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Which Tactic Do You Think Is The Best Version.  

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  1. 1. Which Tactic Do You Think Is The Best Version.



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Hey Mr Hough

First thing I need to say is that without you FM10 really wouldn't have happened. With FC United I have achieved 5 promotions in 7 years!

I just have a couple of questions to help me even further:

1) Did you use the tactic in the lower leagues at all?

2) When you search for players using the filters, how do you select from the results found? Do you rely on your scouts at all? Did you do so at lower league level?

I'd like to know what everyone else does as well if you don't mind!

Cheers

saab693

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yes, i play the Mr Hough & JP Woody version only.

i have a bus load of strikers but only 2 AMCs, so i cant experiment with the latest 4-1-2-1-2 version.

I've not tried Lukaku in the central position.

I'm going to experiment Edinson Cavani in that position next season, cos Adriano's stats are declining rapidly (i think its because of his poor work rate)

I rotated Cavani in the central striker role and he blew hot and cold. Scored hat trick in 1 game but then got below 6.0 ratings in 2 other games after.

i'm training him to 'Shoot with Power' and i'm getting Dzeko to tutor him now.

Fingers crossed.

I have Borja Baston lined up to lead the line for the future. He's got the height and technique for the role. Now's his mental and physical skills have to catch up. He's 19 this season so i dont need to register him.

Transfer in i did was Neymar from Santos (12 mil), Fabio and Rafael from Man U (combined 25 mil, 10 for Fabio, 15 for Rafael), loads of talented youngsters.

Let go of Rafinha and Forlan for good money.

Not sure if you still have money but you should try Luis Suarez for the center striker position. He doesn't have the aerial power of Adriano or Dzeko or Cavani, but he has enough of it, plus he's quite a solid all around player in general. He is doing the business for my Cordoba team from that position.

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actually, in terms of strikers performing if tried something and i've gotten interesting results. let me share explain more.

Left and Right Strikers:

Its true that they tend to drift wide sometimes. but because the passing is set to "Play through the middle", width is relatively narrow and u should have set ur home pitch to most narrow at the beginning of the season, the Left and Right strikers rarely end up hugging the touchline.

They normally end up on the outside shoulder of the fullbacks or in the space vacated by the fullbacks if they have bombed forward.

I shall use the Left striker position for an example. The right striker position i use the same strategy. Now, for my left striker, i use either Aguero, Dzeko, Forlan or Buottanonte. Each of these strikers performs very differently. I make my choice based on the opposition especially their formation, style of tactic and their right fullback. Let me explain further...

(A) Facing opponents with Attacking Fullbacks and either on par or better than u.

Example Real Madrid with Sergio Ramos

For this match, i would use Forlan as the Left Striker. The alternative is Aguero but i'll explain why he isnt my first choice for this scenario.

Ramos being tremendously attacking minded and based on Real Madrid's formation of 4-2-2-2 with Ronaldo and Kaka cutting in from the flanks supported by 2 DMCs, the width is provided by the Fullbacks. Ronaldo and Kaka never track back at all and mostly occupy AMC positions when in possession.

The leaves the flank portions in their penalty area vacant. What i expect to happen is that when i regain possession, the central striker with his lower mentality would be playing between the strata of the 2 opposition DCs and their DMCs. The AI would normally play Stopper/Cover and such the Cover DC would play my left and right strikers onside while the Stopper marks the central striker.

With Forlan at the Left Striker i have a deadly weapon. Let me explain. To me, Forlan is tailored made for the scenario and this tactic. His relevant stats, 19 Finishing, 20 Long Shots, 17 Technique, Composure, Off the ball, Determination, Strength, Pace, Acceleration all above 15. Plus his PPMs, Shoot with power, Try longrange shots, Tries first time shots. Relatively 2 footed.

With these attributes Forlan has scored against the big teams for me consistently since the beginning of my career game, until i just offloaded him at the age of 33. Even so, he still scored 14 goals being used on a rotational basis or as an impact sub.

How it unfolds.... With acres of space down the flanks vacated by the opp. fullback bombing up the field, Forlan is available usually unmarked. Any quality ball into space would release him. With Forlan being relatively 2 footed, being out wide (but not hugging the line) he can either break the def line and head towards the near post or stay wide and go to the byline. More often than not, Forlan heads to goal due to his PPMs. He is trigger happy!

I noticed by default, most AI teams play the left DC as covering. That means he is further back to Forlan coming down from the left, ie. has to cover more ground to get across! With the other DC occupied by the central striker now arriving late down the middle and the 2 DMCs marking the 2 attacking MCs advancing its effectively a 2 on 1 scenario. Left and Right Strikers breaking against the Covering DC!

Covering DC has to make a choice. close down Forlan on the left and leave right striker unmarked? or try to a miracle worker and mark the passing lane between the left and right striker? Here is why i prefer to use Forlan on the left rather than on the right. Forlan being relatively 2 footed, does not need to shift the ball to his right for a shot. But if he has the space and time, he can also do so and shoot across the keeper. whereas if i use Aguero he will not shoot with his left foot and by shifting the ball to his right and then cutting in a bit more, the angle would be narrowed and the Covering DC and GK can make a stop.

Plus with Forlan's PPMs to try first time shots and shoot with power and try longrange shots, plus his super finishing stats, if the keeper rushes out and Covering DC stays in the middle to mark the passing lanes, Forlan can unlease a thumper to beat the keeper at the near post. If the keeper stays on his line, Forlan can shoot across him to the far post.

Great to kill the game, especially if the opposition is pushing men forward desperately.

__________

I'll share strategies for the other 3 strikers later and then also about the central striker strategy.

Great to hear your thoughts on the working of the tactics. You have definately offered some insights hat are very interesting to me.

I'd love to hear your thoughts on the situational decisions of what type of midfielders to play and when

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How do people alter there tactics in the instance of downpour? Unfortunately this a common occurrence in sunny England, and i personally think the tactic suffers for it.

My alterations currently are to set the passing to global, and all to the first notch of direct. This however appears to have average results, and doesnt seem to deal with the rain that much better than doing nothing

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Hey Mr Hough

First thing I need to say is that without you FM10 really wouldn't have happened. With FC United I have achieved 5 promotions in 7 years!

I just have a couple of questions to help me even further:

1) Did you use the tactic in the lower leagues at all?

2) When you search for players using the filters, how do you select from the results found? Do you rely on your scouts at all? Did you do so at lower league level?

I'd like to know what everyone else does as well if you don't mind!

Cheers

saab693

Comments please people

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I have used the 4-1-2-3 tactic from Blue Square North all the way up to the Premier League. For me it worked better in Coca Cola Championship and below.

because you need better players in premiership

just gi it time and get a back bone with really good quality, not saying likes of messi terry lampard's of this world but the likes of o'hara etc who dont get a game and get some player of his quality in on loan you'll do really good

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Hey Mr Hough

First thing I need to say is that without you FM10 really wouldn't have happened. With FC United I have achieved 5 promotions in 7 years!

I just have a couple of questions to help me even further:

1) Did you use the tactic in the lower leagues at all?

2) When you search for players using the filters, how do you select from the results found? Do you rely on your scouts at all? Did you do so at lower league level?

I'd like to know what everyone else does as well if you don't mind!

Cheers

saab693

Thanks for the compliment, I tested the Unbeaten Classic tactic wqith Blyth and was unbeaten in 16 games winning all, I use scouts but most for scouting young players, I rely on my player filters for searches.

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Thanks for the replies guys, really good! For anyone in doubt, I cannot overestimate how important this tactic is for both FM and the Community. It has made the game accessible for everyone and I do hope that Mr Hough is recognised for what he has achieved.

Out of interest mate, could you please provide a breakdown of stats levels for the filters for each division?

Ie premiership and championship 13

League 1 12 etc....

Cheers

Saab693

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I started a lower league game with Oxford in the blue square prem using the 10.3 classic. Acheived back to back promotions as champions to league 1.

35433232.png

54207074.png

Made no changes to the tactic so working very well with smaller teams. Cheers Mr Hough.

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see i use the Mr Hough and JP Woody version with arsenal, but i change the left striker (RVP) to a trequartista (sp?) the middle one (Chamakh/Eduardo) becomes an attacking complete forward and the right striker (Walcott) becomes a poacher, sitting top in the first season and RVP is banging them in whilst he is also top assister, walcott doesnt score many, but when he does its normally an important goal (away to man utd and chelsea for example) just like to say thanks to everyone who has worked with this tactic, its brilliant! :D

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Not a fan of wingers is he?! I'd like to see a Hough 442, just to see how he'd do it!

