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rekluse

Rekluse's 2010 Training Schedules By Position

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reklusestrainingbyposit.jpg

Download: http://www.filefront.com/16759521/klundstraining.zip

These are training schedules I created for 2010 based on the position roles and duties introduced in this years game. Each schedule is tweaked based on the attributes highlighted for each role and duty listed on the tactical screen, then weighted based on which training routines raise the more important attributes for that position. These have been tested on top flight teams only, with Valencia, Aston Villa, Willem II and Frankfurt. Lower league teams may need to lower the fitness training a bit for specific schedules, like Target Man for example which has higher fitness training than the other striker schedules.

These schedules work year round without the need to tweak schedules for pre-season or post-season. If certain players are becoming increasingly tired throughout the season, especially towards the end of a season, they should be rested and/or placed in a schedule with less strenuous fitness training.

The following is a list of the training schedules:

ST = Striker

Complete Forward

Advanced Forward

Target Man

Poacher

Trequartista

Deep Forward - Attack

Deep Forward - Support

Defensive Forward

W = Winger

Inside Forward - Attack

Inside Forward - Support

Advanced Playmaker - Attack

Advanced Playmaker - Support

Winger

Wide Midfielder

M = Midfielder

Inside Forward - Attack

Inside Forward - Support

Advanced Playmaker - Attack

Advanced Playmaker - Support

Deep Playmaker - Support

Deep Playmaker - Defend

Box to Box

Ball Winner

Central Midfielder

DM = Defensive Midfielder

Defensive Midfielder

Anchor Man

D = Defender

Wing Back

Full Back

Central Defender

GK = Goalkeeper

Goalkeeper

Youth training is handled differently. Based on the position there are different schedules, one which is either strength or aerobic heavy, one which is less fitness heavy but more skill heavy and then one balanced schedule. Full Back schedules however are either for attacking full backs, defending full backs or a balance.

The rotation I have been using for youth players is the following:

I. 3 months in a fitness heavy schedule for their position at the start of the season

II. Followed by 6 months in a balanced schedule

III. Then ending with 3 months in a skill heavy schedule for the latter parts of the season and off-season

These are general guidelines, I have certain players that I keep in fitness heavy schedules for 9 months of the year and others which I keep in skill heavy schedules, it depends on the type of player your trying to develop.

Rotating them into these fitness heavy schedules has worked progressively better in my save games than keeping them in a balanced schedule year round.

Youth Training:

F = Forward

Strength

Aerobic

Skill

Balance

W = Winger

Aerobic

Skill

Balance

AM = Attacking Midfielder

Skill

Balance

M = Midfielder

Aerobic

Strength

Skill

Balance

DM = Defensive Midfielder

Strength

Skill

Balance

FB = Full Back

Defending

Attacking

Balance

DC = Central Defender

Strength

Skill

Balance

GK = Goalkeeper

Fitness

Skill

Balance

TO INSTALL:

Download the zip, extract, and place both .tsh files in the folder located in My Documents > Sports Interactive > Football Manager 2010 > schedules

When in game go to schedules > manage schedules

Then import both files and all the schedules will be available

Download: http://www.filefront.com/16759521/klundstraining.zip

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going to try this with bristol rovers, about 10 games into the season. I was using DS training which seemed ok. will let you know how it goes later :)

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I appreciate it. I know it works very well for top flight teams but have not tested it for lower league teams but I expect it to work just as well.

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rekluse,

Could you explain, in a bit more detail, your thinking behind these training schedules. I'm just interested in the full-time schedules for now.

In particular, I'd like to know how/why you chose the settings you did for a particular role, even if it was just trial and error based and observation on which stats improved or declined. Or did you have a more 'calculation' based method?

Cheers :thup:

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Cheers for this. I usually like doing my own schedules, but I'll just use these while I get acclimatised to the game, which appears very different to the FM07 game which I stood by for so many years.

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rekluse,

Could you explain, in a bit more detail, your thinking behind these training schedules. I'm just interested in the full-time schedules for now.

In particular, I'd like to know how/why you chose the settings you did for a particular role, even if it was just trial and error based and observation on which stats improved or declined. Or did you have a more 'calculation' based method?

Cheers :thup:

What I did was first wrote down all the skills recommended for each position by SI, which are the ones highlighted when you choose the position. I then put them into categories based on which training that skill fell under. For example, Poacher would look like:

Dribbling - Ball Control

Finishing - Shooting

First Touch - Ball Control

Anticipation - Tactics

Composure - Shooting

Off The Ball - Tactics

Acceleration - Aerobic

Agility - Aerobic

Balance - Aerobic

Pace - Aerobic

2x Ball Control

2x Tactics

2x Shooting

4x Aerobic

Then I take into consideration the role a Poacher plays, defensive roles are almost non existent. So defending training is on light, lower than most of the other ST training sets. Attacking, Training and Strength are all on minimal medium since they are all useful but not nearly as important as other attributes.

With aerobic being such a key stat for Poachers, it is on high while strength is on minimal medium. Tactics and ball control are both important so are on high.

Then shooting, while also being 2x, is a very key attribute for Poachers and also shooting only raises 3 attributes but 2 of which are key attributes, composure and finishing, and one is very helpful, longshots (especially for this patch). So shooting is on very high.

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Thanks, much appreciated.

I've been having a look at training for some time now and the addition of player roles to the game has made designing schedules based on role type an obvious step. I was naturally very glad to see this thread.

I am toying with the idea that the number of attributes in each training category should affect the level of training assigned. Do you have any thoughts on this?

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I've copied a post I made elsewhere to help explain what I mean...

Strength - Natural fitness, stamina, strength and work rate.

Aerobic - Acceleration, agility, balance, jumping, pace and reflexes.

Say we want to improve the two attributes shown in purple, strength and jumping, for a given player.

The strength attribute is in the Strength category along with three other attributes making a total category size of four. Jumping is in the Aerobic category along with 5 other attributes making a total category size of six.

My idea is that in order to improve both strength and jumping by, let's say, a single point then the schedule should be set to train the Aerobic category at a higher level than the Strength category. The rationale is that the Aerobic training effort is split six ways whereas the Strength effort is split only four ways.

Expressing this in a mathematical sense, to improve the strength and jumping attributes by the same amount, the Aerobic training category should be set (6/4 = 1.5) 50% higher than the Strength category.

Let me just explain this a bit further. I don't mean Strength on notch 10 and Aerobic on notch 15. If we say that position 12 on any training category is a 'maintain' level, then if we want to improve the strength and jumping attributes by the same amount then we would/should set the Strength category to position 14 (+2 clicks) and Aerobic to position 15 (+3 clicks).

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If i have an AMC with attack role, which schedule should i fit him in?

One of the M - Roles, depending on his role. Currently my AMC is an advanced play maker, support, so hes in the M - Adv Ply Sup. In my Valencia game for example, Silva is an Inside Forward Support in the AMC role so he trains in the schedule M - Ins Fwd Sup.

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I've copied a post I made elsewhere to help explain what I mean...

Say we want to improve the two attributes shown in purple, strength and jumping, for a given player.

The strength attribute is in the Strength category along with three other attributes making a total category size of four. Jumping is in the Aerobic category along with 5 other attributes making a total category size of six.

My idea is that in order to improve both strength and jumping by, let's say, a single point then the schedule should be set to train the Aerobic category at a higher level than the Strength category. The rationale is that the Aerobic training effort is split six ways whereas the Strength effort is split only four ways.

Expressing this in a mathematical sense, to improve the strength and jumping attributes by the same amount, the Aerobic training category should be set (6/4 = 1.5) 50% higher than the Strength category.

Let me just explain this a bit further. I don't mean Strength on notch 10 and Aerobic on notch 15. If we say that position 12 on any training category is a 'maintain' level, then if we want to improve the strength and jumping attributes by the same amount then we would/should set the Strength category to position 14 (+2 clicks) and Aerobic to position 15 (+3 clicks).

If that's the player your trying to create then yes, the problem is they can only gain so many attributes and some they don't need for their position will just waste their PA points. For midfielders I tend to keep tactics at a high level since they raise easily and are all very helpful but then I'll have another schedule for those players that already have high attributes in this area and I'd rather focus on other attributes.

For some midfield roles, or a complete forward, then I agree it would be beneficial to have them in schedules to raise as many attributes as possible since nearly all are needed.

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One of the M - Roles, depending on his role. Currently my AMC is an advanced play maker, support, so hes in the M - Adv Ply Sup. In my Valencia game for example, Silva is an Inside Forward Support in the AMC role so he trains in the schedule M - Ins Fwd Sup.

