This Is Exactly The Kind Of Thing That Ruins FM

[crouchaldinho]

A fair point Neji.

Good luck getting that fish out of your pants. Sounds tricky.

C.

[cf]

I can concede that it would help if the game had a facility where Hammer, and other poor managers, could ask "what's going wrong?" and the ass man or other coaches could say, "Your players are over-confident," or "the players are suffering from fatigue" or "the players are not confident they can continue over-achieving in this way" so he can adapt his tactics/team talks/press conferences to halt the slide.

Yes to this. The assistant manager does give advice now, but it could do with a lot of expanding and improvement. The backroom staff meetings are an excellent medium for providing the player with information. Perhaps a post-match meeting could be introduced.

I'm not convinced another forum is what's needed, the advice needs to be 'in-game'.

[phnompenhandy]

A backroom meeting for post-match analysis. Cool.

[totalfootball]

What exactly are you complaining about?

They beat you because they scored more goals, they created more chances (ie. they were perhaps tactically better) and because they have better players. Add too the fact that they have the home advantage, and presumably confidence in their ability to beat a team who'd just lost to inferior opposition.

:confused:

85% - 90% condition isn't bad at all for the end of season, and if you wanted it to have much of an impact you'd need to play in a way as to frustrate and wear them out sooner, or at least gone on the attack nearing the end.

hahahaha, u must be joking right?

[Hershie]

hahahaha, u must be joking right?

Nope, deadly serious thanks.

Starto?

[dking]

What on earth are you complaining about, hammer? sure its frustrating, but isnt that football?

You came close to getting into the champs league and you blew it. There is no underlying conspiracy, the game isn't out to get you or your team. You were not quite good enough to make it and thats the bottom line.

Good luck next season!

[totalfootball]

Nope, deadly serious thanks.

Starto?

sounds like you are. dont know what starto is?

[totalfootball]

What on earth are you complaining about, hammer? sure its frustrating, but isnt that football?

You came close to getting into the champs league and you blew it. There is no underlying conspiracy, the game isn't out to get you or your team. You were not quite good enough to make it and thats the bottom line.

Good luck next season!

you can see what he is complaining about, that is outlined in his post, and backed up with screenshots as evidence. so if you ask the question "what r u complaining about?" go and re-read his post. dont be lazy.

[Hammer1000]

Let me just point out a few things here.

1. Replaying games - My brother used to do this if he thought he was cheated out of a particular game, this was before he realised that further along the line the game would even things out and he would still drop the points he was meant to have dropped previously.

Of course you could cheat every game, but even that is not a given, look how many times people have posted that they had replayed games 30+ times all with different tactics and players and still not won, even if they were the heavy favourites

2. The game DOES cheat, maybe not in the sense that it decides to give teams super keepers or deliberately turns your world class striker into a idiot, but it is still cheating nonethless.

How? well first off the AI is fed all the information needed to know how to react to situations, i'm not saying that it is party to all the information at all times, because then you would never win a game, but it IS programmed to respond in a certain manner.

We as human managers are not privvy to this information, we have to learn it, but thats where it all goes wrong. We have to learn by watching the ME but how do we do that? how do we know what is wrong tactically when we concede goal after goal from 30 yards with two or more defenders in position to close down the shot, or when a little striker gets above your big defender to score yet another headed corner, or when your defender blasts the ball against his own man and the ricochet puts the opposing striker one on one, or when your keeper with options available will not pass the ball until the opposing striker nicks it off his feet, i can literally go on all night.

How do AI Managers get even the poorest of teams to play the kind of football Brazil would be proud of? easy, its because they have far too much information available that we do not have and they can set there tactics to amost perfection because they know HOW to do it.

Whatever part of the game that calculates just how much info of this kind the AI is privvy too is unbalanced,in the sense that however little/much is deemed available based on the quality of the AI's players and managers etc, it is still way too much compared with what we have to work with.

Until this is sorted out and the ME and feedback vastly improved this game is always going to be frustrating and annoying and FM'ers will continue to look for that killer tactic that takes advantage of the ME for eighty minutes at least and then a shut up shop tactic that can largely give them the ability to see out games.

