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(I've pretty clearly got a higher percentage of abandoned stories than anyone still active on the forum)

Not sure about that, I think in reality I would probably beat you icon_wink.gif

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Interesting, PM ... you and I have similar styles, then.

Sounds arrogant if I say it, but nevertheless it's true, I have a natural ability to write and so I am sure do you, as does Terk, Bobbev, HD a few others perhaps. So for us, the writing comes easily, and just flows out and sometimes it is actually very hard to stop! (Just look at the length of Amaroq's posts icon_biggrin.gif) But other people perhaps don't have that natural fluency in writing - and also perhaps don't have the boldness to fail which I think is needed on a forum like this - and so they will need to work harder and in that situation it is probably best to get a body of text on paper so to speak and possibly even take notes and stuff to build the story with.

I'm also very lazy as a writer, I don't even write plot lines in advance, it just 'comes to me' icon_biggrin.gif

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Originally posted by canvey!!:

Also, I've noticed in stories, particularly Amaroq's, that some players in squad selections at the start of the match are emboldened, whereas others aren't. Why are some emboldened, or do you just choose the ones which you feel will make an impact?

I suppose I ought to answer that. icon_wink.gif I've tried to write both for the reader who diligently reads every word, and also for the "skimmer" .. so I adopted a number of conventions to help the reader keep track of what they might want to keep track of - score, time, date, etc.

I didn't figure every reader would read the entire teamsheet every time, but I figured by highlighting two players, usually either impact-players or youngsters getting a run-out with the first team .. it gives something that stands out if you're only glancing over the teamsheet.

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I don't have a fluency in writing, but I continually try my best to get detail into my story.

As people who have read my current story would know, my style is one that takes note of the diligent reader, who would probably read every word of it.

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Thank you for your advice, everyone. I think BobBev and I are similar; this is the third FM Story I've started (fortunately writing them in advance means that you'll never see those half-hearted cancelled efforts), and the neccesity to write things down slows down the pace of the game and can make it less interesting.

I'm striving to stay interested in the story, as though it's difficult to get into now, at a new club (where usually it's difficult - getting to know the players, but with the story as well the pace is slower so it takes longer), but in the future when my character is managing the Faroes to World Cup Glory (that's a bit clichéd, isn't it? icon_biggrin.gif), it will be alot more interesting, as he will be winning games more easily - and also I will have developed my writing style. Once you are 2 or 3 seasons into the game, it takes no effort to play it - you've fallen in love with the team icon_biggrin.gif.

As for match reports, once again to keep myself interested, I don't want to write reams and reams of every event that has happened in the match. So I'm writing to be more concise than Amaroq but still match-by-match and in more detail than, say, flipsix.

I suppose I should have realised, Amaroq, that's the reason for the boldface. I have to admit I am a bit of a skimmer of your story myself (KUTGW by the way; I'm currently on p3 of Book II), and surprisingly I haven't noticed how I've subconsciously picked up on these players.

In fact, without me realising it, that helps a lot when I read the story. I'm no huge fan of reading the reports on every player at the start of a story, but when you pick up on them at the start of every match, I soon get to learn their position and skill level, meaning I can get away with not reading the individual reports at the start of a season/job. With my FMS, I've decided to write these reports in chunks when the story suits it, and when I feel the protagonist is getting to know these players. I don't like to write one post of just player reports, because that bores me, and is generally incongruent with the story. I love the way that in FMS, there's no strict guidelines to story-writing. Everyone has a different style, and I reckon I've got one of the most different.

Can I post my opening post here? I'm kinda happy with it, but seeing others makes me think that it isn't as dramatic as perhaps I would like. I'm open to any kind of constructive criticism of it - don't think you'll be hijacking my story. I don't suppose you'd like me to be left in the dark as to the quality of my writing, so please ask if you're willing to help me.

See, I can write a lot without really thinking about it! \o/. Now, the question is, have you read that post while maintaining your interest. Perhaps a bit of bold tagging for the skimmers willing to help me icon_biggrin.gif - at least the emoticons make it stand out.

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Originally posted by Amaroq:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by canvey!!:

Also, I've noticed in stories, particularly Amaroq's, that some players in squad selections at the start of the match are emboldened, whereas others aren't. Why are some emboldened, or do you just choose the ones which you feel will make an impact?

