Mr Sandman Posted June 21, 2010 Share Posted June 21, 2010 i thought he tried other formations but 4-4-2 proved most effective Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
skybluedave Posted June 21, 2010 Share Posted June 21, 2010 In fairness though its not just JT whose trying to get Cole in the side, the vast majority of the media and fans did also, don't think he should be made a scapegoat for saying what we all think. And anyway he said those things abot COle because the journos asked him, he wasn't like 'yeah it will be crimianl if he doesn't play' it was more like 'Joe is a fantastic player who I'm sure would do a job if he played'. Got no problem with people wanting Joe Cole in the side, but it's not his place to talk to the media about. McNulty sums it up in the blog above: Here is my take: I believe Terry was entitled to say pretty much everything he said, apart from his shameless lobbying for the inclusion of Joe Cole. To say someone should be in is self-evidently saying someone should be out - and this is not Terry's place. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pouncer Posted June 21, 2010 Share Posted June 21, 2010 I think it's a bit of a fuss over nothing: JT walked into trouble when he said to much to the media. This wouldn't be such a big story if it didn't follow Evra-gate and if the English media were nice, respectful gentlemen. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
skybluedave Posted June 21, 2010 Share Posted June 21, 2010 So why has it suddenly stopped working now? All i hear from the media is stop playing 4-4-2, but tbf it worked in qualifying (admittedly against some weaker teams, but so are Algeria) I agree. I've always been in favour of 442. Not really behind the Gerrard/Rooney 4231. People seem certain that if we change formation then we'll all of a sudden become good again. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
aggressive minor Posted June 21, 2010 Author Share Posted June 21, 2010 I think it's a bit of a fuss over nothing: JT walked into trouble when he said to much to the media. This wouldn't be such a big story if it didn't follow Evra-gate and if the English media were nice, respectful gentlemen. Terry's not stupid, he knew the media would blow up. He seemed very deliberate in what he was doing. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SeanNUFC Posted June 21, 2010 Share Posted June 21, 2010 Terry's not stupid,. You sure about that? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
aggressive minor Posted June 21, 2010 Author Share Posted June 21, 2010 Haha, well in some ways I guess so! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lawd Posted June 21, 2010 Share Posted June 21, 2010 I agree it isn't his place to pick the team, but I don't really think he was trying to lead a coup, or shamelessly lobbying as phil puts it. I think he was asked if Joe would make a diference and he thought he would, if he was picked. I found the honesty and tone of the press conference refreshing. He stressd all the way through it that he had te utmost respect for Fabio and what ever was said and what ever decisions were made he would be behind fully. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Confused Clarity Posted June 21, 2010 Share Posted June 21, 2010 Papers want to create a rift, as they want England to lose on Weds because they can write better headlines Again, how is this the papers fault? John Terry is the one who said he and the players will be having words with Capello in a press conference. John Terry is the one who named the players who supposedly agreed with him and caused those players to be annoyed at being dragged into it. John Terry was the one who went to Capello on behalf of the players when the players didnt actually want to confront Capello. How is it the press that have decided to cause this rift? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Suge Posted June 21, 2010 Share Posted June 21, 2010 Carter defending the press. Shocking. They're all like flys around ****. Waste of oxygen. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
McMaster#28 Posted June 21, 2010 Share Posted June 21, 2010 The Times really went to town with Terry today, basically saying none of the staff like him, and the players are split between not liking him and thinking "WTF are you doing saying these thing publicly. " Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
McMaster#28 Posted June 21, 2010 Share Posted June 21, 2010 Oh and he's annoyed Chelsea too by saying yesterday they were wrong to let J.Cole go. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Bacon Posted June 21, 2010 Share Posted June 21, 2010 God forbid a player care about his club/country and have an opinion Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Confused Clarity Posted June 21, 2010 Share Posted June 21, 2010 Carter defending the press. Shocking.They're all like flys around ****. Waste of oxygen. Are you being sarcastic with your pop at me? You think I defend the press regularly on these kind of things? I'm defending the press regarding this particular issue sure, but really, considering how i'm on record about how much my dislike for your national side comes from how how utterly ridiculous the press become during the World Cup, how you can say that of me is baffling. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