I have not seen testimony from a single FM'er that convinces me that there is ANYONE out there who really knows what they are doing? just have a look at the T&T Forum if you dont believe me, yes there is help available for certain situations and a shed load of plug and play tactics, but nothing with any real depth that gives any real clarity regarding reading the ME and making the relevant changes that can turn the game in your favour or like the AI does help you wallop a team for the last 10-15 minutes when in need of a goal.

SI cannot go on pretending this is a sophisticated game when the ME is in such turmoil and there is not a single feature without major issues.

SI seem to think people want to be spoonfed the winning formula, but i dont think this is true(or if it is it is based solely on the frustration of a complete lack of info and feedback) they just want a level playing field a decent ME and features that work, i dont think that is too much to ask, but they have not even gotten close to it in the last few versions of the game.

[Kees04]

Look at Tottenham this season, against Stoke, Everton & Wolves, had superior shots, dominted match and better possession, but only got 1 point from 9. Seems realistic to me.

If you look at the stats for the Tottenham - Wolves game from the weekend, you'll see a game dominated by Tottenham, but in fact we didn't deserve a win from that game.

[dafuge]

Of course you could cheat every game, but even that is not a given, look how many times people have posted that they had replayed games 30+ times all with different tactics and players and still not won, even if they were the heavy favourites

Reminds me of this thread:

30 time reload, but you can't win

Although it was quite quickly proven that it was possible to win the match.

[Hammer1000]

Look at Tottenham this season, against Stoke, Everton & Wolves, had superior shots, dominted match and better possession, but only got 1 point from 9. Seems realistic to me.

If you look at the stats for the Tottenham - Wolves game from the weekend, you'll see a game dominated by Tottenham, but in fact we didn't deserve a win from that game.

I dont know if this post is aimed at me or not? but if it is i do not find it at all relevant.

[Hammer1000]

Reminds me of this thread:

30 time reload, but you can't win

Although it was quite quickly proven that it was possible to win the match.

I'm not disputing it mate, all i think is that in non coding terms the game is practically saying "if you have to cheat fair enough you can have the win" but like in my brothers case if you were not doing this EVERY match the game would make up for it further down the line.

[Celtic_1967]

I'm not disputing it mate, all i think is that in non coding terms the game is practically saying "if you have to cheat fair enough you can have the win" but like in my brothers case if you were not doing this EVERY match the game would make up for it further down the line.

That's nonsense. It's a game. It doesn't know when it's been restarted, it's just lines of code. It doesn't sit there thinking

'He's turned me off because he lost and then he won, better make sure he drops points against 20th place on the last day of the season.'

The game is what it is. If you don't like it then (for the third time), DONT BUY IT and DONT PLAY IT. It is really very very simple.

[peter-evo]

Hammer. You actually provide no evidence in any of your posts and you just make long ramblings making wild suggestions to explain why your team is losing.

I suggest you put FM2010 back in it's case, and sell it, because you're clearly getting no fun out of the game.

[Neji]

I'm not disputing it mate, all i think is that in non coding terms the game is practically saying "if you have to cheat fair enough you can have the win" but like in my brothers case if you were not doing this EVERY match the game would make up for it further down the line.

No data is kept from the game if it isn't saved, so how does it know you've reloaded?

[Just-Wool]

Why is it that every single time someone seems to lose an important game after having reasonably good form, not really anything special it's a bug?

Do you think that much of yourself that you can't take responsibility for things happening like this?

[PaulC]

Let me just point out a few things here.

1. Replaying games - My brother used to do this if he thought he was cheated out of a particular game, this was before he realised that further along the line the game would even things out and he would still drop the points he was meant to have dropped previously.

Of course you could cheat every game, but even that is not a given, look how many times people have posted that they had replayed games 30+ times all with different tactics and players and still not won, even if they were the heavy favourites

2. The game DOES cheat, maybe not in the sense that it decides to give teams super keepers or deliberately turns your world class striker into a idiot, but it is still cheating nonethless.