Mr Hough has already 'played' with a wingers tactic, but it hasn't been working too well in FM10.

This seems to have been a case for a lot of FMers.

I think TBH has had some success though.

Cheers,

Boony

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I started a lower league game with Oxford in the blue square prem using the 10.3 classic. Acheived back to back promotions as champions to league 1.

35433232.png

54207074.png

Made no changes to the tactic so working very well with smaller teams. Cheers Mr Hough.

Hi

where i can find your skin please?

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Hey!

First, I just want to tell you that I am a late-comer to this thread and have only had a week or so to try out your classic tactic. But I have to say it's really beastly. I know there aren't many people using it anymore, but for a weak Swansea side it's easily winning me the Championship. Anyway, my question is this -- do you think it would be feasible to switch the team tackling mentality to normal? I have a lot of soft goals let in because my players are not challenging for the ball. I think it would be better this way. Has there been any testing on this insofar as reduction of goals let in?

Also, since I don't really want to wade through 38 pages (I have managed 6), what is the general consensus on what tactic can be used for what situations? I think I'll scrap the classic tactic next season in the PL, as my games against PL opposition in the cups this year ended in heavy defeats. SO, what is the best one to use for a team that's really, really outclassed in a league?

Thanks for the thread, and as everyone has already said, it has helped immensely.

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Hey!

First, I just want to tell you that I am a late-comer to this thread and have only had a week or so to try out your classic tactic. But I have to say it's really beastly. I know there aren't many people using it anymore, but for a weak Swansea side it's easily winning me the Championship. Anyway, my question is this -- do you think it would be feasible to switch the team tackling mentality to normal? I have a lot of soft goals let in because my players are not challenging for the ball. I think it would be better this way. Has there been any testing on this insofar as reduction of goals let in?

Also, since I don't really want to wade through 38 pages (I have managed 6), what is the general consensus on what tactic can be used for what situations? I think I'll scrap the classic tactic next season in the PL, as my games against PL opposition in the cups this year ended in heavy defeats. SO, what is the best one to use for a team that's really, really outclassed in a league?

Thanks for the thread, and as everyone has already said, it has helped immensely.

Welcome to the thread, The unbeaten classic and the mr hough and JP woody tactics are the best and have had the most positive feedback and they are the ones i play with.

They are both essestially the same tactic but one is in the classic style of old and one in the new Wizard style.

When searching for players try and get players with the attributtes i have recommened in the search filters, They can be found in the OP aswell.

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Does anyone knows how to deal with the classic version tacitc(4-1-2-3) when some of my players get red cards? Should i reduce the number of my attacking players or just let it be?

Another question, which position is best to be asked to set pieces, the CM or the FRL?

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Not sure if you still have money but you should try Luis Suarez for the center striker position. He doesn't have the aerial power of Adriano or Dzeko or Cavani, but he has enough of it, plus he's quite a solid all around player in general. He is doing the business for my Cordoba team from that position.

i actually just sold off Adriano and Dzeko.

i brought in Jozy Altidore as central striker for 10mil

He scored 3 goals in a 5-0 aggregate victory over Barcelona in the spanish super cup.

Looking fab.

at only 22, and at least 15 for all the correct stats, he should be given a serious look at.

And he is 1.86m tall. Scored 2 goals in 3 from headers.

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I've been trying alot of other peoples tactics lately, Mainly to compare and see how they fair against mine or if there different formations see how they are working the player settings.

I seem to always go back to my Unbeaten Classic though, Maybe I'm biest but i still think it's the best all round tactic available.

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Great to hear your thoughts on the working of the tactics. You have definately offered some insights hat are very interesting to me.

I'd love to hear your thoughts on the situational decisions of what type of midfielders to play and when

for the midfielders, MC and DMC i think its really what quality u can afford.

what i mean is this, the best case scenarios are if u can get Steven Gerrald types for both MC slots and Essien types at DMC slot. But we all know that even with if u play with Man City, thats going to be tough. Not to mention i started with Atletico Madrid.

The players i have brought in and/or retained at the club are very varied. I use different combinations to match different oppositions. Let me first explain by breaking down my midfield players:

1) Joao Moutinho (Club captain)

Mental beast, fantastic physical stats and good technical stats.

