England - The Road to 2012 (now featuring Wayne Rooney) but not his touch

[OutClassed]

Goalkeepers: Hart, Ruddy, Green

Fullbacks: Walker, Richards, Cole, Baines

Centre backs: Lescott, Jagielka, Terry, Smalling

Central midfielders: Parker, Carrick, Lampard, Barry

Wingers: Young, Walcott, Sinclair, Johnson

Strikers: Rooney, Welbeck, Defoe, Carroll/Holt.

As someone said, impossible to say who Hodgson favours.

[joe__the__man]

Also, people including Terry doesn't say much. They're also including Gerrard who's been awful (except that hattrick in the derby ).

Gerrard a bit different as there's no real alternatives except maybe Tom Cleverley, whilst with Terry there's plenty of good alternatives. Terry has been good this season.

Tell me the differences between them. None of them are target men, none of them are pure finishers, none of them are defensive forwards (Dirk, Walters, Olic). They're pace merchants.

What a load of crap, as usual. Can't be arsed to go into more detail.

[Tom14]

All kinds of wrong...

I'd go with;

Hart, Someone, Someone else

Richards, Walker

Baines, Cole

Terry, Ferdinand, Cahill, Jagielka

Carrick, Parker, Lampard, Barry, Gerrard

Young, Lennon, Milner, Walcott

Rooney, Welbeck, Sturridge

The same team as I picked other than I'd have Lescott ahead of Jagielka in defence. I also had Oxlade-Chamberlain and Johnson instead of Milner and Walcott. Lennon and Walcott are too similar to have together and Johnson for Milner as he's left footed so could play a traditional left winger role.

[SeanNUFC]

You know its a bloody outrage no one its mentioning Danny Simpson. The guy is turning down 25k a week, he MUST be good enough!

[SCIAG]

The Telegraph has Rickie Lambert and Kelvin Davis as options for the squad...

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/teams/england/9254799/Who-should-England-manager-Roy-Hodgson-select-for-Euro-2012-squad.html

They aren't doing particularly well in the voting.

What an awful poll. McEachran as an attacking midfielder and Gerrard as a central midfielder? Four strikers for one position?

I'd take:

Hart, Ruddy, Green; G. Johnson, Smalling, Cahill, Jagielka, Lescott, A. Cole, Baines; Parker, Carrick, Scholes, Lampard, Cleverley; A. Young, Sturridge, Walcott, Milner, A. Johnson; Rooney, Welbeck, Crouch.

Start with a 4-1-4-1 and move to a 4-2-3-1 when Rooney is available or if Welbeck is too isolated up front (Milner or Lampard could play in the hole). Really tempted to throw AOC in there.

[CaptainPlanet]

Has Scholes ever remotely said he would consider making a comeback?

[brett.spurs]

He would've done for Harry

[ddidiodion]

Tell me the differences between them. None of them are target men, none of them are pure finishers, none of them are defensive forwards (Dirk, Walters, Olic). They're pace merchants.

You've honestly never seen Welbeck play have you?

[Select_screen_name:]

Yes, I have. Tell me what you'd file him under then.

[iamjerome]

could sort of see how walcott and sturridge be too similar to each other, but lennon and welbeck? baffling

[Select_screen_name:]

They're just pace merchants. The lot of them. Stick Agbonlahor in there with them as well. Fast, with so so end product. Throw them on the pitch as a winger/outside forward and try to get beyond the fullbacks.

[mcsheffreygreat]

How old is select_screen_name fwiw?

[Tom14]

Walcott and Lennon are pretty much the same player and are traditional wingers. Walcott has much more of a goalscoring threat though and can veer infield a times. Sturridge can play as a centre forward or as an inside forward from the right and is definitely not a traditional winger. Welbeck is best as a central striker who can either drop a little deeper and collect the ball or receive it in the channels and is absolutely nothing like Lennon or Walcott.

[ddidiodion]

Honestly baffled, where did you get the idea that Welbeck is a pace merchant? Most of his best work is done with his back to goal.

[MrDiCanio]

Shall we include Kyle Walker too? He's just a fast bloke as well.

[skybluedave]

And Thierry Henry

[Tom14]

Yeah doesn't matter what position these fast players play in apparently. If they are fast they are 'just a pace merchant'!

[CaptainPlanet]

There a quite a few "not bad" formation options we could take for the first two games without Rooney. But they're all as much of a gamble and a bit "meh" as each other.

