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ajhyndman@gmail.com

FM 2008 crap

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Hi

I am a user of your product year in and out, I have to say that I find that every year your game gets less and less realistic, when I am promised it should become more. I think most people would agree that we want a game where if you build up a good team you expect to beat so called lesser teams, not every time, but the majority. I was recently Aberdeen and played 3 home game against Falkirk, St Mirren and Kilmarnock, 3 tough fixtures, I was in my second year and had a formidable squad, the stats where as follows:

TEAM GAME SHOTS SHOOTS ON TARGET SCORE

Aberdeen 1 18 7 0

Falkirk 1 2 1 1

Aberdeen 2 15 9 1

St Mirren 2 3 2 2

Aberdeen 3 23 11 1

Kilmarnock 3 4 4 3

I have compared every player in each team and I can swear that all my players where better, my tactics cant be to bad as I was sitting 2nd in the league prior to these games, if you can show me stats of this happening to a real team I will except it, but please when you say realistic this is the area you have to sort out, apart from that the game is good, but your scaring people away with this stupidity, as you will see when you read reviews of the game.

Rgs Andy.

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Hi

I am a user of your product year in and out, I have to say that I find that every year your game gets less and less realistic, when I am promised it should become more. I think most people would agree that we want a game where if you build up a good team you expect to beat so called lesser teams, not every time, but the majority. I was recently Aberdeen and played 3 home game against Falkirk, St Mirren and Kilmarnock, 3 tough fixtures, I was in my second year and had a formidable squad, the stats where as follows:

TEAM GAME SHOTS SHOOTS ON TARGET SCORE

Aberdeen 1 18 7 0

Falkirk 1 2 1 1

Aberdeen 2 15 9 1

St Mirren 2 3 2 2

Aberdeen 3 23 11 1

Kilmarnock 3 4 4 3

I have compared every player in each team and I can swear that all my players where better, my tactics cant be to bad as I was sitting 2nd in the league prior to these games, if you can show me stats of this happening to a real team I will except it, but please when you say realistic this is the area you have to sort out, apart from that the game is good, but your scaring people away with this stupidity, as you will see when you read reviews of the game.

Rgs Andy.

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Great statistics, taking only 3 matches into consideration, congratulations icon_rolleyes.gif

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Andy, i swear to lucifer that you will get flamed for this, but i CAN, and i put my FM'hood on it, that with a few tweaks of your tactics turn those chances into goals.

I wont, because thats your job as manager icon_wink.gif but a few little things will make a massive difference.

You've probablys tried "other things" in that department, but it took me 5 seasons to get my tactic set good enough to win leagues...

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Message never work out properly but the stats where as follows:

Hi

TEAM /GAME /SHOTS/ SHOOTS on TARGET /SCORE

Aberdeen 1 18 7 0

Falkirk 1 2 1 1

Aberdeen 2 15 9 1

St Mirren 2 3 2 2

Aberdeen 3 23 11 1

Kilmarnock3 4 4 3

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masteR+_+ I aint just taking 3 games into account, I am using these 3 games to show the flaws in FM 2008, if you can show me a sequence of 3 results like I had in football history ill eat my words, the game is flawed and every year gets worse, this aint just me, look at the reviews on web sites selling it.

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I agree it is tragic

AI plays in a way that the engine understands humans play as they want and engine can not respond .It isn't about tactics or players it is about beating the engine .

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<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Themistofelis:

I agree it is tragic

AI plays in a way that the engine understands humans play as they want and engine can not respond .It isn't about tactics or players it is about beating the engine . </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Erm, yes it is about tactics.

I used to be under the impression i was being ripped off, i was having 30+ shots, 15+ on target and 0 or 1 goals. The CPU had 3/4 shots and scored 3/4 goals. I read the Tactics forum in depth, and tweaked a few things on my tactics, and now i have 18-25 shots, but score 3+ goals nearly EVERY game. I still concede a lot, but thats because i have a very attacking formation, and a shoddy defense to boot. I suggest you guys heed what i learned in the tactics forum, as it will make your FM experience a lot more enjoyable.

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Just to further my point...

This season reads.....

Played - 25

Won - 21

Scored - 85

Conceded - 24

And i am by no means a "super team", nor do i have good players. I am.... Knockbreda. I'm 16 points clear in the league, and its ALL down to tactics...

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<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by NepentheZ:

Erm, yes it is about tactics.

