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Is Cut Inside Broken?

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I have tried all the possible combinations. I think Cut Inside is broken.

Winger - Attack/support only goes to hug touchline/normal wing play.

Wide Midfield - Attack/support/defend only goes to normal wing play.

Defensive midfield - Support/defend only goes to normal wing play.

Also when you are playing a game and you got to tactics and change any of the options (hug touchline, normal, cut inside via Wing Play - the confirmed button is greyed out - it won't let you change the settings.

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Move your wingers up the field a notch and select "inside forward".

Agree there should be an additional option for the ML/R positions, though.

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Perhaps the option to cut inside should be allowed for players in the MR and ML position as well as AMR and AML.

I've got a right footed player playing as AML with cuts inside and he usually does drift infield with the ball.

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It certainly works if you play AMRs and AMLs. I did a quick experiment last night playing 451. The first half I played with two wingers, the second with two inside forwards and the difference was absolutely clear. First half they spent the majority of the time beating their fullback and crossing, the second half they cut in and shot at goal or linked up with the striker, exactly as expected.

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MR and ML don't cut inside. They don't run with the ball that often and if they do they are looking for a cross. If you want the player to run with the ball and potentially cut inside then you need to set him up to play as a winger, not a side midfielder.

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Are you playing them on the 'wrong' flank (i.e. right footer on the left, left footer on the right)?

Nah it doesn't matter regardless of foot. MR ML don't cut inside. Only AMR AML do.

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Sorry, I was referring to AMR and AML. I think I misunderstood the opening post.

What you are saying is that when using MR and ML, you cannot get them to cut inside. Is that correct?

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Yes well not using the wizard anyway and I don't think manually setting them to CIS works either.

I'm still a bit confused. :confused:

Only the Inside Forward cuts inside by default as far as I can recall.

A Winger and a Side Midfielder, by definition of their roles, don't cut inside.

You can give someone 'winger' settings and ask them to cut inside by selecting the manual option. They are less likely to follow your suggestion if their stronger foot means that they would prefer to go down the line for the cross. You'll also be asking them to cross often anyway with this role so they will be less likely to move inside.

I've got wingers cutting inside/playing into the middle sometimes though by getting them to swap positions, so that they sometimes swap on to the other flank (opposite of their footedness). I also set the wing play to 'normal'.

What is it that you are trying to achieve exactly?

Regards,

C.

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Are you playing them on the 'wrong' flank (i.e. right footer on the left, left footer on the right)?

Cut in is, as all Wide play instructions, without the ball instruction. Footedness shouldn't metter.

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I've got wingers cutting inside/playing into the middle sometimes though by getting them to swap positions, so that they sometimes swap on to the other flank (opposite of their footedness).

that's not cutting in, it's position swaping. I'll check out tonight if it's true that Inside forwards do cut in.

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Cut in is, as all Wide play instructions, without the ball instruction. Footedness shouldn't metter.

Of course it matters. You can see that in the match engine yourself, before this 'cut inside' option even came along.

A player is naturally inclined to play narrower and come inside on to his stronger foot when he is played on the 'wrong' flank. Likewise, he will be naturally inclined to play more with his feet on the line if playing on his preferred flank.

It's been confirmed by WWfan that an inside forward will work better at 'cutting in' if he is playing on the 'wrong' flank, so I'm not just making it up.

Regards,

C.

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that's not cutting in, it's position swaping. I'll check out tonight if it's true that Inside forwards do cut in.

They cut in because they position swap!

Go back and read my post again please. :rolleyes:

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Of course it matters. You can see that in the match engine yourself, before this 'cut inside' option even came along.

A player is naturally inclined to play narrower and come inside on to his stronger foot when he is played on the 'wrong' flank. Likewise, he will be naturally inclined to play more with his feet on the line if playing on his preferred flank.

It's been confirmed by WWfan that an inside forward will work better at 'cutting in' if he is playing on the 'wrong' flank, so I'm not just making it up.

Regards,

C.

of course the wrong footed players will be more inclined to cut in (and that was the case with my player) in real life and so should be in game. but it's a movement instruction and any player should at least try to move to central positions sometimes. it didn't happen once, in 442.

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of course the wrong footed players will be more inclined to cut in (and that was the case with my player) in real life and so should be in game. but it's a movement instruction and any player should at least try to move to central positions sometimes. it didn't happen once, in 442.

Well, you are more likely to have success with wrong footed players. That's from the makers of the tactics creator and not just my opinion.

I think it's only natural that footedness should have an effect on the influence of this instruction.

Why would you want non-'wrong' footed players to cut inside anyway?

And how many wide midfielders in a 4-4-2 do you see cutting in?

I would imagine it's an option best used in 4-3-3 and 4-2-3-1, where the wingers/attacking midfielders are operating in a band ahead of the midfield and in front of the attack, and therefore have the space and motivation to move inside with or without the ball to cause danger in the final third.

Regards,

C.

