England vs Hungary August Your Starting 11,

[CaptainPlanet]

http://www.skysports.com/football/world-cup-2010/story/0,27032,12016_6244274,00.html

FWIW Capello saying he'll make changes.

[aggressive minor]

It's only the last year I think that Carragher and Heskey declined enough for them not to be good enough for the team. Iirc Carragher was pretty solid during 08/09. Thing is though, both Terry and Carragher would have been alright with Rio alongside them I think, just not together.

As for Heskey, I think Capello should just have gone for C.Cole, if he wanted a big powerful striker.

[Powlay]

http://www.newsoftheworld.co.uk/sport/766075/CAPELLO-READY-TO-CALL-ON-CARROLL.html

http://www.tribalfootball.com/capello-moves-keep-newcastle-striker-carroll-england-863801

No quotes or anything.

So its the NOTW (which is a totally reliable source!) and TB (which is as reliable as a bus) which say it. Not anyo other mainstream places?

[Confused Clarity]

If he gets game time next season and if England do indeed move to a 4231 formation, Jenas wouldn't be a bad player to have in the England setup. Whether it be as a starter or on the bench, would have to feel he would be able to offer something in the way of being able to pass and being comfortable on the ball.

[Philip Rolfe]

Continuing to chuckle at people looking to get rid of perfectly capable footballers and replacing them with the likes of Cattermole and Andy bloody Carroll More fool you all.

The current England Under-21 squad is desperately short on ability, Rodwell and Wilshere the only ones to really convince that they've got something close to good enough, and both are still a pretty long way off. But if you're looking for Mancienne, Muamba, Gosling, Delph, Moses, Noble, Delfouneso to be making anywhere near the impact of the players they're replacing in the next two years at least, you're having a laugh.

[mafu_6]

Dear lord, where to start?

I have no idea what point you are making with your first paragraph. Rooney has performed well in big games before, so it's hardly as simple as him not being able to handle the pressure.

Klose played 38 times last season and scored 6 goals.

Right, so you're judging who should be in the England team based on a computer game. You do realise real life is a little different?

I'm saying 2 or 3 players wouldn't be exceptional because they aren't yet good enough and don't have enough experience of playing competitive football, let alone international football. This isn't "big public opinion" like you claim Hargreaves was. The opinion on Hargreaves was from people who didn't follow his career in Germany and only saw him play for England when he played out of position at right back and right midfield, once he moved to his correct position he excelled. That surprised no-one who had seen him play for Bayern.

We need to blood some players, but we need to blood the right players and we need to do it gradually. Just selecting half decent Premier League players based on the single fact that they're under 25 will not help. What you do in these situations is make sure you give them the best chance possible to succeed, so you play them alongside players with experience and in their normal positions, otherwise it may as well just be an u21 international or a B team match.

OK Wayne Rooney plays well in some big games i agree especially this season but the CL final of 2008/09 season and 2007/08 season Massive games and did he perform of what we no he can? Since Euro 2004 on the big stay Internationally Rooney has ALSO failed to perform.....

and also OK it might seem that my judgement is from a computer game but if your read what i said i also said the Media and in all honesty they have to get it from somewhere .... FM is also quite realistic when it comes to ability of some general players alot of time and effort it put into researching players with most probably some inside help from scouts on judging players potentials. Michael Owen in France 98 Had hardly any experience at this level and his was thrown into a World Cup Quater Final aganist Argentina where as this is only a Friendly.... and also the Neville Brothers Butt Beckham Scholes where thrown straight into the Premeir League for Man Utd and it didnt do them any harm...

I agree with you on that the people that didn't follow Hargreaves career in his Germany and playing him in his correct position helped him excel.

I also surprisingly agree with you on that fact that we need to blood are youngsters along more experienced internationals but the point i am trying to make is its a friendly game, maybe u should keep an experienced player in the middle of defence and midfield to help guide them but it wouldnt do any harm in playing more than a few of are youngsters in a friendly game. I concede to playing the whole lot of them but then it might help on the future, then again it might not.

Also when i was talking about Klose, yes he has played 38 Games this season 25 in the league out of 34, 5 in the DFB-Pokal out of 6 and 8 games in the CL out of 13 but do u no how many of those were starts?

[brett.spurs]

But if you're looking for Mancienne, Muamba, Gosling, Delph, Moses, Noble, Delfouneso to be making anywhere near the impact of the players they're replacing in the next two years at least, you're having a laugh.

No one has suggested those players though?

[Philip Rolfe]

I've seen the occasional mention of a couple of them along with smatterings of people just claiming "get the Under-21s in there" and the like. Not especially limited to this thread.

[Nikos]

and also OK it might seem that my judgement is from a computer game but if your read what i said i also said the Media and in all honesty they have to get it from somewhere .... FM is also quite realistic when it comes to ability of some general players alot of time and effort it put into researching players with most probably some inside help from scouts on judging players potentials. Michael Owen in France 98 Had hardly any experience at this level and his was thrown into a World Cup Quater Final aganist Argentina where as this is only a Friendly.... and also the Neville Brothers Butt Beckham Scholes where thrown straight into the Premeir League for Man Utd and it didnt do them any harm...

The difference is that Owen was clearly good enough based on his Premier League appearances and Man Utd had a very good group of players. They are on a completely different level to the players you suggested.

[mafu_6]

Dear lord, where to start?

I have no idea what point you are making with your first paragraph. Rooney has performed well in big games before, so it's hardly as simple as him not being able to handle the pressure.

Klose played 38 times last season and scored 6 goals.

Right, so you're judging who should be in the England team based on a computer game. You do realise real life is a little different?

I'm saying 2 or 3 players wouldn't be exceptional because they aren't yet good enough and don't have enough experience of playing competitive football, let alone international football. This isn't "big public opinion" like you claim Hargreaves was. The opinion on Hargreaves was from people who didn't follow his career in Germany and only saw him play for England when he played out of position at right back and right midfield, once he moved to his correct position he excelled. That surprised no-one who had seen him play for Bayern.

We need to blood some players, but we need to blood the right players and we need to do it gradually. Just selecting half decent Premier League players based on the single fact that they're under 25 will not help. What you do in these situations is make sure you give them the best chance possible to succeed, so you play them alongside players with experience and in their normal positions, otherwise it may as well just be an u21 international or a B team match.

The difference is that Owen was clearly good enough based on his Premier League appearances and Man Utd had a very good group of players. They are on a completely different level to the players you suggested.

Only time will tell ...

[ericcantona7]

So all the other managers Sven, ginger Steve, Capello, Houliier etc are all poor know nothings but MArtin O'Neil gets away with it because in your head he would admit to regretting signing him?

Someone take the spade away from this lad.

just think of all the decent managers who never touched him with a barge pole.

Sven picked Ricketts and Jeffers.

Houllier bought Traore and Sean Dundee.

Capello picked Upson and Green.

All managers make mistakes, even some of the good ones.

[Confused Clarity]

Sean Dundee. I'd eliminated him from my memory.

[josh_b]

that is such absolute rubbish.

We cannot include those players. It really ****es me off when people think that the likes of Gibbs and Sturridge should play. Neither of them will ever be good enough so what on earth is the point?

Those two have about 100 times more chance of playing for England than Andy Carroll. Carroll is a terrible player. Gibbs will be second choice England left back by the end of the season imo. Bridge won't play as long as Terry is playing and I highly doubt Baines will ever be called up again after he was called out by the entire squad and Capello as a massive cry baby bitch.

Continuing to chuckle at people looking to get rid of perfectly capable footballers and replacing them with the likes of Cattermole and Andy bloody Carroll More fool you all.

I dislike Cattermole a lot, but he has the potential to be a great midfield destroyer, in the vein of Mascherano, which is definitely something England need.

[Sheer Class]

Hart

Johnson

Richards

Shawcross

Gibbs

Rodwell

Milner

Huddlestone

Wilshire

Rooney

Walcott

[Confused Clarity]

Those two have about 100 times more chance of playing for England than Andy Carroll. Carroll is a terrible player. Gibbs will be second choice England left back by the end of the season imo. Bridge won't play as long as Terry is playing and I highly doubt Baines will ever be called up again after he was called out by the entire squad and Capello as a massive cry baby bitch.

