higgins Posted October 27, 2009 Share Posted October 27, 2009 Who's that man in the picture? He's Vittorio Pozzo, the manager of Italian national team that won two World Cups (1934 & 1938). He and his friend Hugo Meisl, the coach of Austrian national team (the wunderteam) created the Metodo( derivated from the 2-3-5), bringing some interesting changes in that tactic. The new asset was a 2-3-2-3 tactic, or, if you prefer it had a WW shape, more suitable for the Italian players skills. In those years even Bologna used the Metodo and won two Mitropa cup with that (1932-1934). I wrote this brief introduction to give you an historical overview of the tactic I'm going to recreate in FM 10. First of all I'm going to use the new tactics creator to build this one, without tweaking it with the sliders, all the tweaks that I'll make will happen through the wizard or the touchline shouts. I thought this could be an intriguing way to test the opportunities offered by the new tools; despite that, I'm aware of the limits of my choice, but there will be time to finely tune my tactic, if needed. For now I want to keep things very simple an basic, for example I didn't create any corner or free-kicks routines, they will come later on. That will be the shape of the Metodo in FM 10. I chose Bordeaux to test my ideas and develop the tactic. The core of the tactic is the dmc (centromediano metodista), basically a mix between an anchor man and a deep laying playmaker, he needs to stop and restart the action, opening to the 2 Amc's or directly to the wingers. The central striker is the finisher, he need to be strong in the air and with good technical skills. So far I played these 7 official fixtures with 6 games won and a draw away to Arsenal, the tactic is working better at home, but I hope to find a good asset even for away games. However in my home matches I'm satisfied of what I saw so far, quick counterattacks and free-flowing football, just few touches to reach the opposite box. I hope to keep you interested about the tactical side of the game with my own effort, feel free to share your thoughts about this or submit your own ideas. UPDATED********DOWNLOAD METODO TACTIC********UPDATED Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Dodgson Posted October 27, 2009 Share Posted October 27, 2009 Who's that man in the picture? He's Vittorio Pozzo, the manager of Italian national team that won two World Cups (1934 & 1938). He and his friend Hugo Meisl, the coach of Austrian national team (the wunderteam) created the Metodo( derivated from the 2-3-5), bringing some interesting changes in that tactic. The new asset was a 2-3-2-3 tactic, or, if you prefer it had a WW shape, more suitable for the Italian players skills. In those years even Bologna used the Metodo and won two Mitropa cup with that (1932-1934). I wrote this brief introduction to give you an historical overview of the tactic I'm going to recreate in FM 10. First of all I'm going to use the new tactics creator to build this one, without tweaking it with the sliders, all the tweaks that I'll make will happen through the wizard or the touchline shouts. I thought this could be an intriguing way to test the opportunities offered by the new tools; despite that, I'm aware of the limits of my choice, but there will be time to finely tune my tactic, if needed. For now I want to keep things very simple an basic, for example I didn't create any corner or free-kicks routines, they will come later on. That will be the shape of the Metodo in FM 10. I chose Bordeaux to test my ideas and develop the tactic. The core of the tactic is the dmc (centromediano metodista), basically a mix between an anchor man and a deep laying playmaker, he needs to stop and restart the action, opening to the 2 Amc's or directly to the wingers. The central striker is the finisher, he need to be strong in the air and with good technical skills. So far I played these 7 official fixtures with 6 games won and a draw away to Arsenal, the tactic is working better at home, but I hope to find a good asset even for away games. However in my home matches I'm satisfied of what I saw so far, quick counterattacks and free-flowing football, just few touches to reach the opposite box. I hope to keep you interested about the tactical side of the game with my own effort, feel free to share your thoughts about this or submit your own ideas. More to come soon... Hi Higgins, Good opening post - I like it... is this the same formation as the W-M on another thread? I tried to create a similar tactic but couldn't quite get it to work! Questions for you: 1) What are the roles for each player - defend, support etc? 2) What kind of passing game are you setup for? 3) What role have you given to your central striker? I'm keen to give this a go - but found it hard to get what I wanted - and I know that your experienced in making tactics, especially in 09 - so I'm keen to listen to your ideas, progress and thoughts! Look forward to your answers - and also your progress! Mike Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