Erm, my AMC is simply, attacking midfielder, attack. So, which one do you think fits in?

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Erm, my AMC is simply, attacking midfielder, attack. So, which one do you think fits in?

AM - Adv Ply Atk

The Advanced Playmaker - Attack is basically the same as an Attacking Midfielder - Attack. The difference is Acceleration and Work Rate for the AM instead of the Anticipation and Teamwork for the playmaker, so I didn't make a separate schedules for the two, I forgot to mention that.

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Brilliant. This will work well with Prozone's utility. I'm going to trial the schedule with my VERY lower league team - 10th tier of my British league!

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looking at this I think I have to give these schedules a try. Will download when I get hoem from work

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i'm picking up a ridiculous amount of injuries, such that i barely have enough players to accommodate a normal squad with a normal amount of subs. is this normal?

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i'm picking up a ridiculous amount of injuries, such that i barely have enough players to accommodate a normal squad with a normal amount of subs. is this normal?

That's because injuries were increased with the latest patch, to bring them more in line with real life levels. I suggest you make sure you have a large first team squad with adequate cover for each position (I usually have 23-24 players in my squad). Also maybe take a look at your tactics... do you play attacking football with a high tempo, high closing down and lots of forward runs? If your players are too tired they'll pick up more injuries. I find that using the "retain posession" and "take a breather" shouts for part of the match helps.

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that's not it at all. my previous training schedule was on the lowest setting of very heavy and injuries were very rare, even with the new patch.

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that's not it at all. my previous training schedule was on the lowest setting of very heavy and injuries were very rare, even with the new patch.

Then I don't know what it is, but as this schedule isn't on "heavy intensity" that surely can't be the problem then...

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I just now am starting a new 10.2 game to test and will update as needed, anyone else using these schedules with 10.2 any feedback is appreciated. Especially needing updating is GK training since 10.2 "Added Composure and Concentration to be included in Goalkeeper training".

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Really impressed with the effort you put into this training schedule and I have just started a new game with this schedule and will let you know how it goes. Looking forward to other users results and feedback with this schedule as well as I haven't had alot of time to play with the holidays.

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These schedules seem to be getting plenty of positive feedback. Could I ask that those of you having success in developing players for specific roles post some images showing the improvements.

I'm very interested to see if the schedules manage to target the key attributes, for each role, for improvement.

I must admit that I donwnloaded these schedules when they were first posted but haven't managed to find the time to test them for myself.

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I have not had the time to test these schedules either but there are a couple of points that I think should be brought up, considering this particular line of the discussion.

I've copied a post I made elsewhere to help explain what I mean...

Say we want to improve the two attributes shown in purple, strength and jumping, for a given player.

The strength attribute is in the Strength category along with three other attributes making a total category size of four. Jumping is in the Aerobic category along with 5 other attributes making a total category size of six.

My idea is that in order to improve both strength and jumping by, let's say, a single point then the schedule should be set to train the Aerobic category at a higher level than the Strength category. The rationale is that the Aerobic training effort is split six ways whereas the Strength effort is split only four ways.

Expressing this in a mathematical sense, to improve the strength and jumping attributes by the same amount, the Aerobic training category should be set (6/4 = 1.5) 50% higher than the Strength category.

Let me just explain this a bit further. I don't mean Strength on notch 10 and Aerobic on notch 15. If we say that position 12 on any training category is a 'maintain' level, then if we want to improve the strength and jumping attributes by the same amount then we would/should set the Strength category to position 14 (+2 clicks) and Aerobic to position 15 (+3 clicks).

The first point is that while each category will divide the CA being distributed for that category equally amongst the attributes in that category, each position a player can play in has a different CA weight for attributes leading to a situation where equal quantities of CA distributed throughout a category leads to unequal quantities of Attribute increases.

Fixed the table...