Defoe, Bent, Welbeck, Sturridge, Crouch, Holt, Graham all have about 10 goals each this season, with Defoe having played a lot less and having a much better minute-per-goal ratio.

Bent is injured and don't know what state he'll be in by the time the summer comes, Holt/Graham are probably bigger gambles as smaller team players who have had a good season each, Welbeck and Sturridge are more than likely going to have more of an England future than any of them, but Defoe and Crouch have more experience at this level and are more consistent.

Then you have Carroll who has been awful all season and for a game and a half at the end of the season has decided he's actually John Carew in one of his unplayable phases.

Apart from Rooney, I would say only Carroll and Crouch would have the opposition centrebacks going "oh great, that's who I'm up against tonight?"

[Select_screen_name:]

They obviously all have their individual talents, some more than each other. But their main attribute is pace and attacking from the the wings/inside forward position. Like Agbonlahor. probably the biggest idiot in football and almost all of his game is pace, but he can still score, get in the box and head in goals.

[ddidiodion]

They obviously all have their individual talents, some more than each other. But their main attribute is pace and attacking from the the wings/inside forward position. Like Agbonlahor. probably the biggest idiot in football and almost all of his game is pace, but he can still score, get in the box and head in goals.

[Select_screen_name:]

In a 4-3-3, yes.

[Tom14]

They obviously all have their individual talents, some more than each other. But their main attribute is pace and attacking from the the wings/inside forward position. Like Agbonlahor. probably the biggest idiot in football and almost all of his game is pace, but he can still score, get in the box and head in goals.

The main attribute of most good wingers/inside forwards is pace though. How is it a negative?

[Select_screen_name:]

Who said it's a negative?

[Tom14]

In a 4-3-3, yes.

Sturridge's role in a 4-3-3 is not all about his pace though.

[ddidiodion]

In a 4-3-3, yes.

What..? just no, when was the last time you saw Welbeck play, his time for Sunderland? In a 4-3-3 Welbeck is the lone striker, he's not a pace merchant and to be honest he doesn't utilize his pace anywhere near enough.

[Tom14]

Who said it's a negative?

Apologies. I've looked back at what you said and I thought you were implying that they were only pace merchants and therefore had nothing else to offer.

[Select_screen_name:]

What..? just no, when was the last time you saw Welbeck play, his time for Sunderland? In a 4-3-3 Welbeck is the lone striker.

Right, so you're absolutely confident Welbeck has the ability to lead the England line on his own?

[ddidiodion]

Right, so you're absolutely confident Welbeck has the ability to lead the England line on his own?

I think only Rooney is truly capable of doing that at the moment, but out of everyone else Welbeck is the most suitable.

[Select_screen_name:]

I wouldn't. I'd say there's Carroll, Holt, Zamora, and Crouch who would do a better job there. And that's why you'd need to take one.

[ddidiodion]

I wouldn't. I'd say there's Carroll, Holt, Zamora, and Crouch who would do a better job there. And that's why you'd need to take one.

:lol: You think Carroll would be a better choice to lead the line for England than Welbeck...

[Select_screen_name:]

In a heartbeat, yes.

[ddidiodion]

Then to complete my hattrick of derisory .gif's

[joe__the__man]

Oh yeah, I forgot you were a Liverpool fan!

[CaptainPlanet]

Don't worry lads, David Bentley has been quoted today as saying he would never turn down the opportunity to represent his country if needed this summer.

[G-Man11]

SSN racist? Lennon, Sturridge, Walcott, Welbeck, Agbonlahor all pace merchants according to him, all happen to be black.

[Select_screen_name:]

It's not even about 'my players better than yours lol!!'. It's about the style of player and that Those players can bully defenders. Welbeck can't. If you haven't got those players in your team, with a different approach to tactics, then your screwed. All you end up doing then is the tactic of shame of throwing up one of your central defenders when you're 1-0 down with 15 minutes to go.

[Select_screen_name:]

SSN racist? Lennon, Sturridge, Walcott, Welbeck, Agbonlahor all pace merchants according to him, all happen to be black.

You're the one whose made that connection. I'd have a word with yourself...

[Tom14]

I think it's more a reflection of people's desire to see England actually try to compete that they wouldn't have Carroll, Holt, Zamora, and Crouch in the squad. Yes they are tall and can 'bully' defenders but none of them are prolific. We need more than that for an international tournament. Hoofball died in the early 90's. I'd go Welbeck every time above any of the names you listed. I mean Holt and Zamora. Come on!

