The Official English National Football Team Thread

[Leppard]

So is this true: if England get past Germany, then it's likely to be Argentina and then Spain and then Brazil?

[Razzler]

http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/blog/2010/jun/23/england-slovenia-world-cup-survival

I quite like this, especially the 'typically English performance, balancing hope and blind panic in equal measure' pretty much sums up our tournament matches

[Razzler]

So is this true: if England get past Germany, then it's likely to be Argentina and then Spain and then Brazil?

Semi Finals could be any number of sides but suffice to say if we get past Germany it's likely to be the Argies .. if we found ourselves past that then it's gonna be a decent team cause that's probably the harder side of the draw.

We've blown the 'easy' path already

[skybluedave]

Mexico aren't no mugs. And will be up for revenge. I'm still not buying the Argentina hype, that had a pretty p*ss poor group. Not really been tested yet.

[Low_Flying_Seagull]

Upson does scare me a bit. He did well but at times you can just imagine him tripping over the ball under a little bit of pressure. I can see Carragher coming back in.

I am so pumped for Sunday now. Literally never looked forward to a Football match as much as this.

please please please pleeeeeeease no more carragher this tournament. Or ever again for that matter.

[Razzler]

Mexico aren't no mugs. And will be up for revenge. I'm still not buying the Argentina hype, that had a pretty p*ss poor group. Not really been tested yet.

I think everyone can be 'got at' here, Germany aren't the defensive machine they used to be and don't have the fearsome/iconic players of old and Argies I interested in seeing them come up against a tactical manager and also feel you can create against them ... saying that, we've hardly been water tight ourselves and still gave the ball away a bit, probably from nerves.

Giving it back to Slovenia is one thing but Krauts and Argies is another :/

[GillsMan]

Upson had a great game once he got over his nervy start. He should definitely start alongside Terry against the Germans. Wasn't it him and Terry who scored the goals when England beat them at their place 2-1 last year or something?

[skybluedave]

Yes, we have quite a decent record against Germany recently. Last 5 games, 3 wins, 1 draw and 1 loss. Though this is the WC and this is the Germans.

[Barnzy]

Yeah deffo prefer Upson over JC judging from that performance.

[GillsMan]

Love it when people say that. I'd love for someone to actually back that up with some stats because all I remember is we scrape through to this round in most competitions and then struggle and get knocked out as soon as we actually play a decent team. Didn't we scrape pass Ecuador and Denmark last time and as soon as we played anyone decent we got beat?

In qualifying, England struggled against Andorra, but humped Croatia home and away. In their friendlies they played very well against Holland and Germany, but didn't look up for it against Slovenia or Trinidad & Tobago (and were outclassed by Spain and Brazil in fairness).

In World Cup 2006 England's best performance was against Portugal, by some distance, having faced relative mediocracy in Paraguay, T&T, Sweden and Ecuador. England raised their game against the bigger nation (obv not helped by Rooney's sending off).

Germany 5-1?

It's obvious that England's arrogant footballers seem to struggle to motivate themselves against smaller nations, but do tend to turn in much better performances against bigger teams, even though they are sometimes/often outclassed by these bigger nations.

[skybluedave]

I really want to see a picture of JT throwing his head at that knee height Slovenian shot

[Razzler]

http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/multimedia/archive/00026/ttstalkingtactics_26645a.pdf

Interesting, highlights Gerrard's touches in this game and Algeria and also Defoe attempted 4 passes in the whole game, also the free kicks we conceded in our own half, some were a bit ropey but caused us problems

[Razzler]

I really want to see a picture of JT throwing his head at that knee height Slovenian shot

http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/sport/football/international/article2571210.ece

there you go, have to register for the Times these days though but they're good

[ham_aka_stam]

No idea if you'll be able to see this, but worth a try.

[skybluedave]

http://www.breakingglobalnews.com/john-terry-diving-heade/12211396

Found a video. What a hero

[Woodmansee]

There was not many good passes to Defoe except for the awesome crosses from Milnar. Upson has the same pass rate as Terry. He might have played one or two bad balls (I remember one) but he played some very good balls.

As for the England performance some people think because we didn't score five goals we played bad.

[Manunited_fan]

I think everyone can be 'got at' here, Germany aren't the defensive machine they used to be and don't have the fearsome/iconic players of old and Argies I interested in seeing them come up against a tactical manager and also feel you can create against them ... saying that, we've hardly been water tight ourselves and still gave the ball away a bit, probably from nerves.

Giving it back to Slovenia is one thing but Krauts and Argies is another :/

Yeah definitely, nobody has really put their mark on this tournament. Argentina have a really dodgy defense, Gutierrez at right back and that South Korea goal where Demichelis just got pick pocketed and watched with hands on hips? If teams go out and play against them, the Germans look beatable to. Think its just a case of stopping Messi and Ozil.

As said England step up their performances for bigger teams. I expect a great performance on Sunday and hopefully can look forward to atleast one or two more .

[aggressive minor]

I love the Argentina defence, with Heinze and Jonas. Seriously think Mexico could trouble them, a good team that can pose some problems.

If we got to the semi's who is it likely to be? And what of the other half of the draw?

[GillsMan]

I love the Argentina defence, with Heinze and Jonas. Seriously think Mexico could trouble them, a good team that can pose some problems.

If we got to the semi's who is it likely to be? And what of the other half of the draw?

Spain or Brazil I think.

[jmr]

Love it when people say that. I'd love for someone to actually back that up with some stats because all I remember is we scrape through to this round in most competitions and then struggle and get knocked out as soon as we actually play a decent team. Didn't we scrape pass Ecuador and Denmark last time and as soon as we played anyone decent we got beat?

Just because we didn't get results doesn't mean we didn't perform better. We've always done better vs better teams and been abit underwhelming vs the rubbisher ones. Croatia in qualifying for example, Germany in 2008.

Or what GillsMan said.

[Woodmansee]

I think this world cup has shown us the weaker sides are not useless like teams of the past. Not just defending for a point, but they are capable of wining games against the big teams.

[Razzler]

I know, 'weaker' is one thing but no one is really terrible, could maybe say that Honduras are the least impressive side in this so far so how many 3 point bankers have not come off the way they should so far?

I think anyone will take a 1-0 win these days in tournaments

[Woodmansee]

Yea Hounduras prob has been the least impressive. Not exactly sure how many have failed, but its been a few.

I bet the best team Brazil would have took 1-0 when the lowest ranked team North Korea was holding them back for 70 mins.

[tcoleman1]

Knew Terry wouldn't let anything bother him. Stepped onto that pitch after everything people said about him and for me he was our best player out there yesterday.

[aggressive minor]

Spain or Brazil I think.

Oh great, I thought at least they would be in the other half of the draw. So could be- Germany, Argentina, then Spain/Brazil? All we needed was ONE goal to avoid this.

[skybluedave]

We'd still screw it up on the easy side of draw tbh. Maybe we shouldn't of played keep ball in the corner for the last 5 mins

[brett.spurs]

Oh great, I thought at least they would be in the other half of the draw. So could be- Germany, Argentina, then Spain/Brazil? All we needed was ONE goal to avoid this.

Germany - Argentina - Spain - Brazil/Holland

[Woodmansee]

It couldn't get harder But like SKy said we'd prob screw up the easy way. Not that we won't screw up the hard way but we should go out in a blaze of glory!

[aggressive minor]

Guess we just got to look at it one match at a time. I think we can beat Germany, hopefully that gets the ball rolling.

Look at the French team in 06, taking out all those big teams.

[GillsMan]

Oh great, I thought at least they would be in the other half of the draw. So could be- Germany, Argentina, then Spain/Brazil? All we needed was ONE goal to avoid this.

In fairness, the Yanks deserved to top the group after that game with Slovenia. Justice was done in the end.

[aggressive minor]

And I thought we deserved to beat the Yanks. But hey, at least we qualified.

[Unrealgod]

I can just tell how this tournament is going to head for us. Remember tight rope walking on curbs as a kid? You're never good, shakey the whole way but somehow manage to wobble your way through and fall off at the end. That's us. We'll unconvincinly beat Germany, get given a real test against Mexico/ argentina. Somehow beat Brazil or Spain and the fail epically in the final. I can sees it I tells you!

Seriously now. We played well and its down to Capello to get us to keep our heads up and make sure nobody gets cocky. Germany are a very good team and we are complete underdogs going into this. I expect them to win but do think we have a chance here. From his comments earlier in the tournament I expect Rooney to be pumped for this game and have a performance to match. If he's on fire then we can win. It's all up in the air now and I honestly think either team can win it.

[Woodmansee]

Yea Rooney is due some goals.

[Gassie4]

Barry and Lampard haven't really clicked yet this tournament and I think they were both poor yesterday. I've been quite impressed by the middle of Germany's midfield thus far as well. It's important that those two step it up a notch or two.

[aggressive minor]

Barry hasn't been great. Lampard has done well, he is playing much deeper for us than he does for Chelsea.

[skybluedave]

I thought Lampard was pretty good yesterday. We wont ever see the Chelsea Lampard as we aren't set up like them. But he's a calming influence on the ball, and really makes us tick. He was way off agaisnt Algeria which goes a long way to explain why we struggled.

[Woodmansee]

Yea I thought he played good. He almost unlocked the defense with some killer balls. His passing in general was above average.

[Razzler]

Lampard had that decent chance, keeper had saved and it came out to him, left foot, the kind of shot that would go under the bar for Chelsea but hit it over. Bloody hell we had some decent chances to score a 2nd

[Crilly]

England should squeeze past Germany but they won't get any further.

A 1-0 win over Slovenia and they think they're going to win it. 1 more goal and they'd have avoided germany, argentina, spain/portugal. But instead they have the hardest run possible. Course if you get to the final you deserve to be their but England's midfield is for lack of a better work broken. Capello's insistance to play 4-4-2 with Gerrard and Lampard both on the pitch will be their ultimate downfall, on current form I'd drop Lampard. Ashley Cole is completely neutered and Rooney has no service. The two brightest players yesterday were Milner and JCole. They both won't start the next game. If only Capello saw the value of 4-5-1.

[skybluedave]

Yeah, Lampard and Gerrard in the first half. Defoe right from kick off in the 2nd half, Rooney's one on one. JT's header. We should really of been playing Ghana

[GillsMan]

Yea I thought he played good. He almost unlocked the defense with some killer balls. His passing in general was above average.

Only Rooney and Joe Cole can unlock defences iirc.

[GillsMan]

England should squeeze past Germany but they won't get any further.

A 1-0 win over Slovenia and they think they're going to win it. 1 more goal and they'd have avoided germany, argentina, spain/portugal. But instead they have the hardest run possible. Course if you get to the final you deserve to be their but England's midfield is for lack of a better work broken. Capello's insistance to play 4-4-2 with Gerrard and Lampard both on the pitch will be their ultimate downfall, on current form I'd drop Lampard. Ashley Cole is completely neutered and Rooney has no service. The two brightest players yesterday were Milner and JCole. They both won't start the next game. If only Capello saw the value of 4-5-1.

:confused: Eh? Joe Cole did nothing when he came on. In fairness he was playing higher up than I think he's used to, but he did absolutely nothing.

[skybluedave]

England should squeeze past Germany but they won't get any further.

A 1-0 win over Slovenia and they think they're going to win it. 1 more goal and they'd have avoided germany, argentina, spain/portugal. But instead they have the hardest run possible. Course if you get to the final you deserve to be their but England's midfield is for lack of a better work broken. Capello's insistance to play 4-4-2 with Gerrard and Lampard both on the pitch will be their ultimate downfall, on current form I'd drop Lampard. Ashley Cole is completely neutered and Rooney has no service. The two brightest players yesterday were Milner and JCole. They both won't start the next game. If only Capello saw the value of 4-5-1.

Ashley Cole has hardly been neutered. He's been awesome defending and attacking. Joe Cole was rubbish. Shouldn't be starting. Milner will start the next game. Nobody thinks we are going to win the WC. If we had finished top then maybe people might start getting ahead of themselves, but not with the draw we've been dealt.

[Woodmansee]

Yea was silly for Terry to say that. I think he meant Cole or Rooney are the only ones that can unlock a defense with skill.

Lampard does it with passing, or good technical play.

[mag man]

Joe Cole has been rubbish all season and on form should never have been in the world cup squad. He didnt really do much when he came with limited time and should not be near the starting 11.

[Cinnabon09]

England should squeeze past Germany but they won't get any further.

A 1-0 win over Slovenia and they think they're going to win it. 1 more goal and they'd have avoided germany, argentina, spain/portugal. But instead they have the hardest run possible. Course if you get to the final you deserve to be their but England's midfield is for lack of a better work broken. Capello's insistance to play 4-4-2 with Gerrard and Lampard both on the pitch will be their ultimate downfall, on current form I'd drop Lampard. Ashley Cole is completely neutered and Rooney has no service. The two brightest players yesterday were Milner and JCole. They both won't start the next game. If only Capello saw the value of 4-5-1.

The two brightest for me were Defoe and milner (Defoe because he is a much bigger goal threat than Heskey). And I will be surprised to see milner dumped after that display. I cant argue with you on Lampard though. He doesnt add anything special to the team. When a country has two good players in one position sometimes they have to drop one of them if they cant play well together or it unbalances the team. Brazil dumped Alves and Spain dumped Fabregas. Lampard should be dumped if he continues to underperform

[Woodmansee]

I thought Joe Cole played ok for the short time he was on. If he should be in the squad on form is another matter, but you could say that about a few of the players.

[foolsgold]

Was surprised what happened when Joe Cole came on, as he came on as a sort of striker. Why not have put him on the left and swapped him with Gerrard?

[skybluedave]

He did that in the Japan friendly too I think.

[Deltaroad]

So Germany lads? Our World Cup ends on Sunday? when we play them. If we do win then we got Argentina right?

Mon USA USA USA USA!