Plus.. I agree with kolobok. Best thread on the forums (imo). Anything that keeps it alive is a good thing :thup:

Att/ Posn	GK	DR/L	WBR/L	SW	DC	DMC	MC	AMC	MR/L	AMR/L	ST	Training category
Acceleration	3	4	4	4	4	4	4	5	5	6	6	Aerobic
Agility		4	3	3	3	3	3	3	3	3	3	3	Aerobic
Balance		2	2	2	2	2	2	2	2	2	2	2	Aerobic
Inj Prone	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	
Jumping		1	2	1	3	4	1	1	1	1	1	4	Aerobic
Natural Fitness	1	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	Strength
Pace		2	4	4	4	4	4	4	5	5	6	6	Aerobic
Stamina		1	3	4	3	3	3	3	3	3	3	2	Strength
Strength	3	3	2	3	4	3	3	3	2	2	4	Strength
Corners		0	1	1	1	1	1	1	1	1	1	1	Set pieces
Crossing	0	2	3	1	1	1	1	1	4	4	2	Set pieces
Dribbling	0	1	2	1	1	2	2	3	3	4	3	Ball control
Finishing	0	1	1	1	1	2	2	3	2	2	4	Shooting
First touch	1	2	3	3	2	3	3	3	3	3	4	Ball control
Free kicks	0	1	1	1	1	1	1	1	1	1	1	Set pieces
Heading		1	2	1	2	4	1	1	1	1	1	4	Ball control
Long shots	0	1	1	1	1	3	3	3	2	2	2	Shooting
Long throws	0	1	1	1	1	1	1	1	1	1	1	Set pieces
Marking		0	3	2	2	4	1	1	1	1	1	1	Defending
Passing		1	2	3	3	2	4	4	4	3	2	2	Attacking
Penalties	0	1	1	1	1	1	1	1	1	1	1	Set pieces
Tackling	0	4	3	2	4	4	3	2	2	2	1	Defending
Technique	1	2	3	3	1	3	3	3	3	3	3	Ball control
Versatility	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	
Aggression	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	
Anticipation	2	3	3	4	3	3	3	3	3	3	3	Tactics
Bravery		4	2	1	2	2	1	1	1	1	1	1	
Composure	2	2	2	3	2	2	3	3	3	3	4	Shooting
Concentration	4	4	3	4	4	3	2	2	2	2	2	Defending
Consistency	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	
Decisions	4	4	3	4	4	3	3	3	2	2	2	Tactics
Dirtiness	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	
Flair		0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	Ball control
Imp Matches	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	
Iinfluence	2	1	1	2	2	1	1	1	1	1	1	
Off the ball	0	1	2	1	1	1	2	3	2	2	4	Tactics
Positioning	4	4	3	4	4	3	2	2	1	1	2	Tactics
Teamwork	2	2	2	1	1	2	2	2	2	2	1	Tactics
Creativity	1	2	2	2	1	3	4	4	3	3	2	Attacking
Workrate	1	2	2	1	2	4	3	3	3	3	2	Strength
Aerial ability	4	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	Goalkeeping
Command of area	4	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	Tactics
Communication	4	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	Tactics
Eccentricity	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	
Handling	5	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	Goalkeeping
Kicking		4	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	Goalkeeping
One on ones	4	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	Goalkeeping
Reflexes	5	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	Aerobic
Rushing out	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	Tactics
Tend to punch	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	
Throwing	3	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	Goalkeeping

Read:

0 - is free attribute for this position

1 - least weight for position ... 6 - heaviest weight for position.

Hope this helps you pinpoint the formulas. Note that the degree of proficiency in a position reflects on the CA. Thus, a 20 in ST with 20 in AMC will actually reflect 50% of the above weights for ST and 50% for AMC.

The second point is that while the above table may be correct, it is missing a vital mechanic to accurately replicate the exact behaviour of attribute development, especially over time and according to age. I am convinced that Age acts as a modifier on attribute weights to produce a situation where a particular attribute can have a large/small positive or negative affinity for CA depending on the age of the player in question. For example an 18 year old Centreback may have a positive modifier for his 6x Acceleration Attribute Weight, whereas the same player at Age 30 is now experiencing a negative modifier for his 6x Acceleration attribute weight. For example age 18 might be 6x(1), age 20 might be 6x(0.5), age 24 might be 6x(0.1), age 26 might be 6x(-0.1), age 28 might be 6x(-0.5) and age 30 might be 6x(-1).

The third point is the impact of CA gain/loss/maintainance on the pattern of CA distribution through training. CA gain would produce a different pattern of CA distribution through training than CA maintained at it's previous level. This would imply that absolute values for Attribute Changes are not possible to obtain for entire Training Schedules as an absolute value for one Category would alter the distribution within other Categories dependent upon whether or not CA has changed and by what quantities.

While eventually it should be possible to accurately compute the exact details of Training schedules for players each time CA changes, the amount of switching back and forth to obtain absolute values from a specific utility would be quite time consuming, especially for multiple players. Therefore it may simply serve the overwhelming majority of players to understand Training as the rough shaping of attributes over time, and understand the underlying mechanics in an accurate but general way.

My idea is that in order to improve both strength and jumping by, let's say, a single point then the schedule should be set to train the Aerobic category at a higher level than the Strength category. The rationale is that the Aerobic training effort is split six ways whereas the Strength effort is split only four ways.

Expressing this in a mathematical sense, to improve the strength and jumping attributes by the same amount, the Aerobic training category should be set (6/4 = 1.5) 50% higher than the Strength category.

Let me just explain this a bit further. I don't mean Strength on notch 10 and Aerobic on notch 15. If we say that position 12 on any training category is a 'maintain' level, then if we want to improve the strength and jumping attributes by the same amount then we would/should set the Strength category to position 14 (+2 clicks) and Aerobic to position 15 (+3 clicks).

So here for example I would agree with the general principle of accurately matching ratios to obtain a particular shape, but I would disagree with the idea that this could be used to manage individual attribute point gains. Certainly at the moment this kind of accuracy is a long way off because the actual mechanics of CA distribution and player development in complete are not accurately known even if they can be generally stated.

I would completely disagree with any theory that states that there are universal Schedule Positions for Maintain for attributes because of the very fact that CA changes on a regular basis, and the fact that Age alters the apparent weight of attributes. There will ofcourse be schedule positions for each individual player to maintain particular attributes, but you cannot maintain all attributes in a category, maintain all attributes equally, or currently work out where that maintain level is for any attribute.

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Another great post SFraser and I agree with all the points made. On your critique of my earlier posts, I should say that between then and now I have read a huge amount of training research and have moved well away from that particular line of thought.

I have in previous posts, in this thread and others, mused out loud on my desire to find/develop role specific schedules. I am absolutely in favour now of individual schedules, to promote strengths and target weaknesses in role critical attributes, because with what I understand I cannot see a scenario where a 'one size fits all' set of schedules will get the best development through training for a squad of players.

That said, the views above are my own and I salute the efforts of rekluse here. I am still interested to see the good results from those using these schedules and by no means do I wish anyone reading this to be discouraged from giving them a try.

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great training schedule mate, much better than mine i made :) currently using it with my newcastle team... will let you know how its working when ive used it abit longer

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are you just supposed to leave the training as it is straight from the download or do you increase the intensity of the training?

i'm wondering since my attributes seem to be decreasing

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Has there been any advance on these? I seem to have some modest success with various schedules but some more insight would be helpful. I am trying to train a defensive winger so I have him set on the DM training in hope it trains him up sufficiently with another on the wide midfield training to see the results

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Great effort rekluse and thank you for sharing your work with everyone on the forums.

The principal appeal for me with this set of position and role orientated schedules, is that whilst I'm managing a lower league club, I see the importance and benefits of concentrating training on the key attributes I want in each part of my tactical system. The same of course can be said at big clubs, though lower league players, generally don't have the luxury of good attributes across the board.

I have to say that over the years, even though I've always been comfortable creating and fine tuning tactics, I've never paid much attention long term to training schedules. It's just something that I've not had the patience to work on with smaller clubs, which are often too much of a revolving door when it comes to players and staff, to justify the finite effort. I usually tend to opt for something, which at the very least, maintains the abilities of the players I've signed.

At big clubs, great facilities, coaches and quality players, with generally more stable and long-term player development aims, then I do try to pay more attention to training schedules. Sadly, I've never been a great mathematician, therefore I usually tend to look at the posts of some of the great posters who have concentrated their efforts on training. Generally though, I think it's an area of the game that causes great confusion, thus is often neglected. This will inevitably lead to people having players that never quite reach their optimum potential.

It's something I think I've mentioned in the past, when the concept of a Tactics Creator/Wizard tool was first in discussion stages. Maybe there's potential for something similar for setting up training schedules (if it's possible to implement in the structure of the game) in future releases. It's certainly something I'll mention again when I get to discuss things, once I get involved in beta testing again.

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Here's an updated link: http://www.filefront.com/16759521/klundstraining.zip

Updated the original post as well.

I originally planned on making a new version for the patch but after testing the differences were minimal at best so I am leaving the schedules the same since I had much more extensive training with these schedules as well as consistent success.

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rekluse, the download link shows an error and will not download. Can you assist, please? Kind regards.

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