aggressive minor Posted June 21, 2010 Author Share Posted June 21, 2010 Paul- so expressing these opinions during the WC to the media is going to be helpful is it? Especially when the England team are in crisis. Yes it would be a disaster if we didn't qualify, but it would also be a disaster if we lost Capello in my opinion. Good luck finding another manager with tons of La Liga and Serie A titles, plus being a CL winner, a manager who can stand up to the big ego players of the modern day. edit- as it is Paul, if things like this came out in the media after the Capello reign, I don't think it would be so bad, or as least after the WC. Whats Terry got to lose by being a man and discussing the issue with Capello constructively? Why try to bring the media into it? Why go down a route which is only going to cause trouble? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
aggressive minor Posted June 21, 2010 Author Share Posted June 21, 2010 Are you being sarcastic with your pop at me? You think I defend the press regularly on these kind of things?I'm defending the press regarding this particular issue sure, but really, considering how i'm on record about how much my dislike for your national side comes from how how utterly ridiculous the press become during the World Cup, how you can say that of me is baffling. I have to say I agree with Gregg. Press not to blame at all in this instance. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
aggressive minor Posted June 21, 2010 Author Share Posted June 21, 2010 Also not just Terry, James is a sly git for his interview after the Algeria match. If you have a problem go see the manager, these behind the back comments are so childish, it reminds me of gossiping/bitching in high school. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ACou2000 Posted June 21, 2010 Share Posted June 21, 2010 Paul- so expressing these opinions during the WC to the media is going to be helpful is it? Especially when the England team are in crisis.Yes it would be a disaster if we didn't qualify, but it would also be a disaster if we lost Capello in my opinion. Good luck finding another manager with tons of La Liga and Serie A titles, plus being a CL winner, a manager who can stand up to the big ego players of the modern day. Harry Redknapp can do better Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedRom3000 Posted June 21, 2010 Share Posted June 21, 2010 Harry Redknapp can do better Can you sort us out with some of what you've taken tonight? It appears it takes your head to a proper fantasy world. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Sandman Posted June 21, 2010 Share Posted June 21, 2010 the players really need a performance whatever Capello choses, i'd like to say "yeah Woy would be better, yeah Redknapp" but it seems whoever managers them it goes out of control, Sven and Mclaren didn't get their respect and Capello seems to of lost any freedom for the players play. Its down to them really, they can't expect the perfect medium... or can they Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ACou2000 Posted June 21, 2010 Share Posted June 21, 2010 spurs only had 2 points from 8 games when he took over. he's a GENIUS. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
aggressive minor Posted June 21, 2010 Author Share Posted June 21, 2010 You being sarcastic about Harry? I presume you are, but can never be sure with sarcasm on a forum. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedRom3000 Posted June 21, 2010 Share Posted June 21, 2010 spurs only had 2 points from 8 games when he took over. he's a GENIUS. Right, so he's a genius for somehow managing to cultivate enough points from THIRTY GAMES to have kept Spurs up that season? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Suge Posted June 21, 2010 Share Posted June 21, 2010 Are you being sarcastic with your pop at me? You think I defend the press regularly on these kind of things?I'm defending the press regarding this particular issue sure, but really, considering how i'm on record about how much my dislike for your national side comes from how how utterly ridiculous the press become during the World Cup, how you can say that of me is baffling. Re-read what I said. The 'shocking' bit at the end was in regards to you defending the press at all because I know how much you hate them. Wipe that tear out of your eye and man up. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
kingcav Posted June 21, 2010 Share Posted June 21, 2010 teehee. . Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