higgins Posted October 27, 2009 Author Share Posted October 27, 2009 Hi Higgins,Good opening post - I like it... is this the same formation as the W-M on another thread? I tried to create a similar tactic but couldn't quite get it to work! Questions for you: 1) What are the roles for each player - defend, support etc? 2) What kind of passing game are you setup for? 3) What role have you given to your central striker? I'm keen to give this a go - but found it hard to get what I wanted - and I know that your experienced in making tactics, especially in 09 - so I'm keen to listen to your ideas, progress and thoughts! Look forward to your answers - and also your progress! Mike Hi Mike, long time no talk! This is a WW shaped formation as you could see from the screenie, not a WM. The same for the roles, just look at the screenie (the shield=defend, the square=support, the arrow=attack) The central striker is an advanced forward but I'm considering other options, just testing them. Regarding the passing I'll post something later on. Bye and thanks for reading. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr.Strangelove Posted October 28, 2009 Share Posted October 28, 2009 I have found that i'm a fickle soul and change my tactics quite often, and they are normally solely decided on what i think fits with the players I have available to me. So with that in mind a couple questions. Any thoughts on how this tactic works for different teams? Such as, teams with a poor front line force (STs) would have a large amount of problems running this tactic with its requirement to have 3 strikers. Also having a very very very strong DMC seems absolutely key and any team without a strong one would be advised to not give this a try, no? Have you tried pulling the two AMCs down into just MCs and pulling the two wide forwards down and making them wingers? This way it would still be somewhat of a WW but the link between the midfield and the back line would be a shorter distance and you could adjust the tactic depending on the strength of your team's strike force. Just an idea that came to me and was wondering if you had time to test it out. All in all looks promising, i'll be interested to see how it goes for you as you test it out more. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
higgins Posted October 28, 2009 Author Share Posted October 28, 2009 I have found that i'm a fickle soul and change my tactics quite often, and they are normally solely decided on what i think fits with the players I have available to me. So with that in mind a couple questions.Any thoughts on how this tactic works for different teams? Such as, teams with a poor front line force (STs) would have a large amount of problems running this tactic with its requirement to have 3 strikers. Also having a very very very strong DMC seems absolutely key and any team without a strong one would be advised to not give this a try, no? Have you tried pulling the two AMCs down into just MCs and pulling the two wide forwards down and making them wingers? This way it would still be somewhat of a WW but the link between the midfield and the back line would be a shorter distance and you could adjust the tactic depending on the strength of your team's strike force. Just an idea that came to me and was wondering if you had time to test it out. All in all looks promising, i'll be interested to see how it goes for you as you test it out more. As I said I just started to develop and test the tactic with Bordeaux, after that I could try this one in a lower league. The issue, as you noticed, could be the lack of strikers and amc's in lower league teams, however if you have the right players I think this tactic could work, peraphs with some slight tweaks. The dmc is vital for this tactic, he's the link between the 2 moments (offense & defense), I have Fernando Menegazzo there, he's good, but not a world class player. The key is having the right attributes for the job imo, so good defensive skills and then good passing and decision. Never thought about the shape you talked about, even if it could be interesting, for now I'll stick at the original one. Thanks for your comments. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RossoneriGunner Posted October 28, 2009 Share Posted October 28, 2009 ....is this the same formation as the W-M on another thread? I tried to create a similar tactic but couldn't quite get it to work! Hi Mike, I like the WM tactic and used it with great success in 09 and now I am looking to succeed in FM10. So if you have any questions then we would be glad to see you on the thread. PLEASE, PLEASE, I am not tapping up......LOL Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
vitoco77 Posted October 28, 2009 Share Posted October 28, 2009 any link to download so that we can test for you with different level of teams?! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Hobgob Posted October 28, 2009 Share Posted October 28, 2009 Would like a link too please. How have the rest of your results been going? Have you had any issues with your WB's as they are technically FB's? What roles do the side forwards play? Is it best to place quick strikers or out and out wingers in those places? Hobgob. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RossoneriGunner Posted October 28, 2009 Share Posted October 28, 2009 No tactics were uploaded because this was a discussion thread and also because other people used different teams and players some of the settings needed changing to adapt to their players. So what we did was to post our players settings and then let the other's set up their players to suit. http://community.sigames.com/showthread.php?t=106245 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
