filcom101

Radical thinking !!!!!!

26 posts in this topic

was looking at reviews of final fantasy 13 and the buzz about it is that its completely different to any other FF game.. Square Enix has radical changed how the game plays and the world thats its in ....

so seeing that im playing FM10 right now i started thinking there hasn't really been a Nuke of an idea or change that has left FM player's jaws on the floor since..... well since FM2005! there has been some improvements but lets face it if you put 2005 and 2010 next to each other and compare them......thats just my opinion

ok fair enough if it's not broke don't fix it . but il drop a word out there....stagnant!

So anyway heres my radical idea ......[B]GET RID OF RATINGS !!!![/B]

i would actully love if they got rid of the stats of scouts, coaches and managers and players and base it on achievements and reputations,

[B]SCOUTS[/B]
+instead of scouts being 20/20 and all that . have his reputation down to what players he finds. If he is at a premiership club and all he does is finds waste of space players his reputation will be a 'poor premiership scout, but maybe good in lower league'

[B]COACHES[/B]
+ get rid of all those stats of 16 attacking and 3 defending stars and what not.
and have notes!!
'Joe Soap is an world class attacking Coach. In the years of being a coach he has helped dozens of world class forwards to improve their finishing and would be asset to and top level club !!!!

[B]MANAGERS[/B]
+ stead of stars have report note
take Paul Ince... 'Paul is a top lower league manager, he can easily motivate the poorer english player but needs more time and experience in all areas to become a top tier manager.

[B]PLAYERS[/B]
+out goes PA and CA and stars and rating out of 20...and in comes a more detailed report.
if you want to buy a player ask 2, 3 scouts to look at him.

'Richard Dunne is a top premiership defender. he is a born leader and is highly driven .his strengths are man making, positioning, jumping, heading and strength which makes him an excellent defender. but he tends to lose concentration at times and gets caught out. Also he his not that fast and seeing that he is not getting any younger he has probably 3-4 years left as a top level player.'
'In conclusion Dunne would add depth to a top class club challenging for titles as a back up defender. but he would be an asset to any mid-table team that that has dreams of braking into Europe or even a a top 8 side trying to break into the champion league !!

so what you think....

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I would like these ideas to be implemented, but in addition to instead of at the expense of the current system.

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It's an interesting idea, and I applaud you for that, however the current system allows an "at a glance" summary of the strengths and weaknesses of an individual. If I had to read through dozens of paragraphs of text each time I wanted a new scout I'd soon be tearing my hair out.

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[quote name='Yid Army']I would like these ideas to be implemented, but in addition to instead of at the expense of the current system.[/QUOTE]

[quote name='Sloppy Giuseppe']It's an interesting idea, and I applaud you for that, however the current system allows an "at a glance" summary of the strengths and weaknesses of an individual. If I had to read through dozens of paragraphs of text each time I wanted a new scout I'd soon be tearing my hair out.[/QUOTE]

What I was going to say has been covered by both these :thup:

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I think this idea is more realistic but I think most people will prefer comparing attributes rather than having to read through scout reports.

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Decent ideas, but they would never work as a replacement for the current system as they just aren't very user friendly. Things need to be as easy as possible for the end user to understand as that's what the vast majority of people want.

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I would love to have Financial Advisers:

- Player X is a fantastic buy; he woudl generate approx. 250% revenue average in his first year as a Key player over three years.

- Based on your current gamble of talent of an expenditure of 40 mil over 48 months, if we reach at least the quarter finals of major cups and reach the top four over the next 4 years we would generate a profit of 25%.

- Due to the number of times player X visits the treatment table it would be advisable to sell him while his vale is still high as it is depreciating at 17% more than average.

- Although we have to repay a loan depbt of 900.000 per month over 15 years, there should be no concern as we expect to make 5 mil as a minimum per month giving a healthy balance for further investments and still make a profit!

- Based on the approximate rate of growth of tatal value of wealth being generated in the league, we should have little concern on our youth being poached by richer clubs.

FYI; my figures might be off but the point is mostly valid.

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Get rid of ratings - Are you serious they are a big part of the game.

