The Official English National Football Team Thread

[Woodmansee]

Terry and the defense are prob the only positive thing you can take from the team right now, on the pitch.

[tcoleman1]

Judging from other player's reactions to Terry 'speaking out' they didn't seem overly happy and he was apparently told to not say anything in the meeting with Capello when they watched the Algeria game back ... not sure they're seeing him as a leader there. Be a leader on the pitch though

I can't believe that he is the only player who isn't happy with things Capello is or isn't doing. Why they are telling him not to bring them up with Capello I don't know and further illustrates my point they might feel they can't speak to him or speak out against him in anyway. Yes he shouldn't have said anything to the media about it but tbh he clearly thinks these things need to have been said.

[Woodmansee]

I would be surprised if Terry was on his own, and speak out if he was. The way the team has been playing would also indicate otherwise.

Sounds like to me they stayed up drinking, started speaking the truth, and Terry thought he had to be the man to say something. Thats just my little theory!

[Razzler]

He most probably isn't the only player but he's the only one that has spoken publicly about it. Is he 'doing it for England'? No, it's pointless. Terry himself is still a senior player, speak with Gerrard, Lampard and others and maybe approach the Manager about more activities or relaxing time, talk it out.

Terry coming out publicly has us all wondering 'which players are annoyed, who is on which side' and so on. Achieved nothing.

If he thinks things need to be said he should do as above not inform the nation via the media that things aren't right and I am gonna sort it out, worst thing he could have done. This could have all been handled without any media invovlement at all

[Bigwig]

I think if it wasn’t for injuries to other players you’d see Terry dropped, but as we’re short of good centre halves his place is still guaranteed. Will be interesting to see what happens after the WC and whether Cappello will just drop him from the national side and build up other players.

I’m also wondering whether this might have any effect on Cappello’s squad selection tomorrow. He may have decided to call up Cole anyway but will this give him second thoughts, as it could possibly be seen to be bowing to player / fan / media pressure? I’ve no idea whether Cappello is that stubborn, but he wouldn’t be the first manager who’s been under pressure to play a certain player / formation and just refused to do so because he can’t be seen to being told what to do.

[tcoleman1]

I know, he shouldn't have talked to the media but tbh he has and hopefully we win tomorrow and everyone will forget about, he's learnt his lesson hopefully and it's sorted. Just don't like the thought of having a manager who won't listen to anyone's opinion but himself, but hopefully he does.

Would love to see a nice change in the lineup tomorrow and a formation change but no doubt it will be 4-4-2.

Also bigwig I would like to know who you would have instead of Terry? Ledley King doesn't count as an injury per se as he can hardly last when he is fully fit anyway. I would have Ferdinand and Terry every day of the week, he's better tham Dawson, Upson and Carragher quite easily for me and on top of that he commands the defence with ease. He has vast experience at both international and european leve.

[Woodmansee]

I wonder what his motive was for speaking out.

All I can think is he was trying to redirect some of the fan hate towards Capello. Or that Capello was doing England such a disservice that he felt the need to speak out. Capello not playing J Cole is almost a crime.

[Razzler]

I was discussing this with my mate, in trying to get what he wants he may not get what he wants, he wants Joe Cole in and maybe Capello would have started him, perhaps now he won't to not be seen as bowing to pressure as you say.

Personally I think Capello will do whatever it was he intended to do but whatever that is it raise questions of bowling to pressure / no bowing / changing his mind, etc

[Low_Flying_Seagull]

just heard talksport (so probably a load of bollocks) but anyway apparently their sources have told them this is the team:

James

Cole

Upson

Terry

Johnson

Milner

Lampard

Barry

Gerrard

Defoe

Rooney

Seems very narrow, would imagine it would be a 4-1-3-2

[Woodmansee]

Yea true it could backfire.

[tcoleman1]

I could see a formation like Ancelotti uses at Chelsea being effective for England. Almost a 4-1-2-1-2 formation that way we could have Rooney up front with Heskey still/or Crouch. We could then have Gerrard or Lampard at the top of the diamond with the other in CM with Joe Cole playing the Malouda type role. The wing backs can give us width when needed. I think it would work tbh.

[Sam Smith2]

Terry and the defense are prob the only positive thing you can take from the team right now, on the pitch.

How can you say this?

2 games ,2 different keepers.Johnson has been average at best.Everyone knew Carragher is too slow and has to constantly "hold off" and foul opponents ,so has picked up 2 quick bookings.JT isn`t playing as good as he has in the past.Cole has done well at Left Back ,but he needs to be super fit ,as Gerrard wanders inside,so he needs to provide the attacking width aswell as defencive duties.