I suppose I ought to answer that. icon_wink.gif I've tried to write both for the reader who diligently reads every word, and also for the "skimmer" .. so I adopted a number of conventions to help the reader keep track of what they might want to keep track of - score, time, date, etc.

I didn't figure every reader would read the entire teamsheet every time, but I figured by highlighting two players, usually either impact-players or youngsters getting a run-out with the first team .. it gives something that stands out if you're only glancing over the teamsheet. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

It's funny because like most people, when I first started writing here I would list the score and scorers and stuff after each game and then I realised that basically a lot of people would just look at the score and not actually read what I had taken ages to written so now I don't do that. If someone wants to know what happened, they have to read icon_wink.gif

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Post it here if you want Canvey, basically though, just have the confidence to post it on the forum as a story, no-one will come along and say 'hey this rubbish never post here again' when you are genuinely trying because that would be a banning offence. And tbh, I don't get the impression it will be rubbish anyway so just do it.

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Okay then, I won't bother posting it here. It'll be a few weeks or a month before it shows up on the forum because I'm going to write a season's worth up. And, tbh, I wasn't expecting anyone to call it rubbish. icon_biggrin.gif

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Probably a good idea, especially in the early days, to write a fair bit up in advance. Don't want to end up with Terk's rep icon_biggrin.gif

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Well I'm well and truly into my writing swing at the moment, written up 9 games so far and my character is well and truly grounded in the plot. Good news too is that I'm genuinely enjoying playing the save as well, which is something I didn't expect to do this quickly. I've even added a rather smutty scene which I doubt you'll be seeing until about a month or so after the story begins icon_biggrin.gif.

Cheers all for advice and you better watch out as canvey!! will soon be on the block!

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Canvey, the bad news is, I have high expectations of your story, given your writing in this thread. icon_wink.gif

PM7, yeah, I thought about that, but I decided I would be accessible to more readers if I acknowledged to myself that skimming happens .. I'll even skim a bit when reading a novel for the first time. So, I've tried to accommodate them. I imagine that I have some readers who are reading the story bits but skipping to the bottom for scores and goalscorers .. while others who may only read my match summaries .. so I wanted to support both.

Canvey, one other bit you may not have noticed specifically is that I try to post the score at the end of each goal-scoring paragraph, if not more often, for those who skim the match reports. I list the Blades first, so I'll say 0-1 to indicate that we're trailing even though I read it as "one-nil" in my head, and if I'm talking about a hypothetical score I'll always write it in full, for example "Newell almost made it two-nil a minute later, but .."

I suppose I should have realised, Amaroq, that's the reason for the boldface. I have to admit I am a bit of a skimmer of your story myself (KUTGW by the way; I'm currently on p3 of Book II), and surprisingly I haven't noticed how I've subconsciously picked up on these players.

In fact, without me realising it, that helps a lot when I read the story. I'm no huge fan of reading the reports on every player at the start of a story, but when you pick up on them at the start of every match, I soon get to learn their position and skill level, meaning I can get away with not reading the individual reports at the start of a season/job. With my FMS, I've decided to write these reports in chunks when the story suits it, and when I feel the protagonist is getting to know these players. I don't like to write one post of just player reports, because that bores me, and is generally incongruent with the story.

I agree. When I get a full-team report in a single post, I tend to skim it by the time I'm halfway through the defenders, even if I meant to read it in full.

That's why I started doing the "one position at a time" style that you'll see in Blade, and also why I list the top performers first - if you're a skimmer, then for every position you can pretty much read the first three and skip the rest, because you know that the first three are going to get the lion's share of the action.

I also thought a lot about exactly how I wanted to do the team-sheet listing, and decided to do full-name instead of last name to support the reading-every-fourth-day reader. I learned that from somebody else's story, where they were listing last-names only, and it made perfect sense when I read it from start to finish and remembered the first names that went with the last names because they were fresh in my mind .. but when I was checking in on the story after I was "caught up", I quickly lost track of who was who. So, I figured I'd give a paragraph over to that for each match to reinforce the first-name last-name and position of each player .. and thats the only thing in that paragraph, so those who don't like it can skip it and know that the next paragraph is the opening kickoff.

I really did put a lot of thought into my match-writeup format, and tried out several variations on myself before settling on what I did!

Of course, its probably made the story "too long" for some readers.