higgins Posted October 28, 2009 Author Share Posted October 28, 2009 any link to download so that we can test for you with different level of teams?! Would like a link too please.How have the rest of your results been going? Have you had any issues with your WB's as they are technically FB's? What roles do the side forwards play? Is it best to place quick strikers or out and out wingers in those places? Hobgob. No downloads, at least for now, the tactic is under development, I'm going to give you more infos about my results and how I use it. I had no particular issues from the wingbacks, they rarely join the attack so even a accomplished fullbacks could go well there. My side forwards are....inside forwards! My left one is a winger (accomplished to play as a striker) while the right one is a quick striker (accomplished to winger role) Many options as you see. If any of you is interested in this tactical framework, feel free to develop your own and contribute with your experience to this thread, of course you have to stick at the original "Metodo" (or WW if you prefer) shape, otherwise it would another tactic Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RossoneriGunner Posted October 28, 2009 Share Posted October 28, 2009 Hi Higgins, I definitely love the W_M formation and when I am happy with that then I will give the Metodo a go and see what happens. Another formation that I was toying with but never got around to trying was this one M_W. What I might do is to set up 3 saves 1.W_M, 2. W_W (Metodo) and 3. M_W and see what develops. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Hobgob Posted October 28, 2009 Share Posted October 28, 2009 No downloads, at least for now, the tactic is under development, I'm going to give you more infos about my results and how I use it. Ok my friend, well I will keep my eye on this thread in case a tactic pop's up. I have tried to get it to work myself in older versions of FM but to no success. I wish you the best of luck! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
higgins Posted October 28, 2009 Author Share Posted October 28, 2009 Hi Higgins, I definitely love the W_M formation and when I am happy with that then I will give the Metodo a go and see what happens. Another formation that I was toying with but never got around to trying was this one M_W. What I might do is to set up 3 saves 1.W_M, 2. W_W (Metodo) and 3. M_W and see what develops. Ok Rossoneri, as you probably remember, I built my own WM tactic for FM 09, I had good success with that,but I was not so satisfied with how my team played. Actually, what I saw with the METODO so far is encouraging and the tactic seems to produce good-looking football. So it deserves a go. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RossoneriGunner Posted October 28, 2009 Share Posted October 28, 2009 Yes a lot of us seemed to have a lot of problems with the ST/FC, but with FM10 my ST/FC seems to be scoring better than in '09. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
boomheadshot45 Posted October 28, 2009 Share Posted October 28, 2009 Oooh another Bordeaux player, nice! The Metodo is a very interesting tactic, it seems that you aren't grinding out 2-0 or 1-0 wins, but it seems you lost some of the Italian safety at the back. Is a there a way to be strong at the front and at the back with this tactic? Or is it mostly either or. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mag man Posted October 28, 2009 Share Posted October 28, 2009 Will follow this Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RossoneriGunner Posted October 28, 2009 Share Posted October 28, 2009 Well I suppose I have an advantage over most of you as I am medically retired, so I can play FM 48hrs a day. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
higgins Posted October 28, 2009 Author Share Posted October 28, 2009 Oooh another Bordeaux player, nice! The Metodo is a very interesting tactic, it seems that you aren't grinding out 2-0 or 1-0 wins, but it seems you lost some of the Italian safety at the back. Is a there a way to be strong at the front and at the back with this tactic? Or is it mostly either or. I think the team is a bit unbalanced, notably in my away matches, of course this tactic it's quite offensive and I don't want to change too much far from home, so some risks are not avoidable Will follow this Thanks mag-man. Well I suppose I have an advantage over most of you as I am medically retired, so I can play FM 48hrs a day. Medically retired? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
higgins Posted October 29, 2009 Author Share Posted October 29, 2009 Numbers, numbers and more numbers! I played some more matches and this is my table now. Click for full size - Uploaded with plasq's Skitch Even if I am supposed to manage a strong team the table clearly exceeds my expectations. These are all the fixtures I played so far: 16 W 1 D Click for full size - Uploaded with plasq's Skitch Here there are some screenies to better understand how the METODO works. Goals and assists per position. Players role It's time to make some considerations about this tactical framework. In 17 matches my team scored 2.5 goals per match and conceded 0.7 p/m, not bad for an aggressive tactic that tend to overload the attack, bringing up to 6 players in the opponent box. The main scorer is the central striker, he scores basically from wingers crosses, amc's through balls and wingbacks crosses and through ball. As you saw in the picture I posted all my 5 more attacking players contribute well to the attacking phase. The 2 side forwards deliver assists and make fast cuts in from the flanks to create some havoc in the box in a very effective way, have in mind that when one of my winger makes a cross, I've got often 4 player in the box ready to connect with them. My best tackler, unsurprisingly, is my anchor-dmc, nearly 3.0 per match. I told you before that I build this this tactic with the wizard, I wanted to know if with a nearly preset tactics and just using the touchline shouts it was possible to overachieve, the answers I got so far are promising. You should know that the tactics creator let us choose among 5 philosophies, I chose the rigid one for this tactic, with the aim of keeping the decided shape, home and away. I nearly always start my games with the "control" strategy changing sometimes to "overload" when I want to put more pressure on the opposite lines. In my away games I could try to lower my closing down settings, going for "stand off more". Team settings In my next post I'm going to give some hints about how I use the shouts during a match, if you want to know more feel free to ask. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
vitoco77 Posted October 29, 2009 Share Posted October 29, 2009 Looks good! Look forward to your next post! I will try it out with my Man City squad...if you may have a tac to download?! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RossoneriGunner Posted October 29, 2009 Share Posted October 29, 2009 ...Medically retired? Hi mate, yes I have Lumbar and Cervical Spondylosis...which means that the bones and discs in my neck and lower back are crumbling away. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BoloBolo Posted October 29, 2009 Share Posted October 29, 2009 pls man put a link Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mag man Posted October 29, 2009 Share Posted October 29, 2009 I like that you striker is scoring a lot. As you probably know I use W-M but the front 5 are the same, I havent tried a rigid philosophy yet so will try that. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
higgins Posted October 29, 2009 Author Share Posted October 29, 2009 I like that you striker is scoring a lot. As you probably know I use W-M but the front 5 are the same, I havent tried a rigid philosophy yet so will try that. It helps to keep your shape, and I saw that this shape, expecially upfront, is very good and let you overload the opponent box. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RossoneriGunner Posted October 29, 2009 Share Posted October 29, 2009 I found that a rigid philosphy is better for something like W_M. I tried it with Balanced and Fluid but I found that I did not keep the shape. Also I used one DMC as an anchor and one - usually Fabregas - as a deep lying playmaker, also I used one AMC as a Treqi. How have you got your ST set up i.e. Advanced, Poacher etc?. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RossoneriGunner Posted October 29, 2009 Share Posted October 29, 2009 pls man put a link This tactic is still under construction. You know the formation so why not use the tactic wizard set up you players and report back with your findings. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mag man Posted October 29, 2009 Share Posted October 29, 2009 Also with the settings provided there is enough to replicate it Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RossoneriGunner Posted October 29, 2009 Share Posted October 29, 2009 Mag_man I know you dont have a lot of time to play at the moment, but have you tried this formation yet....I already know the answer I think....NO!...LOL Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
higgins Posted October 29, 2009 Author Share Posted October 29, 2009 I found that a rigid philosphy is better for something like W_M. I tried it with Balanced and Fluid but I found that I did not keep the shape. Also I used one DMC as an anchor and one - usually Fabregas - as a deep lying playmaker, also I used one AMC as a Treqi. How have you got your ST set up i.e. Advanced, Poacher etc?. Advanced forward, it's in the screenie... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