[Woodmansee]

I'm not talking about the goalie. The defense is responsible for 0 goals so far. Sure Johnson or A Cole haven't been great going forward, but no one has.

[Sam Smith2]

Ok, the defence has handled the attacks of USA and Algeria you mean ?

What happens when they face someone half decent?

[Woodmansee]

Yea we'll have to see then. I'm just saying on the pitch, the defense up to now, are the only ones I don't really have a problem with.

[skybluedave]

With the exception of his sloppy pass against Algeria. JT has been really good in both games IMO. He held a shakey defense together quite well against the US. Though didn't have much to do agaisnt Algeria.

[Michael F]

I'm not talking about the goalie. The defense is responsible for 0 goals so far. Sure Johnson or A Cole haven't been great going forward, but no one has.

Carragher got raped by the USA winger in the first match which resulted in their equaliser iirc

[ham_aka_stam]

"Throwing yourself in at the deep end" is surely the best way to deal with it though. Staying in a sea front hotel down by the beach an nipping up a mountain for 2 hours a day is not going to cut it. And Jesus, five weeks should be long enough for super fit professional sportsmen to get used to it. They're not in Bolivia or Ecuador ffs, it's only 1600m in Rustenburg. Most resorts in the Alps are higher than that, and it doesn't stop armies of semi fit amateurs going there to ski and to hike and getting on OK.

If you say so. It sounds like you know what you're talking about. Where did you study human physiology?

Throwing yourself at the deep end IS the best way, but not necessarily so soon to the WC, and not necessarily staying there after your period of acclimatisation. Most altitude training is done before the competition, then the athletes would return to their normal altitude before the competition. I'd suggest this is party what has caused Milner's illness, and if so, he should have returned to sea level a.s.a.p. to recover.

Someone's fitness has absolutely nothing to do with how well they deal with, acclimatise to, and perform at altitude. In fact, chunky and even fat people can deal with altitude better than slim, trained individuals. Saying that though, there is no way of predicting how someone will deal with it.

Most resorts in the Alps are higher than that. And I've only stayed (10days) at one once, but I left with mild altitude sickness. To compare a few hours skiing (not normally an aerobic sport) to 90mins of high level football (competition if not performance) is rather naive too.

Basically, you don't know what you're talking about. I apologise for my bluntness.

I've said I'm sceptical of Souness's comments, but what he alluded to is that the specialist medical personnel were ignored to some extent with regards England's preparation for altitude, and I find this worth discussing.

[Mr Sandman]

who's ******** themselves then

[Philip Rolfe]

What do people think if Mark Saggers' claims are true?

[Bigwig]

Also bigwig I would like to know who you would have instead of Terry? Ledley King doesn't count as an injury per se as he can hardly last when he is fully fit anyway. I would have Ferdinand and Terry every day of the week, he's better tham Dawson, Upson and Carragher quite easily for me and on top of that he commands the defence with ease. He has vast experience at both international and european leve.

I wouldn’t have anyone instead of him, never claimed otherwise.

[ham_aka_stam]

I am not buying the altitude thing from Souness and neither is anyone else and that's probably why no one has focused on it, no one in the media either.

In 1986 there was nothing wrong with Scotland's performances aside from the usual lack of quality so I don't know what he's on about there. They were outplayed by a very good Danish side, took the lead against Germany before losing 2-1 and their comedic match of that particular tournament was Uruguay 0-0 even though they were down to 10 men within a minute, Steve Nicol missed a sitter.

He said "I experienced this in Mexico" when he didn't seem to in terms of performance. England were also there in Mexico and less was made it the conditions back then than now as we have all this info about what it does to the body.

Also, we took some 'specialist' guy that basically studies this kind of thing ... he knows a tad more than Souness. We went to Austria, we have special equipment to prepare for higher altitudes. Went back to England to play a friendly. Back to Austria and then South Africa ... this guy, I believe, is still with us and the equipment is still with us too.

I can't imagine the FA went cheap on this and this seems to be a guy that would be well informed about the effects of altitude on the body and time taken to acclimitise.

It seems we've had more than enough time, the Yanks did no altitude training at all and rocked up in South Africa a few days before us. No one else seems to be bothered by this thing Souness is describing in the tournament but I do appreciate his efforts to make us all feel better

I haven't bought it, but I do consider it quite alarming.