1.74m tall, no good in the air. Decent in the tackle, better offensively but not a consistent scorer, although will score when given a CCC.

significant PPMs "Looks to pass rather than score"

2) Miguel Veloso

Fantastic technical stats, creative and decision making stats excellent. Decent physically.

1.80m tall, decent in the air. Decent in the tackle, better offensively as a deep lying play maker. Good free kick, penalty taking and long shot stats, including good composure

3) Felipe Melo

Good technical, mental and physical stats, especially first touch and composure.

1.84m tall, good in the air, good in the tackle. All round player, capable of attack and defend, though slightly skewed towards defence cos not a dribbler.

4) Ignacio Camacho

Good techical, mental and physical stats. Best defensive mental and technical midfielder i have.

1.78m tall, decent in the air though no height. Very good in the tackle. Better used in defence but can pass and control the ball effectively.

5) K Asamoah

Excellent Physical stats, real work horse player. Good techinical and mental creativity. Poor finishing though.

1.78m tall, poor in the air but good in the tackle. Passing is good, control is good, stamina, speed, strength, work rate, team work are strongest points

6) Raul Garcia

Good all round stats. Best dribbler and goal scoring stats.

1.85m tall, good in air, although not the best defensively.

Significant PPMs "Shoot with power" "Arrives late in Box"

7) Jack Rodwell

able to play central defence as well but with good technical stats, like passing, first touch.

Mental stats developing.

1.88m tall, very good in air. Able to pass as well

8) Sergiy Krystov

Central defender able to play in midfield. Limited techincal and creative skills. Very physical player.

1.86m tall, BEast in the air. Cannot find a pass or control the ball.

So above are the 8 players i used on rotation basis in central midfield, 2 MCs and 1 DMC.

all very different, all offering different options on how i want to dominate and control the midfield.

Next post will be what selections i make against what kinda oppositions.

Facing non-work horse, non-tenacious midfields but creative and attacking

Eg. Arsenal - Fabregas & Denilson

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I've been trying alot of other peoples tactics lately, Mainly to compare and see how they fair against mine or if there different formations see how they are working the player settings.

I seem to always go back to my Unbeaten Classic though, Maybe I'm biest but i still think it's the best all round tactic available.

so you have give up the 4-1-2-1-2 prospect??? I admit that the 4-3-3 unbeatable tactic is by far the best but the 4-1-2-1-2 i play tweaking your tactics is working fine for me.... maybe you should try it finally

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Facing non-work horse, non-tenacious midfields but creative and attacking

Eg. Arsenal - Fabregas & Denilson

I often play Arsenal and their young gunners in the Champions League, usually in the knockout stages. They play an attacking 4-4-2 with plenty of flair and movement. To maximise their attacking potentcy, they usually play without a midfield enforcer, prefering to use a deep-lying playmaker (Denilson) together with an Attacking midfielder (Fabregas).

To further assist in the link up play, they use a Ball-playing defender (Vermaelen) and a deep lying forward (Bendnter) to play between the stratas.

To combat this team and tactic, let me focus on the defensive aspect and considerations i take first.

1) their 2 MCs are very creative, good off the ball and get into the box to score (Fabregas especially) But they are not physical and not ball winners.

I look to turn their attacking focus into their weakness by selecting 2 midfield enforcers to kick lumps into them and bully them into submission. 1st choice for this task are K Asamoah and Ignacio Camacho. Both these players are pit bulls in the tackle and are the new-age Gatuso type players, able to deliver crunching tackles and man-mark opposition players out of the game. What these players lack aerially, they more than make up in speed, position sense and stamina and work rate.

Up against Fabregas and Denilson and against Arsenal, i wont be facing long punt balls but rather short one touch passing. Tenancious man-marking is the way to combat this rather than intelligient Zonal defence. U need punishers!

2) Ball playing defender (Vermaelen)

Being pit bulls, K Asmamoah and Camacho will also be able to close down the Ball Playing Defender should he attempt to bring the ball out of defence. Put under quick pressure, should he attempt to punt the ball down field, my DMC will be there to intercept. If he tries to dribble past, he is in danger of being tackled. Should he attempt a cheeky short pass to the midfielders, he will have to avoid the interception of the other MC lying in wait.