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You don't see many wide players.... I could find planty of such teams and players. Formations and positions in real life are not as defined as in FM. I can find you the 'right' sided players who regulary cut in if you want.

all I want to say is that if there's an feature in the game it should work at least half decently. we don't need to discuss real life stratiges, formations and roles to see if smth is working in the game or not.

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You don't see many wide players.... I could find planty of such teams and players.

I'm sorry, what? I don't understand what you are saying? :confused:

Formations and positions in real life are not as defined as in FM. I can find you the 'right' sided players who regulary cut in if you want.

No, that's okay, since I don't see what that would prove.

all I want to say is that if there's an feature in the game it should work at least half decently. we don't need to discuss real life stratiges, formations and roles to see if smth is working in the game or not.

Of course we do. FM is a simulation based on real life. It you aren't using the instruction properly then it isn't going to work properly.

Regards,

C.

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I really don't see any reason why would we discuss real life tactics here. the thread tittle is - Is Cut inside broken?

Are you trying to say that Cut in is a wrong instruction for a winger in 442? and that no team plays like that? Please teach me how to use this instruction properly then.

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I'm not saying anything like that. I'm just saying that perhaps his natural position on the pitch means that he is less likely to come inside. Whereas a winger in a 4-3-3 is may have the space and therefore more motivation to move inside with or without the ball to cause danger in the final third.

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Regarding the 'footedness' issue, it even says on the tactics creator that the inside forward will 'cut inside' and 'work best when the player's strongest foot is opposite to the flank he is playing on'.

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Regarding the 'footedness' issue, it even says on the tactics creator that the inside forward will 'cut inside' and 'work best when the player's strongest foot is opposite to the flank he is playing on'.

that's what I did. in 442 though.

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Well, I'd say cut inside works perfectly.

Just did a quick test with Liverpool. Babel on the left scored a brace, both coming in from the left, and got MotM while set as an inside forward. Babel is right footed playing on the left side. Kuyt was playing on the right but he was less effective (being right footed, this is not a surprise). He still looked to come inside but had 0 shots, unlike Babel who had 4 coming in on to his favoured foot.

I have screenshots if anyone is interested.

That was with 4-3-3. :)

C.

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that's what I did. in 442 though.

Just tried it also with 4-4-2.

You don't see it happen as much with 4-4-2 because of the natural starting position of the wide players and because of the lack of space they have in the centre until they make forward runs. But it still happens. Babel has just scored again in a 4-4-2 cutting in from the left for me.

I will post some screenshots shortly.

C.

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So, I tested 'cutting in' with 4-3-3 and 4-4-2 while playing with Liverpool on a test save I made this afternoon. I looked the tendency of the player to cut in and how it was affected by footedness. I also did a little test with 4-3-3 for the second half of one of the matches, using one winger on his wrong foot and the other winger on his right foot but both set to 'normal' wing play. Later, towards the end of the game, I substituted so that I had two 'wrong' footers playing 'normal' wing play.

Here are the results. (Note that I also have PKMs if anyone is interested).

4-3-3

First of all, the 4-3-3, with both AMR and AML set to 'Inside Forward', which uses the 'cut inside' setting as default. I played Babel (right footed) on the left and Kuyt (also right footed) on the right. Babel absolutely shone coming inside on to his right, while Kuyt had a somewhat less impressive game but still attempted to come inside on occasion.

Screenshot 1: Kuyt coming inside (following instructions) but going nowhere due to coming on to his weaker foot).

LiverpoolvWigan-4-1.png

Screenshot 2: Babel cut inside into the box and is now getting ready to hit it with his right.

LiverpoolvWigan-5-2.png

Screenshot 3: It's a goal, curled into the far corner.

LiverpoolvWigan-6-1.png

Screenshot 4: Babel again has worked inside and curls one in with his right foot. This was another goal for Babel; his second of the game.

LiverpoolvWigan-8.png

Babel was the man of the match and had 4 shots in total. Absolutely lethal cutting inside and getting in between his fullback and the centre-back.

His natural positioning was on the inside of his fullback.

Next up, some screenshots of 4-4-2.

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4-4-2

This time I played Babel (right footed) on the left and Benayoun (right footed) on the right. Both were set to 'winger' with 'cut inside' ticked.

Screenshot 1 - Babel cutting inside with the ball and about to hit one with his right foot.

WestHamvLiverpool-5.png

Screenshot 2 - Another goal for Babel curling in off his right foot.

WestHamvLiverpool-6.png

Screenshot 3 - Look what the commentary said.

WestHamvLiverpool-9.png

Screenshot 4 - Benayoun disobeys me slightly. He wants to go on to his favoured foot and take the ball wide.

WestHamvLiverpool-7.png

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Every year there is a discussion about some facet of cutting inside. I think it is pretty clear in this version how to instruct it, and half of the posts here are arguing about the smae thing!

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Screenshot 5 - This time Benayoun is cutting in, driving at the heart of defence. Typically, it comes to nothing, as he is on his weaker foot.