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[quote name='craigcwwe']Get rid of ratings - Are you serious they are a big part of the game.[/QUOTE]

:thup: This basically.

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A strange, and probably quite perverse part of me that I'd never share without anonymity gets a warm fuzzy feeling whenever I look at page after page of ratings, stats and so on.

I've spent hours happily poring over PA, CA, using the ingame search function, and so on so forth.

I love ratings. :P

I would though, in fairness, agree with the lad who mentioned having them in addition to, not as a replacement of, rather like the tactical layout.

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((( Re: Radical thinking !!!!!!
I would love to have Financial Advisers:

- Player X is a fantastic buy; he woudl generate approx. 250% revenue average in his first year as a Key player over three years.

- Based on your current gamble of talent of an expenditure of 40 mil over 48 months, if we reach at least the quarter finals of major cups and reach the top four over the next 4 years we would generate a profit of 25%.

- Due to the number of times player X visits the treatment table it would be advisable to sell him while his vale is still high as it is depreciating at 17% more than average.

- Although we have to repay a loan depbt of 900.000 per month over 15 years, there should be no concern as we expect to make 5 mil as a minimum per month giving a healthy balance for further investments and still make a profit!

- Based on the approximate rate of growth of tatal value of wealth being generated in the league, we should have little concern on our youth being poached by richer clubs.

FYI; my figures might be off but the point is mostly valid.
)))


Would very much like this idea, and fir more
control on the financial side, as the current ecconic climate plays a huge role in eveyday occurances, let alone multiple million pound football clubs.

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I agree with Simon.Baker really.

I think that it would take too long to read through all of that for every potential signing.

I also think that if it were introduced it should be an option that we should be able to choose to include when we start a new game. I personally wouldn't use it and I know it would annoy me if I had no way to get rid of it.

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Perhaps could be like attribute masking, you can tick it or untick it at the start of a game.

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I wish the stars system was not on recommendation but on actually quality of player. Just because you think we have 10 players at the level of CR and Messi don't recommend me the 11th CR/Messi a 1 star. Its so freaken annoying. The scout told me the Ballon d'Or TWENTY ONE YEAR OLD STRIKER (was a regen) was only a 2.5 stars. Seriously, only 2.5 stars? And the scout was a world class one too. AsstMan said the samething. Both were 20/20 on judging. Just because he thinks I have too many world class strikers doesn't mean I don't want another one. (Aguero and Dzeko were getting old).

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All descriptions such as player personalities or positional ratings are semantic translations of numbers. Thus, in theory SI could go on to convert all numbers into descriptions as you suggest. The numbers would be in the database, so it should be possible to have a dual system - numbers or words depending on the preference of the player. It would be a huge ask of SI and I don't know if it would be sufficiently popular to justify it, but I think it would be technically feasible.

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Possibly the worst suggestion ever (again).

About 95% of people would stop playing because it would be too much hard work and no fun whatsoever.

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[quote name='filcom101']so what you think....[/QUOTE]

I think it's about darn time we get someone with this view!

Personally, I have been searching for years for ways to get rid of, or hide, attributes in these types of games. The freeware EHM had an option for it, and OOTP has a nice set of options for it. I figured out a 'censored' background set that can hide them in EHM 2007. FM is the only game left that suffers from a reliance on the ease of attributes. It can sort of be helped if you use the 'Show Graphical Attributes' option, but it's still far too "revealing".

I completely agree with you. I can't wait for the day when FM has a mode to play without the cheat of visible attributes telling us every little detail about each player.

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[quote name='B. Stinson']I think it's about darn time we get someone with this view!

Personally, I have been searching for years for ways to get rid of, or hide, attributes in these types of games. The freeware EHM had an option for it, and OOTP has a nice set of options for it. I figured out a 'censored' background set that can hide them in EHM 2007. FM is the only game left that suffers from a reliance on the ease of attributes. It can sort of be helped if you use the 'Show Graphical Attributes' option, but it's still far too "revealing".