brett.spurs Posted June 21, 2010 Share Posted June 21, 2010 From what I've seen of Capello I wouldn't at all be bothered if get quit, what he does at club level in Serie A holds little relevance to me. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Philip Rolfe Posted June 21, 2010 Administrators Share Posted June 21, 2010 Pretty good view of things from a Chelsea fan, if you ignore the eccentric headline. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Bacon Posted June 21, 2010 Share Posted June 21, 2010 Paul- so expressing these opinions during the WC to the media is going to be helpful is it? Especially when the England team are in crisis.Yes it would be a disaster if we didn't qualify, but it would also be a disaster if we lost Capello in my opinion. Good luck finding another manager with tons of La Liga and Serie A titles, plus being a CL winner, a manager who can stand up to the big ego players of the modern day. edit- as it is Paul, if things like this came out in the media after the Capello reign, I don't think it would be so bad, or as least after the WC. Whats Terry got to lose by being a man and discussing the issue with Capello constructively? Why try to bring the media into it? Why go down a route which is only going to cause trouble? Ive not read and heard every tiny detail of this, but from what i have read it appears he said he backs the manager and he and the rest of the players admit the performance wasnt acceptable. Then he went on to talk about having these clear the air talks. OK saying all that in infront of the tabloid press isnt the brightest thing to do as they twist everything, but he wasnt slagging anyone off or disrepecting the manager. He was saying they played poorly and need to air their frustrations about it. Yet its the papers this morning who are talking about some massive divide and rift in the team, which seems at odds as to what Terry said in the conference. But ofc they need to sell papers, and slagging off England is a way they do it Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
aggressive minor Posted June 21, 2010 Author Share Posted June 21, 2010 From what I've seen of Capello I wouldn't at all be bothered if get quit, what he does at club level in Serie A holds little relevance to me. No not now it doesn't, but it proves how good a manager he has been. End of the day us England fans have seen him manage what less than 30 games? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Technodvl2 Posted June 21, 2010 Share Posted June 21, 2010 If joe cole plays next game Who doesn't my vote gerrard why didnt cappello take baines aswell as a cole 1 could play LB other ML problem on left sorted Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vic Taylor Posted June 22, 2010 Share Posted June 22, 2010 Lennon? With Cole on the left and Barry on the right? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmr Posted June 22, 2010 Share Posted June 22, 2010 No idea where the players and media get the idea J.Cole is suddenly going to unlock defenses and setup goals from, he's been awful for Chelsea this season. Yeah the side would be more balanced with him in it but he's really not going to make much of a difference if any. He should still start ofcourse, but the media and some people on here seem to think he's going to be our saviour for some reason. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crazy_T Posted June 22, 2010 Share Posted June 22, 2010 I for one am pinning all my hopes on him. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Razzler Posted June 22, 2010 Share Posted June 22, 2010 The 'Cape Town Nine' () just stayed up for 1 beer to relax and talk about the game, that's it, they mentioned Capello was there having wine IIRC although not clear if that was in the same room or not. Terry, I think, was trying to use this an example of breaking the tensions and relaxing. There doesn't seem to be a lot of fun around the camp. I know it's serious business but there needs to be some light moments Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Sandman Posted June 22, 2010 Share Posted June 22, 2010 my mates are over in SA and they got a photo with JT and JC after the first game at a crocodile sanctuary, fun Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
7zige Posted June 22, 2010 Share Posted June 22, 2010 Not sure if this has been posted before Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmr Posted June 22, 2010 Share Posted June 22, 2010 About 4 times now iirc but it should be posted atleast once on every page, it's that good Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ham_aka_stam Posted June 22, 2010 Share Posted June 22, 2010 I honestly don't get this whole Terry issue, and I'm astounded no-one has yet commented on Souness's altitude argument. It's been posted twice now, and it seems people would rather discuss why Terry is an idiot (I think he did very little wrong). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob1981 Posted June 22, 2010 Share Posted June 22, 2010 Not really sure what Souness is suggesting there. Seems to be moaning that we've got our team hotel in Rustenburg rather than at sea level, so the players have to deal with the altitude 24/7 rather than just when our games are on. But what's the alternative? Train at sea level every day and then turn up on match days without any preparation for the conditions? Yes we've only had one group game at altitude and two at sea level, but *if* we win our group and progress our next two games will be in Rustenburg and then Johannesburg. Then he says after 3-4 weeks it's not a problem because you've acclimatised. Well it's over five weeks since the squad flew out to Austria. At the end of the day it's the same for everybody, altitude is just a pathetic excuse. There are plenty of other countries playing in the same conditions and doing OK, and many of them without the same crazy resources to lavish on their facilities and training camps. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ham_aka_stam Posted June 22, 2010 Share Posted June 22, 2010 No, he's suggesting that instead of doing a period of altitude training and then returning to sea level again to make camp, our players have been effectively thrown in at the deep end, and that any who have reacted badly have no opportunity to recover from the ill effects. Of course the altitude's the same for everybody, but how each team prepares and deals with it is entirely different. I'm not sure how you can say that high resources = correct decisions either. I am sceptical of Souness's "I know more than I'm willing to say at this time", but IF what he says is true, it seems the staff have made a bit of a gaffe. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir Stuart Wilson Posted June 22, 2010 Share Posted June 22, 2010 I think it would be more than a bit of a gaffe, Ham. It would have effectively thrown away 2 years of work for what should have been done correctly with all the experts they used(unless they asked a Scottish guy/who should then be knighted:D). If England once again turn in another poor performance against Slovenia then I think SOuness will have been justified in what he says, effectively saying England will be at their lowest ebb at 4 weeks into altitude training... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob1981 Posted June 22, 2010 Share Posted June 22, 2010 No, he's suggesting that instead of doing a period of altitude training and then returning to sea level again to make camp, our players have been effectively thrown in at the deep end, and that any who have reacted badly have no opportunity to recover from the ill effects. Of course the altitude's the same for everybody, but how each team prepares and deals with it is entirely different.I am sceptical of Souness's "I know more than I'm willing to say at this time", but IF what he says is true, it seems the staff have made a bit of a gaffe. "Throwing yourself in at the deep end" is surely the best way to deal with it though. Staying in a sea front hotel down by the beach an nipping up a mountain for 2 hours a day is not going to cut it. And Jesus, five weeks should be long enough for super fit professional sportsmen to get used to it. They're not in Bolivia or Ecuador ffs, it's only 1600m in Rustenburg. Most resorts in the Alps are higher than that, and it doesn't stop armies of semi fit amateurs going there to ski and to hike and getting on OK. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tcoleman1 Posted June 22, 2010 Share Posted June 22, 2010 I honestly don't get this whole Terry issue, and I'm astounded no-one has yet commented on Souness's altitude argument. It's been posted twice now, and it seems people would rather discuss why Terry is an idiot (I think he did very little wrong). People are looking to blame someone I suppose and maybe they are trying to pin it on Terry? He's an easy target because of what has happened in the last few months and just because he seems the only person who would have the balls to tell Capello if he is doing something wrong then I don't see why he should get stick for it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Razzler Posted June 22, 2010 Share Posted June 22, 2010 I am not buying the altitude thing from Souness and neither is anyone else and that's probably why no one has focused on it, no one in the media either. In 1986 there was nothing wrong with Scotland's performances aside from the usual lack of quality so I don't know what he's on about there. They were outplayed by a very good Danish side, took the lead against Germany before losing 2-1 and their comedic match of that particular tournament was Uruguay 0-0 even though they were down to 10 men within a minute, Steve Nicol missed a sitter. He said "I experienced this in Mexico" when he didn't seem to in terms of performance. England were also there in Mexico and less was made it the conditions back then than now as we have all this info about what it does to the body. Also, we took some 'specialist' guy that basically studies this kind of thing ... he knows a tad more than Souness. We went to Austria, we have special equipment to prepare for higher altitudes. Went back to England to play a friendly. Back to Austria and then South Africa ... this guy, I believe, is still with us and the equipment is still with us too. I can't imagine the FA went cheap on this and this seems to be a guy that would be well informed about the effects of altitude on the body and time taken to acclimitise. It seems we've had more than enough time, the Yanks did no altitude training at all and rocked up in South Africa a few days before us. No one else seems to be bothered by this thing Souness is describing in the tournament but I do appreciate his efforts to make us all feel better Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bigwig Posted June 22, 2010 Share Posted June 22, 2010 If he has the balls to tell Cappello then he should be going to see him direct, not appearing in front of the media and telling everyone he’s going to go and talk to Cappello. He might not be saying anything that’s incorrect (haven’t heard his interview), but he shouldn’t be washing our dirty linen in public so to speak. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