I can't comment on 1986, as I wasn't even born.

I'd agree that any "specialist" knows more than Souness, but he's clearly also spoken to a specialist, who seems to have given Souness the feeling that he questions what England have to done to prepare for SA.

The gist I got from what Souness was saying, was either that the specialist with England has made a mistake (money doesn't always buy the best in the same way spending £30m on a player doesn't guarantee performances), or (more likely) that the specialists plans did not fit with the FA/Capello/someone else's plans, and the preparation was compromised.

I'm not saying this happened, I'm not saying Souness is necessarily right, but I do think it's possible, and I reckon the FA will look into it if England seem as sluggish in their next game.

The suggestion that USA did no altitude training if anything backs up what GS brought up: that the issue lies with LIVING at altitude. Not doing altitude prep. training.

I'm not an expert, but I do know a fair bit on the subject, so I can't say exactly what they should have done, or whether what they did was wrong (I'm not even sure the exact time frame which England followed).

[ajw10]

Carragher got raped by the USA winger in the first match which resulted in their equaliser iirc

Considering he wasn't even on the pitch, thats some achievement.

[ajw10]

Right, so he's a genius for somehow managing to cultivate enough points from THIRTY GAMES to have kept Spurs up that season?

Do you not get sarcasm at all?

[skybluedave]

who's ******** themselves then

Very much. Saturday I was depressed, seriously thought we'll feck up against Slovenia. Sunday and Monday I got a bit more confidence. It's only Slovenia, of course we can beat them. Now I'm getting nervous again, and gone all pessimistic.

[Zaitsev]

just heard talksport (so probably a load of bollocks) but anyway apparently their sources have told them this is the team:

James

Cole

Upson

Terry

Johnson

Milner

Lampard

Barry

Gerrard

Defoe

Rooney

Seems very narrow, would imagine it would be a 4-1-3-2

that's just a 4-4-2 with someone more comfortable cutting in on the right. (allowing Johnson to attack like with Kuijt at club level)

[Razzler]

What do people think if Mark Saggers' claims are true?

I am looking at a Twitter thing that looks like it's typed by a 14 year old.

"hi Steve Gerrard ..." Is that the original comment or someone's reaction to it (a fan) as I am not on twitter.

Is the gist basically Gerrard texted people in the media about what happened knowing they'd bury Terry and big him up?

If so, I don't think the media have bigged Gerrard up in this much, none of them seem to have said what Gerrard himself did or his (more mature) relationship with Capello for instance but just 'why didn't Gerrard speak out' instead.

I don't think every England player that comes out to the press needs to give their response to Terry's comments, Lampard has done the sensible speaking on behalf of everyone, Terry included.

Anything Gerrard has to say to Terry should be done away from the media

[Razzler]

If we weren't bringing Joe Cole I did wonder why not Milner on the right (or left) then, he's come on and made an impact before. Maybe he still wasn't 100% or I worried maybe Capello didn't trust him anymore (in the way Managers trust someone to 'do a job') but his initial performance against the States was probably more related to he shouldn't have been selected

[skybluedave]

I do like it when Capello says Joe Cole. He kinda says it as one name. Never calls him Cole (obviously because of Ashley) but sounds like he's saying jackal. Always makes me laugh. That and I swear he's called Gareth Barry, Gary Barry a few times

[Razzler]

haha, I think he just calls him 'Barry' ... one word, like Pele

[robbert_o154]

Still beats Johan Cruijff, who always says John Thierry and Terry Henry.

[chopper99]

Considering he wasn't even on the pitch, thats some achievement.

He wasn't on the pitch for the equaliser iirc, but he was brought on in place of King later on, and was indeed raped on at least one occasion. As someone alluded to earlier, he's far too slow to do anything other than block and hold players, and is constantly at risk of getting carded. In short, he's a fecking liability.

Why he was even included in the squad still puzzles me, Wes Brown would have been a better option ffs.

[Razzler]

Wes Brown has had lots of injuries and when he came back he played a bit poor before getting injured again IIRC, was looking ropey even before his metatarsal injury

[tigerhgrrrrrr]

Just a thought, if "pressure" was to blame for the last 2 performanaces then if we do fail then just wait until the next Euro/WC Finals stage. Presuming we actually qualify, and God forbid that we ever again have a manager who cannot achieve that bare minimum requirement, the pressure will be multiplied by then. We the England fans do expect too much from our team I suspect but that probably won't change, so the next tournament(s) become(s) of greater importance.