I dislike Cattermole a lot, but he has the potential to be a great midfield destroyer, in the vein of Mascherano, which is definitely something England need.

Whats that about Baines?

[josh_b]

The reason he wasn't selected for the world cup squad is because he got homesick and moaned loads about it within the camp, and got labelled "not a good tourist" by the squad.

[Michael F]

Because Carroll is a **** player?

He is still raw but could be a decent player, he has a decent first touch, he can put in a decent cross, good in the air & can finish. He has been first team regular this season so he gaining the experience, its a bit early to write him off Greg.

He needs to have a decent season in the PL to be considered as a possibility

[Nikos]

just think of all the decent managers who never touched him with a barge pole.

Sven picked Ricketts and Jeffers.

Houllier bought Traore and Sean Dundee.

Capello picked Upson and Green.

All managers make mistakes, even some of the good ones.

To be fair to Sven, I don't think you can argue with the selection of Franny Jeffers. He played 45 minutes and scored a goal.

[Smallen]

Those two have about 100 times more chance of playing for England than Andy Carroll. Carroll is a terrible player.

I'm sorry but that is just laughable ffs . How many games have you actually seen him play?

I can make judgements from a couple of games too if you'd like. Keiran Gibbs is bollocks and not good enough to even play in the prem, never mind the English national team from what I've seen of him

[Powlay]

just think of all the decent managers who never touched him with a barge pole.

Sven picked Ricketts and Jeffers.

Houllier bought Traore and Sean Dundee.

Capello picked Upson and Green.

All managers make mistakes, even some of the good ones.

But managers have consistantly at international level made the same mistake of picking Heskey?

But managers have consistantly at the top club level made the mistake of signing Heskey and playing him for their sides?

Sven clearly pushed into playing Ricketts by Ginger Steve who signed him for Boro

the difference between those mentioned and Heskey is he is always picked, he is always in the PL he is always getting games. Those unsolid signings mentioned were not bought again and again and again at top level.

I dislike Cattermole a lot, but he has the potential to be a great midfield destroyer, in the vein of Mascherano, which is definitely something England need.

Clattermole was championed by Phil (boro) and myself some years back now as a future England international is he could learn to control the anger and stop passing to the wrong team.

He has a uncanny knack of being in the right place at the right time to break things up, only thing is he used to then pass it back to the popposition side

[bolton1987]

You could say the same about Muamba as you did about Cattermole to be fair, and he's probably more 'athletic' than Cattermole

[Powlay]

he doesnt destroy players like Clattermole does though, ask Didier Digard.

[bolton1987]

He doesn't need to?

[josh_b]

I'm sorry but that is just laughable ffs . How many games have you actually seen him play?

I can make judgements from a couple of games too if you'd like. Keiran Gibbs is bollocks and not good enough to even play in the prem, never mind the English national team from what I've seen of him

Saw a fair bit of him last season and looks like any old championship clogger. Not England standard now or ever.

Gibbs on the other hand has been performing well for a Champions League team (bar that Wigan game and a slip against United) and more and more Arsenal fans are wanting Gael Clichy to be dropped for him.

[josh_b]

Never been that impressed by Muamba tbh. Never really stood out massively (apart from size-wise ofc) at Arsenal. Seems a solid prem player. Might make a few squads through injury.

[Jayoel]

something like that. Rooney on the left but able to switch with Gerrard,

Upfront not really sure, Defoe in but could be crouch or someone new,

[josh_b]

Thank christ the nearest you'll get to managing England is FM. Rooney on the left and Defoe up front on his own

[cms186]

If he could be talked into it I still think he's one of the best options we have.

No he really isnt, no no no no no no no.