skybluedave Posted June 22, 2010 Share Posted June 22, 2010 People are looking to blame someone I suppose and maybe they are trying to pin it on Terry? He's an easy target because of what has happened in the last few months and just because he seems the only person who would have the balls to tell Capello if he is doing something wrong then I don't see why he should get stick for it. We don't know if JT is the only one thinking this. Rooney or Gerrard could. They just didn't run their mouths off to the media about it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Razzler Posted June 22, 2010 Share Posted June 22, 2010 Terry's thing is quite big as well tbh. He's seemingly gone against the wishes of the team in speaking out on behalf of all of them. He's also spoken out against Capello a bit there. There are better ways to address this i.e. not in the media. If you want or senior players want to approach Capello then do that, no need to inform the media of tensions within the camp and you're gonna do something about it. In the end, whatever his intention, it's come across firstly as though he's pushing himself forward as captain/leader, that there are problems within the camp with the players and Capello's methods and there was gonna be some kind of 'face off'. Terry's position is basically safe as Carragher is suspended, King is injured, Rio obviously isn't there and that leaves Upson and Dawson. He also further rumours that he's got a bit of a grudge because of this whole stripping the armband from him thing, an incident which Capello was left to deal with without the FA saying a word btw. Terry also said 'Rooney / Joe Cole can unlock doors' so what does that say about the other players ... silly to single them out and Capello had come out and said that 'respect for the players, don't single them out' and the thing I do like is "it's the World Cup, not a holiday" although some relaxing and lighter moments are required ... we don't know if that is happening just that the players are, apparently, bored .. occupy yourselves then, you're adults, ffs! Terry also came across like a naughty schoolboy going against teacher "I might get in trouble but I don't care" and also "it doesn't matter if he's upset, I am here for England" which is a bit chest thumping and suggests Capello isn't necessarily thinking of it from an England perspective ... I think Lampard handled it very well "John tackles things head on" and was very slick, I guess Terry won't get to talk to the media anymore when they send someone every day to speak. I like Terry but I think he shouldn't have did what he did the way he did it Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Razzler Posted June 22, 2010 Share Posted June 22, 2010 We don't know if JT is the only one thinking this. Rooney or Gerrard could. They just didn't run their mouths off to the media about it. Exactly, they're a lot smarter about it. Go discuss things with the Manager, no one in the press knows but now everyone is even more paniced and talking about factions again like we constantly heard under Keegan. Also leans towards Terry not really having faith in Gerrard to deal with these issues unlike himself as a leader and so on. It seems like everyone sat around with their one beer and slagged everyone else off, as you do, he's decided he's gonna tackle this head on and mention it (that bit I don't see the upside of) and everyone else is like "Yeah, we were just venting our anger, mate". I like Capello's comments of "none of the players mentioned anything at the meeting last night" which is "come and have a go if you think you're hard enough"! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tcoleman1 Posted June 22, 2010 Share Posted June 22, 2010 Tbh I just wish it wasn't him that had to come out and say it. Had it been anyone else people wouldn't have cared as much. I suppose he shouldn't have come out to the media and say it but tbh I don't really care. Still clear to me that Terry is the person leading that team, may as well give him the armband back. Also it doesn't seem to me that Capello listens to criticsm, be it from the media or from the players. Obviously I don't know if the last one is true but there's also the possibility that Terry felt it easier to tell the media there were problems than to speak to Capello. Just a theory though as I have no evidence for it Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Razzler Posted June 22, 2010 Share Posted June 22, 2010 Judging from other player's reactions to Terry 'speaking out' they didn't seem overly happy and he was apparently told to not say anything in the meeting with Capello when they watched the Algeria game back ... not sure they're seeing him as a leader there. Be a leader on the pitch though Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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