WestHamvLiverpool-8.png

So this was working well with 4-4-2 also.

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4-3-3 - with no 'cutting in' instruction

This time I used a 4-3-3 and played Babel on the right and Benayoun on the left. I later subbed Babel for Riera so that I had two 'wrong footed' players to play with.

Both players were set to 'normal' wing play and they were set to 'swap position' so that sometimes they would be playing on their preferred flank and others times they wouldn't. This is my favourite thing to do with wingers.

Screenshot 1 - Typical wing play from Benayoun going to the by-line and crossing with his favoured foot.

WestHamvLiverpool-11.png

Screenshot 2 - However, Babel is still coming inside on to his favoured foot.

WestHamvLiverpool-12.png

Screenshot 3 - Benayoun now swaps sides with Babel so he is on the 'wrong' flank and he starts off a move from a fairly central position, having come inside.

WestHamvLiverpool-13.png

Screenshot 4 - Plessis is going to receive the ball and send Riera on his way. Riera has swapped with Benayoun and is left footed, so I expect him to come inside and drive at the heart of defence.

WestHamvLiverpool-14.png

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So that's proof that cutting in definitely isn't 'broken'. :D

It definitely works best with AMR and AML though.

And also, it can be really dangerous with the right kind of player playing on the opposite flank to his preferred foot.

Finally, using the 'normal' wing play option but asking the two wingers to swap positions can be really effective because sometimes they hug the line and play like a true winger, while other times they cut inside and play more into the middle. This can create very dangerous attacking variation and if you have a forward who is good in the air as well as on the ground, plus two talented wide players who can run at their man, cross the ball or curl one in from range, then you're all set for a very successful season. :D

Hope that has been interesting.

Regards,

C.

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Very good read

Were those screenshots just with the cut in option on Inside Forward with the 4-3-3

What about roaming have you tried that ?

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First set of screenshots with 4-3-3 was inside forwards.

Second set of screenshots with 4-4-2 was wingers but 'cut inside' option checked.

I also did a the test at the end with 4-3-3 for the second half of one of the matches, using one winger on his wrong foot and the other winger on his right foot but both set to 'normal' wing play. Later, towards the end of the game, I substituted so that I had two 'wrong' footers playing 'normal' wing play.

Regards,

C.

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slightly thieving the topic.... I play the 433/451 option an use the wingers to cut inside (took a while to find out what iv just read!) but having problems getting the f/b's to overlap when winger is in his 'cutting in' phase. any suggestions?

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slightly thieving the topic.... I play the 433/451 option an use the wingers to cut inside (took a while to find out what iv just read!) but having problems getting the f/b's to overlap when winger is in his 'cutting in' phase. any suggestions?

Change Fullback to Wingback so that they get forward more often. :thup:

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I noticed the same thing. Playing as Man Utd Nani will cut in often while Valencia will do it less, no matter what. I wonder if you manually input inside forward instructions to a ML will he do the same thing?

I think more important for me is how players who are almost two footed will play. If they really focus on their favoured foot so much, it wouldn't be useful to buy two footed players at all, contrary to what they say.

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I noticed the same thing. Playing as Man Utd Nani will cut in often while Valencia will do it less, no matter what. I wonder if you manually input inside forward instructions to a ML will he do the same thing?

I think more important for me is how players who are almost two footed will play. If they really focus on their favoured foot so much, it wouldn't be useful to buy two footed players at all, contrary to what they say.

That might be down to their PMs. Nani has 'cuts inside'. Just checked.

Two footed players will have an advantage as they can vary their play and hug the line or cut inside.

Regards,

C.

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Incidentally, Benayoun is strong on both feet, which may be why he actually 'disobeyed' my instruction to cut inside in one of the screenshots above and tended to vary his play more. Meanwhile, Babel is weak on his left foot, which may be why he really shone while cutting inside.

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nice work crouchie!

however what you have proved is that players will cut in with the ball, depending on their stronger foot and side they play. players would do the same thing if there's wasn't Wide play instruction, like on FM09. also what you have proved is that players move into the box (and thus cut in in some way) when the ball is near opponents' area (in most of your screanies the ball is near opp area). but there's not a single screanshot with players moving inside-cuting in without the ball (how they position them selfes). for example, moving centrally when the ball is in their half. or I can't see it.

I played one match in 433 formation (right footed advanced forward on the left and right footed winger) and I admit there might be some difference in their movement (maybe becouse winger was to Hug the line?). but defenetly nothing that would impress me, far from what I expect from the best football simulation game. but that's one match, I can't make any conclussions based on 1 match for sure. what I'm almost completly sure is that wingers don't cut in in 442.

maybe we just have different expectations from what cut in should look like?

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I am playing as Arsenal and have got Arshavin and Walcott on the wings

Arshavin is set to cut in and Walcott is set to normal

For me Arshavin is cutting in a lot even off the ball and when he gets it as well . But this could be because I used the roaming option

It does work in a way !

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