I love the way that in FMS, there's no strict guidelines to story-writing. Everyone has a different style, and I reckon I've got one of the most different.

Absolutely.

Professional writers call that "Finding your 'voice'," and its really one of the biggest components I think to writing successfully. Compare and contrast Robert Heinlein, Lois McMaster Bujold, Kim Harrison, and Janet Evanovich: totally different voices, different styles, you could never ever mistake one for the other .. and all either very successful or on their way.

That's been one of the hardest challenges for me writing outside of FM: here I "found my voice", but in entirely-original creative venues, I find myself aping too much whomever I have most recently read!

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but in entirely-original creative venues, I find myself aping too much whomever I have most recently read!

Actually there isn't a lot wrong with that. I have enough confidence in my own ability as a writer, but I also know that I am influenced by certain stories and writers and really, I am happy to use that if I can icon_biggrin.gif

Canvey, quality new writers are always welcome here, as it helps inspire the rest of us to keep going. I would have given up last year completely if it hadn't been for the arrivals of Amaroq and Panpardus amongst others. So you are more then welcome here!

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Thanks for the encouragement Amaroq and PM7, and your words of praise. They're certainly motivating me to keep writing (not that I need the motivation just yet), and I already feel like I'm among the greats, and in your company probably am.

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Bah, they're both ****. I'm where the real talent lies in this forum icon_cool.gificon_razz.gif

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We need a blushing smiley-face. Badly. It seems like the only possible response to your comment, PM!

Oh, and icon_razz.gif to Terk. icon_wink.gif

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Bill:

I've been following your story and I have a thought or two if you'll indulge me. Your story is well written but it looks to me like I'm reading Bill Bennett's life from the window of a speeding train.

I don't see huge flaws in your writing per se, but what I'd like to see as a reader is a little more character development. Your note that you had forgotten to mention your protagonist was doing double duty with Russia only adds to that perception.

Suddenly, we're picking up match results without an idea of what Bill is like. From a football standpoint, that's fine - there are some great stories on this forum that stick to football and that's all well and good. But you make reference later to "a dilemma and an impossible choice". Why is it impossible? If you're getting into Bennett's head, take the reader along.

Again, though - I don't condemn. Goodness knows my own story is far from perfect. I'd just like to know what makes Bill Bennett tick.

Good luck icon_smile.gif

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Originally posted by Amaroq:

I find myself aping too much whomever I have most recently read!

This is a good point, Amaroq. I have found some tips on this forum that I will incorporate into Rob Ridgway's 2008-09 season, which has just entered production on my laptop.

When I started writing Calcio, it was with the idea it would stay on my hard drive forever. This forum persuaded me to let it see the light of day.

However, in deciding to post, I've noticed some things other writers do which will make next season a better effort from a technical standpoint. In mid-story, I can't change how I do certain things, so I have to wait for "next season" to do that.

Choosing the diary format is the hardest challenge I have ever assumed as a writer, and that's a good thing. Calcio is now a completed project on my hard drive, and the feeling of accomplishment I get from that is immense.

However, in finishing the product I realized I could do certain things better than I have done and next season will incorporate some changes. That is due in part to influence from this forum.

Amaroq, I believe you and I are similar in that we both "write big". Calcio is written with a very broad scope, which means arcs and character development can be easier, but tying everything together is a huge challenge.

Yet, I wouldn't change it and don't expect after all your work that you would either.

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Originally posted by tenthreeleader:

Bill:

I've been following your story and I have a thought or two if you'll indulge me. Your story is well written but it looks to me like I'm reading Bill Bennett's life from the window of a speeding train.

I don't see huge flaws in your writing per se, but what I'd like to see as a reader is a little more character development. Your note that you had forgotten to mention your protagonist was doing double duty with Russia only adds to that perception.

Suddenly, we're picking up match results without an idea of what Bill is like. From a football standpoint, that's fine - there are some great stories on this forum that stick to football and that's all well and good. But you make reference later to "a dilemma and an impossible choice". Why is it impossible? If you're getting into Bennett's head, take the reader along.

Again, though - I don't condemn. Goodness knows my own story is far from perfect. I'd just like to know what makes Bill Bennett tick.

Good luck icon_smile.gif

I agree with that. I realised that it was going to fast so that is why I'm trying to give the character a bit of back story.

The "dilemma and impossible choice" is meant to be a bit of a cliff hanger and I hopefully my next post will show why.

Thanks for your feedback

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If you think it's worth having I will be happy to provide it. I'll be reading and again, best of luck to you.

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Breaking news here,

Although I've played and written a season into my debut FMS, I feel that it would be best to leave it for FM08 and attempt it again; same setup and protagonist, for FM09. There is about 6-7 months until FM09 (it seems a lot when I write it like that), and I'd rather round off my dafuge's challenge game and my career game before being put under the pressures of story writing.

When I was playing FM06, I noted how easy it was at times to waltz from league to league with successive promotions. With FM08 (I skipped '07), you just can't do that (I can't, at least). I'm hoping FM09 will be a little easier, which in turn will make the story more fun and interesting - a relegation dogfight is fascinating but having it stretch on season after season just isn't.

Still, it has been a good learning experience for me. One of the greatest challenges in the writing of the story will be, as tenthree said, to tie everything together - to introduce foresight etc. I'm happy with the way I've written the matches and the personal storylines, and I'm content with the padding - but I think I should detail more, incorporating more of the minor transfer scrutinies and perhaps not just announcing big occasions when they happen, but weaving them in better so they fit story-wise.

But, on one final note - perhaps it's just ignorant dissatisfaction - as I haven't yet posted a story, I have no idea how good my story-writing is when it comes to FMS. Perhaps I just feel that I can do a lot better, where in fact it may be rather good. This is your opportunity to change my mind, as I am still in two about whether to continue with this for FM08 or not, or even just post what I have - 1 season, and pass it off a short story. Advice required, please.

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canvey!! We'll never know what your story writing capabilities are unless you share. I don't want you to get too perfectionistic before you even post, but at some point, you need to just take a chance and let the chips fall where they may.

This is not intended as offensive, it is an innocent question.

Maybe you want awards and that is your primary motivation to post? If so, you feel you might not have a story strong enough to win awards?

Writers write stories because they have to write it, regardless of public opinion and despite the feedback on it.

Maybe you should listen to your gut and table it? Maybe you feel it isn't interesting to you?

My story, An American Pilgrimage, is being written as I play it. I don't type ahead and then publish daily. I publish when it's written. People might not like the wait between posts, but they don't say so. They might not like the plot, the characters, the setting. However, that is the nice thing about this forum. People who like it will give me feedback.

I don't feel like I will carry on with this story for as long as Amaroq's Blade story, nor any of Faramir's five pieces. However, when I tire of it, I'll end it. The point I'm trying to make for you is that a good story will tell itself until it's finished.

You inquired about a short story being a season long. Technically, a short story is defined as being short enough to be read in a single seating. For some people, that's twenty minutes. For others, it's two hours.

My opinion is that you should write a story that's long enough to satisfy the main conflict that your protagonist faces at the very start of the story you do decide to publish.

You get to decide how long that gets to be. You are the creator of your work. You also get to decide when to end it.

Some shows on TV last multiple seasons and don't seem to lose much steam. However, movies don't last as long and, oftentimes, the sequels aren't as good as the first movie.

Whatever you decide, it will be the right choice for you. Good luck.

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Originally posted by copperhorse21:

People might not like the wait between posts, but they don't say so.

Copper, my friend, you may want to go back and read some of your feedback. I don't get that impression at all! icon_biggrin.gif

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tenthree, you're ever the editor. Thanks for noticing my proofreading error. icon_wink.gif

What I intended to tell canvey!! was that people who don't like something in this forum are kind enough to keep it to themselves the majority of the time because many of us in here who post understand how difficult it can be to put together an interesting story. Therefore, the ones who seem to enjoy a particular story style are kind enough to post to support any future efforts. icon14.gif

I put that one clause slightly out of place and it was discovered. Oops.

Either way, I'll reread all the feedback on Pilgrimage and then maybe I'll appreciate my selective memory all the more.

icon_razz.gif

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Originally posted by copperhorse21:

tenthree, you're ever the editor. Thanks for noticing my proofreading error. icon_wink.gif

I'm just givin' ya a hard time. But then I think you know that!

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I don't feel like I will carry on with this story for as long as Amaroq's Blade story, nor any of Faramir's five pieces.