It's strange how the blame seems to be shifting though, I have seen the blame apportioned to Rooney, the Manager, Terry and "the pressure of expectation" all within the space of a few days. I suspect the real problem is a combination of all these factors and several others.

[Rio_V]

The real problem was obviously the kit.

http://g.sports.yahoo.com/soccer/world-cup/blog/dirty-tackle/post/All-red-kit-will-see-England-through?urn=sow,250378

[pouncer]

Tomorrow, if we beat Slovenia, we will win the World Cup.

You heard it here first. I am sure of it. I have that feeling. However, beating Slovenia won't be easy and it wouldn't surprise me if we did go out tomorrow.

[Michael F]

Considering he wasn't even on the pitch, thats some achievement.

my mistake, still got raped by their Left Winger though

[aggressive minor]

Do you not get sarcasm at all?

It's not always obvious to catch sarcasm on a forum, apart from you of course smartass.

[skybluedave]

Our lucky red kit, not on ITV. Put your mortgage on it

[lawd]

I'd give it a go at trying to name it....

Hart

glen Johnson

kieran Gibbs

terry

rodwell/smalling(depending on where rodwell ends up playing)

Lennon

wilshire

morrison

rodwell

milner

Rooney

I'd add Josh McEachren to that, the boy is scary talented, fantastic technically with a really good football brain, just needs to bulk up a little, but thats nowt to worry about.

A video if anyone is interested; http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yYNcQcjslOI&feature=player_embedded

[Sam Smith2]

Ive only read the last page or so ,so if this has been covered/debaited fair enough.

The thing that got me about JT`s press conference was the time after training and before team dinner (5-7hours),where he says boredom was setting in.So they ONLY train from like 10am-1pm every day?

I understand they need to be fresh (not knackered) but surely with how everyone is moaning about the ball/altitude,any practice should be squeezed in.Passing the ball over medium/long distances,Passing short,keepy uppy`s ,PENALTIES.These should be done for 4-5 hours every afternoon.

The players surely would get better touch and passing of the new ball/altitude.What eactly do they do for 3 hours on their morning practice,obviously not enough!

Surely ball practice in the afternoon is better than ,darts,pool ,playstation,Safari or golf?

[Benjani'sBootCleaner]

Tomorrow, if we beat Slovenia, we will win the World Cup.

You heard it here first. I am sure of it. I have that feeling. However, beating Slovenia won't be easy and it wouldn't surprise me if we did go out tomorrow.

Well you'd expect us to 'breeze' ( ) to the Semi Finals. Winning tomorrow, Serbia most likely in the next round then either Uruguay or South Korea in a potential Quarter Final. Then being stuffed by Brazil in the Semis by the looks of it.

[crouchaldinho]

Our lucky red kit, not on ITV. Put your mortgage on it

Exactly!

[Rob1981]

Anybody seen the front pages for tomorrow? Presumably it's all gone full circle and we are world beaters again?

[Coentrao]

Well you'd expect us to 'breeze' ( ) to the Semi Finals. Winning tomorrow' date=' Serbia most likely in the next round then either Uruguay or South Korea in a potential Quarter Final. Then being stuffed by Brazil in the Semis by the looks of it.[/quote']

Well you people are "confident".. i'll give you that.

It's still amazing how you think that even if you manage to get to the knock-out rounds you are going to easily beat those teams.. considering that Serbia managed to stop Germany and that Uruguay is easily one of the most impressive teams in the tournament so far..

I guess that looking at the country name to value it's football value it's going to be a common fallacy for a long time.. even though the early games of this tournament taught us otherwise.

[Rhino]

How is your red kit lucky, btw, given that you've not worn this particular colour scheme since 1962?

[Rob1981]

We've not worn all red for decades, normally red shirts with white shorts. But we've won a few WC games in red shirts:

66 vs Germany obv

02 vs Argentina

98 vs Colombia

plus probably some others I've forgotten

[Rhino]

So, 3 matches in 44 years then?

[Rob1981]

Oh, we also wore red when we beat Germany 1-0 in Euro 2000

And against Nigeria in WC2002 - a tepid 0-0 draw, but enough to qualify us for the last 16

[gaga_4_parma]

I'd add Josh McEachren to that, the boy is scary talented, fantastic technically with a really good football brain, just needs to bulk up a little, but thats nowt to worry about.

A video if anyone is interested; http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yYNcQcjslOI&feature=player_embedded

What talent?...I didn't see anything in the entire video which made me think he's anything special.:confused: