Barnzy Posted June 24, 2010 Share Posted June 24, 2010 Yep prob the Argies after. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
brett.spurs Posted June 24, 2010 Share Posted June 24, 2010 Speak coherently please. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kill Rock Stars Posted June 24, 2010 Share Posted June 24, 2010 The two brightest players yesterday were Milner and JCole. joe cole?! did nothing Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tcoleman1 Posted June 24, 2010 Share Posted June 24, 2010 The two brightest for me were Defoe and milner (Defoe because he is a much bigger goal threat than Heskey). And I will be surprised to see milner dumped after that display. I cant argue with you on Lampard though. He doesnt add anything special to the team. When a country has two good players in one position sometimes they have to drop one of them if they cant play well together or it unbalances the team. Brazil dumped Alves and Spain dumped Fabregas. Lampard should be dumped if he continues to underperform Luckily for Gerrard he's the captain, played exactly the same as Lampard and Barry was the worst out of the 3 yesterday. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barnzy Posted June 24, 2010 Share Posted June 24, 2010 Speak coherently please. Talking to me? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ham_aka_stam Posted June 24, 2010 Share Posted June 24, 2010 We're really going to need a 5 man midfield against Germany (3 centrally anyway, and protection for Cole and Johnson on the flanks). I suppose this could be done with the personnel we had on against Slovenia in various ways, but with Rooney being a doubt due to his injury, at least one change is likely. I can't see Defoe playing up front on his own, and neither Crouch nor Heskey suit the lone striker role, so I'm not sure how we'll do it if Rooney can't start. Defoe would need heavy support behind him, and Crouch/Heskey would need players running past him, which is never our strong point. Perhaps it'll be Heskey in the middle with Gerrard and Milner either side of him, but who knows what Capello has planned. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
skybluedave Posted June 24, 2010 Share Posted June 24, 2010 Yeah agree. Could easily get out numbered in midfield. Both Schweinsteiger and Khedira really like to break forward and get in the box. Really like them 2. The don't sit too deep and like to get invovled around the box. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ruud van Nistelrooy Posted June 24, 2010 Share Posted June 24, 2010 Both Lampard and Gerrard played pretty well I thought. Barry was pretty poor, but then he's rarely anything above distinctly average. If Rooney's injured we would have to play 4-4-2, don't have anyone else capable of playing up there on their own. Think we'll be playing 4-4-2 anyway, can't see Capello changing it after a good performance. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
GerdMuller Posted June 24, 2010 Share Posted June 24, 2010 Yeah we do seem to perform better against the better teams so I'm not too worried we'll get destroyed by Germany. Very 50-50 that game, wouldn't be surprised to see it go to penalties Hopefully we will play the same team that played vs Slovenia against Germany. Love it when people say that. I'd love for someone to actually back that up with some stats because all I remember is we scrape through to this round in most competitions and then struggle and get knocked out as soon as we actually play a decent team. Didn't we scrape pass Ecuador and Denmark last time and as soon as we played anyone decent we got beat? Good point , tbh i cant remember England beating a major team in big match since 1966. They must have but as i said i cant remember and it isnt a very good sign as i am dedicated follower of football since WC 1990 at least. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
skybluedave Posted June 24, 2010 Share Posted June 24, 2010 We haven't really. Argentina in 02 about as big as it gets but that was just group stage. France in 82. And that is it really. We are due a win sooner or later though.... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
skybluedave Posted June 24, 2010 Share Posted June 24, 2010 Oh and Holland and Spain in Euro 96 I guess. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
skybluedave Posted June 24, 2010 Share Posted June 24, 2010 And of course Germany in Euro 2000 but considering we both went out, it didn't really mean much. In terms of knockout rounds we've been p*ss poor. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
GG17 Posted June 24, 2010 Share Posted June 24, 2010 Tbf, Gills pointed out a few instances were we raised our game. However we still more often than not seem to get beat. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
GillsMan Posted June 24, 2010 Share Posted June 24, 2010 One thing I will say about this England team, though, is they don't concede too many goals. Didn't concede many in qualifying, only conceded in one game in WC2006, only conceded one goal so far. Yes, you could make the argument that we haven't played so many strong sides, but Italy, Spain, Brazil and Germany have all conceded against relatively smaller sides. I fancy it to be a tight game on Sunday. Should be an interesting watch for sure. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bigwig Posted June 24, 2010 Share Posted June 24, 2010 Cole was pretty poor when he came on. All that talk about him unlocking defences and his passes were either reaching the opposition or running through to the goalkeeper / out for a goal kick. Wouldn’t say Spain dumped Fabregas either as I don’t think he’s ever been first choice in their midfield. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woodmansee Posted June 24, 2010 Share Posted June 24, 2010 The defense has looked good, even without Rio. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deltaroad Posted June 24, 2010 Share Posted June 24, 2010 We haven't conceded goals yes but our defence is shabby to say the least. None of our keepers have had major shots to save. Most shots have been off target really. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