That's the thing - my primary motivation is to spin the tale into an epic story. I just don't feel that that will ever happen with the story I have at the moment. I'm still in a bit of a dilema as to what to do; you're feedback has helped - I can realise that perfection is really only in my own eyes; some people would love my story, some people would hate it, but the ones who'd hate it wouldn't be undermining my efforts. However, understanding that, this story just doesn't feel right. But the thing is, I don't neccesarily know what that means - I don't truly understand why it doesn't feel right, but perhaps it is the gameplay rather than the actual story-writing, and the only way to find that out would be to post it.

I really do think that I should scrap it though...

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If you're planning to write basically the same story (or the same characters, club, etc, etc) for an FM09 game and post it here then obviously you probably wouldn't want to post what you've done for FM08, but otherwise I'd just post it and see.

Probably over 90% of the stories on here are ones which get abandoned unfinished at some point, but people still enjoy them while they last and have to just accept that sometimes the writer runs out of ideas or motivation.

I made the deliberate choice to post a "short" story for my latest one because I didn't feel I could commit to something really epic and I am one of the big culprits at starting a story and then leaving it hanging. Mind you, all those who have been following my short story will no doubt agree that it ended up stretching the definition of "short" well past any mainstream definition!

That is the joy of it though really - the reason it became so extended was because I really enjoyed the writing of it which is ultimately the one and only factor that really matters in whether a story is worthwhile or not. Obviously encouraging comments from the readers help, anyone starts to lose a bit of confidence in their story, however much they enjoy writing it, if no-one is commenting at all, but this whole forum is full of experimentation.

I write lots of crap stories (or starts of stories), I never know how they'll turn out, but occasionally one gathers momentum and I feel really pleased with my efforts whatever the quality of the writing. Enough people seem to enjoy what I write to make it worthwhile and the story I have just finished is probably the most rewarding I've ever done precisely because it grew out of me just really enjoying writing it. That said, it took so long to do because it was quite hard work to try and keep the level up to what I felt was acceptable.

Anyway, all that waffle is pretty much by way of saying - if you have a story then just post it and dinna fesh yissel about anything else unless you intend to do the exact same story for FM09 icon_wink.gif

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Originally posted by canvey!!:

That's the thing - my primary motivation is to spin the tale into an epic story. I just don't feel that that will ever happen with the story I have at the moment.

Perhaps, then, you may want to consider writing an FM08 story as a pre-cursor to your epic.

You indicated that what you have at present doesn't "feel right." If you worked on a shorter story, it would give you the opportunity to develop your own style and become more comfortable with it, based on your experience, as well as the feedback you receive. That experience would be rather useful in any future efforts.

I would encourage you to post what you've got, but don't artificially limit your story to one season. As Copper said, just keep going until you're tired of it or the story has told itself.

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Okay, I've made my decision. I won't be doing this story for FM08, but there's about a 30% chance I'll do some sort of middle-length story for FM08, as a prequel of sorts. We'll see.

But I have a different question. I haven't seen anyone use it yet, but I'm considering incorporating it into a story, so I'm wondering how would I go about effectively bringing an extended metaphor into an FMS, or is it just unworkable?

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It would completely depend on the extended metaphor you chose to bring in to determine if you've done it effectively.

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You're right, tbh, it was a bit of a silly and vague question. Forget about it, bigger fish to fry...

I've backburnered the Leeds story for the moment, simply because I've learned one important thing: I cannot play FM icon_frown.gif. So basically, after the threads in the tactics & training forum not helping me with my inability to win easy matches, I've decided to go ambitious for my first official FMS.

The plan is that I make my progress very public on the T&T forum. I suggest my plans for the game, the more experienced players can correct me and advise me, linking me to potential threads that I can learn in small nuggets and change my gameplay slowly. Then, I play the games, and write the story about it here.

The story is therefore more interesting, because instead of instant success or instant failure, we have a learning curve, which gives an indication of what might happen if one of us from the community got appointed to a managerial job with no prior experience. And it's that rare essence that I want to capture.

Although any other hints, strategies, etc. are welcome, my main question is do I post the story at the same time after the T&T discussion, giving myself, say, a backlog of 1 season, or do I post them at the same time - increasing waits between posts in the FMS but linking the two much better and helping the T&T users to understand how the match went?

Also, although I'm sure it shouldn't be a problem, could one of the mods confirm that posting like this between forums is okay and not considered advertising, and if it is grant me a special trial...?