I used to be under the impression i was being ripped off, i was having 30+ shots, 15+ on target and 0 or 1 goals. The CPU had 3/4 shots and scored 3/4 goals. I read the Tactics forum in depth, and tweaked a few things on my tactics, and now i have 18-25 shots, but score 3+ goals nearly EVERY game. I still concede a lot, but thats because i have a very attacking formation, and a shoddy defense to boot. I suggest you guys heed what i learned in the tactics forum, as it will make your FM experience a lot more enjoyable. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Ok so to play the game i need to go in tactics forum and read a crapload of pages in order to understand how i can beat the engine, thank you for the info.

+30 shots should score 10 goals minimum despite tactics , players or anything.

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Na I am not buying it, I have downloaded all these tactics online and tried them, people boasting about winning this and that league, played the tactic and had the same result, and tweak, I have tweaked that much I should be called Rafa.

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Yes this happens me all the time,sometimes having 20 shots on target and winning 1 nil.Just the other day I played Everton and had 18 shots on target with rooney,eto and tevez up front and lost 1 nil to everton even though it was there second shot of the game in the very last minute...BASTARDS

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<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Themistofelis:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by NepentheZ:

Erm, yes it is about tactics.

I used to be under the impression i was being ripped off, i was having 30+ shots, 15+ on target and 0 or 1 goals. The CPU had 3/4 shots and scored 3/4 goals. I read the Tactics forum in depth, and tweaked a few things on my tactics, and now i have 18-25 shots, but score 3+ goals nearly EVERY game. I still concede a lot, but thats because i have a very attacking formation, and a shoddy defense to boot. I suggest you guys heed what i learned in the tactics forum, as it will make your FM experience a lot more enjoyable. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Ok so to play the game i need to go in tactics forum and read a crapload of pages in order to understand how i can beat the engine, thank you for the info.

+30 shots should score 10 goals minimum despite tactics , players or anything. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

So you are under the impression teams IRL score 1 every 3 shots no matter what? You clearly have no idea what you are talking about. And no, you dont have to go and trawl through 100 pages to get a good tactic, thats just what i chose to do. You can just as easily spend weeks and weeks developing your own, finding out exactly how to work the tactic yourself icon_wink.gif

30+ shots, doesn't happen regularly IRL, admittedly, but 1 goals every 3 shots NEVER happens game on game on game. And with a tweak of your tactics, 25+ shots returning 3 goals a game im sure will make you happy, so yea, maybe you should go into the tactics forum...

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<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by ajhyndman@gmail.com:

masteR+_+ I aint just taking 3 games into account, I am using these 3 games to show the flaws in FM 2008, if you can show me a sequence of 3 results like I had in football history ill eat my words, the game is flawed and every year gets worse, this aint just me, look at the reviews on web sites selling it. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

The previous three Liverpool games prior to the Middlesboro game at the weekend.

Man City V Liverpool Liverpool 19 attempts 8 on target sover 0-0.

Liverpool V Wigan Liverpool 21 attempts 8 on target score 1-1

Luton V Liverpool Liverpool 12 attempts 5 on target score 1-1.

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<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by ajhyndman@gmail.com:

Na I am not buying it, I have downloaded all these tactics online and tried them, people boasting about winning this and that league, played the tactic and had the same result, and tweak, I have tweaked that much I should be called Rafa. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Downloading a tactic is NOT the answer.!!!!

Someone had a winning tactic with THEIR set of players, not yours. YOU need to develop your own tactic. You wonder why you are struggling, when all you are looking for is a quick fix to win? May aswel use FMM or the Editor mate icon14.gif

Its not a sprint, its a marathon...

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The whole essence of FM is that it is a simulation of a real life sport (football). The idea is that it is set up to give the gamer enjoyment by replicating the football world. But the realism ends at the point where the real players are included in the database along with the real teams.

The idea of all games is to understand the 'mechanics' of the game to achieve the best results. You don't complain when playing an army simulation that the Germans win your game of World WarII as this is an achievable outcome from the 'game', no game claims to repeat real life, it wouldn't be any fun if games did this as you'd know what to expect before you started playing.

With FM08 as NepentheZ has stated you need to tweak your tactics to suit your players to enable them to react as the game expects them to to achieve the results, and for every game it is different.

Once you master the techniques for setting up tactics appropriately, using the opposition instructions (which IMHO is they key) and team talks accordingly then the results will follow.

But as with real life don't expect everything to happen to the form book. Happily FM08 replicates the unpredictability of football nicely, thank you...

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<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by NepentheZ:

but 1 goals every 3 shots NEVER happens game on game on game. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by ajhyndman@gmail.com:

TEAM /GAME /SHOTS/ SHOOTS on TARGET /SCORE

Aberdeen 1 18 7 0

Falkirk 1 2 1 1

Aberdeen 2 15 9 1

St Mirren 2 3 2 2

Aberdeen 3 23 11 1

Kilmarnock3 4 4 3

</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Look what the AI did

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SI THIS IS OUTRAGEOUS.!!

