry.

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dfgrigg

dfgrigg

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If we're playing a 4-4-2 (which we will be) who would you put Carrick with in the middle of the park?

Put him with Lampard/Gerrard and we're exposed at the back. Put him with Barry/Parker and we don't have enough going forward.

I suspect it will be a 4-4-1-1 quite often, actually. Roy used that a lot at Fulham and West Brom.

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Bootador

Bootador

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Barry isn't a holding player. He'll bomb forward trying to be Gerrard MK II just like he did against Germany. Parker is a terrier, closes people down, thus leaving a whole while trying to cover for Barry.

Barry has been our first choice holding player all season :confused:

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ddidiodion

ddidiodion

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Parker is a terrier, closes people down, thus leaving a whole while trying to cover for Barry.

Carrick's actual shielding of the back four always goes unnoticed because he doesn't chase the opposition rightback past the half way line and leave a massive gaping space behind him for Ozil/Gotze/Iniesta/*insert another generic talented attacking mid we don't have here*

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Guv'nor

Guv'nor

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A real no thrills, safety first approach from Roy. The squad reeks of conformity rather than change, same old same olds, but, theres more to it than meets the eye. Roy is all but ensuring his job for the next tournament. England are expected to do diddley-squat and by giving the stage to the 'Golden Generation', Roy has his ready-made excuse. If we fail, then alas, it was a time for change and he gave the old stalwarts one last crack at the whip before the cull. If they succeed, then it was the right thing to stand by them.

As far as our chances be concerned, they're purely tactical. Joe Hart, Cole and possibly Rooney aside, no one else comes close to making the starting 11 for most of the favourites. Hodgson needs to take a good look at what he has, through untainted glasses. Following orthodoxy has done nothing but highlight our weaknesses. We cant keep possession, are over-reliant on Rooney and have no genuine creativity outside of him. If England are to do anything, they need to borrow from Greece's formula, be strongest where you are strong and play to your comparative advantage. We cant play ticki-tacka, we're not good enough. What we can do is very much what Chelsea did against Barca, dig deep, break on the counter and hit the big man. Its not pretty, but its f*cking effective. Unfortunately for England, our big man is a cumbersome oaf with a pony-tail and a woman's name, Carroll, albeit a surname. I'd play Rooney in a deeper, playmakers role, allowing him to link midfield and attack, with Young breaking from inside to the channels. A flexible 3-4-2-1

................Wellbeck/Carroll..................

.......Rooney.......................Young.......

Cole........Gerrard..........Parker......Milner

......Cahill.......Terence.....Jones............

.......................Hart..........................

The flexibility comes in the backline, in that it can easily become a back four if Cole is pegged back and as Jones is able to play right-back, Milner can stay forward. Parker sits in front of the defence, given us a back four (3-1 split). Theres enough bodies in central areas to avoid being outnumbered by three-man midfields and width coming from Cole, Milner and Young. Rooney would be given a free-role to try and effect the game however he can and Wellbeck stays right up top, or drop in between the two behind to given a deep front three. Boom!

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ham_aka_stam

ham_aka_stam

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Barry has been our first choice holding player all season :confused:

Alongside De Jong? I'd call NDJ the holding player there. But I must admit to rarely watching City this season. I have however seen Barry play for England, and he never holds well.

Carrick's actual shielding of the back four always goes unnoticed because he doesn't chase the opposition rightback past the half way line and leave a massive gaping space behind him for Ozil/Gotze/Iniesta/*insert another generic talented attacking mid we don't have here*

Exactly exactly exactly.

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Bootador

Bootador

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Alongside De Jong? I'd call NDJ the holding player there. But I must admit to rarely watching City this season. I have however seen Barry play for England, and he never holds well.

Barry started 34 of 38 league games (3 sub appearances)

De Jong started 21 games

Take your point on England, but this year Barry has been immense at club level.

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