How? well first off the AI is fed all the information needed to know how to react to situations, i'm not saying that it is party to all the information at all times, because then you would never win a game, but it IS programmed to respond in a certain manner.

We as human managers are not privvy to this information, we have to learn it, but thats where it all goes wrong. We have to learn by watching the ME but how do we do that? how do we know what is wrong tactically when we concede goal after goal from 30 yards with two or more defenders in position to close down the shot, or when a little striker gets above your big defender to score yet another headed corner, or when your defender blasts the ball against his own man and the ricochet puts the opposing striker one on one, or when your keeper with options available will not pass the ball until the opposing striker nicks it off his feet, i can literally go on all night.

How do AI Managers get even the poorest of teams to play the kind of football Brazil would be proud of? easy, its because they have far too much information available that we do not have and they can set there tactics to amost perfection because they know HOW to do it.

Whatever part of the game that calculates just how much info of this kind the AI is privvy too is unbalanced,in the sense that however little/much is deemed available based on the quality of the AI's players and managers etc, it is still way too much compared with what we have to work with.

Until this is sorted out and the ME and feedback vastly improved this game is always going to be frustrating and annoying and FM'ers will continue to look for that killer tactic that takes advantage of the ME for eighty minutes at least and then a shut up shop tactic that can largely give them the ability to see out games.

I have not seen testimony from a single FM'er that convinces me that there is ANYONE out there who really knows what they are doing? just have a look at the T&T Forum if you dont believe me, yes there is help available for certain situations and a shed load of plug and play tactics, but nothing with any real depth that gives any real clarity regarding reading the ME and making the relevant changes that can turn the game in your favour or like the AI does help you wallop a team for the last 10-15 minutes when in need of a goal.

SI cannot go on pretending this is a sophisticated game when the ME is in such turmoil and there is not a single feature without major issues.

SI seem to think people want to be spoonfed the winning formula, but i dont think this is true(or if it is it is based solely on the frustration of a complete lack of info and feedback) they just want a level playing field a decent ME and features that work, i dont think that is too much to ask, but they have not even gotten close to it in the last few versions of the game.

Garry, please do us all a favour and stop playing the game with the sole intention of coming on here to create this kind of thread.

If you dont like it, dont buy it.

Your rants about the game "cheating" are embarrasingly innacurate and make you look paranoid. If you post ill thought out nonsense on these forums you can only ever expect to be ripped for it.

[dking]

you can see what he is complaining about, that is outlined in his post, and backed up with screenshots as evidence. so if you ask the question "what r u complaining about?" go and re-read his post. dont be lazy.

Dont be pedantic and dont troll.

Screen shots of what? liverpool beating burnely 5-0? losing to man city 3-0 after being totally outplayed? outplaying a team and losing 1-0?

All screenshot evidence, as you put it, just points to the fact that the team wasn't quite good enough. Maybe that is hard for you to get your head around. Which leads me to my next point. Do you struggle with the game? i think maybe you do, so why dont you stop trolling and head on over to the tactics forums, or should i say, go read the tactics forums. Dont be lazy.

[Hammer1000]

Hammer. You actually provide no evidence in any of your posts and you just make long ramblings making wild suggestions to explain why your team is losing.

I suggest you put FM2010 back in it's case, and sell it, because you're clearly getting no fun out of the game.

The Forum is full of any evidence that you need, if you take off your blinkers for a change.

The polls showed that an extraordinary amount of people dont get the tactical side of the game at all and even if they did they only go it so much as they had found things that worked and not because they understood why.

The polls also showed an massive amount of FM'ers that wanted a "Diablo" type tactic, i personally voted no because i dont want a win every game tactic, i just want to be on a level par with the AI and know why i'm making certain decisions instead of it all being based on guesswork, either my own or somebody else's on the Forum.

If you can show me 1 person that knows just what they are doing and why they are doing it against 100 people that dont have a clue then you may have a point however slight, but all EVIDENCE suggests that such people in the know are so few and far between, in fact like i said before i have yet to come across even ONE.