Ok, so i've just played away from home against one of the better teams, Portadown.

I had,....

22 Shots, 11 on target 4 goals.

they had.....

20 shots, 10 on target 1 goal.

When will this be fixed please, its ruining my game icon_mad.gif

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totally disagree, I am not jumping in here looking for a quick fix, I am talking after months playing, tweaking tactics I have done for all the previous FM's, but ever new edition gets further from reality, this is not just me saying this, go read the reviews, just because you think you have mastered it, the majority think its crap, the whole package looks good but the game play is getting worse, I understand the world of football is not straight cut but show me 3 sets of results as above and ill agree, not what your saying roberto, im talking about oppostion stats.

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How many more of these threads do we need in GQ.

This really should be in the bugs forum, there is a dedicated thread on this issue in there & you can upload your save games for the testing team to look at in regards to a fix.

Also I recall Paul.C coming onto the forum a while pack stating that the way shots are calculated had been changed & yes they messed up put it is being looked into.

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<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by NepentheZ:

SI THIS IS OUTRAGEOUS.!!

Ok, so i've just played away from home against one of the better teams, Portadown.

I had,....

22 Shots, 11 on target 4 goals.

they had.....

20 shots, 10 on target 1 goal.

When will this be fixed please, its ruining my game icon_mad.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

am i the only one who does not see a problem with these stats?

You just played a blinding game and your keeper was god for the day...

Top teams do lose to lower end teams you know...

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<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by ajhyndman@gmail.com:

totally disagree, I am not jumping in here looking for a quick fix, I am talking after months playing, tweaking tactics I have done for all the previous FM's, but ever new edition gets further from reality, this is not just me saying this, go read the reviews, just because you think you have mastered it, the majority think its crap, the whole package looks good but the game play is getting worse, I understand the world of football is not straight cut but show me 3 sets of results as above and ill agree, not what your saying roberto, im talking about oppostion stats. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Set 1

Set 2

Set 3

Set 1 -

AI -

Shots 21

On Target 12

Goals 0

Me -

Shots 22

On Target 13

Goals 4

Set 2 -

AI -

Shots 23

On Target 16

Goals 1

Me -

Shots 27

On Target 12

Goals 3

Set 3 -

AI -

Shots 20

On Target 10

Goals 1

Me -

Shots 22

On Target 11

Goals 4

So now you agree? I have plenty of games like this.... i could give you AT LEAST 10 more examples... want'em?

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<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Chilliconcarnie:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by NepentheZ:

SI THIS IS OUTRAGEOUS.!!

Ok, so i've just played away from home against one of the better teams, Portadown.

I had,....

22 Shots, 11 on target 4 goals.

they had.....

20 shots, 10 on target 1 goal.

When will this be fixed please, its ruining my game icon_mad.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

am i the only one who does not see a problem with these stats?

You just played a blinding game and your keeper was god for the day...

Top teams do lose to lower end teams you know... </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Sorry buddy, i was being sarcastic to the OP. Im actually knockbreda.. icon_biggrin.gif I know, what a game icon_smile.gif

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What are you talking about?, I said REAL life stats I want to confirm game is realistic, not you showing me stats that I see on my own game, and keppers do play blinders, but im talking about goals against if you look at original message.

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<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by ajhyndman@gmail.com:

What are you talking about?, I said REAL life stats I want to confirm game is realistic, not you showing me stats that I see on my own game, and keppers do play blinders, but im talking about goals against if you look at original message. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I showed you what you wanted to see, now you want to see something different? What sort of stats do you want? Me having 20+ shots scoring 3+ goals and the CPU having 6 or 7 shots scoring 1 goal? i have those too, just name it...

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Barside thank you for the link

Developer's post just confirms my first post , AI plays in a way the engine understands humans play in a way engine does not ; it also confirms that the % of scored shots is relying on a code rather than in player's skills , tactics or anything.

Combine those two facts to see the obvious , why all this happens.

p.s. when i grow old i wanna be like NepentheZ

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Im talking about losing 3 games in a row at home against lesser teams as shown in the stats above, I believe you have these cause you have the same game, what im saying is it is not realistic, you get it???

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<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by ajhyndman@gmail.com:

ask themistofelis cause he gets it if you get stuck </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

its you whos stuck mate icon_wink.gif

Im winning, with good stats, you're not...

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I really hate the rolleyes smily it really really annoys me, basically someone making a good point becomes sarcastic or patronising.