[MrDiCanio]

"made that connection" It's not racist to notice theyre black ffs.

Calling them "all the same" however

[Select_screen_name:]

I think it's more a reflection of people's desire to see England actually try to compete that they wouldn't have Carroll, Holt, Zamora, and Crouch in the squad. Yes they are tall and can 'bully' defenders but none of them are prolific. We need more than that for an international tournament. Hoofball died in the early 90's. I'd go Welbeck every time above any of the names you listed. I mean Holt and Zamora. Come on!

And when Welbeck doesn't work? What if he's getting rattled (not in a gay way) by the defenders and theres not outlet? You then have no options. Even Spain has Llorente.

[CaptainPlanet]

[ddidiodion]

Holt scores enough goals, the problem is the way he does it gives away far too many fouls because you just can't put yourself about like that anymore in international football. Zamora, Crouch and Carroll all have the same problem but aren't prolific enough anyway.

Player	        Team	                Minutes played	Goals	Average (Min)
Grant Holt	Norwich City	        2099	        14	149.9
Danny Welbeck	Manchester United	2017	        9	224.1
Peter Crouch	Stoke City	        2599	        10	259.9
Bobby Zamora	QPR	                2123	        6	335.8
Andy Carroll	Liverpool	        1973	        4	493.3

Welbeck is more than physical enough to lead the line for England for 2 games and has an excellent relationship with Rooney plus he has lead the line a few times this season for Man Utd and you got a glimpse of that for England when he came on against Spain. The other benefit is he's actually a really good footballer and his link up play is miles ahead of any of the others you've mentioned. Carroll doesn't deserve to be allowed out of the UK during the Euro's incase he turns up to watch. Mentioning him in the same sentence as the rest of them is an insult, he's done nothing to warrant that when he can't even force his way in next to Suarez who is begging for a decent partner.

[CaptainPlanet]

his link up play is miles ahead of any of the others you've mentioned

Crouchys link up play is pretty good to be fair.

[Select_screen_name:]

I don't think he's better than any with linking up, tbh. Welbeck, that is.

[ddidiodion]

Crouchys link up play is pretty good to be fair.

He's certainly got a good touch for a big man. You can see for Man Utd how good Welbecks link up play is though, for me he's the reason I'd take Gerrard to the Euro's as (as long as he's fit) they'd dovetail really well while Rooney is out. We wont get anywhere lumping the ball up to Crouch in the air, while Rooney is out we'll need a striker who can take the ball with his back to goal, hold it up and lay it off for the midfield runners, there hasn't been anyone (English) better than Welbeck at that this season.

I don't think he's better than any with linking up, tbh. Welbeck, that is.

Yeah I figured you thought that, it doesn't mean you're not wrong though

[Tom14]

I agree Welbeck should be our main striker while Rooney is out. Crouch just isn't successful enough. I can't remember a single time when lumping it up to him has worked in a big game against meaningful opposition.

[CaptainPlanet]

I'd play Welbeck with Rooney when Rooney is available, but I wouldn't without him. Because we don't have a Rooney replacement we'd need a different shape and style and I don't think Welbeck is good enough or "the right fit" to play in it.

I'd play Crouch and Defoe, they've both had solid seasons, have good experience, good goal return, good partnership history and are both fit. And would fit in well with the fact that our biggest asset is attacking fullbacks and choice of wingers rather than a dynamic centre of the park.

[Tom14]

Granted we have poor options for forwards for the first two games but I really struggle with the notion that anyone could want Crouch and Defoe as our two strikers in an international tournament. They have been average at best this season.

[DeafParrot]

Bent should still go, as long as he can play in the two friendlies before the tournament starts.

I'd take Rooney, Bent, Crouch and Welbeck as my four, and would play them in that order. Carroll hasn't done nearly enough yet despite his recent upturn in form.

[roseboy64]

Would think this is England best lineup for the first game:

Hart

Richards Lescott Ferdinand Cole

Carrick CM Barry

Walcott Welbeck Young

Would pick someone else over Welbeck but think the linkup play possible between him and the other two upfront might negate the need for a big man up top. Someone like Cleverley or Wilshere would be ideal for the 3rd CM role, would burst forward and link up with the front 3. The former doesn't deserve to go based on limited games and the other injured. Would guess Lampard or Gerrard in there.