[Just-Wool]

So your whole argument is based on a lot of people on the forum who don't know tactics and would rather have a super win everything tactic rather than play a game how it's supposed to be played?

This would be on a par with people who keep dying on MW2 and want a mode where they don't die at all.

[Hammer1000]

Garry, please do us all a favour and stop playing the game with the sole intention of coming on here to create this kind of thread.

If you dont like it, dont buy it.

Your rants about the game "cheating" are embarrasingly innacurate and make you look paranoid. If you post ill thought out nonsense on these forums you can only ever expect to be ripped for it.

If you really think i play the game for this reason who's the paranoid one?

What is so inaccurate about pointing out that the AI is privvy to more info than the Human Player? even Richie has stated that there are still problems with the info and feedback human managers get so just how far out am i?

As for being embarrased, should'nt that be you for releasing a game every October that is largely unplayable until the following February.

Are you completely unaware of the poor feedback this game has received or do you just let it all go over your head as you sit there counting your millions that mugs like me have made you for your shoddy product?

I expect your reply to be a ban, but then maybe your balls are bigger than that who knows?

[Hammer1000]

Will people please stop going on about the Wolves results, the issues i raise are so much bigger than that.

[anagain]

In all seriousness i'm not sure there are any good points?

They get the team and player names about right and after that i dont think there is a single feature that works properly?

If anyone can suggest a feature that they think works without fault then i'd like to know what it is?

Well why do you keep playing season after season, then?

I may have replied to some of your posts in the past but as of late I have left them alone. Now you come on to say there are no good points to the game, yet you have played at least 2 whole seasons with Wolves and done well until the end. Were you disappointed with the game when you were flying high in mid-season?

When PaulC refers to you as Garry it makes me wonder if you're a dev at Championship Manager and maybe used to work at SI or something. I don't know the history.

Do you just play the game to find faults? If so, then at least find some proper ones instead of unsubstantiated conspiracy theories.

And learn to accept judgement.

[totalfootball]

Garry, please do us all a favour and stop playing the game with the sole intention of coming on here to create this kind of thread.

If you dont like it, dont buy it.

Your rants about the game "cheating" are embarrasingly innacurate and make you look paranoid. If you post ill thought out nonsense on these forums you can only ever expect to be ripped for it.

Being impartial here, Hammer made his statement and backed it up, you just deny his statement with no evidence or reason.

[peter-evo]

Considering I am playing the game without issue. I would say it is playable. So I have already proved your 'unplayable' argument wrong.

[peter-evo]

Being impartial here, Hammer made his statement and backed it up, you just deny his statement with no evidence or reason.

He didn't. He showed us a few screenshots of a match that he lost and used that as evidence for cheating.

[cf]

The polls showed that an extraordinary amount of people dont get the tactical side of the game at all and even if they did they only go it so much as they had found things that worked and not because they understood why.

The polls also showed an massive amount of FM'ers that wanted a "Diablo" type tactic, i personally voted no because i dont want a win every game tactic, i just want to be on a level par with the AI and know why i'm making certain decisions instead of it all being based on guesswork, either my own or somebody else's on the Forum.

If you can show me 1 person that knows just what they are doing and why they are doing it against 100 people that dont have a clue then you may have a point however slight, but all EVIDENCE suggests that such people in the know are so few and far between, in fact like i said before i have yet to come across even ONE.

As far as I'm concerned this is a very valid point. I'm confused about the claims of the game 'cheating' and whether it relates to this though.

[rocky0]

Hammer, you say look on the forums and there is all the proof that anyone would need to see that there are problems?? How about you look on the other side of that statement. There are many, many people who are not having these issues that you claim make the game unplayable. When they say they are not having issues, you basically say that since they dont agree with your points that they are wrong. You told peter-evo to take off his blinkers, why dont you do the same.

If the game is so unplayable, how is it that so many people, my self included, are playing it and enjoying it?? That must mean we are all wrong and only those that agree with you are right. Are there issues in the game, yes there are. Is SI doing the best they can to fix those issues, yes they are. Im sorry you dont enojy the game and hopefully someday you will.