I love the Attacking mentality for the MCs because they get into the box and stay higher up the pitch after loosing possession. Any defender foolish enough to carry the ball, will be in tackling range.. hahha

3) Deep lying forward (Bendtner)

This guy is technically skilled and very good in the air. If i used either of my natural DMCs, K Asamoah or Camacho against him at DMC, i would be slaughtered! Bendtner is deceptively quick on his feet and being 1.90m tall with long strides, he would leave my DMC for dead with a quick turn.

With Fabregas looking to run beyond the forwards, another threat could be Bendtner holding up the ball, and playing a late arriving Fabregas through on goal. I cannot allow thaT!

To combat this, i use Jack Rodwell. Being 1.88m tall he is a big strong lad, who wont lose a battle in the air easily. Physically he is quick strong and agile, a real physical specimen who will be able to match Bendtner in the air on on the ground.

But Rodwell is not a lumbering lump of muscle. He also has a good head on his shoulders. MC like mental stats and technical stats make him a rather complete DMC player. Should he disposses Bendtner, he is able to control the ball effectively and make the right defensive/offensive decision. He is not prone to the 'thumb' it up syndrome or try to dribble the ball with Bendtner close to him, or attempt a dangerous back pass with Fabregas or Van Persie lurking.

I wont use Sergiy Krystov here, cos he has absolutely no ball skills. He would be played like a fool by Arsenal. I would rather play Pique at DMC, even if he is out of position. Krystov is useful playing against Kevin Davies (Bolton) type players and teams.

Next up the Offensive considerations, this selection has

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I've been trying alot of other peoples tactics lately, Mainly to compare and see how they fair against mine or if there different formations see how they are working the player settings.

I seem to always go back to my Unbeaten Classic though, Maybe I'm biest but i still think it's the best all round tactic available.

Do you make any tweaks to it depending on home or away, strength of the opposition etc?

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I've been trying alot of other peoples tactics lately, Mainly to compare and see how they fair against mine or if there different formations see how they are working the player settings.

I seem to always go back to my Unbeaten Classic though, Maybe I'm biest but i still think it's the best all round tactic available.

What one is the unbeaten classic. it isn't the original classic is it?

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i've been losing a few games on the trot.

i started my game as brighton, i was using the 10.3 final version.

i won league 1 in my first season. i was winning the championship but i decided to try out the jp woody version and slipped into the play offs, switched back to the final 10.3 and lost in the play off final! the next season i stuck to the 10.3 final and won the championship.

now my first season in the EPL, i was still using the 10.3 final but started getting hammered, most probably because of the gap in class of my players and the prmeriership players. i changed back to the jp woody version and it started to pick up again, i'm now 12th with 19 games gone. but i've lost about 4 on the bounce and the media are criticising me for not changing tactics, what should i do? revert back to the 10.3 final? stick it out with jp woody?

also, i've taken the USA job, i've been manager of algeria and nigeria already in this save game and the tactic hasn't worked well at all at international level, any tips on international management with these tactics?

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Thanks for the replies guys, really good! For anyone in doubt, I cannot overestimate how important this tactic is for both FM and the Community. It has made the game accessible for everyone and I do hope that Mr Hough is recognised for what he has achieved.

Out of interest mate, could you please provide a breakdown of stats levels for the filters for each division?

Ie premiership and championship 13

League 1 12 etc....

Cheers

Saab693

Any comments guys?

Just wondering more about these filters. I have started a game and according to the player filters, I should be playing Keita and Busquets in midfield instead pf Xaxi and Iniesta!

Mr Hough, would they in fact be better suited to the tactic then?

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Mr Hough

I hope you haven't given up on the 41212 ????

Its a cracking tactic, with the only problem being that the strikers don't score most of the goals.

Steve

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I hope you can release your 4-1-2-1-2 soon MR. H! It's with one Attacking Midfielder right? I kinda need one tactic with 1 or 2 Attacking midfielders, to use when I enter a team that has AM's. Right now I have this tactic for teams without any AM's, and I do have a tactic for AML&AMR's aswell - But I do not have any for AMC.

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Wow this is weird.The latest tactic that always worked for me(not the 41212)stoped working for me.

Now I draw and lose against teams I had to crash them and I'm talking on the beggining of the season and not after some massive amount of games.