higgins Posted October 29, 2009 Author Share Posted October 29, 2009 Also with the settings provided there is enough to replicate it I couldn't agree more. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mag man Posted October 29, 2009 Share Posted October 29, 2009 Mag_man I know you dont have a lot of time to play at the moment, but have you tried this formation yet....I already know the answer I think....NO!...LOL I have actually played like this on FM09 but not tried it on FM10. I used to play a 442 diamond a lot and when I needed to attack I would push the wingers and fullbacks up into the positions in this tactic. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RossoneriGunner Posted October 29, 2009 Share Posted October 29, 2009 Advanced forward, it's in the screenie... Yeah sorry mate, brains not working. I've got the flu and a viral infection at the moment and feel like death warmed up. (Sorry off topic) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
higgins Posted October 29, 2009 Author Share Posted October 29, 2009 Yeah sorry mate, brains not working. I've got the flu and a viral infection at the moment and feel like death warmed up. (Sorry off topic) It's ok. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RossoneriGunner Posted October 29, 2009 Share Posted October 29, 2009 Just tried this tactic in an ECC...was well pleased. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BoloBolo Posted October 29, 2009 Share Posted October 29, 2009 i try your tactic with Bordeux with poor results:( that's why i want your tactic........is so simply to put a link......then to discus on the tactic Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BoloBolo Posted October 29, 2009 Share Posted October 29, 2009 i try your tactic with Bordeux with poor results:( that's why i want to put a link ........is so simply to put a link......then to discus on the tactic Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BoloBolo Posted October 29, 2009 Share Posted October 29, 2009 sory four my english Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mag man Posted October 29, 2009 Share Posted October 29, 2009 It has been created in the tactical wizard. higgins provides the settings you need. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RossoneriGunner Posted October 29, 2009 Share Posted October 29, 2009 I used rigid, contain and retain possession, set my tempo to quick (15) and my d-line set to 9. I also set Fabregas as deep lying playmaker instead of anchor and used Arshavin (AMC/R) as a Treqi. I went one nil down on 83min then I changed to attack and got a penalty on 89min which RVP converted and being happy with 1-1 and the away goal I changed back to Control and got the winner care of Arshavin on 90+2. So all in all I am delighted. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RossoneriGunner Posted October 29, 2009 Share Posted October 29, 2009 i try your tactic with Bordeux with poor results:( that's why i want to put a link ........is so simply to put a link......then to discus on the tactic BoloBolo do you want to put a link on here? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BoloBolo Posted October 29, 2009 Share Posted October 29, 2009 BoloBolo do you want to put a link on here? yes my friend:D Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RossoneriGunner Posted October 29, 2009 Share Posted October 29, 2009 YEEEEESSSSSSSSSSS FM10 has just been pushed throo my letterbox. Good ol' Play.com. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BoloBolo Posted October 29, 2009 Share Posted October 29, 2009 YEEEEESSSSSSSSSSS FM10 has just been pushed throo my letterbox. Good ol' Play.com. pls put a link with the tactic Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mag man Posted October 29, 2009 Share Posted October 29, 2009 higgins and R/Gunner what are your thoughts on high closing down? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RossoneriGunner Posted October 29, 2009 Share Posted October 29, 2009 I normally have closing down around 14, just before 'whole pitch' and find that this is fine and this was set for nearly all the team and when I checked at the end of a game I found that my players still had between 70 & 80% condition left. Now I have my FB's and DC's as 'own half only' as I dont want them chasing all over the pitch leaving holes in defence. Now I have tried Higgins W_W and this uses wingbacks perhaps I may have to change their settings to whole pitch. Will have to take a closer look at this now. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BoloBolo Posted October 29, 2009 Share Posted October 29, 2009 pls put a link wit the dowmnloadable tacitc...i want to try with your setings:D pls:( Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mag man Posted October 29, 2009 Share Posted October 29, 2009 The settings are posted in post 19 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BoloBolo Posted October 29, 2009 Share Posted October 29, 2009 i use that seting with por results taht's why i want rhe tactic...i use bordeux with poor results Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RossoneriGunner Posted October 29, 2009 Share Posted October 29, 2009 My settings are the same as those in Post No.19 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RossoneriGunner Posted October 29, 2009 Share Posted October 29, 2009 Mag_man I know that you and I liked the sliders, but, have you changed your mind since using the TW? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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