Sadly after reading your posts, I dont think you ever will

[Hammer1000]

Considering I am playing the game without issue. I would say it is playable. So I have already proved your 'unplayable' argument wrong.

You prove nothing fella and your posts are just pathetic and pointless, i have a whole Forum backing my argument whether they personally agree with me or not, your on a lame power trip and living on another planet!

[totalfootball]

You prove nothing fella and your posts are just pathetic and pointless, i have a whole Forum backing my argument whether they personally agree with me or not, your on a lame power trip and living on another planet!

not a whole forum, but maybe 30-40%

[Hammer1000]

Hammer, you say look on the forums and there is all the proof that anyone would need to see that there are problems?? How about you look on the other side of that statement. There are many, many people who are not having these issues that you claim make the game unplayable. When they say they are not having issues, you basically say that since they dont agree with your points that they are wrong. You told peter-evo to take off his blinkers, why dont you do the same.

If the game is so unplayable, how is it that so many people, my self included, are playing it and enjoying it?? That must mean we are all wrong and only those that agree with you are right. Are there issues in the game, yes there are. Is SI doing the best they can to fix those issues, yes they are. Im sorry you dont enojy the game and hopefully someday you will.

Sadly after reading your posts, I dont think you ever will

Rocky - Without trying you prove my point and your not the only one. Yes there are those that swear they have no issues and dont see the problems others are having, yet even SI admit to many of these issues so to even the slightly intelligent that tells you that these people really have no clue what they are talking about.

Cheers

[rocky0]

As I said, those that dont agree with you in your eyes will always be wrong.

You just proved my point

[Hammer1000]

As I said, those that dont agree with you in your eyes will always be wrong.

You just proved my point

Of course they are wrong if SI have already admitted an issue that they claim is not in their particular game.

Think about it

[peter-evo]

You prove nothing fella and your posts are just pathetic and pointless, i have a whole Forum backing my argument whether they personally agree with me or not, your on a lame power trip and living on another planet!

*you're

And no. There is no piece of software on the market that doesn't have issues. Not one. So why on earth do you expect FM to be any different. I am playing FM2010 and am really enjoying it. More-so than any other version. So you saying that you have a whole forum backing you up is just jibberish talk.

[Hammer1000]

*you're

And no. There is no piece of software on the market that doesn't have issues. Not one. So why on earth do you expect FM to be any different. I am playing FM2010 and am really enjoying it. More-so than any other version. So you saying that you have a whole forum backing you up is just jibberish talk.

See how you have to pick up on my grammar to deflect the fact that you add absolutely nothing intelligent to the discussion

Well done!

[Oba Martins]

oh dear this thread is going nowhere

[peter-evo]

See how you have to pick up on my grammar to deflect the fact that you add absolutely nothing intelligent to the discussion

Well done!

Missing out my second point because you've got nothing to say.

Well done.

[Vandalay]

You prove nothing fella and your posts are just pathetic and pointless, i have a whole Forum backing my argument whether they personally agree with me or not, your on a lame power trip and living on another planet!

I direct you to this thread, proving that the majority of the forum don't find the game unplayable.

http://community.sigames.com/poll.php?do=showresults&pollid=1095

[Vandalay]

Rocky - Without trying you prove my point and your not the only one. Yes there are those that swear they have no issues and dont see the problems others are having, yet even SI admit to many of these issues so to even the slightly intelligent that tells you that these people really have no clue what they are talking about.

Cheers

Why exactly would anyone pretend they are happy with a game?

[Seftinho]

Tbh, get over it. **** happens. It is just a game after all. And you can't say it's unrealistic. The pressure just got to them, much like with Villa and Hull last season IRL.

In FM09 I'd taken Leeds to the Championship, and we'd managed to nab 2nd place with a game to go. Two points ahead of West Ham, IIRC, with the same goal different. In the last game, we were 1-0 up, before Derby (I think) grabbed an equaliser with about a minute of the 90 to go. We then scored deep into stoppage time, only to have it disallowed for offside. So we drew 1-1, I checked the scores, and found out that West Ham had won their match to take the promotion spot. We ended up losing the play-offs in the semis.