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Originally posted by canvey!!:

You're right, tbh, it was a bit of a silly and vague question. Forget about it, bigger fish to fry...

I've backburnered the Leeds story for the moment, simply because I've learned one important thing: I cannot play FM icon_frown.gif. So basically, after the threads in the tactics & training forum not helping me with my inability to win easy matches, I've decided to go ambitious for my first official FMS.

The plan is that I make my progress very public on the T&T forum. I suggest my plans for the game, the more experienced players can correct me and advise me, linking me to potential threads that I can learn in small nuggets and change my gameplay slowly. Then, I play the games, and write the story about it here.

The story is therefore more interesting, because instead of instant success or instant failure, we have a learning curve, which gives an indication of what might happen if one of us from the community got appointed to a managerial job with no prior experience. And it's that rare essence that I want to capture.

Although any other hints, strategies, etc. are welcome, my main question is do I post the story at the same time after the T&T discussion, giving myself, say, a backlog of 1 season, or do I post them at the same time - increasing waits between posts in the FMS but linking the two much better and helping the T&T users to understand how the match went?

Also, although I'm sure it shouldn't be a problem, could one of the mods confirm that posting like this between forums is okay and not considered advertising, and if it is grant me a special trial...?

I'd write in real-time. But first disabuse yourself of the notion that you can't play. icon_smile.gif You put your CD in the drive and hit the executable. Stay with it and stay patient.

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Fortunately I know how to run the game! icon_wink.gif I mean, I am absolutely awful at the game. Any other replies? I'm tending to agree with tenthree, but am thinking that perhaps I should just do it as if there is no story being written, but write the story as I would anyway. The FMS and the T&T people rarely cross paths anyway.

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Aye. Just start posting and it'll all fall into place icon_wink.gif

I come to the conclusion I can't play FM probably once per day. Being a glutton for punishment though I still return the next day. And FM has a habit of letting you go just far enough that you are thinking of quiting altogether and then suddenly you start winning games, so your interest soars again. It's evil, it toys with me icon_razz.gif

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For me it depends how big you want your story to be - if you're going to make it last a few seasons then, as a rule, I nomally try to get at least a season ahead before posting.

Along with the ability to backtrack in the unfortunate event of a crash, this also affords me a lot of slack for those periods when i "go off" the game and don't play for a while.

Your idea sounds interesting, and I think it could make an excellent story without ever directly linking the FMS and T&T parts of it. Start low-ish down, but high enough that your presence as an unkown is "surprising" - maybe somone on the board owed you a favour, or simply the chairman is your Dad - and they employ seasoned coaches to try and help you behind the scenes. I can't go into more detail thatn that, it's up to you how you craft a story around it, but it definitely has potential!

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Right, I've got the setup done - everything is in place. With any luck you should see this in the Tactics and Training Forum by the end of the weekend. I'll be writing a backlog, so it'll be a few weeks to a month before it appears here, so if you want to read the story as a surprise, don't check out the T&T Forum icon_wink.gif

Cheers for the replies everyone.

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Just want to ask a question.

Do you think it is better to write a story in the first person (managers point of view) or third person (a overall story on a club.)

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I, to be honest, prefer to write in the third person, but there is no 'better' way of writing the story.

For instance, Amaroq and tenthreeleader have written stories that are absolutely exceptional in 1st person.

On the other hand, flipsix3 has written a story in 3rd person, that is just as good as Amaroq's and tenthreeleader's.

It's all down to personal preference, really. ^_^

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I've written both, not sure if I have a preference for either - depends on the story. Often I use a diary style which is obviously 1st person.

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I've tried writing both - the first was a 1st-person and that was fine. Then the second was third-person and I haven't been able to do first-person since then, it just seems really corny when I do it.

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Actually, I've changed my mind. I'm not going to write the story of my learning curve game - so I'll just be running it on the T&T Forum - the thread is here if you want to see the learning curve anyway. Instead, I'll master the game and then continue with one of my other stories.

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I'm starting a new story as Russian side Luch Vladivostok and I can only find one decent photo of the stadium. Does anyone know of another couple? Cheers.

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Is the one you have from worldstadiums.com?

Smaller pictures of many Russian stadia can also be found here.

Googling "Dynamo Stadium" Vladivostok (using the quotes as indicated) yielded a few match images but not much in the way of full-stadium pictures.