Needed to get that off my chest.

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So you've hit a bad run of fault and your players misfire, so why come and add to the tally of demanding threads here.

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but a few little things will make a massive difference.QUOTE]

That is true of FM08.

That is NOT true in real life.

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god this is hard work, not a bad patch, its a totally un realistic patch, thats my point, if you agree or disagree dont matter, as I keep saying show me a run of REAL life results as I got and ill take all this back, **** tweaking tactics, there fine, just game need adjusted.

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<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by homerjnick:

but a few little things will make a massive difference.QUOTE]

That is true of FM08.

That is NOT true in real life. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

How do you know,? Are you a REAL LIFE football manageR?

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You dont adjust width 1 click in real life and it has such impact it has in the game.

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<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by NepentheZ:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by homerjnick:

but a few little things will make a massive difference.QUOTE]

That is true of FM08.

That is NOT true in real life. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

How do you know,? Are you a REAL LIFE football manageR? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

No but common sense prevails in that my team will lose 3-0 versus a weaker team then I tweak my tactic eve so slightly by one notch and win 3-0 in FM08.

IRL that doesn't happen. Tactics are the be all and end all in FM08 whilst IRL they are NOT that important as it is player skill.

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I don't know where to start with this one.

Firstly, the OP has taken Aberdeen to second in the table. So surely he's had some pretty excellent results along the way.

Secondly, is it really so rare to batter teams and still fail to win? And, yes, it can happen in consecutive games. Liverpool are considerably better than some of the teams they've failed to beat lately. But it happens.

My suggestion would be to keep working at your tactics. Just a couple of tweaks here and there. Before you know it, especially if your team is as good as you say, you'll find yourself on a winning streak again.

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I think tactics are the be all and end all, you can have a great bunch of players but be disorganised and rubbish (England) or have a bunch of organised players and win (Greece), the problem with the game is that a click to many and you upset the balance of the team, where as in real life you would go out and say "chaps play a fast paced long ball game while defending deeply and counter attacking".

Its been said many times before tactics need to have more of an explanation and some feedback, its also a known issue that there is a problem with chances created/scored.

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Yes "tactics", "team talk" and "opposition instructions" do make the difference.

If your team is creating lot's of chances but not scoring, it's due to pressure!!!

This comes either from media or even from yourself.

Telling your wingers and strikers individual at halftime that there is no pressure on them, and by telling the others that you are pleased would probably have done the trick!

That's all the help i give you, you deserved those results only for telling FM is crap here! icon_razz.gif

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Mike7007: I seen the stats for Liverpool, but my point is more with regards to one team have the chances converted against them and failing to score with so many. The away team has a conversion of around 85% over 3 games, the home team has a rate of around 4%, these are rough figures but you see my point.

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tactics are too important. And one winning tactic may fail if rival is aware, this is because sometimes crap teams beat you just after you kicked a giant ass.

If you play against a defensive team, change your tactic. Don't have just 1, at least have two and maybe tweak them.

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hmmm

not agreeing with the o/p as it very rarely happens in my game, but all this in a champions lg semi final?! lol i swear i aged ten years watching the commentary

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4.10.2008, Pittodrie Stadium

Aberdeen-St. Mirren

22Shots3

11On Target2

11Off Target1

45%Possession55%

1Corners0

21Free Kicks20

21Throw-Ins13

14Fouls21

6Offsides0

67%Passes Completed66%

58%Crosses Completed-

42%Tackles Won62%

76%Headers Won34%

2Yellow Cards4

0Red Cards1

Notice the red card which was in the 48th min, guess the result? 2 nil to St Mirren, I know this happens, I have never once doubted that, but 3 times in a row!!!

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Can you post a screenshot of your fixture list and then screenshots of the 3 matches in a row where you were beaten by a team that had a player sent off in each match.

Thanks icon14.gif.

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player sent off happened only in this match, this is a seperate match to the sequence shown above, that game was deleted after i replaced the mouse i smashed up

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<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by ajhyndman@gmail.com:

Mike7007: I seen the stats for Liverpool, but my point is more with regards to one team have the chances converted against them and failing to score with so many. The away team has a conversion of around 85% over 3 games, the home team has a rate of around 4%, these are rough figures but you see my point. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Are you saying that this happens a lot? Or just in the games you referred to in your original post?

I ask because if it's the previous, then surely, by logic, you wouldn't have made it to second in the league.

And if it happened only in the games you mentioned in your original post, then can you not put that down as an unfortunate sequence of events, as a real manager would have to, and try to figure out what you can do to get it sorted out?

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