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@up, it was allready relased. For some people it worked and for some it didnt.

OH! I must have missed that.. I just did see further up in this page he worked on it. Can you give me the DL-link to the released version then? Or tell me the way to it?

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I'm sorry, but I've had a gander through and couldn't find the 4-4-2 version of this, I think it might have been made by TBH. If anyone would be as so kind to link me to the post, I'd be grateful :)

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i've been losing a few games on the trot.

i started my game as brighton, i was using the 10.3 final version.

i won league 1 in my first season. i was winning the championship but i decided to try out the jp woody version and slipped into the play offs, switched back to the final 10.3 and lost in the play off final! the next season i stuck to the 10.3 final and won the championship.

now my first season in the EPL, i was still using the 10.3 final but started getting hammered, most probably because of the gap in class of my players and the prmeriership players. i changed back to the jp woody version and it started to pick up again, i'm now 12th with 19 games gone. but i've lost about 4 on the bounce and the media are criticising me for not changing tactics, what should i do? revert back to the 10.3 final? stick it out with jp woody?

also, i've taken the USA job, i've been manager of algeria and nigeria already in this save game and the tactic hasn't worked well at all at international level, any tips on international management with these tactics?

I'd stick with the Mr. Hough & JP Woody version if I were you. Especially in your first season in the EPL, and perhaps even your second. It's a better version defensively partly due to it's narrowness, so it should suit smaller teams better. The other versions, like the Classic Original or the Unbeaten Classic have more width to them, which can be dangerous when you don't have players of a certain quality level.

I can tell you from my experience that it's quite possible to finish in top 10 or even top 6 in your first season after getting promoted. I did it in Spain with Cordoba. After being promoted, I finished 3rd in my first season in La Liga, using the Mr. Hough & JP Woody version.

It's is quite important to use the player filters Mr. Hough provided, but also keep in mind that there's no substitute for overall quality. So if you have a player that only fits the filters, but has no other good stats, and then you have a player that also fits the filters, but has other stats on top of it that are good, then obviously the second player would be better. Now, there's the money issue. You most likely wont be able to buy any real quality in your first season in EPL. I know I didn't in my career. However, you can find some good loans and free players, or just some good bargains here and there.

Any comments guys?

Just wondering more about these filters. I have started a game and according to the player filters, I should be playing Keita and Busquets in midfield instead pf Xaxi and Iniesta!

Mr Hough, would they in fact be better suited to the tactic then?

This is an instance in which you should go against the filters and use the players that are actually better overall. Iniesta and Xavi are obviously better players. They fit the filters for the most part except in their defensive stats. Neither one is a great tackler, but that's ok in this case. However, make sure to have a good, solid DMC behind them, like Yaya Toure.

The thing is, since you're Barca, you have so much overall quality everywhere, that you can get away with not having players that fit the filters precisely. Some deviation is allowed in this regard. For example, when I played with Milan, I had Pirlo as one of the MCs even though he didn't fit the filters completely. He played just fine, no problem.

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about the filters, i had a quick look at them to begin with. but later on, i began to analysis the opposition tactics and players and then make my selection.

Xavi and Iniesta are top top players but they could prove to be rendered ineffective if they dont suit the opposition players and tactics their facing.

A good example is how Barcelona struggled and effentually lost to Inter Milan in last season's champions league, by insisting in using their regular midfield and regular tactic.

Inter changed things up and then won.

Hi, saab693, u might want to take a look at my previous posts #3779 and #3781 for how i select which midfielders for this great tactic.

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What a second season I have had with Dinamo Kiev! Here is the league table:

ukrainianpremierleague.jpg

This is officially the most successful season I have ever had in my CM/FM history.

I also got into the final of the Europa Cup:

arsenalvdinamokievfinal.jpg

Absolutely gutted that we didn't win! We certainly had much more chances than Arsenal, but hopefully I can build on this for my third season in charge.

Oh and the tactic i'm using is Mr Hough's latest 41212.

Steve

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Strengths:

Outnumbers 4-3-3 systems in the midfield

Versatile system with many attacking options.

Weaknesses:

Can be outnumbered in the midfield by a 3-5-2. This forces a central defender to step up causing problems to the flat 4 zonal system.

Susceptible to counter attacks when Fullbacks extend too far

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