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Originally posted by turn it upto 11:

Just want to ask a question.

Do you think it is better to write a story in the first person (managers point of view) or third person (a overall story on a club.)

There are great stories on this forum written both ways. It is a matter of personal preference. Amaroq, Copper, JimT and many other folks write wonderful first-person narratives and viper is quite correct to note that there's no "right" way. (His third person narrative is also darned entertaining work).

I prefer the first person because I like to develop all characters as seen through the eyes of the protagonist. I like to write main characters with weaknesses the reader must see for himself, so first person is the best choice for my personal style of writing.

Third person is a more flexible style, since it allows you to carry a story away from the eyes of the main character. There were times in writing Calcio that I missed that flexibility. Perhaps I'll try a third person story in the future but right now Rob Ridgway is too darn much fun to write icon_smile.gif

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I have to admit I sometimes get inconsistent on that front. I write mostly in the 1st person, but often include aspects that really need more of an "eye in the sky" to be able to see them. I tend to like to mix and match styles though to suit my mood or the event I'm trying to cover.

e.g. in my Werder Bremen story, told through the eyes of the Werder Bremen manage I also gave fairly detailed reports of games that were going on simultaneous to our own, but in those cases it would mostly just be in terms of my manager having watched that game on TV and then written about it. On another occasion I reported on the most important game as if I were writing the story in real time down there on the pitch side which obviously isn't really realistic from a pure 1st person perspective - the were rather more important things to do than be writing a story on the touchline during a "title decider" icon_biggrin.gif

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Can I have some help with my story, "No time like the present"?

I think I'm doing pretty well. I've read a few other stories, which have helped me adapt my style a bit, but I'd like to know from a third party of any ways I can improve further.

Thanks.

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I might add one thing. Amaroq said on the first page that you have to be enjoying the story yourself for it to flourish. I would add that you have to be enjoying the actual game as well: generally I don't think starting a game because it would be a good idea for a story is a good move because you may not enjoy the game and thus the story loses momentum.

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I might add one thing. Amaroq said on the first page that you have to be enjoying the story yourself for it to flourish. I would add that you have to be enjoying the actual game as well: generally I don't think starting a game because it would be a good idea for a story is a good move because you may not enjoy the game and thus the story loses momentum.

Yes and (mostly) no. My FM writing career has just started, and I already know that, as was the case in my only finished career story with EA's management sim (link to shameless self-promotion included), once I get bored with the game, I will make up things. It is always nice to juggle several story lines...

That, and the added excitement of a game in which developments may surprise you are two NO-arguments. I agree, however, that the dreariness of playing a low level club with too little financial clout to do anything else but survive, because you lack the tactical finesse and eye for talent to grow as manager and make your club grow as well, could kill the motivation to continue with the game. At least, that is what I expect to happen with my main character, as I myself fit the bill of that kind of manager very well :>( .

Even being forced to keep your head up gives enough possibilities to weave into a story, though. It could give cause for describing resolve, despair, and a whole spectrum of emotions. So even a boring game in which one as a manager only has a bleak future, can give countless handholds to continue and delve out a story.

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For me, I want to branch out from the conventional.

Stories that i have read from the manager's point of view(be it first person, second or third) are absolutely thrilling. However, I do know that I will be unlikely to ever replicate the goodness of those stories.

From my own experience, the first-person stories I have written are absolute ********. I have too rigid an imagination, and only if i do experience it in real-life do my stories really come to life(was that a paradox?). However, it seems unlikely i'll ever be a football manager.

I have never tried second-person, and it looks like an interesting challenge. My third-person stories are even better, however writing from a third-person point of view about 'his' club and 'his players' and instead of saying 'I was overjoyed with the win' it becomes 'Goofus was thrilled with the win'. It makes me feel very distanced.

So i have decided to leave the stories about my management career to FM09(where i can actually see what's happening) and branch out into auto-biographical style. As seen by the teaser chapters to my upcoming series 'This Is Your Life', I write mostly in 3rd-person, but as the story goes on, I will switch into a first-person mode, with me as the speaker, to give the audience a sense of belonging, a sense that they truly are the ones being honoured.

Is this a good idea? I would love to hear your comments.

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That should work if you have some sort of consistancy. For example, every third post is in first person, or you change to first person at the end of each match.

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