It's incredibly frustating at first, you might hit something and shout for a bit (I did), but eventually you realise it is just a game, just relax, start the new season and try to achieve what you missed out on last season. No need to rant about it and claim it "ruins" the entire game.

[crouchaldinho]

garry, please do us all a favour and stop playing the game with the sole intention of coming on here to create this kind of thread.

If you dont like it, dont buy it.

Your rants about the game "cheating" are embarrassingly inaccurate and make you look paranoid. If you post ill thought out nonsense on these forums you can only ever expect to be ripped for it.

Amen!!!!

[crouchaldinho]

oh dear this thread is going nowhere

It's another one of Hammer's threads. It was never going to go anywhere!

[peter-evo]

CUT TH3 Abuuuse Crouchy!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!11

and I love how you have to turn to insults because you can't back up your points

[Ty]

What an epic failure of a thread. Cannot believe I just read it to be fair

[crouchaldinho]

If you can show me 1 person that knows just what they are doing and why they are doing it against 100 people that dont have a clue then you may have a point however slight, but all EVIDENCE suggests that such people in the know are so few and far between, in fact like i said before i have yet to come across even ONE.

Where do you get this stuff from? :confused: Plenty of people know what they are doing Hammer. It's just you who doesn't.

You prove nothing fella and your posts are just pathetic and pointless, i have a whole Forum backing my argument whether they personally agree with me or not, your on a lame power trip and living on another planet!

You really don't. I think most of us just sigh each time we spot a new thread written by you.

Time for you to have a cooling off period Hammer. Take some time away, read a few books, maybe go outside occasionally. Whatever you do, don't play FM!

C.

[Hammer1000]

I direct you to this thread, proving that the majority of the forum don't find the game unplayable.

http://community.sigames.com/poll.php?do=showresults&pollid=1095

Now i'm at the point where i feel i have to answer every pointless post.

My argument/s are not that everyone agrees with me that the game is unplayable and never was.

Lets try to look at this from another perspective

I finished 8th and then 5th with Wolves not having a single clue what i'm doing and why i'm doing it.

How that constitutes as a good and enjoyable game i have no clue?

I'd rather have finished 20th and known why.

[backpackant]

The genuine problems are well known - the long-range stuff, the marking, etc. So I think it's pretty clear by now that pointing out a) what Hammer is doing wrong, b) possible reasons for poor performance, and c) any hint of proof that he is wrong, any of these things will fall on deaf ears and/or deliberately misunderstood. It's utterly pointless.

Look at the comments about reloading - no one is suggesting you get around the problems by cheating, just pointing out that IF the game was programmed to make you lose certain games then reloading would not work. But it does. Proof.

Simple, right? Apparently not, it's the game saying "if you have to cheat, okay, you can win then", despite the fact that the game doesn't know you've reloaded.

That alone shows the state of Hammer's mind.

You have your opinion, fine. You need need need the attention and will not change your opinion no matter what.

The game isn't perfect, but you get so frustrated by non-existant issues that your life will be so much happier if you simply stop playing the game. From what I've read on this thread, you will never be satisfied, no matter what SI do with the game.

[peter-evo]

Now i'm at the point where i feel i have to answer every pointless post.

My argument/s are not that everyone agrees with me that the game is unplayable and never was.

Lets try to look at this from another perspective

I finished 8th and then 5th with Wolves not having a single clue what i'm doing and why i'm doing it.

How that constitutes as a good and enjoyable game i have no clue?

I'd rather have finished 20th and known why.

You said you had a forum backing it. You don't.

[Vandalay]

Now i'm at the point where i feel i have to answer every pointless post.

My argument/s are not that everyone agrees with me that the game is unplayable and never was.

Lets try to look at this from another perspective

I finished 8th and then 5th with Wolves not having a single clue what i'm doing and why i'm doing it.

How that constitutes as a good and enjoyable game i have no clue?

I'd rather have finished 20th and known why.

You dismissed Peter Evo's post that the game was playable because you had an entire forum backing you, this is clearly not true.

Or exactly what Peter Evo said.