elgreenio Posted June 24, 2010 Share Posted June 24, 2010 could be worse, we could be Italy at this point in time, same position us we were heading into the last game, but no reaction so far. I for one think we'll sneak past the Germans, as long as Barry raises his game, his passing has been not at his best. Will be interesting to see if Capello how we plan to stop Lahm bursting forward, best full back in the world imo Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ham_aka_stam Posted June 24, 2010 Share Posted June 24, 2010 Cole was pretty poor when he came on. All that talk about him unlocking defences and his passes were either reaching the opposition or running through to the goalkeeper / out for a goal kick. I think Cole has his uses. To hold the ball up when we're doing the usual "defend deep, pump it long" lead-holding technique though, is not the time to use him. He is much more useful when it is the opposition who are sitting deep and we are having to play through them. Heskey would have been a better replacement for Rooney. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mag man Posted June 24, 2010 Share Posted June 24, 2010 could be worse, we could be Italy at this point in time, same position us we were heading into the last game, but no reaction so far. I for one think we'll sneak past the Germans, as long as Barry raises his game, his passing has been not at his best. Will be interesting to see if Capello how we plan to stop Lahm bursting forward, best full back in the world imo I am glad Lahm is going to come up against Ashley Cole as I would not like to see Glen Johnson trying to defend against him. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crazy_T Posted June 24, 2010 Share Posted June 24, 2010 Yeah agree. Could easily get out numbered in midfield. Both Schweinsteiger and Khedira really like to break forward and get in the box. Really like them 2. The don't sit too deep and like to get invovled around the box. schweinsteiger hardly moves, it's khedira who goes forward. honestly the man who is going to win the game for germany is mesut özil, if barry and lampard aren't on top of him we don't have much chance. he'll win the game on his own if we don't stop him. we were ok yesterday, and it wasn't a "very good" performance at all. and we aren't going far with rooney playing like this. nothing changes, we still need to play 4-1-4-1/4-2-3-1 (especially against germany) and the only thing i've learned is that milner needs to play. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bigwig Posted June 24, 2010 Share Posted June 24, 2010 I think Cole has his uses. To hold the ball up when we're doing the usual "defend deep, pump it long" lead-holding technique though, is not the time to use him. He is much more useful when it is the opposition who are sitting deep and we are having to play through them. Heskey would have been a better replacement for Rooney. I’m not knocking Cole as I rate him as a player, or at least I did. After spending so long out with injuries and not seeing too much of him when he returned to fitness, he has that element of uncertainty around him. The way people were going on about his exclusion you’d think he’s just come off the back of an amazing season and was a sure thing. It’s a strange football phenomenon where players suddenly become a hell of a lot better when they’re not playing. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woodmansee Posted June 24, 2010 Share Posted June 24, 2010 We can't play with one striker (rooney) that is not scoring. I'm pretty sure he will start with Rooney and Defoe and so he should. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mag man Posted June 24, 2010 Share Posted June 24, 2010 I’m not knocking Cole as I rate him as a player, or at least I did. After spending so long out with injuries and not seeing too much of him when he returned to fitness, he has that element of uncertainty around him.The way people were going on about his exclusion you’d think he’s just come off the back of an amazing season and was a sure thing. It’s a strange football phenomenon where players suddenly become a hell of a lot better when they’re not playing. He has had a terrible season and actually played a lot of games yet both England and Chelsea fans want to see him play and are under the impression he isnt yet fit or he hasnt played that much. I cant believe my Joe Cole dislike is so high at the moment Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ham_aka_stam Posted June 24, 2010 Share Posted June 24, 2010 We can't play with one striker (rooney) that is not scoring. I'm pretty sure he will start with Rooney and Defoe and so he should. Then our midfield two will have to be very clever to ensure Ozil is covered in Germany's midfield three. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crazy_T Posted June 24, 2010 Share Posted June 24, 2010 We can't play with one striker (rooney) that is not scoring. I'm pretty sure he will start with Rooney and Defoe and so he should. well he needs to ****ing wake up. it's wayne rooney. so yes we can and we need to. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woodmansee Posted June 24, 2010 Share Posted June 24, 2010 We need to play to win, not draw or lose. We need two strikers that can score. Forget this silly 451 crap. Sure Ozil is good, so is Gerrard and Lampard. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crazy_T Posted June 24, 2010 Share Posted June 24, 2010 um, in playing that way we are playing to win. why would we play to draw or lose? I think you need to watch germany again, if özil has space we are in trouble. neither lampard or gerrard are on the same creative level as him for his country. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cinnabon09 Posted June 24, 2010 Share Posted June 24, 2010 We need to play to win, not draw or lose. We need two strikers that can score. Forget this silly 451 crap.Sure Ozil is good, so is Gerrard and Lampard. none of them has performed at his level in this world cup though Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woodmansee Posted June 24, 2010 Share Posted June 24, 2010 Because if Rooney isn't scoring or if hes marked out the game, the chance of us getting a goal is very slim. We need another natural goal scorer. Lampard is but hes not really scoring for England atm. Ozil might be more creative thats what Barry is for. Lampard and Gerrard have attributes he doesn't have. At the end of the day, Capello has played 442 every game, and I don't think he is going to change now. So its pointless. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woodmansee Posted June 24, 2010 Share Posted June 24, 2010 none of them has performed at his level in this world cup though Germany have lost a game we haven't. Lets not overrate Germany to soon. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crazy_T Posted June 24, 2010 Share Posted June 24, 2010 they may have lost a game, but we've never looked like scoring in the way that they do. whatever, barry needs to play well and rooney needs to start doing something or we're going out. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woodmansee Posted June 24, 2010 Share Posted June 24, 2010 The good thing is Rooney was looking more like his old self last game. He just needs to start scoring. I can't see Capello changing anything with the team that started yesterday, except Upson, maybe. Can you? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crazy_T Posted June 24, 2010 Share Posted June 24, 2010 probably not, and that's why I think we'll lose. though i'd rather upson than carragher and milner has to play now. rooney doesn't look fit to me. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tcoleman1 Posted June 24, 2010 Share Posted June 24, 2010 I have to say I thought we played worse when Rooney came off, fit or not. Cole behind Defoe wasn't working as we had no muscle up front whatsoever. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
aggressive minor Posted June 24, 2010 Author Share Posted June 24, 2010 I have to say I thought we played worse when Rooney came off, fit or not. Cole behind Defoe wasn't working as we had no muscle up front whatsoever. Agreed. I don't want Heskey- I think he is useful for 10-15mins here like he was yesterday. Either Gerrard behind Defoe, or Crouch and Defoe. Would be some journey for the Crouch and Defoe partnership- Pompy to Spurs to WC match against Germany within 18months. (if Rooney can't play of course) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ham_aka_stam Posted June 24, 2010 Share Posted June 24, 2010 We need to play to win, not draw or lose. We need two strikers that can score. Forget this silly 451 crap.Sure Ozil is good, so is Gerrard and Lampard. Wow. 451 = playing to lose? Do Utd play to lose? Barca (433 is more or less a 451)? Or any of the other countless, successful teams who play a variation on the 451? If we play a 442 and give Ozil space between the defence and the MF, we will be playing to lose. You say "that's what Barry is for" but that leaves Lampard marking 2 CMs. This game's going to be tough enough, but it's going to be even tougher having 2 against three in the middle of the park. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woodmansee Posted June 24, 2010 Share Posted June 24, 2010 Using Man United or Barca are not good examples. 433 is good but, you we need at least two strikers, or natural goal scorers up front. It's not really a case of if we play 442, I'm pretty sure Capello is going to. I don't fear Ozil, and think they should fear Gerrard, and Lampard. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
el sid Posted June 24, 2010 Share Posted June 24, 2010 What makes you think they don't? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woodmansee Posted June 24, 2010 Share Posted June 24, 2010 It's all good then. Barry and our defense should be enough to deal with Ozil, or if we keep the ball so he doesn't see it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crazy_T Posted June 24, 2010 Share Posted June 24, 2010 I think you need to start showing mr özil some respect. who's going to fear lampard (a guy who won't attack or do anything in an england shirt) and gerrard (a guy who is pretty ineffective on the left) if anyone needs fearing for england it's rooney. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woodmansee Posted June 24, 2010 Share Posted June 24, 2010 Out of the three players given the choice for this world cup only, Ozil would be my last pick over Lampard and Gerrard. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Suge Posted June 24, 2010 Share Posted June 24, 2010 I fear Ozil. He has been their best player by a country mile. I think Gerrard is better but Ozil can unlock a team with ease. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Razzler Posted June 24, 2010 Share Posted June 24, 2010 Saw a stat in Times, I think that Germany attack on their right side 3 times more than their left Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
el sid Posted June 24, 2010 Share Posted June 24, 2010 Saw a stat in Times, I think that Germany attack on their right side 3 times more than their left No doubt due to a certain Phillip Lahm. Coupled with the fact that a centre back played at left back in the first two games and a right back played there in their last game Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woodmansee Posted June 24, 2010 Share Posted June 24, 2010 Oh Cole will have him! Lahm is very good but hes a bit slow. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Razzler Posted June 24, 2010 Share Posted June 24, 2010 Germany are busy blowing smoke up Rooney's arse "we fear him / he hasn't fired yet and he will soon" ... they maybe think he didn't do well under pressure so why not add more pressure. Germany are very tidy indeed but they don't have the ominous air they used to have, then again we don't have Lineker! Ozil's a top talent, their forwards don't strike fear right now but Rooney isn't terrifying anyone atm either tbf, they all know where the net is though and that includes Rooney. Hopefully we won't concede those weak free kicks in the last 1/3. Did I hear that King may be back? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ham_aka_stam Posted June 24, 2010 Share Posted June 24, 2010 What is dangerous about Ozil is not neccessarily who he is, but where he plays. If we play our normal 442, we'll have trouble from him. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crazy_T Posted June 24, 2010 Share Posted June 24, 2010 It's all good then. Barry and our defense should be enough to deal with Ozil, or if we keep the ball so he doesn't see it. I don't think it's that simple mate. england keeping the ball when has this ever happened. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Razzler Posted June 24, 2010 Share Posted June 24, 2010 I don't think we have utilised Ashley Cole as much as we could be so far, been quite blunt when I thought he could really be a difference maker down the left. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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