I'm assuming you haven't seen much of him. He's got very good touch and technique, is fantastic in the air and he can finish.

oh god, so because hes had one slightly above average season playing against Championship level defences with 2 ( ok, only 1 for half the season ) very good championship level wingers putting in good service for him, Carroll is the new messiah for england? i despair. Carroll is not the answer, sure hes a big lump, and hes decent in the air but the rest of what you said is rubbish, put him up against a decent defender and he is painfully average, Wes Morgan and Kelvin Wilson had him in their back pockets both games Forest played against Newcastle last season, Shola Ameoni was better than him when he came on for Carroll at St James's Park, that says it all

Unless Carroll makes significant improvements in most areas of his game, he will not and should not be anywhere near the england set up

[englandmanager]

Thank christ the nearest you'll get to managing England is FM. Rooney on the left and Defoe up front on his own

jolean lescott and a near oap david beckham

can't see what influence beckham would have in an england team trying to be the best in europe in 2 years time wouldn't he be close to 40?

[Jayoel]

rooney played the left before and even if heres not scoreing he still needed in the team the left seems to be the problem and have rooney start on left but switch with Gerrard when needed during the game.

Beckham could play this year and maybe some of next but no I would not have him for europe

[cms186]

can't see what influence beckham would have in an england team trying to be the best in europe in 2 years time wouldn't he be close to 40?

could we lobby fifa to introduce a set piece substitution so we can chuck him on for corners and free kicks and then take him off again?

[PluckaDuck]

Beckham is still class. Unlike most England wingers, he can cross a ball.

[Razzler]

Let's see what Carroll can do this season, how he looks against the best sides, that's generally how you measure these players. I forgot about Jenas, never been a fan but where the hell is he? Will he play enough for Spurs. The likes of Mancienne are far from finished and I remain unconvinced he'll 'make it' at the top level as looks shaky as hell when I see him play. He needs to play and play though, keep him in the U21s though.

You rarely get a massive batch of U21 players coming through, I'd settle for 3 or 4 playing 1st team football and 2 becoming mainstays of the England team. You could argue that Milner and Walcott have done that, erm, without the mainstay bit but you know, up there.

Wonder if these successful Youth players at U17 will make it through to U19 and U21 level in the coming seasons?

[skybluedave]

Beckham is still class. Unlike most England wingers, he can cross a ball.

No he's not. Did you see him at Milan this year? Awful. But he can still cross a ball. About it.

[SJ234]

For those who are picking Micah Richards, he told Viera that he wanted to be in the England team only for Viera to ask how he expected to do that when he was last on the training pitch and the first off it (I think that is right,it is from the Sunday times so can't check). Shows where his problems start

[ericcantona7]

But managers have consistantly at international level made the same mistake of picking Heskey?

But managers have consistantly at the top club level made the mistake of signing Heskey and playing him for their sides?

Sven clearly pushed into playing Ricketts by Ginger Steve who signed him for Boro

the difference between those mentioned and Heskey is he is always picked, he is always in the PL he is always getting games. Those unsolid signings mentioned were not bought again and again and again at top level.

and he is always sold off at one point or another. Whenever Heskey has made the step up to a top 6 team (well the two times), he's at some point been not considered up to it and benched and then sold at Liverpool and probably will be at Villa before long. That's about his level, very good player for the likes of mid table sides such as Leicester and Wigan, and first team player at Birmingham, bench/squad player for teams the level above that like Liverpool and Villa, in that respect he's probably level with the likes of Zamora, Bent, C.Cole, who are all young and still improving and could step up another level, and a level behind the likes of Defoe and Crouch who are first team players for top 6 sides (less so Crouch I suppose who is rotated a little, but he's certainly more of a fixture than Heskey is in Villa's side). Of course what then comes into play is form, and ability to work well within the system, Heskey certainly didn't have the first going into the world cup, the second he clearly had during the qualifiiers, but perhaps the system wasn't good enough at this level, or perhaps it didn't work without Rooney (and others) in form, or perhaps other teams got wise to it, either way whilst Heskey did what Heskey does fine, what Heskey does wasn't adaptable enough for him to have a major positive influence on the games at the world cup. Not that I'm blaming Heskey, it's a lack of flexibility from the manager.

[Bigwig]

Might see what odds I can get for Carroll getting capped this season. I think he stands a good chance of getting capped, even if not for the right reasons.

I’m not his biggest fan, but I don’t think he’s done enough to earn some of the praise or criticism levelled at him.

[Barry Cartman]

For those who are picking Micah Richards, he told Viera that he wanted to be in the England team only for Viera to ask how he expected to do that when he was last on the training pitch and the first off it (I think that is right,it is from the Sunday times so can't check). Shows where his problems start

I think his problems started when we all realised he can't play football and unless theres something to chase and kick he's pretty useless

[aggressive minor]

For me we need to start building for 2014 so big changes need to come in

Foster

Naughton

Shawcross

Cahill

Baines

Lennon

Milner

Wilshere

Johnson

Welbeck

Rooney

Welbeck? Naughton? Forster (over Hart)?

If you mean for the season coming up, how can you justify that?

[Bigwig]

I wouldn’t want to see wholesale changes. It can be quite hard to judge how good someone is when they’re thrown into a side full of other hopefuls.

It’s one of my main gripes about how we use friendlies. They should be used to keep the main core of the side while replacing 2-3 players to see how they do, but when you change silly numbers it becomes hard to tell whether someone just isn’t good enough or whether they simply don’t impress because of the standard of teammates.

Take Andy Johnson as an example. Now I’m not for one minute suggesting he could have been England’s first choice striker, but he had a much better chance of impressing when he had the likes of Beckham, Gerrard and Scholes providing service to him than Jenas, Barry and Dyer.

Joe Hart is someone who could potentially be our goalkeeper for years to come, but stick him in front of a ‘weak’ back four and you risk ruining his international career before it gets started. Likewise, Shawcross might thrive in a back four with Terry, Cole and Johnson, but he might look awful alongside Naughton, Cahill and Baines.

[aggressive minor]

Has Shawcross got any decent pace? Might be one to look at if so. We really need some legs at the back.

[skybluedave]

Then why do you still have Rooney

[aggressive minor]

Sorry typo, meant Foster. I would like to hear your argument on why Foster should play instead of Hart? Despite being much younger, Hart's the Premiership regular impressing everyone.

Naughton and Wellbeck were both on loan in the Championship, how can you suddenly chuck them into international football? At least say players like Agbonlahor instead, who actually has experience in the top flight.

[brett.spurs]

He's a Utd fan I think.

[aggressive minor]

Yeah but how the hell do you justify Wellbeck and Naughton? Players need a full season in a top flight before getting in the team. They would be exposed by any decent players at international level. Imagine Naughton against players like Robben in an international? What hope would he have, if he hasn't had the chance to hone his skills against players like Nani and Kalou in the Premiership?

Foster's not a Premiership regular, he doesn't look like budging VDS anytime soon. Any one can see that Hart is the better option, even going back to Paul Robinson.

[aggressive minor]

You're not the only one saying it, which is the worrying thing. Look at all the German players promoted from the U21's, they've all had a decent amount of first team football in the top flight.

[aggressive minor]

You bloody Tit, Foster won't budge VDS because he has signed for Birmingham. I justify Welbeck on potential and I think this season will be his first full season out on loan in the premiership. I also expect Naughton to start to move towards the Spurs lineup. Right back is a concerning area, I wouldn't want to rely on Johnson for too much longer.

Whooops, totally forgot about Foster. Sorry about that. Even so, Hart is younger and a lot more talented, has a nice confidence about him that you need as a keeper. Much better prospect than Foster for me.

I agree that I don't want Johnson, he's useless, but we really have no one else? Naughton's not even close to our team, he has to get ahead of Corluka and Kaboul, good luck to him. But whats Wellbeck done? Nothing. When he has done something worthy in the premiership, then you can start mentioning his name.

Its all ifs and buts. IF Wellbeck and Naughton and Foster all performed well in the league and you mentioned them, I wouldn't question you.

[Crazy_T]

welbeck will never play for england

[aggressive minor]

I hope so, but until he does, keep his name away from the England team.

[skybluedave]

Germany introduced 6 members of their U21 squad into their WC squad, some were due to injuries. Ozil the clear stand out in terms of talent. Muller too but he wasn't in the U21's. They are a good combination between experience (Lahm, Klose, Schweinsteiger, Friedrich etc). That's what we should be trying to do not stick in a bunch of teens ffs. Some players have failed and need to moved on but we still have some talented players who should stick around and continue to be involved.