I completely agree with you. I can't wait for the day when FM has a mode to play without the cheat of visible attributes telling us every little detail about each player.[/QUOTE]

That's a fair enough view if you realy want to invest an enormous amount of time and effort into the game, but it would really have to be optional because most people would feel completely alienated by such an approach. Sure, I like the game, but there is NO way I want to invest that much time into it. I'm perfectly happy with scouts and coaches telling me who is good and I want to see the numbers straight away.

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Your suggestions although interesting, would absolutely push the learning curve up to a canyon for players new to the game. Veteran CM/FM players would handle this well and may enjoy the added challenge but novice players may be put off.

Lets face it. The current game is already pretty tough for a novice to handle. It takes probably 3 months for him/her to familiarise with the many elements the game has to offer, from training right up to press conferences/player personality handling. Some FM veterans still don't have a clue on certain aspects of the game and implementing your suggestions would actually degrade their gaming experience.

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[quote name='craigcwwe']Get rid of ratings - Are you serious they are a big part of the game.[/QUOTE]

as the Thread name says ...Radical thinking !!! as the dictionary says

[B]rad·i·cal [/B]
[U]thoroughgoing or extreme, esp. as regards change from accepted or traditional forms[/U]: a radical change in the policy of a company.

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Ratings are realistic and very important to the game.

ratings are used to compare players and performances a lot irl. Also, in FM you don't have a lot more information on players tahn those stats. You don't get to see them enough to make up your mind by other means. In real time you might be able to see a lot of football and to hear about good and bad performances. In a video game you don't have that chance.

Would thus be a huge setback to FM :thdn:


If there was any so called radical approach to be taken towards FM, then the player values should be get rid of. They don't exist irl and many many experts are usualyy surprised to see at what price a player goes.

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I think this would be a good idea.......More scouting would be needed and so more realistic. Hiring coaches shouldn't be as easy as that either and it should take a while to find the right coaching setup.

This will never be implemented though but I think more communication with the chairman and coaches will help move the game on.

The transfer system needs to be made more realistic as at Spurs you're able to spend 20mil on one player in one go. In real life spurs try and buy players over 36-48 months so more realism's needed on this front.

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It can't work on its own for the simple reason that we can't spend the time watching how the player performs in his entirety. We don't see training etc so need the numbers to display what we can't - and don't have the time to - see.

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agree that it would be better to have it as a option ... but i think it would be more true to real life. alex ferguson doesn't ask a scout how many stars would you give a player he's interested in !!!! he talks to the scout, looks at dvds and all that...he doesn't look at a page and see's the player has 17 out of 20 finishing !!!!!

ok so hows this as a compromise

players that are at your club have all the stats, ratings and reports available....
but [U]every other[/U] player outside your team has their stats rating hidden and unavailable.. and you have to scout them to see the info.....

p.s football is about achievements, reputations and opinions . not about 18/20 finishing or 4/20 long shots or even 10/20 long throws..

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How can the game know to write theese reports without the stats behind it? It needs Finishing 17 and Composure 19 to be able to tell us he has a natural goalscoring instinct. I like what your saying, but it would need to run off the stats, not replace them.

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[quote name='filcom101']agree that it would be better to have it as a option ... but i think it would be more true to real life. alex ferguson doesn't ask a scout how many stars would you give a player he's interested in !!!! he talks to the scout, looks at dvds and all that...he doesn't look at a page and see's the player has 17 out of 20 finishing !!!!!

ok so hows this as a compromise

players that are at your club have all the stats, ratings and reports available....
but [U]every other[/U] player outside your team has their stats rating hidden and unavailable.. and you have to scout them to see the info.....

p.s football is about achievements, reputations and opinions . not about 18/20 finishing or 4/20 long shots or even 10/20 long throws..[/QUOTE]

It's about skill levels too though?

In order to achieve the reputation, win the trophies and get the good opinions you need to be good at certain technical aspects.

It's clear that Wayne Rooney is a better finisher than a League 1 striker and this would need to be represented somehow.

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Of course this would be possible, though the big problem is that numbers are much easier to read and take in. Comparing players would take much longer than it does now. Would enough people be interested in playing this way for it to be worth it?

Probably one of those areas of the game that needs to stay like it is for the sake of gameplay, even if it can be made more realistic.

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